STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday, February 3, 2011

[Pale Blue Dot]

Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday, February 3, 2011

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON February 2, 2011

Dow 12,041.97 +1.81 (+0.02%)
Nasdaq 2,749.56 -1.63 (-0.06%)
S&P 500 1,304.03 -3.56 (-0.27%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.48 +0.00
30-Year Bond 4.63 +0.01

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Market Conditions During Trading Hours

Euro, Yen, Loonie, Silver and Gold

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Bush Administration Officials Convicted = 2
Names: David Safavian, James Fondren
Dishonorable Mention: former House majority leader, Tom DeLay

Bush Administration Officials Charged = 1
Name(s): Richard Lopez Razo

Financial Sector Officials Convicted since 1/20/09 = 11

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This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.

Read more: du

[Pale Blue Dot]

1. Lots of reports today

Feb 03 08:30 Productivity-Prel Q4 2.0% 2.2% 2.3%
Feb 03 08:30 Unit Labor Costs Q4 0.0% 0.1% -0.1%
Feb 03 08:30 Initial Claims 01/29 410K 425K 454K
Feb 03 08:30 Continuing Claims 01/22 3900K 3955K 3991K
Feb 03 10:00 Factory Orders Dec -0.5% -0.6% 0.7%
Feb 03 10:00 ISM Services Jan 57.5 57.0 57.1

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm

[Po_d Mainiac]

12. And if the numbers fall short, there's always the weather to blame. n/t

[Pale Blue Dot]

23. US nonfarm productivity up 2.6 pct in fourth quarter

eb 3 (Reuters) - U.S. nonfarm productivity grew faster than expected in the fourth quarter as employers extracted more output from workers and unit labor costs fell, a government report showed on Thursday.

Productivity increased at an annual rate of 2.6 percent, the Labor Department said, after rising at an upwardly revised 2.4 percent growth pace.

Analysts surveyed by Reuters had forecast productivity, a measure of hourly output per worker that is viewed as an indicator of the economy's vitality or lack of it, rising at a 2 percent rate in the fourth quarter from a previously reported 2.3 percent pace.

For the whole of 2010, productivity grew 3.6 percent - the fastest pace since 2002 -- after expanding 3.5 percent in 2009.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/03/usa-economy-productivity-idUSN0329123020110203

[Pale Blue Dot]

24. Labor costs fell -0.2%

Which is already being touted in the media as more proof that inflation is under control. :eyes:

[Pale Blue Dot]

25. First-time unemployment claims fall

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The number of Americans filing for first-time unemployment benefits eased more than expected last week, setting the stage for the government's closely-watched jobs report due Friday.

There were 415,000 initial jobless claims filed in the week ended Jan. 29, the Labor Department said Thursday. That was down 42,000 from the week before, and better than the 425,000 claims economists surveyed by Briefing.com had expected.

Continuing claims -- which include people filing for the second week of benefits or more -- fell to 3,925,000 in the week ended Jan. 22, a decline of 84,000 from the week before.

While the latest report shows an improvement, jobless claim figures have been jumping around recently, so economists haven't been reading too much into the weekly figures, said Robert Dye, a senior economist at PNC Financial Services.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/03/news/economy/initial_claims/

Hmm... no mention of snow storms creating a backlog this week... that will have to wait for next week, when the numbers are higher than expected.

[Pale Blue Dot]

43. U.S. factory orders rise 0.2 pct in Dec

Feb 3 (Reuters) - New orders received by U.S. factories edged up in December and shipments of finished products were stronger, signaling a continuing pickup in activity for the nation's manufacturing sector.

The Commerce Department said on Thursday that total factory orders rose 0.2 percent to a seasonally adjusted $426.8 billion -- contrary to forecasts for a 0.5 percent decline made by Wall Street economists surveyed by Reuters and following an upwardly revised 1.3 percent boost in November orders.

Excluding the volatile transportation category, December orders increased by 1.7 percent after a 3.3 percent jump in November. It was a fifth successive monthly pickup in orders excluding transportation goods.

Healthier manufacturing activity has helped lead recovery from the recession triggered by the 2007-2009 financial crisis and shows signs that it will continue to do so. Machinery orders were up 10.6 percent in December, helping offset a 12.7 percent decline in orders for transportation goods.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/03/usa-economy-factory-idUSN0211416220110203

[Pale Blue Dot]

44. ISM Services Beats Expectations

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Economic activity in the services sector rose more than expected in January, the Institute For Supply Management said Thursday.

The Non-Manufacturing Index rose to 59.4% from 57.1% registered in December. Economists were expecting the index to stay unchanged. A reading above 50 indicates expansion.

The business activity index registered at 64.6% up by 1.7 percentage points. New orders rose 3.5 percentage points to 64.9%. The employment index surged 1.9 percentage points to 54.5%. The services sector drives the jobs market in the U.S.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10995533/1/ism-services-beats-expectations.html

[Pale Blue Dot]

2. Oil rises above $91 amid mixed US supply data

SINGAPORE – Oil prices rose above $91 a barrel Thursday in Asia amid mixed U.S. crude and gasoline supply figures and violent street clashes in Egypt.

Benchmark crude for March delivery was up 48 cents at $91.34 a barrel at late afternoon Singapore time in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract settled 9 cents higher at $90.86 on Wednesday.

In London, Brent crude gained 88 cents to $103.22 a barrel on the ICE Futures exchange.

U.S. energy supply data gave mixed signals about the strength of consumer demand. The Energy Department's Energy Information Administration said Wednesday that crude supplies rose less than expected last week but that gasoline inventories jumped more than analyst forecasts to the highest level since March 1993.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices

[Pale Blue Dot]

3. Trichet Fights to Curb Pay Pressures as Inflation Accelerates

Three weeks after Jean-Claude Trichet jolted financial markets with a threat to raise interest rates, the European Central Bank President has even more reason to talk tough on inflation.

The euro-area rate rose to 2.4 percent in January, the highest in more than two years, workers are demanding bigger pay increases in Germany, where import-price inflation is running at the fastest pace in 29 years, and political tensions in Egypt are stoking oil prices. The risk for Trichet is that his inflation-fighting rhetoric convinces investors the ECB will raise borrowing costs before Europe overcomes its debt crisis.

“It is a balancing act,” said Jens Sondergaard, senior European economist at Nomura International Plc in London. “He’s trying to speak to the unions, but not spook the markets. There’s a careful fine-tuning of expectations going on.”

The euro surged and bonds fell after Trichet on Jan. 13 pledged to do what’s necessary to keep a rein on inflation, signaling a shift in focus for the ECB. While several policy makers subsequently tried to damp expectations for higher rates, Executive Board member Lorenzo Bini Smaghi reignited the debate last week with a warning that imported inflation can no longer be ignored.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-03/trichet-fights-to-curb-pay-pressures-as-euro-region-s-inflation-quickens.html

[Pale Blue Dot]

4. Egypt Not Iran 1979 as Mideast Financial Stability Buoys Markets

Egypt’s turmoil is having limited impact on global financial markets, where investors see few parallels with Iran’s 1979 revolution or the contagion that followed Thailand’s meltdown 13 years ago.

World equity-market capitalization climbed to $53.6 trillion this week, the highest level since June 2008, even as protests against Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak’s 30-year rule intensified and forced the nation’s bourse and banks to close for a fifth day. Dubai’s equity index rose the most in nine months yesterday and emerging-market bonds rallied, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

While the uprising in Iran three decades ago sparked a 140 percent surge in oil and Thailand’s devaluation led to a global equity selloff, Egypt has about 0.3 percent of the world’s crude reserves and its foreign-currency holdings exceed overseas debt by $29 billion. Traxis Partners LP’s Barton Biggs says it’s a mistake to sell shares because of Egypt’s crisis, while Pacific Investment Management Co.’s Mohamed El-Erian sees signs of a “reconciliation” in the most-populous Arab country.

“The one thing to avoid is to exaggerate the probability for chaos,” El-Erian, the son of an Egypt diplomat and chief executive officer at Pimco, which oversees about $1.2 trillion worldwide, said in a Feb. 1 interview on “Bloomberg Surveillance” with Tom Keene. “There’s a lot of talk of ‘what if Egypt becomes Iran?’ I don’t think that’s the case.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-02/egypt-not-iran-1979-as-mideast-financial-stability-buoys-markets-worldwide.html

[Demeter]

5. Just Keep Telling Yourselves That, You Diplomatic Imbeciles.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...it's a state of mind about Egypt.

[4dsc]

47. Your wrong to think this situation is like Iran

Sorry Det but this situation isn't remotely comparable to what occurred in Iran in 1979.

[Demeter]

50. Not Yet

US backed dictator, repressive policies, religious ferment, democratic stirrings,

throw in the CIA and the BFEE and Big Oil, and the parallel is complete!

[Pale Blue Dot]

6. Wall Street Co-Opting Nominally Liberal Think Tanks; Banks Lobbying to Become New GSEs

Barney Frank’s great moral passion is low-income housing, and that’s not an accident. The traditional alliance in financial politics since the 1950s was between liberal low-income housing advocates and Wall Street financiers. Since the 1970s, Democrats tried to balance the two sets of interests by creating consumer protections but allowing the capital markets to manage themselves. This dynamic has created a serious political problem in the last four years, because complete capitulation to the banks in the capital markets has pillaged the low-income and middle-income communities the Democrats thought they were standing up for.

It’s not that the people who made this Faustian bargain are bad so much as they are fundamentally irresponsible and childish. The breakdown of law and order in the capital markets arena has created predatory lending, and ultimately has subverted any attempt to implement new laws. Dodd-Frank not just a weak response to the crisis, but actually downright pathetic thanks to the lack of prosecution for anyone who breaks the rules set forth in the bill.

And so, we return to the reform of the GSEs. The Republican mainstream wants to simply hand over government money to banks in the form of a government guarantee. No surprise there. Republicans see the world the way the banks do. Very conservative Republicans, however, aren’t on board. On the Democratic side, the dynamic works through the low-income housing advocates.

A think tank that calls itself liberal, the Center for American Progress, just presented a plan to reform Fannie/Freddie and the housing finance system. It would create an FDIC-like insurance fund for the securitization market, and create entirely private Fannie/Freddie like entities that can offer insurance wrappers on mortgage-backed securities, only these entities will carry explicit government guarantees. These entities can also be controlled by banks. There is a mechanism to funnel money to low-income housing, and ostensibly strict regulation of capital. These people believe that without the government guaranteeing mortgages, the American housing finance system will return to a pre-1930s model of a highly unstable predatory market.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/02/wall-street-co-opting-nominally-liberal-think-tanks-banks-lobbying-to-become-new-gses.html

[Pale Blue Dot]

10. Here's a link to the CFAP's report that's referenced in the article above

From the overview:

The next step is to move away from our current nationalized mortgage finance system toward a system that once again relies on private-sector capital, through both depository institutions and the secondary mortgage market, to provide the bulk of mortgage finance for American homeowners and owners of rental property. This new mortgage finance system should be guided by five overarching principles:

Liquidity: Provide participants in the capital markets with the confidence to deliver a reliable supply of capital to ensure access to mortgage credit, every day and in every community, through large and small lenders alike

Stability: Rein in excessive risk taking and promote reasonable products backed by sufficient capital to protect our economy from destructive boom-bust cycles such as the one we are now struggling to overcome, and the ones that used to plague our economy before the reforms of the 1930s

Transparency and standardization: Require underwriting, documentation, and analytical standards that are clear and consistent across the board so consumers, investors, and regulators can accurately assess and price risk, and regulators can hold institutions accountable for maintaining an appropriate level of capital

Affordability: Ensure access to reasonably priced financing for both homeownership and rental housing

Consumer protection: Ensure that the system supports the long-term best interest of all borrowers and consumers and protects against predatory practices

Link to the full report: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/01/pdf/responsiblemarketforhousingfinance.pdf

[bread_and_roses]

13. Do I understand correctly that "Liberals" are again playing their assigned role in the Oligarchy?

That they are prepared to accept injustice for all in return for some scraps for the few? (I don't follow the language above, but that's what I gather from your subject line and what little I understand of the post.)

You know, when I worked in "human services" I more than once saw someone driven to near-suicidal despair because some technicality, or say a few dollars, kept them from getting a desperately needed "service." Say food stamps. Or Medicaid. Or subsidized housing.

Every "means-tested" program, every "charitable" endeavor, does nothing - imho - but displace solidarity with an ugly scrabble to "get some" - not ugly because the needs are illegitimate, but ugly because help for one means no help for someone else. Ever seen a line at a "free food" truck that was too long for the supply of free food? What the hell are the people at the end of the line supposed to do? They didn't come out and stand in the cold for fun.

Such compromise does nothing but fuel what is really ugly - the vicious attacks on "welfare" from low-income working people, the attacks on people of color because of some perceived "advantage" in "getting something" not available to all...

I have come to hate the very word "Liberal."

[xchrom]

15. agreed -- and liberal has come to be a poorly understood word. nt

[AnneD]

18. We need to co opt the term...

Progressive. Because that is on thing some of these fundies are NOT. And who isn't for progress.

[Hugin]

26. I've been toying with the term, "Post-Capitalist".

It doesn't carry any baggage at this point.

[Fuddnik]

16. Read "Death of the Liberal Class" by Chris Hedges

You'll hate it even more.

It's like mainstream religions. They provide cover for the crazier, more whacked out fundies.

See today's Family sponsored National Prayer Breakfast. Putting a smiley face on the Storm Troopers.

[Tansy_Gold]

19. That's why I call myself a socialist.

Lower case, and I say it with pride.

Some people are so horrified that they demand an explanation, which of course from me becomes a college lecture on what socialism IS vs. what they've been led to believe it is. I can't say I've converted all of them, but at least a few have had their eyes open. (Okay, some have had their eyes glazed, too.)

But it's really more of an ideology/ideal than a political affiliation. There are a lot of people who can't wrap their heads around that concept.




TG, TT

[Tansy_Gold]

55. Wallace Shawn, aka Vizzini, "Why I Call Myself a Socialist"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wallace-shawn/why-i-call-myself-a-socia_b_818061.html


<snip>

If we look at reality for more than an instant, if we look at the human beings passing us on the street, it’s not bearable. It’s not bearable to watch while the talents and the abilities of infants and children are crushed and destroyed. These happen to be things that I just can’t think about. And most of the time, the factory workers and domestic workers and cashiers and truck drivers can’t think about them either. Their performances as these characters are consistent and convincing, because they actually believe about themselves just what I believe about them -- that what they are now is all that they could ever have been, they could never have been anything other than what they are. Of course, that’s what we all have to believe, so that we can bear our lives and live in peace together. But it’s the peace of death.

Actors understand the infinite vastness hiding inside each human being, the characters not played, the characteristics not revealed. Schoolteachers can see every day that, given the chance, the sullen pupil in the back row can sing, dance, juggle, do mathematics, paint, and think. If the play we’re watching is an illusion, if the baby who now wears the costume of the hustler in fact had the capacity to become a biologist or a doctor, a circus performer or a poet or a scholar of ancient Greek, then the division of labor, as now practiced, is inherently immoral, and we must somehow learn a different way to share out all the work that needs to be done. The costumes are wrong. They have to be discarded. We have to start out naked again and go from there.

<end snip>


I would add, as a novelist, that I think writers also understand this sense of role-playing. Or at least the good writers do.



TG, who may or may not be a good writer but she tries

[bread_and_roses]

20. i have - yes, it is excellent

It gave concrete language to a sort of inchoate feeling I've had for a long time. It bedeviled me all the long years I worked in "human services" and now as I work in our timid, near-useless Labor "movement." It was one of the roots of my detestation of "charity." I'm grateful to Hedges for so clearly laying it out.

[Demeter]

7. How Servicer Junk Fees Push Borrowers into Foreclosure

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/02/how-servicer-junk-fees-push-borrowers-into-foreclosure.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capitalism%29

A story at Huffington Post by Shahien Narisipour and Arthur Delaney, about how a couple lost their home as a result of the Administration’s HAMP program, actually serves to illustrate a broader issue, namely, how servicers’ dubious fees can put mortgage borrowers hopelessly under water...It is critical to understand that it is not uncommon for borrowers to lose their homes thanks to servicer errors and abuses. And this bad practice has policy implications. Whenever we discuss “fix the housing mess” solutions that involve loss sharing, like giving viable borrowers a deep principal mod, some readers react that “deadbeat borrowers” are getting a free ride, and often will contend that they were irresponsible and need to take their medicine.

This black/white picture is simplistic and misleading. Yes, there were people who borrowed too much in the bubble. Guess what? Those people tended to have been subprime borrowers and the resets on teaser loans had pretty much concluded by the end of 2008. As a result, they would have been relatively early to hit the wall. Many have already lost their house.

Another cohort could have made the payments if they hadn’t lost their job or suffered a reduction in hours. And remember how soft this job market it is, so even people who had savings that would have been enough to carry themselves through a typical period of job search are coming up short. These individuals are collateral damage of the global financial crisis, but they too often are depicted as having been reckless rather than unlucky

But the third cohort is most often overlooked and most troubling, which is victims of servicer abuses. This problem is very much underdiagnosed because the servicer is judge, jury, and executioner as far as its charges are concerned. Borrowers find it a pitched battle to get the detailed payment records from servicers, even with a lawyer’s help. Even then, the statements are usually incomprehensible. Attorneys have told me they typically have to hire a forensic accountant both to get to the bottom of the mess and to serve as an expert witness...Given how expensive it is to fight this sort of case on the real issue, the borrower’s belief that the servicer has overcharged him, many of these cases are instead fought on the simpler grounds of standing. That feeds the perception that borrowers are taking advantage of bank errors, rather than having legitimate grounds for opposing a foreclosure...

[Demeter]

8. Reference Article: Michigan Family Says Obama Foreclosure-Prevention Program Cost Them Their Home

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/01/michigan-family-says-obam_n_816684.html

[Demeter]

9. Florida Bar Says Attorneys Must Report Foreclosure Fraud to Judges

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/02/florida-bar-says-attorneys-must-report-foreclosure-fraud-to-judges.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capitalism%29

Florida, which has been Ground Zero of the foreclosure crisis as well as a hotbed of judicial abuses, ranging from the biggest and most active foreclosure mills to kangaroo courts known as “rocket dockets”, has taken a surprising step in the right direction. The state bar association has told foreclosure lawyers in no uncertain terms that they have a duty to report fraud to the court, and that supersedes their responsibilities to clients. And even more surprising, the duty is retroactive: lawyers are supposed to inform judges even if the home has already been sold!

[Demeter]

11. Fiting Punishment for Fraud?

His relentless pursuit of wealth was his undoing. Crassus attacked Parthia, a rich prize, and underestimated the prowess of its army. The accounts of his death vary, but he was preparing to meet with the Parthian king when he was killed in a skirmish. One account says that the king, upon receiving his corpse, poured molten gold into his mouth to punish him for his thirst for wealth.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/02/croesus-watch-banker-pay-levitates-to-new-highs.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capitalism%29

Although, it might have greater effect if done while the convict was still alive...

Yes, I'm still in a foul mood, thank you for asking.

And to think, a year ago today I was admiring the snowdrops in their puddle of melting snow....

[Tansy_Gold]

17. For the rich, there is no greater punishment than poverty

It is not only physical punishment, as they have to do without all their luxuries, but it is psychological punishment. And it may even be a learning experience.


I don't believe in cruel punishment -- I believe everyone should be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. This does not mean I believe criminals/wrong-doers should be forgiven and put back out into society with no curbs on their behavior. Restitution and rehabilitation have pretty much vanished from our "justice" system and been replaced by REVENGE, REVENGE, REVENGE. I personally don't think that helps society function any better.



Tansy Gold, sniffling and sneezing and coughing in the cold and windy pre-dawn shadows of Superstition Mountain

[Fuddnik]

21. We wondered where you were.

Your name popped up yesterday in a discussion about methane eruptions.

Stay warm and get well.

[Tansy_Gold]

28. Methane eruptions and Tansy Gold???

Actually I took a few days off (sort of) from the day job to catch up on other urgent. . . .stuff.

Drove down to Tucson yesterday with some friends to stroll through a couple of the big outdoor rock/gem/mineral shows. Bright sunshine, but mid-30s temps and howling wind made the day unsuitable for outdoor browsing, so we didn't stay long. May go back next week, but I'm not sure.

And now it's back to the daily grind.


Tansy Gold, still shakin' her head over the methane connection. . . . . . huh?

[AnneD]

22. Morning Marketeers.....

:donut: and lurkers. This is an alert. The following graphic description might not go well with your corn flakes.

This is why I say....until these hucksters are prosecuted and their ill gotten assets are seized we will never be safe.

Have any of you ever seen wolves or other pack animals attack prey. They don't all pounce on you at once. A brave one will lunge at you. Yes he will get smacked back at first. They will keep at it until they get a piece. And they they get bolder and braver until the victim is dead and the carcass is left for the scavengers.

You have to be tough and prove to them that it would be more work to kill you than it would be worth. If you kill or wound enough of them, they will think twice as they are stepping over their buddies carcass to come after you.

If America was a buffalo, I would say she was down with some severe flesh wounds and a good bit of blood loss. She still might make it but it is looking grimmer.

The wolves are circling, teeth exposed, yellow eye glinting. They are eying for further weakness. Other buffaloes are fighting back, and some with success. But the packs attention is on the big buffalo. The wolf pack knows if they can take down this one, the rest of the heard will be easy pickins.

Just a thought about something I saw once. Mother Nature is a harsh teacher but you either learn the lesson or become one.

Happy hunting and watch out for the bears.

[Ghost Dog]

51. Egypt's Mubarak Likely to Retain Vast Wealth

Experts say the wealth of the Mubarak family was built largely from military contracts during his days as an air force officer. He eventually diversified his investments through his family when he became president in 1981. The family's net worth ranges from $40 billion to $70 billion, by some estimates.

...

"The business ventures from his military and government service accumulated to his personal wealth," said Jamal. "There was a lot of corruption in this regime and stifling of public resources for personal gain."

Jamal said that Mubarak's assets are most likely in banks outside of Egypt, possibly in the United Kingdom and Switzerland.

...

Mubarak, his wife and two sons were able to also accumulate wealth through a number of business partnerships with foreigners, said Christopher Davidson, professor of Middle East Politics at Durham University in England. He said Egyptian law requires that foreigners give a local business partner a 51 percent stake in most ventures.

/... http://abcnews.go.com/Business/egypt-mubarak-family-accumulated-wealth-days-military/story?id=12821073

It would take international cooperation, it seems, to confiscate these kinds of ill-gotten gains.

[xchrom]

14. recommend

[Pale Blue Dot]

27. We had a 2 hour delay today, AND it's a half day for students.

The kids who show up today will be in school for 75 minutes. :eyes:

[DemReadingDU]

29. Ice storm caused 21-hour power outage

The extra flashlights, lanterns, and batteries that I had stockpiled, were great for light. The gas-fired water heater gave hot water for showers. The gas log fireplace was turned on for some warmth. And I learned how to manually light my new model gas stove to cook food. Spouse had a battery with an inverter that we could plug in a radio so we could hear the local weather and news.

But spouse missed reading his email, and so we got into the 4-wheel-drive truck to get free WiFi at McDonalds, and bring lunch back to the neighbors. While I missed the Internet for reading DU, the lack of Internet access concerned me more for banking and paying bills. Maybe now's the time to convert back to manually writing checks, assuming there will be money electronically deposited for Social Security and pensions. But if the banks freeze and prevent electronic deposits, then I guess manually writing checks wouldn't get the bills paid either. :eyes:

There is nothing like a power outage to test one's preparedness.

[Demeter]

30. If the banks freeze (or maybe "seize")

there won't be any social security--it will all be given to the banksters....

more and more, I look upon Egypt as advance notice and basic training for our future endeavors here in these US of A.

[Fuddnik]

32. But, that's way off in the future.

About April or May sometime.

[Demeter]

33. Well, Then, Maybe We Won't Have to Fight in the Snow

looking for a silver lining wherever I can find it....

[Fuddnik]

36. It snowed?

Where?

[kickysnana]

38. (Hand raised) I know, I know everywhere! n/t

[bread_and_roses]

37. LOL - "way far off" (n/t)

[Fuddnik]

31. I was thinking about that the other day.

My house is overrun with books. I have book cases in 3 rooms. All full. And I donate books by the case to Goodwill and the county library. Now I have a Nook. 3-G and Wi-Fi. Books are about half price of a hardcover or paperback. Not to mention the free stuff at Gutenberg and other sites. The thing will hold up to 1500 books. Plus I installed a micro SD card which quadrupled the storage.

But, what happens when we have no power?

[Demeter]

34. Burn the books for heat, silly!

[DemReadingDU]

35. I have kept all our books, and buying more for the grandbabies

My house also runneth over with books. Yet I procrastinate buying an electronic reader because I am fearful of more frequent power outages and clampdown of cell phones and Internet access similar to what is happening in Egypt.

I'm glad this computer is an older model with dial-up access. That functionality may be useful again in the future.

[jtuck004]

41. You heat the house really well before a major snow event, then

the heat from all the books gradually releases over time. At least that's how I partly justify all the books to my wife ;)

Supplement it with the wood stove, which hopefully can be fed from a pile of wood in the back yard, and not the books.

[Demeter]

56. Books Make Better Insulation Than Heat Storage

They don't conduct heat, nor hold many BTUs per pound.

And if they get up to 451F, they combust... thank you, Ray Bradbury!

[Fuddnik]

59. Shred your old newspapers, add boric acid as fire retardant and.

Bingo! Cellulose insulation.

[jtuck004]

60. Or put the darn house in the ground to

start with. Ends a lot of those other problems if you allow for drainage ;)

[Festivito]

39. Debt: 02/01/2011 14,109,842,878,903.50 (DOWN 21,208,177,107.31) (Tue, DOWN some.)

(Good day.)
Tried to sleep in, but not quite successful.
(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 9,482,575,172,379.45 + 4,627,267,706,524.08
DOWN 2,841,687,784.84 + DOWN 18,366,489,322.47

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 311-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.21 THAT'S 1B$, and $3,212.63 makes 1T$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.64, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 12 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 311,271,392 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 10/04/2010 04:37 -> 310,403,677
Currently, each of these Americans owe $45,329.71.
A family of three owes $135,989.14. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 32 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 3,846,711,827.05.
The average for the last 30 days would be 2,820,922,006.50.
The average for the last 32 days would be 2,644,614,381.09.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 251 reports in 365 days of FY2010 averaging 6.58B$ per report, 4.53B$/day.
There were 85 reports in 124 days of FY2011 averaging 6.45B$ per report, 4.42B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 719 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 15.1 and 17.8T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
02/01/2011 14,109,842,878,903.50 BHO (UP 3,482,965,829,990.45 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +1,651,794,027,380.00 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
FY2011 +0,548,219,848,011.80 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof11 +1,613,711,649,389.57 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
01/11/2011 +000,490,152,520.38 ------------********
01/12/2011 -000,273,054,954.79 ---
01/13/2011 -005,996,045,152.69 --
01/14/2011 +000,146,255,477.48 ------------********
01/18/2011 +038,613,327,669.01 ------------********** Tue
01/19/2011 +000,009,950,983.18 ------------******
01/20/2011 -000,687,286,291.06 ---
01/21/2011 -000,057,867,302.74 ----
01/24/2011 -000,181,687,031.14 --- Mon
01/25/2011 +000,059,189,192.13 ------------*******
01/26/2011 -000,112,154,254.52 ---
01/27/2011 -004,717,116,457.79 --
01/28/2011 +002,605,585,609.92 ------------*********
01/31/2011 +072,534,426,006.14 ------------********** Mon
02/01/2011 -002,841,687,784.84 --

99,591,988,228.67 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4718958&mesg_id=4719180

[Festivito]

52. Debt: 02/02/2011 14,116,512,433,408.69 (UP 6,669,554,505.16) (Wed, UP a little.)

(Good day.)
Day off, now scurrying.
(Debt under Obama seems to jump up big then drop slowly maybe up a little and down a little for days--repeat.)
= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 9,482,735,273,832.17 + 4,633,777,159,576.52
UP 160,101,452.72 + UP 6,509,453,052.44

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 311-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.21 THAT'S 1B$, and $3,212.56 makes 1T$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.64, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 12 seconds we net gain another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 311,278,592 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 10/04/2010 04:37 -> 310,403,677
Currently, each of these Americans owe $45,350.09.
A family of three owes $136,050.27. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 23 reports in the last 30 to 33 days.
The average for the last 23 reports is 3,969,444,117.40.
The average for the last 30 days would be 3,043,240,490.00.
The average for the last 33 days would be 2,766,582,263.64.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 174 reports in 253 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.33B$ per report, 5.07B$/day so far.
There were 249 reports in 365 days of FY2009 averaging 7.57B$ per report, 5.16B$/day.
There were 251 reports in 365 days of FY2010 averaging 6.58B$ per report, 4.53B$/day.
There were 86 reports in 125 days of FY2011 averaging 6.45B$ per report, 4.44B$/day.
Above line should be okay

PROJECTION:
There are 718 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 15.1 and 17.8T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
02/02/2011 14,116,512,433,408.69 BHO (UP 3,489,635,384,495.61 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +1,651,794,027,380.00 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
FY2011 +0,554,889,402,516.90 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO
Endof11 +1,620,277,055,349.35 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
01/12/2011 -000,273,054,954.79 ---
01/13/2011 -005,996,045,152.69 --
01/14/2011 +000,146,255,477.48 ------------********
01/18/2011 +038,613,327,669.01 ------------********** Tue
01/19/2011 +000,009,950,983.18 ------------******
01/20/2011 -000,687,286,291.06 ---
01/21/2011 -000,057,867,302.74 ----
01/24/2011 -000,181,687,031.14 --- Mon
01/25/2011 +000,059,189,192.13 ------------*******
01/26/2011 -000,112,154,254.52 ---
01/27/2011 -004,717,116,457.79 --
01/28/2011 +002,605,585,609.92 ------------*********
01/31/2011 +072,534,426,006.14 ------------********** Mon
02/01/2011 -002,841,687,784.84 --
02/02/2011 +000,160,101,452.72 ------------********

99,261,937,161.01 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
DUer primer on National debt

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4720140&mesg_id=4720338

[Demeter]

40. 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism: Item #1 -- There's No Such Thing as a Free Market

http://www.alternet.org/story/149688/23_things_they_don%27t_tell_you_about_capitalism%3A_item_%231_--_there%27s_no_such_thing_as_a_free_market?page=entire

...It is no secret that the American society is dominated by the super rich, held for hostage by the banks, dominated in the Nation's Capital by the tens of thousands of lobbyists and their big bucks, as the Republican party and their corporate Tea Partyists provide cover for giant theft of many billions of wealth for the very rich, with of course the cooperation of the Democrats who supported the extension of the Bush tax cuts for the very wealthy (Check out Rachel Maddow's op-ed, which explains why Dwight Eisenhower, who taxed the rich to balance the budget, which be a radical in today's political reality). In this very discouraging environment it is hard to imagine scenarios where normal folks, every day voters, the non-rich, who are not represented by lobbyists, can have much influence....

[Amonester]

45. In fact, ZERO influence. (n/t)

[Demeter]

42. Koch Brothers Earned An Extra $11 Billion In Recent Years,, Laid Off Thousands

http://www.alternet.org/rss/1/458013/as_tea_party_koch_brothers_earned_an_extra_%2411_billion_in_recent_years%2C_they_laid_off_thousands

[DemReadingDU]

46. ZeroHedge: In Advance Of The Egyptian Bank Run...

2/3/11 In Advance Of The Egyptian Bank Run...
According to Al Jazeera, the Egyptian Central Bank has just imposed a withdrawal limit of $10,000 on all banks in order to prevent a systemic bank run that will promptly wipe out what is left of the financial system. Look for this number to be cut to $100 in the first several minutes after banks reopen (whenever that actually happens). As for all that central bank currency "gold backing", somehow we have a feeling that Egypt's 75.6 tonnes in gold is about to be drastically adjusted. Also, it is not too late to reevaluate that long EGPT thesis.
More as we get it.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/advance-egyptian-bank-run


2/2/11 Egypt cbank says banks to reopen on Sunday
Egypt's banks will remain closed on Thursday but reopen on Sunday, the official news agency MENA quoted a central bank official as saying. "The Central Bank of Egypt has decided that Egyptian banks will resume operations as of Sunday," said the official, who was not named. Banks and the stock exchange were closed for a fourth straight day on Wednesday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/02/egypt-cbank-idUSWEB676720110202

[xchrom]

48. +1

[bread_and_roses]

49. Oh my, oh my - the comments on Common Dreams

LOL, if anyone around this site thinks any of US are harsh on Obama, they should take a gander at what people on a site with no "D" in the name have to say:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/02/03-3

[Roland99]

53. Inflation’s First Phase

from email

The year 2011 is the year when inflation will play the role of wrecking ball. It seems to threaten everything from emerging markets to the pretty earnings narrative of the market as a whole.

I use the term "inflation" here as the man on the street does. It is when prices for most everything go up. It is not the best definition, because it obscures the reason why prices for most everything go up in the first place. The reason is that governments everywhere can't help but print lots of money. But let us not wander off course. It is what it is.

Instead, let's think about the big emerging markets for a moment. They have been so important to the investment story of the last decade, for sure. Yet rising food and energy prices pose a big risk to them.

In India, food prices are at their highest levels in more than a year, rising 18%. The dabbawalla, when he is done delivering lunchboxes, trots off to the market and finds that the price of onions has doubled in only a few months. Even the basics, like potatoes, have become expensive to the average Indian.

One 54-year-old cloth trader in Mumbai complained: "It seems everything is going up in price, from vegetable and meat to diesel and household cooking gas. We are always worried as to what is next."

Food prices are again becoming a serious issue, as they did in 2008 when the last food crisis brought riots in 30 countries all over the world. The UN tracks an index of 55 food commodities. It rose for the sixth straight month and is, in fact, above the previous high in June 2008.

In China, the typical Chinese also faces rising prices for nearly everything. The official inflation rate recently hit a 28-month high. But it's the surging price of coal that may prove to be China's Achilles' heel, at least in the short term. Coal is what powers the great boom in China. And coal is at two-year highs.

The basics like food and energy are like brakes on these economies. I think it would be surprising if, say, China could continue to grow 8% a year in a world of $100 oil - at least initially. (Solutions are found, in time.) Of course, the US and the more mature economies are not immune to rising food and energy prices, either.

The thing is it is early in this story yet. Inflation will likely get much worse, if history is any guide. Everyone seems to know the US inflationary story of the 1970s. The official inflation rate hit nearly 14% by 1980. In other countries, it was worse. In the UK, inflation topped out at 27%; in Japan, 30%.

It was not that long ago. Who is to say how bad things can get today? We will see, and we will watch things closely.

In the stock market, inflation poses its own challenge to earnings. Thus far, out of the March 2009 bottom, earnings have exceeded expectations. The market has danced accordingly. But rising prices for commodities mean that many companies will face cost pressures. Whether they are able to pass on those increases to consumers and maintain their profit margins (and sales) is the challenge.

Plus, those expectations have shifted. The market has risen to date on the back of a skeptical and pessimistic earnings view. As all bull markets do, it has successfully climbed that wall of worry. Yet cheerful forecasts make for a market vulnerable to near-term disappointment. The consensus forecast is $96 in earnings for the S&P 500, which would top its record mark in 2006. For the upcoming quarter, the consensus calls for a 29% increase in earnings from a year ago.

We won't have to wait long to see some early indications if this is likely or not, as earnings start to roll in this week. Regardless, I'm convinced inflation is going to become the story in the markets this year. There are a number of investment consequences of the above, which we'll work out as we go along.

However, since it is still early in the inflation curve, I think commodity businesses ought to do OK for the simple reason that what they sell adjusts nearly instantly to the effects of inflation. Oil companies, coal miners and farmers don't apologize for the prices of their goods. A barrel of oil is a barrel of oil, and you either pay the price or you don't get it. It's not a bag of Doritos, for which you can switch to a knockoff brand if they raise the price on you.

But not all commodities will be on such footing. Take US lumber prices. I found this next chart very curious:




As David Wilson of Bloomberg points out, "Lumber has bounced back to prices seen during last decade's boom in US housing even though the homebuilding industry, one of the biggest sources of demand, is still in a bust."

How so? Chinese demand. But the increase is from a temporary surge. China is trying to reduce its dependence on Russia, which is China's largest supplier. Perhaps it is a long-term shift. Or perhaps the Russians will sweeten the deal to get back their market share. If so, then the earnings of Plum Creek, Rayonier, Weyerhaeuser and other US log producers may enjoy only a brief day in the sun.

In the commodity realm, I prefer longer-lasting advantages. Oil, for example, has held up well, and we know how difficult and expensive it is to find new sources of supply. The price of gold may be the most durable price of any commodity. Especially as the inflation thesis plays out. I'd stick with the smaller miners, because I think inflation will make it more attractive for big gold producers to buy smaller ones than to create such production from scratch.

Despite this big-picture guesswork, I think it will be important to be choosy. First, the recent market rally has lifted all boats, even the leaky ones. But over the long haul, the leaky ships will still sink. It will pay to be in the right names. Second, you always have to consider the consequences of being wrong. You'll fare better in such cases with a quality name, well financed, led by talented people and acquired at a cheap price. Such investments will likely make you money over time, even if you get the big picture wrong. This is what smart investing is all about.

Regards,

Chris Mayer,
for The Daily Reckoning

[ret5hd]

54. I wonder if todays 'toon could make the Arabs a liiiiiittle more stereotypical.

Frankly, I find it offensive.

[Demeter]

57. Cartoons Are Meant to be Offensive to Someone

so that the rest of us can giggle. It's the nature of humor.

And the best humorists, the best loved, make fun of themselves: Jack Benny, Red Skelton, Phil Silvers, Jack Gilford, Zero Mostel, etc, etc...

[ret5hd]

58. I just think the arabs nose needs to be "hookier" and the jew can look...

just a ;little more milquetoast.