'Basic standards' - Obama stands by Manning treatment

[kpete]

Source: Politico

President Obama told reporters on Friday that he’s been assured by the Pentagon that its treatment of the private charged with giving information to WikiLeaks is “appropriate.”

Obama declined to “go into details” about the detention of Private Bradley Manning but said that he “actually asked the Pentagon whether or not the procedures that have been taken in terms of his confinement are appropriate and are meeting our basic standards.”

“They assured me that they are,” Obama said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0311/basic_standards_a8459d19-f99b-45ae-a3c1-7ba70e3eebab.html

[arcane1]

1. Our "basic standards" sank like a stone over the past decade

making this "assurance" not very assuring at all.

[montanacowboy]

2. And This Democrats Is Your President

"appropriate"

I cannot write what I want to I might get sent to an "appropriate" place

[Drale]

3. Its very possible the Pentagon is lying to the President

and unfortunately President Obama seems very naive and tends to believe what he's told.

[montanacowboy]

5. Oh..the Big Bad Pentagon is

lying to our poor little naive President...

[Joey Liberal]

30. Well, they tried Psy-Ops on our Senators

I don't trust the Pentagon either.....

[No Elephants]

82. Were our Senators aware of it? Obama is aware he is taking their word for it--or saying he does.

" I don't trust the Pentagon either..... "


If Obama trusts the Pentagon, is he less wise than you are? If he is less wise than you are, should he really be "the most powerful person in the world?"

If he is wise enough not to trust the Pentagon, isn't he being deceptive when he tells America Pentagoners have "assured" him?
Would their words "assure" you?

[arcane1]

6. A phrase comes to mind...

"plausible denial"

[emilyg]

13. Fail.

[tblue37]

17. He can read. The information is available, and even though he is busy, he ahs a bunch of aides

who check all sorts of news sources and make sure he gets important information. I guarantee he even gets info from this site.

[Throd]

25. Ummm...Well, If I know about it, then the President probably...oh, never mind.

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Not buying it

This is Nixon-era "plausible deniability"

[Demeter]

61. Coupled with Upton Sinclair's Pithy Observation:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/quote-4?subject=Understanding&s2=Understanding#ixzz1GPTuwscU

[glinda]

44. Actually I have thought that on more than one occasion with things.

[EFerrari]

48. Oh, please. n/t

[roguevalley]

52. children are naive. Presidents of the United States with HUGE

educational and professional attainments and a bigger than usual understanding of THE LAW aren't. They aren't. God, how old is he? Ten?

[_ed_]

65. Really?

The former head of the Harvard Law Review is too fucking stupid to know the Pentagon is lying to him? Please... if you're just going to reflexively defend Obama no matter what he does, then just say that. Don't try such absurd excuses.

[No Elephants]

80. If what you say is so, he's too naive to be President,, whiich I simply do not believe.

[Boswell]

4. you are the friggin CoC

COMMAND DAMMIT!

[Kelvin Mace]

42. CoC?

"Call of Cthulhu"?

I think the abbreviation you are looking for is "CINC", for "Commander in Chief"

:)

[Boswell]

55. sorry, meant CiC

Commander in Chief ya know

[Kelvin Mace]

57. I know

just a little levity for levity's sake.

[hifiguy]

7. All I can say is

:puke:

[bemildred]

8. He is such a timid fellow.

"assured by the Pentagon".

He is the CIC, he needs to give some orders, and then have his personal minions check they are carried out.

[tblue37]

19. Perhaps he did, and we are seeing the results. nt

[bemildred]

21. Such a cheerful idea. nt

[saras]

27. I think someone did, but not him

[earthside]

9. Ahem.

If we don't talk about this, it is not happening.

[kpete]

10. thank you

"basic standards"

says it all
this is NOT my America,
(even with my heightened imagination)
kpete

[CoffeeCat]

11. Oh please! Like Obama has an control over this situation.

The military, the Pentagon, the CIA and other assorted masters of evil control the
Bradley Manning situation. All the President can do is speak in broad, patriotic
generalizations, because he knows damn well--they're handling it--without Obama's
advice or blessing.

The sooner we all understand that the neocon corporatists control our government--and
that this President is pretty much powerless--the sooner we're facing reality.

[kpete]

14. and what you say

means I need to SHUT UP & GET WITH THE PROGRAM

????????????????????????????????????????????

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CoffeeCat]

18. No, that's not what I meant at all...

I'm just pointing out that we no longer have a democracy.

The last messages I would send to you, are to shut up and get with program. I'm certainly
not doing those things! :)

[kpete]

22. then sorry

i have a horrible cold today (not an excuse)
but it does make me cranky and quick to lash out...

accept my apology,
and peace,
kpete

[msongs]

15. his silence = agreement nt

[kpete]

16. exactly!

peace,
kpete

[tpsbmam]

24. He's the Commander in Chief! He damn well does have control over the situation.

If he WANTED to, he could stop it in a nanosecond. He clearly doesn't want to.

[Psephos]

37. +10 n/t

[ixion]

38. He is the CiC

so you can be sure that he is responsible, ultimately.

[glinda]

45. That is true. It all has to be dismantled. Obama has little power.

[grahamhgreen]

50. Really! Presidents have no power as commander in cheif of the armed forces! Duh!

[_ed_]

66. Oh! Poor, powerless, naiive President Obama!

If only he had some position of power, say, like an executive leadership position that might possibly oversee the Pentagon and the military. If only Obama had some power!

[fascisthunter]

76. you have got to be blind

[No Elephants]

81. "this President is pretty much powerless" LOL

[Kip Humphrey]

12. Sickening.

[Solly Mack]

20. K&R

[faz]

23. I don't think this Obama is the real Obama we elected

This could be just a programmed right-wing robot.

[zalinda]

26. Yup, he's the one

Most people just couldn't look past the historic election of a black man. I did my homework before the election, I knew exactly what kind of man he was/is. The key for me, was his big fat lie to the citizens of Illinois, saying he wouldn't run for President in his first term, if they elected him State Senator. No sooner had he been sworn in, the campaigning for President began. At least Hillary kept her word, and I admire her for that.

zalinda

[timo]

29. I commend you!!

so few people here will admit that the whole damn thing was based on a lie!!

[jkappy]

31. Like the robot being programed for seniors and children

to keep them company... Obama the robot is designed to keep us citizens pacified, the voice, the manner, the attitude got him selected.

[western mass]

51. The "real" Obama has been obvious for some time now

But, like Fox Mulder, liberals just "want to believe."

[pmorlan1]

28. Shame on YOU, Mr. President

This just makes me so angry that I can't even post what I want to say because my comment would be deleted.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[jkappy]

32. Yes, this is the 19th last straw--THE FINAL ONE n/t

[countmyvote4real]

33. I don't think I can support this guy anymore.

This difference between the alternative gets slighter every day.

[glinda]

46. I will not vote REpug. We need to look hard elsewhere though. We also need a takeover.

[BlueIris]

34. Gross.

What an embarrassment.

[DeSwiss]

35. Assured you, did they?

So humiliating this young man by making him get naked in his cell each night is deemed "appropriate" by you and the military, and you go along with this? I see. I suppose you don't have much choice, do you? I mean it's not like you have any real power over the military or anything, right? I mean, who are you? Right? You're just one guy trying to do the best he can in some bad circumstances. Okay? Geeze, people need to lighten up!

Well then, there you have it. They assured you and now you've assured us. And so everyone's been assured. How reassuring.

- ("...you know I hear the President's very popular among liberals.") Well I guess this is our cue to just move along now. There's nothing to see here because we've been assured everything's really okay........

K&R

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." ~H.L. Mencken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le9y22XsXy4&feature=feedu">We-Must-Shift-The-Paradigm

[highplainsdem]

36. Disgusting.

[DeSwiss]

39. People of conscience need to.....

- Torture is torture no matter who is doing it........









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le9y22XsXy4&feature=feedu">We-Must-Shift-The-Paradigm

[Kelvin Mace]

40. And people get ANGRY with me when

I say I can't vote for Obama in 2012.

[glinda]

47. Well lucky us when we get Christie or someone as President. Ugggh!

[Kelvin Mace]

58. Yeah, sorry, not going to happen

Christie has as much a chance of being president as I do.

[Avant Guardian]

62. So Hope and Change are now the lesser of two evils?

How the fuck did we get to this?

[Kelvin Mace]

70. it came to this

when the change we hoped for turned out to be a continuation of many of Bush's same soulless and evil policies.

[ReggieVeggie]

64. ack!

how many times have we heard this before?? how many in the future?? can't you come up with an actual counter-argument?

[blackspade]

43. Well Obama now owns the Bush era abuse and torture.

His comments are a wonderful exercise in avoiding taking an actual position on prisoner abuse.
It's just like GWB saying 'lawyers said it was legal' about water boarding.

Pathetic.

[midnight]

49. The bulling of Bradley Manning is not acceptable...

[Ichingcarpenter]

53. The National Psychologists for Social Responsibility disagree read our letter

An Open Letter to Robert Gates on Manning sychologists for Social Responsibility

MODs this is an open letter therefore does not violate
Copyright terms



Dear Mr. Secretary:
President Obama cc

Psychologists for Social Responsibility (PsySR) remains deeply concerned about the solitary confinement conditions under which PFC Bradley Manning is being held at the Quantico Marine Corps Base in Virginia. When we wrote you on January 3, 2011, we warned of the severely deleterious effects on the psychological wellbeing of those subjected to solitary confinement. We also expressed alarm over PFC Manning's subjection to cruel and potentially harmful treatment during this lengthy pre-trial period when he has not been convicted of any crime and is presumed innocent by our Constitution and justice system.

We write you again today because news reports, including those in the New York Times, indicate that PFC Manning's conditions of confinement have recently become even more severe. According to these reports, which quote officials in charge of PFC Manning's care, PFC Manning is now being deprived of his clothes at night and is forced to stand naked for inspection in the morning. This is apparently being justified as a "precautionary measure" to prevent PFC Manning from injuring himself.

As an organization of psychologists and other mental health practitioners – many of whose members have worked in mental hospitals, the criminal justice system, and with veterans – PsySR can state unequivocally that removal of clothing is not an accepted or reasonable procedure for avoiding self-injury.

There is no publicly available information suggesting that PFC Manning is at heightened risk of self-harm. However, if this is a real concern of the military officials, it is imperative to recognize that forced nakedness (and solitary confinement) is designed to induce helplessness, humiliation, and shame – all of which are potential risk factors that increase the possibility of self-harm. We note that forced nakedness is so disturbing that it is banned for use by military interrogators in the 2006 Army Field Manual.

We are also concerned that the confinement conditions and treatment experienced by PFC Manning may interfere with the right to a fair trial. Literature on the harmful psychological consequences associated with the abuse to which PFC Manning is being subjected suggests that his ability to assist in his own defense may be compromised.

Our country and the entire world were shocked by the pictures of Iraqi detainees being kept naked at Abu Ghraib. PFC Manning's treatment, because of its needless and destructive cruelty, also shocks the conscience. Mr. Secretary, Psychologists for Social Responsibility calls upon you to rectify the inhumane and harmful treatment of PFC Bradley Manning immediately. Given your purported concern regarding PFC Manning's suicidality, we also urge you to release him from solitary confinement as soon as possible as a first step in addressing his mental health needs.

We are also providing a copy of this letter to President Obama, as he and his administration bear the ultimate responsibility for PFC Manning's treatment.
Sincerely,

Stephen Soldz, Ph.D.,
President, Psychologists for Social Responsibility

Trudy Bond, Ph.D.,
Psychologists for Social Responsibility Steering Committee

For the Psychologists for Social Responsibility Steering Committee


CARE TO DISCUSS THIS IN YOUR NATIONAL NEWS CONFERENCE
MR. CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR?

[plumbob]

74. Thank you. Professional, informed opinion.

The treatment of Bradley Manning is a disgrace. His actions show how easily subverted national security measures are. He needs to be given a medal, and everyone involved in the design of procedures, hardware, software, and protocols needs to be stripped of their official positions all the way up to the food chain to at least the Secretary of Defense, and charged with treason, leaving the country defenseless against malign attack, as demonstrated by this action of no important consequence, except to display those weaknesses, either due to incompetence or design.

Then while Mr. Manning is enjoying his well-deserved accolades, the convicted can be variously hanged or imprisoned as the legal system may require.

[Marthe48]

54. My email to Pres. Obama

REGARDING THE TORTURE OF BRADLEY MANNING:

I watched part of your presentation about bullying. I thought, well, why don’t you do something about the Republicans bullying the unions in Wisconsin? Then yesterday, I read that the Head of Quantico has ordered Bradley Manning stripped naked and made to stand naked during the morning inspection. Today, I read that you were assured that this is ok. HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS IS OK? HOW CAN YOU AGREE WITH THE PENTAGON THIS IS APPROPRIATE BASIC STANDARDS? You want bullying stopped, but you’re ok with keeping somebody in jail, untried, naked, and isolated, and even taking away his glasses, for God’s sake? I can’t stand this. I pray every night for the tortured of the world, and how bad is it, when I include people that my own country is torturing? You had a chance to make a big change, to lead us away from torture, and you chose not to. I hope you do not say anything else about bullying, because it is meaningless coming from you.
**************************************************************

I have tried to support President Obama, but I am at the breaking point. From union-busting in Wisconsin, and my state of Ohio, to Bradley Manning, to Guantanimo staying open, and people detained forever with no trial, and staying in Iraq and Afghanistan, just continuing all of the sewage that Bush spewed across our country, I don't know that I can support him just because he is the Democratic choice. He promised change, over and over and over. Banning torture should have been job 1, day 1.

[treestar]

56. Has anyone previously been treated like this?

My question is, did we care?

why are we suddenly so interested in military brig procedures and so sure we know all about it?

Has anyone previously been arrested for passing on classified information? Did we object then?

[Avant Guardian]

60. Abu Ghraib?

[treestar]

71. Show where that was the same

People were prosecuted for what they did there.

This is part of military detention.

[EFerrari]

83. Wait -- you aren't, can't be claiming, that what happened at Abu Graib was justified?

Right?

[Avant Guardian]

59. I believe 'basic standards' were altered during the Bush presidency

He included torture within those 'standards.'

[smoking357]

63. Obama Seems Less and Less Like the President He Said He Would Be

Obama Seems Less and Less Like the President He Said He Would Be.

[Vidar]

67. Keep going, Obama. Shrub is still more of a terrorist than you are,

but at least you're gaining on him.

[sendero]

68. At least George fucking Bush....

.... had a god damned spine, more than I can say for this TOADIE.

[Auntie Bush]

69. Would that be the first time the Pentagon lied to the president?

They assured him Manning was suicidal...and he believed it. Is he naive?

[xxqqqzme]

72. He asked?

What the hell did he expect them to say? 'Why no - Mannings' treatment is highly inappropriate and is violating all basic standards?




Was a reluctant supporter but I thought, at least he'll be a leader. Boy, was I wrong on that count.

[ProgressIn2008]

73. Obama owns this. This is on him, as much as crimes were on Bush. Disgusting. nt

[fascisthunter]

75. well, he can stand without me then

[nalnn]

77. Thanks

Thanks for clarifying Mr. President.

[Marthe48]

78. Should we send new unused underwear to the White House?

No dirty ones, or you could get busted for something I'm sure. If I were Pres. Obama, I sure wouldn't want to lose supporters because of a pair of underwear! Or maybe he is thinking, what's the big deal, its only a pair of underwear?

[lovuian]

79. It is a sad day that Obama has joined the Torture President

list...Obama and Clinton Bush and Cheney

and its so FUTILE!!! and STUPID

[No Elephants]

84. Maybe the Pentagon and Obama found a loophole.

"Allegations of ill-treatment in Abu Ghraib and elsewhere include acts which fall clearly within the definition of torture under Article 1 of the Convention.* Other forms of ill-treatment violate the prohibition against cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment under Article 16 and may amount to torture when imposed over a prolonged period or used in combination, which was often the case. Reported methods of torture and other ill-treatment include prolonged incommunicado detention; "disappearances"; beatings; death threats; threats of torture; electric shocks; forcing shackled detainees into painful stress positions; sexual humiliation; threats of rape; forced nudity; exposure to extreme heat or cold; denial of food or water; immersion in water; use of dogs to inspire fear; racial and religious insults; sensory deprivation techniques such as hooding and blindfolding, sleep deprivation, exposure to loud music and prolonged isolation.

Many of the measures taken were specifically for the purposes of interrogation, or to "soften up" detainees for interrogation, as found by several official inquiries. Government memoranda also authorized techniques specifically to break down "high value detainees" during interrogation.

Conditions of detention such as those in Guantánamo, specifically prolonged isolation and indefinite detention, have been part of the ill-treatment of detainees and themselves amount to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment."



UAMNESTY INTERNATIONAL'S SUPPLEMENTARY BRIEFING TO THE UN COMMITTEE AGAINST TORTURE http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGAMR510612006

* UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment US beame a pary under--wait for it--St.Ronnie


Maybe, if you keep switching techniques, none of them is "prolonged?"