Libya Rebels Reject Potential Gaddafi Offer To Step Down, Al Jazeera Reports

[Tx4obama]

Source: Reuters (via HuffPo)

(Reuters) - Al Jazeera television said Libyan rebels on Monday rejected an offer by Muammar Gaddafi to hold a meeting of parliament to work out a deal under which he would step down.

Al Jazeera said sources from the rebel interim council told its correspondent in Benghazi that the offer was rejected because it would have amounted to an "honourable" exit for Gaddafi and would offend his victims.

Al Jazeera said Gaddafi wanted guarantees of personal safety for him and his family and a pledge that they not be put on trial. It said that Gaddafi had sent former prime minister Jadallah Azzouz Talhi to meet the rebels and offer to hold a meeting of the General People's Congress to work out the details of such a deal.

The offer aimed at having Gaddafi hand over power to a committee formed by the General People's Congress, the television said.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/07/gaddafi-resigning-libya-resignation_n_832578.html

---

Related articles below

Gaddafi sends negotiators to Benghazi
http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=1&id=24415

Live blog
#
2248: The rebels rejected the deal as it would mean an "honourable" exit for Col Gaddafi, Reuters quotes the channel as saying.
#
2245: More details now on the offer Al-Jazeera says Col Gaddafi has offered to the rebels. The channel's correspondent in Benghazi was told by the rebels that the leader had asked for safe passage for his family and immunity from prosecution. They would hold a People's Congress to discuss the details, it reports.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[wtbymark]

1. sorry Muammar, I don't think the Hague comprimises...

on charges of crimes against humanity. Whatever deal you'd hoped to strike with the people of your own country won't keep you out of international court. And I doubt you'll be welcome to stay in Lybia any longer. He really is delusional.

[joshcryer]

3. He will have a bullet to the brain before getting to the Hague.

I hope I'm wrong and that the Libyan people make a spectacle of the tyrant, and all of his deals he made with foreign states, but I have a feeling it won't end that way.

[Sonicwall]

15. Pet peeve...

Sorry - it's Libya...

Not Lybia.....

I can see why people get confused...

[woolldog]

2. These rebels are stupid

They prefer civil war? Why not just accept the deal? Q steps down and is given immunity, and the people of Libya get on with their life and can form a government.

I had doubts about them when they took the British diplomatic delegation hostage. This is just reinforcing my doubts about them.

[joshcryer]

4. They released the diplomatic delegation. Gaddafi is asking for IMMUNITY.

IMMUNITY to end the conflict? Bull fucking shit. That's just not happening.

[woolldog]

5. josh,

it's what happened in Eygypt and Tunisia. If it was good enough for them, should be good enough for the Libyans. These rebels aren't thinking. They want vengeance, not what's best for their country. I don't have a good feeling about what kind of gov't will replace Q. I'm less and less sympathetic to their cause.

This is going to be a bloody stalemate unless the West gets involved and I don't think the West should get involved, given what I've seen of these rebels.

As for the hostages, they should've never taken those hostages to begin with. It's certainly dumb to alienate a country (in Britain) who was in a position to help them with arms, medicine, no fly zone etc. These people have no idea what they're doing. And I have no confidence in them.

[Posteritatis]

8. The Egyptian and Tunisian governments didn't turn aircraft and field artillery on their people

The Libyan government did, and I think wanting vengeance for that, both in the immediate physical sense and in the judicial sense of not granting immunity to the people directly responsible for that, is entirely alright.

Libya became a separate situation from either of those countries the moment Qadaffi started ranting openly about the need to kill every last Libyan who opposed his rule. You don't negotiate with someone who makes that kind of proclamation.

[joshcryer]

11. Vengence does play a part but there's also justice.

[joshcryer]

10. You don't get immunity after doing what Gaddafi did, every death would be wiped clean.

The 6 months also gives Gaddafi time to hoard his money and move it quietly away. And there's no guarantee that after the fact Gaddafi would step down.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. How many more lives are you will to spend to insure your position?

Sometimes it is best in the long run to make a deal.

[joshcryer]

12. How many lives is Gaddafi willing to spend to get immunity? He could step down right now, leave.

He could fly to Nicaragua or Venezuela tonight.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. Not with immunity

If you do not give him and out, the fighting will continue. Moreover the next tin pot to fall will fight even harder.

[joshcryer]

19. So immunity is more important than the lives of Libyans?

[woolldog]

20. immunity will SAVE Libyan lives

is the point

Q is like a wounded lion that's been cornered. If you don't wanna get hurt give him an out.

[joshcryer]

23. No, the rebels don't want immunity. What will save lives is a summary resignation...

...in handcuffs delivered up to the International Criminal Courts.

But Gaddafi doesn't want to save lives, he wants to distract.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. Which says a lot about their leadership...

If Gaddafi has no place to go he will fight to the death. Given that he has the heavy weapons and the warplanes, that means many more will die before he goes down.

How many lives are you willing to see sacrificed for Gaddafi to face the ICC?

[johnroshan]

41. Justice or Peace?

What matters the most?

Giving immunity to the bastard who used the Air Force to bomb his own civilians? So he can live out the rest of his life in style in some tropical paradise? I don't think anyone in Libya who saw the bombs drop, watched the limbs torn will ever agree to that. I can understand their sentiments, even if it means more fighting, more deaths, sometime justice is more important than peace.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. So you would support the loss of addtional lives to get Gaddafi, what would be your limit

1000, 5000, infinite? How high would the butchers bill have to be before you would think it was not worth it?

[johnroshan]

65. Well, in that case why even come to the streets in the first place?

You can save even more lives that way...

Justice or Peace?

There can be no peace without justice.


John.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. Dumb....

Lives are less important than pride. It is a clue about the quality of the opposition.

The issue is still in doubt in Libya...if you offer Gaddafi an out it could end it peaceably.

[Turborama]

51. Here's "a clue about the quality of the opposition". Immunity offered in telephone interview on AJE

"If he leaves Libya immediately, during 72 hours, and stops the bombardment, we as Libyans will step back from pursuing him for crimes," Mustafa Abdel Jalil, head of the opposition National Council, told Al Jazeera on Tuesday.

He said the deadline would not be extended beyond 72 hours.

"Based on our love for our country we have proposed to the indirect negotiators that a solution can be reached," Jalil told Al Jazeera.

"Conditions are that firstly he stops all combat in the fields, secondly that his departure is within 72 hours; thirdly we may waive our right of domestic prosecution ... for the crimes of oppression, persecution, starvation and massacres.

"We will have to wait and see what the regime's response is."

Video: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201138133847222111.html

[DetlefK]

9. Gaddafi will commit suicide. His son will steal the remaining money and flee to Cuba or Venezuela.

That's my guess.

[joshcryer]

13. Yep.

[JanDutchy]

14. Meainwhile: the humor threa(t)d

video

Cheap Tricks http://www.luckymedia.nl/luckytv/2011/02/goedkope-trucs/


Donald http://www.luckymedia.nl/luckytv/2011/02/nog-een-keer/

Wearing Sunglasses http://www.luckymedia.nl/luckytv/2011/03/wearing-sunglasses/

[joshcryer]

16. JanDutchy, Libyan Netherlands embassy raised liberated flag today, you should get a pic!

If you live nearby of course. :)

Request originated in latest Libyan tweet thread. ;)

[bloomington-lib]

18. Gaddafi is basically taking hostages now

It's like a bank robber that is cornered and is threatening to kill more people if he isn't let go. I'm not an expert on hostage negotiation, but I think first you have to get them out of the situation where they could hurt more people. Then capture him outside the "building".

[David__77]

21. Probably not even true.

The GPC technically already runs things, and technically he has no position, so I doubt such a "proposal" could be made at all. Either way, it seems that there is a strategic equilibrium at this point.

[joshcryer]

24. So you buy the propaganda that Gaddafi is the Queen of Libya?

:rofl:



Gaddafi controls, directly, hundreds of troops, has billions of dollars he's funneling to mercs. He's certainly in charge and the GPC has historically done his bidding.

This story is true and I have a feeling it's connected to the Venezuelan peace process proposal.

[David__77]

25. Geez, please note that I said "technically."

Of course he exercises de facto leadership despite his claims to the contrary.

The story strikes me as untrue, but admit I certainly have no way of knowing one way or the other. Various actors are engaged in counter-intelligence to affect morale and narrative.

[joshcryer]

29. See post #28 if you continue to have doubts in the veracity of this report.

[David__77]

31. Does it make any difference really?

The opposition council has made clear that it wants to engage in no negotiations except those pertaining to a transfer of state power. The Tripoli authorities putting out any sort of negotiation-oriented proposal would be a diplomatic tactic and that is it. I err on the side of skepticism with regard to news reports pertaining to all manner of events.

[joshcryer]

33. It does. Just days ago diplomacy was seen as a win win here.

And the people calling for diplomacy were being praised with belated ignorance of what it entailed. (eg, Gaddafi getting away with crimes against his people and billions of dollars.)

[roamer65]

22. They want revenge. Gadhafi is a dead man walking.

[boppers]

26. They should take the deal.

Promise immunity, let him step down, keep his money....

And once he has actually done that, arrest his ass, along with his co-conspirators, and try them.

Give him a second of honor, before making the point that some things are beneath honor.

[joshcryer]

27. His condition is 6 months. That gives him 6 months to shut the media down...

...to execute all the revolutionaries, to build a mercenary army, to put more money into hidden assets in friendly states (Venezuela, Nicaragua, Syria, etc, etc). It would be an impossibly wrong move in all comprehensible ways.

[boppers]

38. Promise him 6 months. Give him 6 minutes.

He has no honor left to, well, honor.

[joshcryer]

40. Yeah, basically he's offering a protracted battle. He says "give me 6 months."

The rebels wait and see what happens, no big changes are happening, the rebels reignite their revolution, he clamps down, etc, etc.

[pinboy3niner]

28. UPDATE: Council spokesman confirms Gaddafi offer to negotiate his departure

From AJE Libya Live Blog - March 8:

11:01am < (4:01 AM EST) >

A representative of Muammar Gaddafi offered talks with the rebel National Libyan Council on his exit but the council rejected it, Mustafa Gheriani, a rebel spokesman said.

"I confirm that we received contact from a Gaddafi representative seeking to negotiate Gaddafi's exit. We rejected this. We are not negotiating with someone who spilled Libyan blood and continues to do so. Why would we trust the guy today?

Al Jazeera reports that the council said it may not pursue Gaddafi for crimes they accuse him of committing, if he steps down.


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-8

[Turborama]

36. They were saying just now that the "rebels" are considering it. Also, he doesn't just want immunity

He wants to keep the pile of loot he's been busily building up for the past 40+ years, as well.

This has just been added to AJE's blog..

12:10pm
The leadership of Libya's opposition movements says that it will not pursue criminal charges against Muammar Gaddafi if he resigns and leaves the country, the head of their self-declared national council says to AFP.

[David__77]

30. Libyan state television refutes reports Kadhafi is ready to withdraw

Tripoli. The Libyan state television has refuted the reports that Moamer Kadhafi has proposed to the National Council to hold a meeting of the Libyan people’s congress to discuss the conditions for his resignation, ITAR-TASS reported.

Earlier Al Jazeera announced that Kadhafi had proposed to hand over his power to the parliament in exchange for guarantees of his own safety. The opposition rejected Kadhafi’s suggestion.

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n243980

(Not that this means such a proposal was not indeed made in reality!)

[joshcryer]

32. Of course, Gaddafi is still towing the line that the country is infected with terrorists.

Didn't you get the memo?

[boppers]

42. *toeing

Sorry, I correct typos.

Nothing personal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line

[joshcryer]

43. Ha! Thanks. Didn't realize it was toeing.

I always saw it as towing something, a line to be specific. :P

[joshcryer]

34. Drug induced western media manipulated al-Qaeda tricked terrorists, at that.

[Turborama]

35. Another Update... Opposition: Gadhafi working on deal to step down

By the CNN Wire Staff
March 8, 2011 5:13 a.m. EST

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Moammar Gadhafi is trying to strike a deal with opposition leaders, saying he will step down as Libya's leader if they can guarantee him safe passage out of the country and promise that neither he nor his family will face prosecution, an official with the opposition said Tuesday.

The development could not be immediately confirmed with members of Gadhafi's government.

The opposition has submitted counter-offers with several demands. Among them is a stipulation that Gadhafi has to immediately concede he is not the ruler of Libya, said Amal Bugaigis, a member of the opposition group called the February 17 Coalition.

The devlopment comes as Libya enters its fourth week of bloody clashes Tuesday and there was little doubt that the situation had turned into all-out civil war.

Full article (& photo gallery): http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/08/libya.civil.war/index.html?hpt=T2

[pinboy3niner]

37. Opposition leadership will not seek criminal charges if Gaddafi resigns, exits

AJE Live Blog - Libya March 8:

The leadership of Libya's opposition movements says that it will not pursue criminal charges against Muammar Gaddafi if he resigns and leaves the country, the head of their self-declared national council says to AFP.


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-8

[joshcryer]

39. I am certain in my belief that Gaddafi's lawyers are saying that won't hold water.

[Turborama]

44. I hope he takes the ruse and goes for it. It doesn't matter what the opposition promise

The ICC have issued an orange alert via Interpol against him and 15 others for their crimes against humanity. Hopefully they missed this news: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4757257

[joshcryer]

45. Same here, but I am looking at the bigger picture, he's boosted his attacks considerably...

...and I think it indicates that in the end he's not going to step down in the manner that they wish.

But, I hope he takes the ruse and falls for it. I hope he's getting bad advice from his lawyers.

[pinboy3niner]

46. Yes, if the idea was to give him an incentive to leave, it's not much of one

Prosecution in Libya is not the only thing he has to be worried about.

:hi:

[pampango]

47. Al Jazerra: Rebels considering 'Gaddafi offer' (but government denies the report)

http://english.aljazeera.net//news/africa/2011/03/20113891944173347.html

The leaders of Libya's uprising say they are considering a conditional offer from Muammar Gaddafi to step down, sources have told Al Jazeera.

Libyan state television on Tuesday denied reports that the Libyan leader tried to strike a deal with opposition forces seeking his removal. However, a spokesman for the opposition National Council in the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi confirmed that a representative had sought to negotiate Gaddafi's exit.

Gaddafi was reported to have sent a representative to Benghazi on Sunday night to discuss a conditional plan to step down, Al Jazeera learned. The offer was provided on the condition that Gaddafi would be able to keep his assets and avoid prosecution. The Libyan leader is said to be willing to step down in return for dropping war crimes charges against him and guaranteeing a safe exit for him and his family. He also reportedly wants guarantees from the UN that he will be allowed to keep his money.

Abdel Jalil Mustapha, the head of the opposition National Council, rejected the idea until Gaddafi actually leaves but said the council "may" consider a deal after his exit. "We rejected this (deal). We are not negotiating with someone who spilled Libyan blood and continues to do so. Why would we trust the guy today?" Mustafa Gheriani, a media officer for the council said.

[Turborama]

48. CBC: Rebels won't pursue Gadhafi if he quits soon

CBC News Posted: Mar 8, 2011 8:04 AM ET

The head of the anti-government rebel body in Libya says it will not pursue Moammar Gadhafi for alleged crimes if he steps down as leader of the north African country within the next three days.

"If he leaves Libya immediately, during 72 hours, and stops the bombardment, we as Libyans will step back from pursuing him for crimes," Mustafa Abdel Jalil, an ex-justice minister, told Al-Jazeera Television by telephone about 8:30 a.m. ET.

Abdel Jalil is the leader of the Libyan national council, the political voice of the rebels.

The CBC's Nahlah Ayed reported the council had said it had "indirect" talks with Gadhafi representatives.

"Of course, as you might expect, Gadhafi officials have already said this is not true and they deny it," she said Tuesday from the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

Full article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/03/08/gadhafi-step-down-offer479.html

[dipsydoodle]

52. Libyan rebel gives Gaddafi 72 hours to quit

Source: AlertNet

CAIRO, March 8 (Reuters) - Rebels will not pursue Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi over crimes they say he has committed if he steps down from his post in the next 72 hours, the head of the rebel National Libyan Council said on Tuesday.

"If he leaves Libya immediately, during 72 hours, and stops the bombardment, we as Libyans will step back from pursuing him for crimes," Mustafa Abdel Jalil, an ex-justice minister, told Al Jazeera television by telephone, speaking at about 1330 GMT.

He said the deadline would not be extended beyond 72 hours. The council is based in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi. (Writing by Edmund Blair)

Read more: http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/libyan-rebel-gives-gaddafi-72-hours-to-quit/

---

This is breaking on normal news channels as I write.

edit to add : see here for example :

Rebels set demands for Gaddafi exit
Head of Libyan opposition says Gaddafi 'will not be pursued' if he quits within 72 hours and stops bombing countrymen.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201138133847222111.html

[WatsonT]

53. I'm guessing he's not going to take that deal

just a hunch.

[groundloop]

56. Somehow I have a hunch you're correct

He's held on to power for so many years by being a ruthless thug, no reason to change his act now.

[Uncle Joe]

58. That's probably what Ceaucescu was thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceaucescu

Ceaușescu's second decade was characterized by an increasingly erratic personality cult, nationalism and a deterioration in foreign relations with the Western powers as well as the Soviet Union. Ceaușescu's government was overthrown in a December 1989 revolution, and he and his wife were executed following a televised and hastily organised two-hour court session.<2>

[WatsonT]

63. Usually they have plenty of money squirreled away

and an escape plan or two in the works.

So there's no reason not to hold on to power until the last second.

And who knows, he may turn it around yet.

[L. Coyote]

54. Then, have Interpol pick him up wherever he lands!

[Uncle Joe]

55. Gaddafi; get out now, while the getting is good.

Thanks for the thread, dipsydoodle.

[pampango]

57. Can the International Criminal Court still go after him without Libyan initiation?

Or would the ICC have to be part of any deal linking Gaddafi's departure with a decision not to prosecute?

[dipsydoodle]

59. They wouldn't have any evidence

.

[joshcryer]

60. Why wouldn't they have evidence?

There's nothing precluding individual citizens from perusing it and providing the evidence.

[pampango]

61. To answer my own question - yes it can; and did with Darfur/Sudan.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201103080687.html

Last Saturday, 26 February 2011, the United Nations (UN) Security Council unanimously passed Resolution 1970 (2011), referring the `situation` in Libya to the International Criminal Court (ICC).

This is only the second time that the Security Council has used its discretion under the ICC's Rome Statute to refer a matter to the Court for possible prosecution. The first referral, under Resolution 1593 (2005), was made in respect of the situation in Darfur, which led to an arrest warrant being issued for Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide (he remains at large).

All three African members of the Security Council – Gabon, Nigeria and South Africa – supported the referral, notwithstanding ongoing tensions between African states and the Court over the Darfur and Kenyan investigations. Notably, Resolution 1970 made explicit reference to article 16 of the Rome Statute, which allows the Security Council to defer an investigation by the Court in order to maintain international peace and security.

Seems that the ICC can go forward without input from Libya, but the Security Council can also "defer an investigation by the Court in order to maintain international peace and security" which makes it sound like a deal allowing Gaddafi to avoid prosecution might be possible if it involves the Security Council, too.

[EFerrari]

62. To have standing at the ICC, the crime needs to occur

in a country that is a signor or to a citizen of a country who is.

[dipsydoodle]

64. When the ICC made their announcement

they also made mention of the possibility of charges against the rebels in connection with their use of arms.