Wal-Mart vs. Civil War site: battle heads to court

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

By STEVE SZKOTAK

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - Nearly 150 years after Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant fought in northern Virginia, a conflict over the battlefield is taking shape in a courtroom.

The dispute involves whether a Walmart should be built near the Civil War site, and the case pits preservationists and some residents of a rural northern Virginia town against the world's largest retailer and local officials who approved the Walmart Supercenter.

Both sides are scheduled to make arguments before a judge Tuesday.

The proposed Walmart is located near the site of the Battle of the Wilderness, which is viewed by historians as a critical turning point in the war. An estimated 185,000 Union and Confederate troops fought over three days in 1864, and 30,000 were killed, injured or went missing. The war ended 11 months later.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20110123/D9KU6S4O0.html

[jpak]

1. Battlefield Smattlefield - Unbeatable Chinamart Prices rule

US history drools

fiddle dee dee

yup

[Lucian]

2. "There is no indication that any significant historical event occurred on this land"

The woman who said that is an idiot.

It's pretty clear the people in the town don't want the Walmart in the area. Yet Walmart will probably be allowed to build.

I hate Walmart (and I work there).

[James48]

3. Map

May 6, 1864-

[rasputin1952]

4. The Battle of the Wilderness saw some of the most horrific situations

of the Civil War. Wounded were caught in brush that could not be traversed and as the battle raged the underbrush caught fire literally roasting men as they lay there helpless. The screams and pleas for help haunted the survivors for the rest of their lives.

Both sides lost horrific numbers in casualties as the CW became a war of attrition. This is hallowed ground, and for the love of a more dollars into their coffers, Wal-Mart shows itself as the heartless company they are; this store is not "necessary", the area is served well by many businesses, none that encroach upon the battlefield. For a company that continually espouses "American Ideals", the only "ideal" they have is to make more money and care not about our history, or the sacrifices made by so many to ensure this nation of ours would survive as a unified entity.

Wal-Mart officers have no shame, no sense of history...they worship the dollar and would put up a "Super Center" in the center of Gettysburg battlefield if they thought they could get away with it. I despise the company officers and hope they lose this battle in the court.

[Kievan Rus]

27. Heck, Wal Mart would put a store up at Ground Zero if they could get away with it

You're absolutely right...they only care about the Almighty Dollar, the god of Corporatist America.

[sofa king]

5. A map for those interested.

http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/wilderness/maps/wildernessmay5map.html

I'd link the map here but it will throw off everyone's view of the thread. Look to the map links on the right.

The selection of the Wal Mart itself is as close as one can get to non-crucial territory in that area. But even so, it's sitting square in the middle of not one but several important battlefields. Jackson's last flanking movement and the site of his wounding is only a short distance to the East on land that Civil war preservationists have been trying to acquire for years. The non-battle battle of Mine Run went down a couple miles to the West.

Allowing the Wal-Mart to go in effectively ends any chance that the desired Chancellorsville lands on Wal-Mart's side of the road will be put into trust. They will instead be kicked into development overdrive. But it also opens the door to further development across the turnpike, along a historically significant line that I think is significant.

Historical geography only has as much meaning as we ascribe to it. Here's some meaning: at the Battle of the Wilderness alone, 23,000 Americans were killed and wounded fighting over that territory (not to mention another 5,000 captured and condemned to risk death in horrible prison camps). Many of them died horrifying deaths attempting to crawl through grasping brambles to escape the massive brush fires, after being wounded by instruments of war that would be considered cruel today. Skeletons were found in the Wilderness for years after the battle (and for that matter, soldiers fought over and around the skeletons of soldiers who had died the previous year at Chancellorsville, only a mile down the road).

More Americans died at the Wilderness than in the entire War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Spanish American War, or either one of the awful wars we're fighting today. More Americans died there than at Yorktown, Saratoga, Belleau Wood, Pearl Harbor, or D-Day. Every one of them who died died within two miles of where that Wal Mart wants to be.

Does that really need to happen? What meaning are we ascribing to that blood-soaked ground if we allow it to happen?

[jpak]

6. There should be a thorough archaeological assessment of that site - if one CW artifact is discovered

Chinamart should get lost.

yup

[naaman fletcher]

13. Why

because you don't like walmart or because you actually think that every single place that a soldier ever took a dump should be off limits to development?

[snooper2]

23. Are you going to have them start digging under 7-11 first?

or the Wachovia Bank sitting there?

[naaman fletcher]

14. It's a good thing for Europe that they don't have this policy

Or the whole continent would be off-limits for development.

The idea of sacred ground is largely a silly religious affair.

[CanonRay]

19. OK, call it historic ground

you still should not build a Wal-Mart, or anything else for that matter, on this site. It's just wrong and cannot be justified.

[snooper2]

24. so you don't like the business that is already built there?

[sofa king]

26. As a matter of fact, no.

The place is called "The Wilderness" because it is the perfect example of an 18th Century environmental disaster. It used to be a branch of the King's Forest, a forest comprised of trees so tall they eclipsed the undergrowth. The trees were so large and far apart, and their foliage so dense that it was said the King's four-wide chariot could run at a full gallop in any direction without fear of overturning.

Then a mill was set up and in less than a hundred years it chewed through practically every tree between Fredericksburg and the Blue Ridge. Left to itself, it might take a thousand years to recover its former glory, because even today most of the area is briar-choked scrub that strangles all trees within a decade or two (except on the preserved battlefield land, of course, which with constant maintenance has grown into a healthy young forest). The Wilderness became a virtually impassable barrier that sat squarely across the direct invasion route to Richmond, which is why armies constantly bogged down there and had to fight one another.

The locals there have opposed development of the area for 140 years, but their opinion obviously counts for nothing.

I will say this, though. Everyone who lives there in their cookie-cutter developments built on the graves of anonymous Americans has to commute at least a dozen hours a week to get to their real jobs, the closest of which is thirty miles away. If that Wal Mart goes in, it will kill all those other local businesses as it does everywhere else, including that damned 7-11 on the corner. In thirty years, when Virginians are back to the horse and carriage, the scrub will come back to consume those homes, because a Wal Mart job won't pay the mortgage.

And then nothing will be left except a big, black parking lot in the middle of Hell. That will be our monument to stupidity in a place that has seen more of that sort of thing than just about anywhere else.

[rasputin1952]

28. Not so...

most of the ground fought over is tilled by farmers and in many places the trenches from WWI are left to return to their natural state over time, some are preserved out of historic value. Many acres have been set aside as military cemeteries, and one town in France was left un-rebuilt to ensure that the massacre there would never be forgotten.

Several Concentration/Death camps still stand as memorials to the slain. The thought of building a Wal-Mart next to Treblinka would be as appalling as building one next to the Wilderness Battlefield.

Antietam, The Cowpens, the tunnels on Iwo Jima and Okinawa are left as memorials. There is a building in Hiroshima left as it was after the atomic bombing of the city as a memorial.

Men and women fought and died for ideals on these battlefields, their sacrifice protected what we have today. In France, a trench was found only because a few bayonets were sticking out of the ground. A Dutch family walking the area saw the bayonets and notified the authorities. Excavation showed 27 men who died instantaneously when a shell exploded behind them and they were crushed to death. No one knew they buried there since 1917. These men were fighting for their country, and suddenly, simply vanished. They were left where they were, the decision made was that they died together as a unit of comrades, and as comrades they should rest. The government of France made it a National Shrine. The Wilderness is a shrine as well, to those who died and were horrifically wounded, we, as a people, should not allow the denigration of what those men did. It was a part of what kept this nation together, a nation Of the People, By the People and For the People...not for Wal-Mart.

[naaman fletcher]

30. I'm ok with some memorials

Gettysburg is fine, Shiloh is fine, there is plenty of wilderness area preserved, but, for example, nobody is trying to preserve the entire Arnham or Bulge battlefields in europe. It is not that they don't care, it's just not practical. Same here. The Wilderness was fought over a large area in an economically prosperous area. Much has been preserved. It's time to move on and stop worshipping dirt over something that happened a long time ago when plenty of dirt is already set aside for that purpose.

[LuvNewcastle]

7. Wal-Mart needs to find ways to help

Americans learn about their history. I'm thinking that they could have re-enactments in the parking lot with speeches about America's struggle to maintain the lowest prices. Directly related to that issue, of course, is the issue of slavery and how how happy the slaves were on the plantations. They could compare the slaves to Wal-Mart employees; after all, have you ever seen an unhappy greeter? Finally, what good is a history lesson without some Chinese gewgaws to help people commemorate their visit? Every visitor could have his own Civil War spurs or minie balls or even clothing and firearms! Nobody could do this like Wal-Mart can.

[Pavlovs_Dog]

8. How many stores in one town does Walmart need?

If you look at the Walmart store locator, there's already 4 Walmarts in Fredericksburg. There's a Walmart about 5 miles away from the proposed site. I suppose their business plan involves building one on every block so that folks won't even have to burden themselves with making the painful 8 minute drive to get their Walmart fix, but that's another story..
A couple years ago I had regular business trips to the Dulles, VA area. With every trip, I saw continuous development, and a piece of untouched rolling hills and forest converted into first a flat "sandbox", then a new strip mall or gated community. It's sad that we're losing our historical battlefields, but even sadder that the rest of the beautiful unprotected land is disappearing and stands no chance against the interests of the mighty $. People are in awe of countrysides in Europe but the land in America was once just as beautiful, sadly it just got replaced by suburbia and endless development. The protected national and state parks are still only isolated spots in the endless suburbia, especially in the northeast. We lost a lot of our cities (to crime, poverty, etc..) now we're losing everything around them by moving further and further away from them, and ravishing everything along the way.

[wilt the stilt]

9. Most southerners love free market capitalism

so bow down to your real lord. The almighty dollar. You should be happy to greet wal mart with open arms.

[pam4water]

10. The smart money is on walmart! Cause they sucked up all the dumb money already.

[AsahinaKimi]

11. I could imagine

The ghosts of civil war dead roaming about a Walmart, feeling somewhat disoriented. Would love to see stuff flying off the shelves...kinda like in that movie Poltergeist. Okay, so I have a vivid imagination.. ;)


"They're Here!!!!

[corpseratemedia]

17. That Would Make a Great Movie!!

LOL! :o)

[Recursion]

12. Northern Virginia sprawl vs. Civil War sprawl

The sprawl has to stop. On the other hand, if you throw a rock between the Rappahannock and the Potomac you hit a site with important Civil War history, and we really can't save all of them.

[jberryhill]

15. It's not like they want to build a mosque...

[liberal N proud]

16. More like a shrine to the corporate take over of America

[jberryhill]

18. "The Victory Wal-Mart"

[liberal N proud]

20. Reenactments in the parking lot

[snooper2]

21. What they are not telling you or showing you on that map

Is right smack in the middle of the (red) planned Walmart, is a-

7-11
McDonalds
E & M Auto Sales
Select Physical Therapy
Wachovia Bank
and Lin's Garden


Go to Google Maps and put in ( Germanna Hwy & Constitution Hwy )

[Dappleganger]

22. WTF is with Walmart and building on battlefields (Ferry Farm as well)??

I have driven through that area I don't know how many times over the years, going to visit my sister in Fredericksburg from where we lived in the Shenandoah Valley. What a greedy, disgusting bunch of copoRATS.

[lynne]

25. The blame should be on who deserves it - the County Board of Supervisors -

who know the history of the area and approved this project. Walmart couldn't make a move until it was approved at the county level. I don't expect Walmart - or any corporation/business - to know the entire history of an area they may wish to build in. BUT I do expect the county government to know the history and to protect the region.

Walmart may bring needed jobs to the region but there's lots of land there - it doesn't need to be built at the edge of the battlefield.

[ingac70]

29. Wal mart built ON a Native American burial site in Nashville TN....

not near, but on.... and the council was all for it.

[JNelson6563]

31. No shame.