National Review editor defends Bradley Manning

[kpete]

Source: Raw Story

National Review editor defends Bradley Manning

By David Edwards
Wednesday, March 16th, 2011 -- 10:44 am


...................

An editor at the conservative National Review magazine is speaking out on behalf of Manning, the Army private accused of leaking U.S. State Department cables to WikiLeaks.

Robert VerBruggen declared Tuesday that there was "no excuse" for subjecting Manning, who has not been convicted of a crime, to harsh conditions.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/print/262195

.............

"He has yet to be convicted of a crime -- and, regardless, prisons should avoid inflicting arbitrary and pointless miseries on their charges," VerBruggen wrote.

"On at least two and possibly three occasions, prison officials have used their discretion to subject Manning to harsher procedures than would normally be used under the brig’s policies. Manning’s treatment may well be legal, as the general counsels of the Departments of Defense and of the Navy found — the policies in question are just guidelines — but that doesn’t make it right," he added.

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/16/national-review-editor-defends-bradley-manning/

[xchrom]

1. recommend

[joeybee12]

2. Effing amazing that Obama is to the right of these cretins now...knr

[avaistheone1]

4. Gosh no!

Obama is a centrist.

:sarcasm:

[No Elephants]

13. And a "pragmatic" centrist, to boot.

[Frisbee]

5. My very first though too....

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" seems more true with each passing day. And yeah, to all you Obama defenders, I know he's no Bush, but he's nothing to be proud of either.

[Le Taz Hot]

36. +1

Even National Review gets it.

[grahamhgreen]

3. K&R

[leftynyc]

6. If you think they give a shit about

Manning you're delusional. They'll take any position that embarasses the President. For the record, I don't think making somebody sleep naked is torture.

[atreides1]

9. We know you don't give a shit

"For the record, I don't think making somebody sleep naked is torture."

You do that a lot, make other people sleep naked?

[leftynyc]

12. I don't work in a prison

Manning is in prison making comments about killing himself - he brought this all on himself. Whining about the consequences will get him nowhere. But feel free to agree with the National Review - they're known for standing up for prisoner rights. :eyes:

[No Elephants]

14. Maybe some research re: UN Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading

Treatment or Punishment would help. (One reason the title is so long is to prevent quibbling over whether something "degrading" is "really" torture or not. And think of nudity in Abu Ghraib.)

Btw, RWers denied waterboarding was torture. Does anything go as long as one's own Party or hero is responsible for it?

I do agree, though, that Rethugs would say anything to embarrass any Dem. Doesn't mean everything they say in that endeavor is wrong, however. Some things Dems do, we damn well should be embarrassed about. Ditto Republicons and their heroes.

[leftynyc]

19. There are plenty of things

I would describe as torture that I'm sure the pukes would say were frat boy stunts. Making somebody sleep naked (especially in the military where there is no privacy) is not torture. I'm not willing to degrade the meaning of torture to score political points.

[Taverner]

23. It may not be torture, but it qualifies as "cruel and unusual punishment"

Which means its illegal

[leftynyc]

26. I disagree

Not cruel or unusual. With your definition, boot camp would be cruel and unusual.

[Taverner]

29. Sleeping naked, in a cold room, handcuffed, without blankets, or a trial or access to a lawyer

That's all OK with you

[leftynyc]

32. Haven't heard about the temp

so I would need a reliable link for that. Do know he had a blanket albeit one that couldn't be torn into strips so he could hang himself. He does obviously have access to a lawyer since this is where we got most of this info from. Plenty of people have to wait for a trial - I'm not crying over one who shit all over his military oath and downloaded secret info and gave it to a attention whore.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dogday]

40. What is wrong with shorts? He can't hang himself with a pair of

shorts. If that is even the case. I am still waiting for them to say he is under a Dr.'s care and he should be on anti-depressants if indeed he is suicidal.

[EFerrari]

25. This expert witness in forensic cases disagrees with that assessment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x662182

It's interesting. In all the years I've followed the issue of torture on this board, I've never seen so many posters concerned about degrading the meaning of the word. I hope that's a sign of renewed interest.

[leftynyc]

27. Perhaps the new

level of what's considered torture is the reason. Sleeping naked? Are you kidding me?

[EFerrari]

31. Forced nudity, sleep disruption, isolation, sensory deprivation,

all torture tactics. Try reading the article. There's nothing "new" about this.

[Taverner]

22. Yeah yeah, Wikileaks is evil, we can't handle the truth, blah blah blah

Does it ever get old? You, know, acting like that?

[leftynyc]

28. What are you babbling about?

Who's talking about Wikileaks? Acting like what? Someone who thinks throwing around the word torture demeans those who actually are tortured?

[Taverner]

30. No its just the typical shit I get from the Anti-Wikileaks crowd

As if a heroic soldier disclosing the corruption around him deserves the death penalty

Please - go join the Republicans. They love that whole "my country right or wrong" shit

[leftynyc]

33. Link to where

I called for manning to get the death penalty. Or an apology. Your choice. It's likely I've been a Dem longer than you've been alive so offering me to join the pukes is infantile (but typical).

[Dollface]

7. Sounds like the ghost of Bill Buckley.

[lovuian]

8. its obvious that there is no excuse but the military

has to come down harsh ...but in reality that is what the military is about Harshness and mind control


It doesn't help the case against Manning

[struggle4progress]

10. On general principal, I prefer to ignore the National Review and its cohorts

[No Elephants]

15. Then why even open this thread?

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. Why wouldn't he? He knows he can play some percentage of the Left as suckers on this

If I were a right winger, I'd start a Bradley Manning defense fund and demand his release everyday, with a ticker. It can pull probably 3% of voters (the usual Naderite margin) off the re-election, which might be enough to swing very close districts. The major invention of the Right since 1965 has been its cunning ability to make the American Left work against itself.

[2banon]

16. There is no "American Left"...

There are Leftists, such as myself. But we're an anomoly in this pathetically corrupt system, propped up by ignorant simpletons, paid functionaries, apthetic, soma induced zombies.

Bradley Manning is a patriot of humanity captured by a fascists state. Critics (no matter which political ideology) speaking out any state and military apparatus that conduct these kinds of actions should be applauded on principle.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

24. Surely you're not suggesting that the Democratic Party has no interest

in civil rights or social justice. Or, maybe you're talking about some other Democratic Party.

[defendandprotect]

17. This TORTURE is directed at making him an incoherent witness -- unless he confesses to what

they want him to confess to --

[DeSwiss]

20. K&R n/t

[Blue_Tires]

21. Low-hanging fruit...Just taking advantage of the story to attack the president

In this same issue of National Review, there is probably a column calling for summary imprisonment of the Wisc. public workers...

[EFerrari]

34. National Review joins the Washington Post, the New York Times,

the Los Angeles Times this week in denouncing the abuse of Bradley Manning. Expect more after Crowley's resignation.

[Steerpike]

37. Well it seems to be a no brainer...

He has been convicted of no crime. So he should not be subject to non judicial punishment. If he is suicidal he should be in a hospital. Of course since he is military they really could do whatever they want to him. Apparently politics allow them this discretion.
If being cold and naked in a room with only a cold hard bed and bright lights does not constitute torture then I must have misread my CIA handbook...

[Bodhi BloodWave]

38. i must have missed some reports

Would you mind pointing me at the areas showing that the rooms are/were cold? Also he is not naked since he got a suicide-proof outfit to wear when sleeping a while back

[Steerpike]

39. well in that case

nevermind...