NYT: Second-Guessing of Bush Now Extends to Convention Site

[Newsjock]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/10/nyregion/10convention.html

When the Republican Party chose New York City as the site of its 2004 nominating convention, the symbolism was apparent: the G.O.P. would be rallying around its nominee in the city that had come to embody the nation's resolve in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, a place where President Bush once stood on a pile of debris at ground zero, rallying the nation to unite in the war on terror.

But then came Richard A. Clarke, the 9/11 commission and a rising insurgency in Iraq. Now, as the administration faces increasing scrutiny of its handling of pre-9/11 terror threats and the wisdom of extending the war on terrorism into Iraq, the question has emerged whether New York is the best place for the Republicans to be gathering this summer.

... But while some Republican leaders still express confidence about staging the convention in New York, a few very tough weeks in which the president's former counterterrorism adviser has questioned the administration's handling of the Qaeda threat and dozens of Americans have died in Iraq have made other strategists nervous. They say they fear it could underscore any second-guessing of the president on national security issues.

"The premise for coming to New York is no longer valid," said Roger Stone, a longtime Republican political strategist who supports President Bush but is also known as a maverick who at times has opposed Republican candidates. "Karl Rove's master stroke idea may turn out to be an unmitigated disaster. It has the potential to highlight an issue that may be a negative by the time he gets to the convention."

more

[NMDemDist2]

1. we can only hope edit to add link to Nation article

"The premise for coming to New York is no longer valid," said Roger Stone, a longtime Republican political strategist who supports President Bush but is also known as a maverick who at times has opposed Republican candidates. "Karl Rove's master stroke idea may turn out to be an unmitigated disaster. It has the potential to highlight an issue that may be a negative by the time he gets to the convention."

from the Nation last week:

The Bush Administration has treated New York City like a battered wife who still gets displayed for photo-ops and state dinners. George Bush and the Republicans who control both houses of Congress have starved New York for three years with fiscal policies that alternate between abuse and neglect. But now Bush will stage his renomination convention in the city he has used and abused--sticking his finger in our eye and exploiting our bereavement. This August, Karl Rove, the kitschy guru of political theater, will try to convert the crematorium of Ground Zero into a re-election billboard.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040419&s=newfield

[belle]

17. "Battered wife," huh.

Suddenly paging Farrah Fawcett and "The Burning Bed." Lorena Bobbitt, too...

[nolabels]

46. Making light of one of the biggest crimes that ever took place

The fact of the matter, most criminals have this unshakable need to return to scene of the crime and that is why they are coming.

Give them the HELL they gave you NEW YORK, they more than deserve it.

[central scrutinizer]

48. "hoist on their own petard"

Word History: The French used pétard, “a loud discharge of intestinal gas,” for a kind of infernal engine for blasting through the gates of a city. “To be hoist by one's own petard,” a now proverbial phrase apparently originating with Shakespeare's Hamlet (around 1604) not long after the word entered English (around 1598), means “to blow oneself up with one's own bomb, be undone by one's own devices.” The French noun pet, “fart,” developed regularly from the Latin noun pditum, from the Indo-European root *pezd-, “fart.”


“Marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For tis the sport to have the
engineer Hoist with his own petard.”

God, I love Shakespeare.

[alittlelark]

2. "unmitigated disaster" ? Perhaps

Perhaps instead we can mitigate the damage by protesting him in such #'s that all 5 boroughs are filled.

[amandabeech]

10. Yes, the one led by the Jersey Girls

from the World Trade Center site all the way to the Garden.

And the one led by the loved ones of all non-U.S. coalition forces and kidnapping victims from the U.N. across town to the Garden.

And the one led by family and friends of U.S. service men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice from the naval vessels moored north of the Chelsea Piers down to the Garden.

I hope that everyone keeps a cool head, including New York's finest and bravest.

[VolcanoJen]

32. Eloquently said, amandabeech.

Cheers! :-)

[amandabeech]

52. Thank you. n/t

[bfusco]

41. Do you have any information

on dates and times for these marches? I live 80 minutes away from NYC and plan to make a statement of these criminals exploiting exploiting the tragedy of NYC. Agree that it need to make a strong visible statement but maintain cool and orderly. Rioting and destruction only plays into the hands of the Repukes.

[amandabeech]

51. No. I just have an active imagination.

I just imagined such a scene, and have had no connection with any groups proposing to do any of what I wrote. I should have made that clear in my post. Perhaps someone there will be inspired by my flights of fancy.

No violence. No weird stuff. Dress and groom in a very neat, conservative manner. Carry flags and wear flag lapel pins.

You are absolutely correct that rioting and destruction plays into the hands of the Repukes. Perhaps those who are experienced in non-violent marches and passive resistance to aggression should get involved in any march.

I'm a little too young to have been actively involved in the civil rights and anti-Vietnam marches to be of much help. I only watched it all on TV.

[Occulus]

15. That would stop the convention.

I think the beginning of the protests should start before the beginning of the convention. Maybe... just maybe.... if enough people were to show up and stay there, that convention just simply would not happen.

Wouldn't that be a marvel?

[Layman]

43. The Ultimate Gotham Gridlock!

N/T

[SoCalDem]

3. Serves him right.. I say "Bring him on"

It would be so sweeeeet if there were millions in the streets protesting, and they all had to hunker down in their convention center..

And it would be so perfect too, if some really damaging stuff came out that week..

[Skip Intro]

4. They'll change it

and they'll blame it on "chatter"

and they'll look even more like the sad excuses for leaders that they are

cowards

a self-proclaimed king afraid of the people he strives to rule

[aquart]

5. Ah, the genius Rove.

It's wrong of me to hope he never works again.

[murielm99]

11. Lately, nothing Rove does seems to work.

Is he getting senile? One can only hope!

[JoFerret]

36. But Nanny Hughes is back

She has a better ear for actual people and how things play than this tone deaf and arrogant bunch.

[Raenelle]

47. He's been the un-genius ever since we stopped him hacking our computers

[calimary]

72. No it's NOT!

I hope he never works again, either. Except maybe on some rock pile while doing hard time.

That contact info again... for First Thing Monday Morning:

Please note, here, The World's Greatest Lists of Media Contacts - not one but TWO of 'em - in the following thread:

LINK:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1380003

[K8-EEE]

bwa ha ha!! NO LONGER VALID?

WHY NO LONGER VALID FOR THE GOP, HAVE THEY FORGOTTEN 9/11?

WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!! Everything, but EVERYTHING is just a photo op to them, even the NYC skyline. Bastards.

[truthisfreedom]

6. karl rove's "stay on message" is turning into a tired old worthless

approach! bushco is collapsing like a house of cards.

i'd say it's only days to another terror attack. it's the only thing karl can arrange that will even begin to distract the public.

[aquart]

8. Yeah, but................Spain.

It's really wonderful how people keep bringing that up and also how bad it will look if the war on Iraq kept our government from protecting us here at home.

So I'm not nearly as fearful of a terrorist attack here as I was. No indeedy. Spain. God bless them all.

[jobycom]

19. Another attack, and

Bush doesn't even finish this term. Despite the polls showing Bush still with an above 40 approval rating, he's sliding. People are in limbo now about what to think. There are still troops to support, and they aren't sure who to trust.

If we get hit again, they'll know what to think. All questions will be answered, and all of these current accusations will be accepted.

Then the race might really be between Kerry and Nader. Oh, and Roy Moore.

And can you imagine what would happen if the attack came at the convention because Bush was in NY? His photo op is a grand opportunity to make a global impact for the terrorists. Bush and Rove should be ashamed, but we know they aren't.

[NMDemDist2]

59. not sure about that joby, may give them a boost

they can show that we are at war and we need bush to "stay the course" and "keep a firm resolve" it's a horrible thought of any new attacks on civilians here or anywhere, but it may indeed work in favor of the republicans. remember after 9/11 the country united behind the man in the oval office.

[jobycom]

70. The country didn't know better then. It was stunned

Why it was stunned, I'm not sure, since Clinton had been warning that something like that would happen, but people didn't know what to do. They saw an outside attack, they didn't know where it came from, they rallied behind the government (not behind Bush) for protection. Bush turned that to his favor, used it politically, and distracted people from asking how it could have happened.

But not now. The questions have already been raised. People have heard that Bush failed them. They don't accept it yet, but they will. If we get hit again, people won't have to ask who hit us-- they'll know, roughly, who it was. The big question this time will be how did they do it again? Why couldn't we stop them? It will prove Bush can't protect them.

I'm not saying we wouldn't get even more insane, want even more blood shed somewhere. But it would destroy the belief that Bush saved us. And take that away, Bush has nothing.

[librechik]

7. whores

craven delusional greedy freaks

once they can no longer profit from 9/11 they want to drop it like a hot potato.

[aquart]

9. Have you ever held a hot potato?

It smarts.

[MonicaR]

14. Well,

So much for the Republinazi torchlight parade to Ground Zero.

[countmyvote4real]

12. WTF? NYC doesn't get the promised 9/11 relief and now we don't

get a plastic turkey in the form of the RNC?

"If you can make it there, you'll make it anywhere."

Or you'll have to find a smaller pond with compatible scum.

[neverforget]

13. Bush was going to use 9/11 to get (re)elected but now he may be

burned by 9/11. Serves him right!

[Dover]

16. Bush and the GOP are an unmitigated disaster. Wherever they go

there they are. No getting away from it.

[Dover]

18. NEW GOP CONVENTION LOCATION.......Cheney's Bunker

It's already sunk, so nowhere to go but up.

[SoCalDem]

20. or... Crawford..

They can have it out under the stars..with barbeque... W loves the smell of manure at sunset..

[Dover]

22. ....or Mars. Same difference. Rocks are rocks....

With all the illicit corporate GOP donations, they can afford to go.
Now getting BACK is another matter...

[RFKHumphreyObama]

39. No believe me..if they go up there

And Haliburton and all the other big business companies aligned with the GOP could get the contracts for exploiting the natural resources there before anyone else does.

I think that is why Uncle Dick was touting a future mission to Mars

[amandabeech]

54. Or that Congressional bug-out site

under the Greenbriar resort in where, N. Carolina? Virginia?

[Buns_of_Fire]

67. West Virginia.

It had those nice bombproof doors that could be sealed from the inside.

This, of course, while America (the real America) is busily sealing them from the outside.

I would think of it as burying toxic waste.

[amandabeech]

69. I love it! Waste Management, here they come! n/t

[fearnobush]

21. More than a million in the streets when the Bush team meets!

Be There!!!

<http://www.notinourname.net/rnc/>
<http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=1810>

[tridim]

23. Is a NYC pull-out even possible? Legally?

I'm guessing the contracts have long been signed. If they pull the convention, vendors will surely sue their pants off.

The GOP is absolutely screwed. :D

[SoCalDem]

24. He's got about 200 million bucks.. let HIM pay for it..

:)

[truthisfreedom]

25. bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

bushco is so hosed...

[worldgonekrazy]

65. Many of us predicted this back when we heard NYC would be the site

There was talks of MASSIVE protests, and I still hope that it happens (if the Bush Admin even survives that long), BUT now it isn't nearly as necessary because the public will be skeptical already. Stupid fucking Rove. You pushed too far you arrogant evil son of a bitch!

[PROGRESSIVE1]

26. Ohhhhhhhhh, I feel so NOT sorry for *!

[Leilani]

27. I believe Roger Stone was the operative

who worked for Al Sharpton & raised money for him.

[slinkerwink]

28. hahahahaha! thank you, richard clarke!!!!

[scottxyz]

29. Hallelujah!

They shall not pass!

[scottxyz]

30. If they come,

turn the delegates away at the doors.

Tell them Choicepoint invalidated them.

[stepnw1f]

31. Implosion

This Admin appears to be collapsing on its own weight. The "Dream Team would only shine for 5 minutes of fame.

Silently, the lights dim out, dragging the closest bodies with it into an oblivion.

Cheers!

[Florida_Geek]

33. I have said it before I see a bad case of

Blue Flu just when the GOP need cops.

* have fucked the NYC cops and firemen so much, they may not be there for him when he needs them.

[opihimoimoi]

34. They will change their minds and go to Texas where it will be a ###

[amandabeech]

55. Yes, but if the firemen "blue-out" the Repukes

will blame it on Kerry.

[qanda]

35. Rove will have Osama Bin Laden's head on a platter

To serve up to the American people-- you can be sure of that.

[dbt]

37. What a RICH headline! Second-guessing of bu$h!

Once upon a time, there was a man who was actually elected President of the United States of America. He wanted to do Good Things for his country, but every time he tried to do so, he was second-guessed. Whenever the second-guessers couldn't find any actual evil that the Elected Man had done, they would talk about his dick. It became amusing for the peasants to play the game of second-guess/evil/dick.

The second-guessing went on for eight interesting years until, one dark December day, five Traitorous Judges decided that presidents didn't need to be elected anymore. So a very Small Man was installed in the White House--and the second-guessing suddenly stopped! Not a peep was heard through the Kingdom. No more second-guessing! Hallefalluja!

With the second-guessing replaced by respectful silence, the Very Small Man was free to go about the business of stealing the surplus, fucking the peasants, giving much treasure to his friends and letting some Very Bad People blow up New York City. To punish those Very Bad People, the Very Small Man sent his mighty army into a tiny and miserable nation which had NOT blown up New York City. By doing this, he was able to give even MORE treasure to his friends--and the grandchildren of the peasants would have to pay for it all!

And throughout the land, not a word of second-guessing was heard. The peasants gathered around their bonfires and chanted, "Support our President," "Support our Troops," and "United we stand!"

Unfortunately, there was a small and noisy band of Bad Liberals who could not abide the fact that the Very Small Man had not been elected. They clung to their antiquated notions that stealing was wrong and greed was not good. "We must second-guess the King, for he is a Lying Sack of Shit!" they cried. And the crowds pelted them with flags and yellow ribbons.

Much time passed, and the Bad Liberals simply would not STFU. "The clothes have no Emperor!" they cried. And the little children began to marvel, for it was true. As the Elected Man's Wife had tried to point out some years before, there was no there there.

Then came the springtime of the Year Of Elections and a handful of the Scribes began to wonder if the children were on to something. Although they were very afraid, they decided that just one little peek into the closet of the Very Small Man couldn't hurt. They were shocked--shocked, I tell you--to discover that all the fine clothes in the closet were, indeed, manufactured from Whole Cloth. And they also smelled mightily of the fecal deposits of the male bovine.

So the Scribes began to look at every third thing that the Very Small Man had done since he was Not Elected and they became horrified. . The Very Small Man was not only going to fuck the country, he was going to fuck the entire planet--and this was most passing strange, for he possessed No Dick! Indeed, it was the other way round! The Very Small Man was controlled by an evil wizard whose name was actually Dick!

The moral of the story? It doesn't matter whether you pay too much attention to a Dick or too little. You're fucked either way.

Sleep tight,
:evilgrin:
dbt

[lostnfound]

40. & it's not '2nd-guessing' when Boss reviews performance - WE ARE the boss!

which is what the powers-that-be and the public have generally forgotten.

The other day I heard a caller after the Pacifica 9-11 Rice talk comment on how much 2nd guessing was going on about Iraq etc.

It's not 2nd guessing when, after a hired-manager of a company has absconded with the funds and run the company into the ground, the owners come back and do the 'postmortem' to find out what the heck happened and how.

Fine, no 2nd guessing. We need prosecution instead.

[spooked]

42. you are brilliant, dbt!

I don't have much time to read every word posted here, but I read your post twice, and each time it restored some sense of sanity in the pit of my stomach. Thank you Thank you Thank you

Also makes me think that perhaps we SHOULD ask the children what they think about this pResident and his wars...out of the mouth of babes...might wake some people up!

[susu369]

45. Perfect, dbt

that is a keeper - printing it now.

[gristy]

60. Great piece, dbt.

Request permission to pass on to my email list, sir!

[buycitgo]

68. same here! made me laugh/cry

I really think I'll be leaving for New Zealand if this insane clown posse steals it again

now, for something completely different

[NNN0LHI]

38. They are thinking about the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago n/t

[amandabeech]

57. Do New York's finest have those little blue helmets?

I remember watching that on TV. What an absolute disaster.

Republicans are so uptight and programmed that it's hard to imagine what they would do if their scripts and agendas became useless.

Democrats can usually hang a little more loose and are more comfortable with improv, IMHO.

[playahata1]

64. Any plans for a counter-convention?

Complete with improv, street theater, agit-prop, the way the Yippies and others did in '68?

[amandabeech]

66. Not that I know of.

Remember, the chaos in Chicago hurt Hubert Humphrey and the Democratic Party. That's not something that should happen to Kerry.

The Yippie stuff would be fun so long as its peaceful, but IMHO it is important to get ordinary Americans to see themselves in the protesters. Most people these days don't see themselves as Yippies.

Protests might be the most effective, IMHO, if they can show the TV viewer that it is patriotic and legitimate to oppose Bush and the war. Show prospective Kerry voters protesters who look and talk like ordinary Americans, and they may become braver and more engaged.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

[0007]

44. The GOP should hire Leona Hemsley to sing "God Bless America"

to kick off this wonderful show that the GOP has planned.

Perhaps Martha Stewart could lend a hand to the "Queen of Mean?"

[nodehopper]

49. oh, I am so torn...they are DESPISED here

but on the other hand, if they held the convention here, shamelessly pimping their agenda at Ground Zero, everyone would know how much they are despised here.

Then again, our whorish press would probably downplay the number of protesters to "several thousand."

[yltlatl]

50. I can't wait for those porkers

to come to NYC. The mainstream keep whining about how "polarized" the atmosphere is, but my feeling is that this is nothing: things have to get a whole lot more polarized than this for any serious changes to take place. I think the current atmosphere is probably nothing to what it was in the late 60s (any hippy DUers wanna back me up/shoot me down on this?). I sincerely hope that the RNC in New York will kick the polarization up a notch and a half.

[watercolors]

53. More likely they will choose Fl

probably Tampa.

[osaMABUSh]

56. Turns out NYC is perfect for *'s convention.....for the Dems

This whole "let's have the Convention in NYC around Sept. 11th" strategy has played right into our hands.

Who would have thunk? (A few DUers, I imagine)

This could be a first where the nominee instead of getting a bump in the polls actually drops because of his convnetion.

[Beetwasher]

58. They Will Rue The Day They Made That Idiotic Decision: We NY'ers

will be peaceful but POWERFUL in our condemnation of these criminals. They have a lot of gall coming and here, and we will make sure they know it. Unmitigated disaster is an understatement. BRING IT ON!

[kskiska]

61. Remember Tom DeLay's cruise ship idea?

If they'd adopted that plan the Ship of Fools could have just hoisted anchor and set off for Orlando, maybe.

[bfusco]

71. fitting

That would be a fitting scenario, especially considering they are going to be nominating Goofy as their parties choice to run for president.

[John_H]

62. Every Dem should be screaming about the site and timing to high heaven

so at least, when the time comes, people will look at the proceedings with least a partially skeptical eye.

[Barrett808]

63. I'm bringing my *mother* to the protest in NYC

She has never been to a protest in her life. But she has come to despise the Bush mafia along with millions of other patriotic Americans.