Star must identify anonymous posters to website, judge rule

[bergie321]

Source: Indianapolis Star

A Marion County judge has ruled, for the first time in Indiana, that news media outlets can be ordered by the court to reveal identifying information about posters to their online forums.

In rulings this week and last week, Marion Superior Court Judge S.K. Reid became the first judge in Indiana to rule on whether the state journalism shield law protects media outlets from being forced to disclose names of anonymous posters on their websites or other identifying information about those posters, said Kevin Betz, an attorney for Jeffrey Miller, former chief executive of Junior Achievement of Central Indiana.

The rulings came in a defamation lawsuit Miller filed last year. He is seeking to broaden the list of defendants in his case to include people who criticized him anonymously last year on websites run by The Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis Business Journal and WRTV (Channel 6).

The case is among a growing number of defamation claims nationally that target anonymous Internet posters to websites operated by news media and other owners.

Read more: http://www.indystar.com/article/20110302/LOCAL18/103020335/Judge-Star-IBJ-must-identify-anonymous-posters?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

---

I am sure you will be shocked to learn that the judge is a Republican.

[somone]

1. Same idiot judge who advocated 'the state's interest in encouraging procreation'

[drm604]

2. Does this mean that websites would be required to somehow verify the identities of posters?

Good luck enforcing that.

[mysterysoup]

42. I have always assumed this was true.

Anyone with a subpoena can get your identity from your ISP. How is this news?

[Roy Rolling]

3. okay, if them's the rules

what about forcing disclosure of the idiots that create the right-wing hate emails that stir up the passions of wrong-wingers with hate speech and falsehoods? If this is the law, then they should not be protected to spew lies without consequence.

[fatbuckel]

4. Hey Marion Superior Court Judge S.K. Reid,my name is James Cooper and you can go fuck yourself.

[speltwon]

5. The technology of the internet has created the idea that there is some sacrosanct right to anonymous

protest/commentary. Especially when using a forum owned by someone else. The issue was never really addressed much prior to the internet becoming popular. Most media outlets required LTE to be attributed to a particular person, for example. Public square protests were done where pretty much anybody could see who was protesting, etc. The idea that one has the right to express opinion (1st amendment) =/= in all cases the idea that one has the right to do so anonymously. That's not to say this decision is the correct one, it is to say that just because a technology creates the APPEARANCE of anonymity (unless you anonymize etc. which the vast majority do not do, you are NOT anonymous on the internet) does not create a right to be so.

[bergie321]

19. Signing up for a message board

Is different from sending a LTTE with a fake name how?

[plumbob]

30. The founding fathers used many pseudonyms to write in newspapers, the Internet of the day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pseudonyms_used_in_the_American_constitutional_debates

Phocion Alexander Hamilton
A Plain Dealer Spencer Roane<2>
A Plebian Melancton Smith
Publius Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay


LOTs more at link....

[speltwon]

39. That's a good point

And clearly there were attempts at anonymous speech before the internet, just not nearly as frequently or as expected as a "given". I mean, I admit it. I almost feel like there is some sort of "right" to comment anonymously on the net, etc. W/o the internet, I never really had that idea that ANONYMOUS speech was some sort of right. Most forms of anonymous speech require somebody else to take the mantle of protecting that anonymity. But not all

[No Elephants]

41. How do you NOT expect anonymity when you sign up to post on a message board?

So what if we never had the expectation before a new tehnology came into our lives? No one expected to fly at one point in time, either, or to have mail delivered across country by anything other than horses.

By the same token, anonymous posts on a message board are not given the same credibility that is given to a NYT story, or even a well-done term paper.

[speltwon]

46. You can expect whatever you want. What I am saying is that

expecting that your posts on an internet board have constitutional protection against disclosure that you in fact were the poster is not an established fact of constitutional law. Not to me. Not according to case law. The reality is it is MUCH more likely to forced to be disclosed because of a civil action by an individual or corporation than a criminal investigation by the govt. But I operate under the assumption that it is certainly possible that anything I post on the internet can be traced back to me. You certainly have the right to post your viewpoints, without govt. interference, and that freedom is greater than pretty much any nation on earth (we don't have hate speech laws, for example, or laws against vilifying religion, etc. which are common in europe, etc.).

[d_r]

6. Good luck finding

"Fred Flinstone" and "Humphrey Bear."

[-..__...]

12. All they need is the server logs...

and relevant IPs.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. You presume there were kept or even recorded initially

It is not legally required. I run several servers, including email and proxy servers. No logging. In one case everything is memory resident with *nothing* on disk but a copy of Win98se and diagnostics.

[-..__...]

17. Yes...

But, that's not really the point.

Because if they do keep logs... posting under assumed names and entering false user info isn't going to keep a persons true identity from being found out.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. That is why a proxy server is so important

I post through one to everywhere, including DU. They can have my account name, email, and IP but it will get them nowhere. The proxy server keeps no records by design, other than a logon account.

[-..__...]

35. Damn....

someone looking for you! B-)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

37. There have been a few incidents...

Some lawyers simply will not believe that there are no logs or other records. They called me irresponsible and one went so far as to say I was supporting Internet terrorisim...all I do is smile.

[d_r]

33. don't you ever

flip off your wifi and use your neighbor's signal just for the hell of it?

[-..__...]

34. Well...

that's one way of doing it... assuming the AP/router is unsecured and the signal is strong enough.

Depending on where one lives, there should be any number of public or free WiFi connections (coffee shops, laundromats, restaurants, etc), if one wants to take that route.

But, to answer your question... no.

I keep my connection locked down pretty good... at least good enough to prevent all but the most determined from leaching.

[snooper2]

47. Unless you are using a random NAT'ed computer in the lab

:rofl:

[totodeinhere]

7. How much longer until some idiot judge orders DU to do the same thing? n/t

[Bragi]

8. I too can see that happening

I fully support anonymous free speech, but like most civil liberties that I value, I expect this one to disappear sometime in the not too distant future.

The post-9/11 "era" has been a catastrophe for civil liberties. I see nothing on the horizon to change this.

[No Elephants]

44. +1 Unless people protest persistently and strongly. But I see no sign of that, either.

[EFerrari]

11. It could happen now. And if it's a sealed order, Skinner would be

enjoined from even telling us. He'd have to go to court to get it unsealed, like Twitter did when the DoJ asked for all the information on everyone that was following Wikileaks.

It might not be a bad idea to figure out what your privacy needs are with that in mind, no matter where you post.

[Bragi]

13. I totally agree we need a privacy plan b

Plan B being that we operate knowing we no longer have any privacy rights.

I myself am fond of this (offshore) service:

https://www.anonymousspeech.com/

[EFerrari]

14. After those @sshole freepers stalked Andy

and anyone that was helping him, I decided anonymity wasn't something I needed anyway.

But, other people might have issues with work or family or in their community, whatever. Those folks definitely need a Plan B. :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. And that bring up a good point - is everyone here happy that people stalked Andy anonymously?

Pretty much all replies to this thread have said people support everyone being able to do anything they want on the Internet, anonymously. But one consequence of that is assholes stalking people, and ruining their life, and perhaps ending it, as in Andy's case.

That's why I think this decision may be acceptable, or even necessary.

[EFerrari]

40. That's a good point.

The good Christians who had Andy's paypal account shut down, defamed him and others all over the net and got his medicaid shut down will hopefully have to face the maker they claim to believe in for harassing a terminally sick man even to his deathbed. The disgusting fucks. That they were wrong at every point didn't even phase them because it's their way of life.

I was able to track two of the ringleaders after a while, with only the tools available to a civilian. We probably had enough information to ask for a restraining order but, there were too many other, higher priorities and no time.

The whole question of internet stalking has to be addressed, though.

[boppers]

45. Going offshore means that US domestic wiretap protections are irrelevant.

Annoying catch-22 there.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. You can protect yourself from that without Skinner's help

Though Skinner could also make it harder by automatically purging such information on a weekly basis.

[The Flaming Red Head]

9. Say it 3 times. Anonymous, Anonymous, Anonymous

And they will appear and then disappear just as fast. That fascist judge is begging for it.

[EFerrari]

10. This is almost too tempting to pass up!

[cory777]

20. Star must identify anonymous posters to website, judge rules

Source: The Indianapolis Star

A Marion County judge has ruled, for the first time in Indiana, that news media outlets can be ordered by the court to reveal identifying information about posters to their online forums.

In rulings this week and last week, Marion Superior Court Judge S.K. Reid became the first judge in Indiana to rule on whether the state journalism shield law protects media outlets from being forced to disclose names of anonymous posters on their websites or other identifying information about those posters, said Kevin Betz, an attorney for Jeffrey Miller, former chief executive of Junior Achievement of Central Indiana.

The rulings came in a defamation lawsuit Miller filed last year. He is seeking to broaden the list of defendants in his case to include people who criticized him anonymously last year on websites run by The Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis Business Journal and WRTV (Channel 6).

The case is among a growing number of defamation claims nationally that target anonymous Internet posters to websites operated by news media and other owners.

Read more: http://www.indystar.com/article/20110302/LOCAL18/103020335/Judge-Star-IBJ-must-identify-anonymous-posters?odyssey=tab

---

Uncensored Activist News http://activistnews.blogspot.com

[joeybee12]

21. This judge is an idiot...nt

[provis99]

23. I think you just anonymously defamed the judge...

[JDPriestly]

25. provis99, Google defamation. It isn't so easy to prove.

But a lawsuit about it can be a drag.

[provis99]

31. Yeah, I know. I was being facetious.

[Kelvin Mace]

22. Does anyone know what the "defamatory" remarks were?

They are not mentioned in the story.

[No Elephants]

43. Rebroadcasting or re-publishing them would have to be done carefully or

the persons and entities responsible for repeating them might be sued as well.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. Dup post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4753810&mesg_id=4753810

[cory777]

26. My bad

[JDPriestly]

27. I remind everyone that Benjamin Franklin wrote letters under various

pseudonyms to his own newspaper just to liven it up.

Also, The Federalist Papers were originally published under the pseudonym "Publius."

The authors used the pseudonym "Publius", in honor of Roman consul Publius Valerius Publicola.<4> While some historians credit Jefferson's influence, it is Madison who often now receives greater foundational credit as the father of the Constitution despite his repeated rejection of the honor during his lifetime. Madison became a leading member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Virginia (1789-1797), Secretary of State (1801-1809), and ultimately the fourth President of the United States.<5> Hamilton, who had been a leading advocate of national constitutional reform throughout the 1780s and represented New York at the Constitutional Convention, in 1789 became the first Secretary of the Treasury, a post he held until his resignation in 1795. John Jay, who had been secretary for foreign affairs under the Articles of Confederation from 1784 through their expiration in 1789, became the first Chief Justice of the United States in 1789, stepping down in 1795 to accept election as governor of New York, a post he held for two terms, retiring in 1801.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Papers

At the time of our Revolution, it was quite common for newspapers to publish what we would consider defamatory statements about various politicians. Thomas Jefferson got a full share of anonymous criticism. Just which of the claims published about him at the time were fictional and therefore defamatory is still a subject of discussion.

I remember a judge who once responded to a party bringing a defamation claim saying something to the effect of "I get called an idiot all the time. I may disagree, but it isn't defamation."

Everyone should google defamation -- what it means, what it doesn't mean. It will put your mind at ease I think. Hopefully.

Claiming that Obama grew up in Kenya -- now that might just be defamatory. There is utterly no reason to think that Obama grew up in Kenya other than ignorant rumor. But a judge and jury would have to decide.

[shanti]

28. geez

that would take out about 90% of news media posts if a person's real name had to be posted.

[Snoutport]

29. Maybe a good thing? Sorta? Maybe?

If it is a defamation case...someone is posting really nasty things about someone...why shouldn't they be held accountable for their words if they were willfully trying to destroy someone's character? Anonymous posting allows people, or groups of people, to willfully undermine the will of the people. One person can make himself look like hundreds with the intent to hurt someone. I'm in Oregon and every time there is an article in the paper about education there are suddenly hundreds of anti-education comments within a day or two. "Fire them all!" etc. It would be nice to expose it if one person is responsible for multiple attacks or telling repeated lies to sway public opinion. Let's face it, current politics use that tool all the time!

Threats to kill also fall into that frame of reference. All the whackos talking about killing could suddenly be held accountable for their words too.

There is discourse and there is libel and threats. Used wisely this ruling could do some good.

But there is a flip side....quite the double edge sword, this one. But it will probably force better discourse.

Or, you know, evil people will use it as a tool to shut up the opposition and this ruling could be the start of the total unraveling of the democratic system. one or the other.

[Dogmudgeon]

32. For those interested in cyber-privacy: TOR

TOR is an open-source distributed privacy system. The more people who get involved with it, the better the security becomes, and at least in theory, the faster access becomes.

https://www.torproject.org/">TOR Project

FYI, it was named after pro wrestler and b-movie horror actor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_Johnson">Tor Johnson, who played the monster in Plan Nine from Outer Space.

--d!

[-..__...]

36. Get the fuck outta heah...

Why is it called Tor?

Because Tor is the onion routing network. When we were starting the new next-generation design and implementation of onion routing in 2001-2002, we would tell people we were working on onion routing, and they would say "Neat. Which one?" Even if onion routing has become a standard household term, Tor was born out of the actual onion routing project run by the Naval Research Lab.

(It's also got a fine translation from German and Turkish.)

Note: even though it originally came from an acronym, Tor is not spelled "TOR". Only the first letter is capitalized. In fact, we can usually spot people who haven't read any of our website (and have instead learned everything they know about Tor from news articles) by the fact that they spell it wrong.

https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#WhyCalledTor

[Dogmudgeon]

48. (Reply withdrawn)

I've had too much DU Negativity lately.

--d!