High radiation level detected 30km from (Fukushima) nuke plant (Outside Japan Gov's exclusion zone)

[Turborama]

Source: NHK

Thursday, March 17, 2011 21:20 (JST)

Japan's science ministry says radiation levels of up to 0.17 millisieverts per hour have been detected about 30 kilometers northwest of the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Experts say exposure to those levels for 6 hours would result in absorption of the maximum level considered safe for 1 year.

The government has instructed residents living within a 20 to 30 kilometer radius of the plant to stay indoors.

The ministry gauged radiation from 9:20 AM to 3:00 PM on Thursday at 28 spots, in areas 20 to 60 kilometers from the plant.

Read more: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/17_38.html

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High radiation found outside Fukushima exclusion zone

Last Updated: 12:22 PM, March 17, 2011

The Japanese military pumped jets of water from special fire trucks into a damaged reactor at the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant Thursday in a desperate bid to bring down temperatures, as high radiation levels were reported outside the evacuation zone.

High radiation levels have been detected 18.6 miles (30 kilometers) from the plant, beyond the 12.4-mile (20-kilometer) zone designated by authorities, broadcaster NHK reported.

The situation at the Fukushima nuclear plant remains "very serious," the International Atomic Energy Agency said Thursday, adding there had been no major deterioration since Wednesday

=snip=

The US urged its citizens to evacuate from a radius of 50 miles from the plant, while Singapore's government advised its citizens to evacuate areas which are within 62 miles (100 kilometers) of the plant.

Full article: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/japanese_trucks_pump_water_into_64E3Sma9ERHrJz6X0Trm1I

[daleo]

1. In about a month that level would accumulate to 100+ mS

Which is the point at which significant cancer risk kicks in, from what I have read.

[mysterysoup]

2. If 1 mS per yr is 'safe' and 1200 causes cancer, what is in between?

Radiation sickness? Your putz falls off? What?

[daleo]

5. There may be no safe limit

Generally danger to health correlates with dosage - that's a standard epidemiological finding, rather like the link between smoking and cancer. At lower levels it can be difficult to make a definitive determination. It took a long time for society to take second hand smoke seriously, as big financial interests were involved. Same thing with the debate on radiation exposure.

[TheWraith]

6. You'd need many thousands of millisieverts to get radiation sickness.

Seriously, 0.17 millisieverts is not "high radiation."

[flamingdem]

19. I think you are incorrect, the workers are getting 3x that and thats a lot

off to double check the numbers but that's what I think they said on the tube.

[TheWraith]

25. I'm not incorrect. The mildest forms of radiation poisoning start at 100 REM.

That's Roentgen Equivalent in Man. 100 REM is 1,000 millisieverts. That much dosage results in a 0 to 5% mortality rate after 30 days.

A radiation dosage that is generally considered to be usually fatal to an otherwise healthy person is 500 REM, which is 5,000 millisieverts.

All these dosages are assuming a relatively short period of exposure, i.e. hours or a few days.

[Electric Monk]

26. That's pretty much, but not quite, what the wikipedia link I posted below says as well

At a quarter of that exposure (250 mSv) "Some people feel nausea and loss of appetite; bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen damaged."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sievert

[CreekDog]

22. you're misleading people, you're only equating "high radiation" with radiation sickness

ignoring all the other things below that level of radiation induced health problems.

[daleo]

24. Cancer can result from much lower exposures

When millions are exposed to radiation, a certain percentage will get cancer, depending on dosage. That's why there are serious concerns about things like widespread mammogram programs - they can cause more cancer deaths than they help prevent. A significant leak from a meltdown would certainly expose a population to an increase in cancers.

[jpak]

31. Chernobyl workers received an average of 76 mSv and had significantly higher leukemia rates

yup

[jpak]

8. yup

n/t

[CLANG]

3. 0.17 millisieverts per hour = 41 Xrays per day per person

Within 6 months at that rate most people would be either dead or dead men walking.

[TheWraith]

7. Um, no.

First off, it doesn't work that way. Second of all, even if you were exposed to the equivalent of 6 months dosage at that level ALL AT ONCE, which is 735 millisieverts, it still wouldn't be enough to give you even the mildest symptoms of radiation poisoning, and definitely not enough to kill you.

[CLANG]

9. That's not the way I understand it, but your welcome to your own opinion.

Unless you can produce a link...

[Electric Monk]

11. wikipedia link

0.17 mSv/hr = 4.08 mSv/day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sievert

Total average radiation dose for Americans: 6.2 mSv/year



So, it's roughly 2/3 the average dose you'd get in a normal year, per day.



edit to add:

4.08 * 365 = 1489.2

Symptoms of acute radiation:
0 – 0.25 Sv (0 - 250 mSv): None
0.25 – 1 Sv (250 - 1000 mSv): Some people feel nausea and loss of appetite; bone marrow, lymph nodes, spleen damaged.
1 – 3 Sv (1000 - 3000 mSv): Mild to severe nausea, loss of appetite, infection; more severe bone marrow, lymph node, spleen damage; recovery probable, not assured.
3 – 6 Sv (3000 - 6000 mSv): Severe nausea, loss of appetite; hemorrhaging, infection, diarrhea, peeling of skin, sterility; death if untreated.
6 – 10 Sv (6000 - 10000 mSv): Above symptoms plus central nervous system impairment; death expected.

[CLANG]

12. So it's not accumulative in any way? Is that what you're saying?

[Electric Monk]

13. I don't know how you got that out of what I posted above. It is cumulative.

nt

[CLANG]

17. OK, so this applies

1 – 3 Sv (1000 - 3000 mSv): Mild to severe nausea, loss of appetite, infection; more severe bone marrow, lymph node, spleen damage; recovery probable, not assured.

Not necessarily dead, or walking dead, but you might wish you were.

[Electric Monk]

18. After about 8 months of exposure to 4 mSv/day, yes. nt

[CLANG]

23. Alright!

:toast:

[TheWraith]

27. Not quite. There is SOME cumulative damage, but it's not the same as a single dose.

People have been known to survive total radiation doses well in excess of 5 sieverts by virtue of those doses being spread out across days or weeks, and no individual dose being serious enough to be fatal. The Goiania incident in Brazi, where an abandoned radiation treatment machine was disassembled and the highly radioactive contents spread around, was noted for this.

[reorg]

16. "recovery probable, not assured"

nice. IOW, starting with a dose as little as 1 Sv, chances are your life is ruined immediately, you don't have to wait for long-term effects.

[TheWraith]

28. The fatality rate for a 1000 millisievert dose is about 0 to 5%.

Generally, it's people who already suffered from some other condition, particularly anything that left them immunocompromised.

[reorg]

29. just being sick forever

and passing on genetic defects is of course a sacrifice you would be willing to make with great joy, I suppose.

[TheWraith]

30. You really clearly don't know anything about the subject you're talking about.

You don't "get sick forever" from a 100 REM dose, and the rate of birth defects is considerably lower than you get from, say, exposure to chemical spills.

[CJvR]

20. Note.

Those are the effects of short term exposure. Absorbing 10 Sv in an hour is certain death, absorbing such a dose over a decade is not.

[reorg]

21. got a link? n/t

[reorg]

15. according to health professionals

You have to expect to get radiation sickness upon absorption of about 500 mSv (0.5 Sievert), says radiation expert Angelika Claußen (former head of International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War (IPPNW) http://www.ippnw-europe.org/)

http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/34/34373/1.html (German)


"People living in two villages near the Chernobyl plant were exposed to, on average, 300 mSv of radiation. The average cumulative exposure for the general population in various affected regions of Belarus, Russia and Ukraine over a 20-year period after the accident is estimated to be between 10 and 30 mSv, according to the Merck Manuals reference publication for health professionals."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/03/15/f-radiation-sickness.html

Many of these people got cancer and died within a few years. Another strong risk is damage to fetuses, starting at very low levels of exposure. Many horribly disfigured babies were born in the region around Chernobyl after the disaster.

[grahamhgreen]

4. Kick

[WheelWalker]

10. Recommend

[roamer65]

14. That's why our NRC said 50 miles.