US Army 'kill team' in Afghanistan posed with photos of murdered civilians

[alp227]

Source: The Guardian

Commanders in Afghanistan are bracing themselves for possible riots and public fury triggered by the publication of "trophy" photographs of US soldiers posing with the dead bodies of defenceless Afghan civilians they killed.

Senior officials at Nato's International Security Assistance Force in Kabul have compared the pictures published by the German news weekly Der Spiegel to the images of US soldiers abusing prisoners in Abu Ghraib in Iraq which sparked waves of anti-US protests around the world.

They fear that the pictures could be even more damaging as they show the aftermath of the deliberate murders of Afghan civilians by a rogue US Stryker tank unit that operated in the southern province of Kandahar last year.

Some of the activities of the self-styled "kill team" are already public, with 12 men currently on trial in Seattle for their role in the killing of three civilians.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/21/us-army-kill-team-afghanistan-posed-pictures-murdered-civilians

[tekisui]

1. Fucking idiots. Bring them home.

[The_Casual_Observer]

16. You want those bastards back here?

[Arrowhead2k1]

34. We deserve them... nt

[plumbob]

49. Yep. After a fair trial, execute them.

No place in my country for this shit.

[FarLeftFist]

115. So execute them for executing 'them'?

No thanks. They can go to prison.

[plumbob]

124. To be released at the whim of any future softheaded executive.

Really?

You wanta leave rabid dogs in the pound as well? We routinely put them down, and none of them even wanted or tried to get rabies.

I know for sure that execution would keep them from doing any more shit like this.

[Taverner]

121. Have you ever seen the movie "Breaker Morant"?

It's a good film to watch - and I think it mirrors the complexity of this case

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for this, but the DP for me has always been the pure finality of it all

[KansDem]

98. My thought exactly

Yeah, let's bring them home...and have them move in next door?

I say put them in GitMo for the rest of their miserable lives...

[grahamhgreen]

126. They were trained to do this. The buck stops at the top. Our troops need to GTFO.

[hack89]

76. They are in jail

didn't you read the op?

[tavalon]

88. When it was the Bush regime, we said they were scapegoating

a "few bad apples" when it actually went straight to the top. We knew that the soldiers were doing what they were told to do (which is no defense, indeed, but indicative of the war crimes being allowed from the top). We knew that the buck stopped with Bush and Cheney.

Can you explain to me how this is any different, in substance or situation from that? I see no difference.

[24601]

128. Well. ummm...you see this is very different. Obama won the Nobel

Peace Price - so these are peaceful war crimes, ordered with pure peaceful motives.

No, Obama & Biden didn't order them any more than Bush or Cheney did. But the lack of personal responsibility does not eliminate command responsibility.

Should they resign and let President Bohner take over? Actually no, the VP isn't in the chain of command. The VP is responsible only for presiding over the senate and checking the page one obituary every morning.

[Solly Mack]

2. K&R

[Marblehead]

3. yikes

what are they doing to our kids??

[BeFree]

7. One kid I know

Told me he couldn't wait to go over there and kill.

So that is what they are doing to our kids.

[doc03]

30. That's what they teach you in basic "I wanta go to

Vietnam I wanta kill a Viet Cong". I suppose it is the same today.

[wordpix]

95. often it's the hs senior males who did not do well academically who 'want' to go

They see no other jobs future so it looks like a good option. :eyes:

[Fire1]

99. There really are no other job options regardless of what kind

of student they might have been.

[wordpix]

101. you can always work as a lobbyist if you're glib---or shill for the corpos

[iwishiwas]

4. Crap!!--over 4000 photos. Only 3 to be published.

[chill_wind]

5. Mutilating corpses. Cutting off one of the man's little fingers and removing a tooth.

4000 photos and videos.

USA!! USA!! Spreadin freedom!!

Savages.

[glinda]

39. Wonder if they attend Christian/Evangelical events regularly.

[Iggo]

62. They must have passed their Spiritual Fitness Tests...

...right?

[glinda]

118. my guess

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[xchrom]

6. If they truly investigate - I guess we will see. Nt

[2banon]

8. jeezus, I'm sick... n/t

:mad: :argh: :nuke: :argh: :nuke: :mad:

[No Elephants]

9. Have we won enough hearts and minds yet?

[atreides1]

11. Depends

How many hearts do we have to cutout, and how many minds to we have blow out?:sarcasm:

[Crowman1979]

10. How about the military get out of their before they wind up with another Beirut.

[mwb970]

89. The republicans voted to continue the war for $10 billion per month.

Right after they voted to save $5 million a year by defunding NPR, citing "fiscal responsibility".

:eyes:

[wordpix]

97. that is sick - unfortunately I don't see many Dems standing up to the madness

only Bernie and a few others.

[doc03]

12. Another military adventure the MSM cheerleaded

us into and the public supported overwhelmingly at the time.

[Hissyspit]

13. Not all of us.

[freshwest]

35. It's not like they bothered to count our votes on the matter, either

[NuclearDem]

52. Hindsight sure is lovely, isn't it?

[Diclotican]

14. alp227

alp227

The americans seen never to learn about this.. And now they must tray to "safeguard" it, after its proved that again they have been posing with dead afghanistans.. Or Iraqis, or whatever this "Killing teams" have opperated, somewhere outside of military law... But this must be something that have the backing of higher up.. Or it is a sigh of th total lack of disiplin by american soldiers.. And that is dangrous, as lack of disiplin can end up to harm the army in the end...

I do not know to mutch about this - yet. But it could have the same result, as the pictures at Abu Ghraib, where american soldiers was showing to abusing iraqi prisoners, regardness of their guilt or not.. And it sparked a lot of anger around most of the world, not just in the arabic world, but rather all over the planet...

This is explosive, and the gulty ones have to been found, and if finded guilty also given long prison times.. But again, it is the small man who get the axe, the real criminals in this game, the higher ups wil never get a day in prison, but rather given some new medals.. As most of the higher ups in Abu Ghraib and other places where crimes like this happend...

But, it is sad to think, that germans who did similar crimes under WW2, in fact was hanged by not just the Nurenberg War Tribunal in 1945-46, but also was hanged until 1947, if the documents of crimes was good enough.. After that they often got long prison times.. In the East Europeans, they was more willing to hang peopole who had did that type of crimes.. And some of them, hanged peopole long into the 1950s...

Today, one of the original suporters of the Nuremberg Trials (the americans insisted about a criminal trial, instead as Stalin and Churchill wanted, just to hang up X thousands of germans, to scare the rest to comply once and for all) Is doing crimes, that many in fact get long prison times for before.. Oh how the mighty ones have fallen the last couple of decades.. Tha last decade have been a nasty ride down the tubes I would say...

Diclotican

[KoKo]

15. Young ones raised on Bush Doctrine? "Eye for an Eye?"

who knows. Just "youthful spirits"...boys and girls acting out...Nothing to see there...move along.

:shrug:

[tavalon]

90. It once was the Bush Doctrine

Now it is the Obama Doctrine.

Same as it ever was. Except for my broken heart. I used to be able to keep that at bay by hating Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, et al.

I believed in and I supported those who are now in power.

I am so ashamed of my country.

[zeemike]

17. What do you expect from an all volunteer military.

Just what kind of people do you think would volunteer for such things?
The brutal and ruthless sociopaths are of the greatest value in such a military....and normal moral people would not last long among them.

[jacquelope]

22. You'd get the same with a conscript or volunteer army. n/t

.

[zeemike]

91. Yes but they are surrounded by others with a moral compass

And so it they act it must be out of sight of most of the soldiers.
There may have been many My Li incidents already but no one squealed on them or refused to take part in it....I am thinking of the video clip of helicopters firing on Innocent people in Bagdad....that would have never been reveled if it were not for Wikileaks.
I know this because I served before the all volunteer military....1960-68

[stevedeshazer]

18. All Libyan War defenders, please note.

There's a whole bunch of 'em here today.

War is wrong, and when it happens this is what you get.

[provis99]

19. is this one of the images?

Oops, wrong war, same attitude.

[spooked911]

84. actually, we did similar things in Vietnam-- cutting off ears and so forth

and there is a long history of getting such "trophies" in war.

Don't mean to excuse it in any way-- it's sick. But it seems we never learn, or get better.

[thereismore]

114. And in WWII, at Peleliu for sure. nt

[billh58]

20. And the rest of the

story is, this was a very small number (12) of renegade druggie criminals who have already been arrested, and are currently awaiting trial. They are not representative of the majority of our citizen soldiers, who are our brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, fathers, and mothers.

[yardwork]

21. I'm tired of hearing these excuses.

[billh58]

23. Facts are

not excuses -- they are statements of truth. Deception and lies are the opposite of the truth. Deliberately painting hundreds of thousands of dedicated American citizen-soldiers with the same broad brush as a handful of renegade drug addicts and criminals is disingenuous, and ethically dishonest.

It is fine to be anti-war, as most thinking people (including our troops) would agree with that stance. It is despicable, however, to lie about the majority of our citizen-soldiers in order to promote an anti-war agenda.

[defendandprotect]

27. As Sy Hersh has made clear, this is the most cruel and brutal army we've ever

raised --

No one can look at the situation of 1 million innocents murdered in Iraq without

understanding that this isn't the few -- this is the many.

Nor do people torture themselves -- it takes many confused soldiers -- and many

corrupt leaders to get troops to do these things. Whether Abu Graibh or in these wars.

[billh58]

33. I understand the passion

of the anti-war movement, and agree with you to some extent. Pulling exaggerated statistics out of the ether, however, just to further a flawed argument is fruitless. There have not been "1 million innocents murdered in Iraq," nor do the "many confused" practice rampant torture at the behest of "many corrupt leaders."

Abu Ghraib was an isolated situation perpetrated by a few drug-addicted criminals, and they were brought to justice. The incident that is the subject of this OP has distinct similarities to Abu Ghraib, and these criminals are facing military justice as well.

I can excuse those who have not served in the U. S. Military for forming a distorted view of "all" military members based on dramatized "news" reports. I can not excuse those who will parrot others' distortions without doing at least a little research, and using just a little common sense. The military is representative of any other segment of American society: the vast majority are decent, caring people, and the rest run from petty asswipe to anti-social monster.

[defendandprotect]

40. Anti-war passion doesn't require exaggerations ....

We have killed more than a million Iraqis -- are you suggesting they had something to do

with the infamous "9/11"?

Have you heard yet of Abu Ghraib? More than 140,000 prisoners arrested by US?

Have you read the Report by General Taguba -- ?

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/06/18/41514/general-who-probed-abu-ghraib.html

Taguba was forced into retirement after his investigation --



Abu Ghraib was an isolated situation perpetrated by a few drug-addicted criminals, and they were brought to justice. The incident that is the subject of this OP has distinct similarities to Abu Ghraib, and these criminals are facing military justice as well.

Ah -- disingenuous -- that gets you put on IGNORE --

No one can vouch for anyone else's behavior -- and rather, we've had soldiers tell us that troops

are firing at anything that moves. Including, women and children.


Survey: 1/3 of army approves of torture

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20070504_survey_many_soldiers_approve_of_torture/



US military runs torture training facility

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/12/us_military_run.html



Not to mention the notorious School of the Americas -- which trained military thugs to serve

governments all over the world -- brutally and violently -- including training to torture.

Torture teachers
... were taught by instructors from a military school that trains U.S. soldiers how to resist torture. ... school that trains elite U.S. troops to resist torture. ... school training ...
www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/29/torture - Cached


Waterboarding “Torture” Used On U.S. Military People at ...
... long list is the U.S. military’s secretive torture school ... and Escape (SERE) training, which teaches U.S. military ... to do to our own troops. what we did was torture ...
johnltdo5455.wordpress.com/2009/04/23/waterboarding... - Cached


If you were simply underinformed, I'd I wouldn't put you on ignore --

but for disingenuousness -- IGNORE

Bye --

[billh58]

45. The most common

response of someone who thinks that they absolutely "know" the truth, and whose position has been calmly refuted, is to cover their ears and go: la, la, la, la, la, la....

The DU member who has thankfully put me on "ignore" has taken many half-truths and attempted to make a innuendo-filled case out of whole cloth.

The bottom line is that our citizen-soldiers are by-and-large the same decent brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, mothers, and fathers that they were before they went to war. Has their outlook on life changed? Of course it has, but their basic American values remain firmly intact.

[harmonicon]

92. you've repeated it enough times that I have to take issue:

Our soldiers are not "citizen soldiers". That would be the case if the draft was in place, or if the entire military were made up of the reserves. These are professional soldiers. It is there job, and that is what they are paid for.

[billh58]

102. They remain United States

citizens: citizen soldiers. They are not a group of KKK misfits, or Blackwater hooligans, but come from among our friends, neighbors, and relatives. Yes, they are volunteers who get paid, but most of them are reservists and National/Air Guard members who have been called up for active duty, and have been extended time and time again.

[harmonicon]

113. Not all of them are citizens.

US citizenship isn't required to join the US army, so from that definition, it doesn't fit. However, I think of "citizen" in a broader use, and in that case, I still disagree. Yes, those from reserves qualify, but these people are for the most part professional soldiers. As for not being "Blackwater hooligans", where do you think Blackwater recruits from? Give me a break. I have friends and family in the armed forces, and I'm not trying to malign them, but I think your point of view on this is seriously askew.

[billh58]

119. I apologize for

using the term "citizen soldier" so loosely. I agree that the U. S. military is far different from the Swiss (and other) systems.

Having said that, I can not stand idly by while those who think that our friends, neighbors, and relatives have suddenly become ruthless animals just because they are serving their country. Especially from those who have never served, yet enjoy the freedoms secured by the blood of generations of U. S. Military men and women.

[rayofreason]

48. Exaggerations- yes

1. Your figure of 1 million Iraqi civilians dead is nonsense. Only someone who wants to believe the worst can ignore the careful analysis done at the following site:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

2. Most of the civilians killed in Iraq were deliberately killed by the Insurgents whereas the US Army does its best to avoid civilian casualties. To claim otherwise is a libel.

[defendandprotect]

59. CNN: Study: War blamed for 655,000 Iraqi deaths -- up to 10/11/06 --

Lt's also recall that we've been bombing Iraq for more than 20 years now --

that we've bombed their infrstructure despite rules of war that prohibit it --

We refused to clean up the depleted uranium after Gulf War I -- some say 500,000

children died due to that catastrophe.

All combined, it may be way more than a million Iraqis dead since our wars on Iraq!!



New study says US war has killed 655,000 Iraqis

According to a study published Wednesday in the British medical journal the Lancet, the US invasion and occupation of Iraq are responsible for the deaths of an estimated 655,000 Iraqis.

Of the total number of war-related deaths, an estimated 600,000 died as a result of violence, including gun shots, car bombs and other explosive devices, and air strikes. An estimated 31 percent of these, or 186,000, are attributed by the study directly to coalition forces—that is, these Iraqis were killed by the American military or its allies. According to the study, gunshot wounds caused 56 percent of violent deaths—an extraordinarily high figure that points again to the direct role of the US military.

An additional 24 percent of war-related deaths are attributed to other sources, including sectarian killings and suicide bombings, while 45 percent are classified as unknown.

These figures give a partial picture of the consequences of a war crime of vast dimensions. US imperialism has laid waste to an entire country and killed a significant proportion of the population in order to seize control of Iraq’s vast oil resources and establish a hegemonic position in the Middle East. The Lancet report stands as an indictment not only of the Bush administration, but of the entire US political establishment.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/oct2006/iraq-o12.shtml

http://articles.cnn.com/2006-10-11/world/iraq.deaths_1_gilbert-burnham-death-rate-ali-dabbagh?_s=PM:WORLD

Iraq Body Count has produced the lowest figures -- coincidentally!

What is the real death toll in Iraq?

The Americans learned one lesson from Vietnam: don't count the civilian dead. As a result, no one knows how many Iraqis have been killed in the five years since the invasion. Estimates put the toll at between 100,000 and one million, and now a bitter war of numbers is raging. Jonathan Steele and Suzanne Goldenberg report

There is no shortage of estimates, but they vary enormously.

The Iraqi ministry of health initially tried to keep a count based on morgue records but then stopped releasing figures under pressure from the US-supported government in the Green Zone. The director of the Baghdad morgue, already under stress because of the mounting horror of his work, was threatened with death on the grounds that by publishing statistics he was causing embarrassment.

The families of the bereaved wanted him to tell the truth, but like other professionals he came to the view that he had to flee Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/iraq

[polly7]

64. Iraq Body Count explained they didn't collect the door-to-door

data gathered in the Hopkins / Lancet study and said years ago this was one of the reasons their numbers were lower. I didn't know the ministry of health was pressured to stop publishing the count .......... it makes the heart heavy to think even one of these people wasn't counted, let alone thousands / tens of thousands.

[rayofreason]

65. The Lancet study is flawed...

...and cannot be supported by the actual evidence as detailed on the Iraqi Body Count site. The analysis presented there is quantitative and convincing. Those folks have great credibility - they were against the Iraq war, but they are honest and thorough in their analysis.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/beyond/reality-checks/

Emotions and numbers don't mix well, and I am a very quantitive individual.

[eridani]

81. Not at all. It employs standard epidemiological methods that no one in the US

--military bitched about until they were applied to Iraq.

[defendandprotect]

111. Also notice the intimidation and threats of murder for collecting statistics -- !!

[eridani]

80. That is merely the war dead. The 1 million figure is from the Lancet study

--of excess deaths, based on the assumption that you kill someone just as dead by blowing up the hospital that could have saved his life, or blowing up the water treatment plants that prevent babies from dying of diarrhea.

[yardwork]

29. I'm not lying about anything. I'm stating that I'm tired of excuses.

There have been atrocities after atrocities since we've invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. I live in North Carolina and I've read news articles about trials that have never been reported in the national news. Why is that? Case after case of U.S. military and U.S. contracted mercenaries torturing and killing children, women, old men, unarmed civilians. And those are just the ones that came to trial. How many more?

It's not just a dozen or so renegades. Sweeping this under the rug and calling it just a few bad apples is disingenuous, ethically dishonest, and just plain wrong.

[billh58]

36. We are not discussing

"contracted mercenaries," and fyi, the rank-and-file military have no love for these overpaid wannabes either. They have taken no Oath of Honor, nor do they have any regard for basic American values.

The general tone of this OP attacks our citizen-soldier volunteer military, and it is those Americans that I defend.

[defendandprotect]

42. You'd better read up on what you're defending from School of the Americas to Gen. Taguba Report--!!

[billh58]

47. I have read

General Taguba's report, and it is no where near as hysterical as you are attempting to make it out to be. He brought up some valid criticisms, but nothing to suggest that there are other than a handful of malcontents who are perpetrating atrocities in the war zones -- partly due to the opverall tone set by Dubya's "bring 'em on" attitude.

General Taguba's main accusations were aimed at Dubya, Cheney, et. al., and NOT at the rank-and-file military. He also pointed out the role of the dysfunctional political/military-industrial relationship in laying a foundation for civilian criminal activities.

[NuclearDem]

58. I appreciate your faith in our ordinary soldiers...

I know you've served, but the military's changed since Vietnam.

Most kids enlist these days either to pay for college, out of blind nationalism, for the glory, or so they can live out Call of Duty in real life. Most junior enlisted you'll see these days don't differ that much from your ordinary college kid.

[yardwork]

93. You responded to my post, not the OP. You called me a liar and I object to that.

Running around the internets calling people liars because they are speaking up - which is the right and obligation of citizens - is not going to change anybody's mind.

[NuclearDem]

56. You're going to have to meet us in the middle on this one

No, not all of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who go overseas end up committing these atrocities; in fact, I would say the vast majority don't.

But combat and the side-effects of war have a profound impact on the young. Our culture tries to desensitize them to violence, but the violence and portrayals of death in the media don't do anything to prepare the majority of them for what they'll encounter. Even good young people who go overseas and are thrown into the war can have their psyches shaken. Unfortunately...this is one of those coping mechanisms gone way, way too tragically far.

Not saying there aren't a fair number of criminals and bloodthirsty psychopaths who enlist too, and more often than not, this shit is the byproduct of really sick people.

It's really hard to keep your values and your beliefs when you're exposed to these awful things.

[JonLP24]

57. There is much more than a

handful of addicts in the military whether that is from alcohol, illegal drugs, or prescriptions. Though many of them are great people. I was in addict while in the military and I would never do anything like this. Hell I never used the phrase "Haji Shop" (to describe one of those little stores at CSC Scania) which is phrase used by almost the whole military.

Anyways you mention addict (or druggie) twice and I just had to point out it would probably surprise you how many actually are. Most people develop problems with drugs or drinking after deployments. I know I did. I don't know these soldiers(in the OP) situations but these deployments affect us all and quite a few self-medicate. Often times, instead of treatment they kick them out and no VA for them. Thanks for putting your body on the line for a year, come back with emotional and mental problems, SOL.

[NuclearDem]

60. Same here

I spent most of my nights after my first deployment with at least two shots of whiskey in my system. After I was diagnosed with PTSD and given SSRIs and Ambien to deal with it, I started abusing those as well.

And I never would have pulled this shit.

[provis99]

26. they said that about My Lai 4, too.

and the thousands of other atrocities committed by troops: just a small number of rogues.

[defendandprotect]

28. +1000% --

[billh58]

37. I served two tours in

Viet Nam, and My Lai was indeed an atrocity, but was brought to light by other American soldiers who knew that it was wrong. Your reference to "thousands of other atrocities" in Viet Nam has no basis in fact, unless you are speaking about the VC, or the Chicom and Russian "advisors."

A war zone is not a pretty place, and anyone who has been in one will join you wholeheartedly in condemning war as both a failure of diplomacy and an exercise in futility.

[AtheistCrusader]

55. Hugh Thompson Jr. just passed away a few years ago.

A good man. Most soldiers that I know are like him.

[PassingFair]

116. Very FEW soldiers would do what Hugh Thompson did.

That's why he stands out like a shining beacon
of decency in that horrible war.

His very existence was a threat to
"discipline".

[provis99]

66. thousands of CONFIRMED atrocities.

here are some of the common types of atrocity:
http://hnn.us/articles/1802.html

tens of thousands of Vietnamese murdered in Operations Phoenix:
http://www.serendipity.li/cia/operation_phoenix.htm

war crimes personally witnessed by American journalists:
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/8/25/beyond_the_swift_boat_controversy_exposing

Winter Soldier: American soldiers themselves testifying about atrocities they committed and witnessed:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0204058/

the army itself admitted at least 320 atrocities during the 65-72 period, involving thousands of dead civilians:
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/aug/06/nation/na-vietnam6

No wonder Kerry compared the US army to Genghis Khan's bandits, and Christiopher Hitchens compared the army to Nazis.

[eridani]

83. A friend of mine served with the American Friends Service Committee in an area near--

--My Lai. They heard of the atrocities, but didn't bother to report them--because they considered them to be of no consequence compared to the horrendous civilian toll from bombing.

[spooked911]

85. My Lai may have been the worst massacre, but it was no aberration

and we all know similar things have happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember Fallujah.

Both are similar wars to Vietnam, with shadowy enemies that blend into the civilian population.

[Iggo]

63. But the fact is, they are representative...

...whether you like it or not.

[marasinghe]

68. any of the 'renegades' arrested in Iraq for rape & murder been court martialed and -

stood before a firing squad? or, at least, imprisoned for a reasonable term?

[defendandprotect]

24. US training and these wars have so brutalized soldiers that their violence has driven them insane...

if they're unlucky enough, they'll have lifetimes to be haunted by these violent

memories.

[orbitalman]

25. The U.S.military needs to understand this does NOT deserve support...

What? No control??

[hack89]

77. The US Army put these guys in jail

I don't think they expect us to support such actions.

[DeadEyeDyck]

31. where is Cindy Sheehan?

Do they own her too?

[BeFree]

32. She was here earlier

Try a search

Of course the warmongers shit on her and belittled her.

She has not been bought.

[somone]

44. Yep, I saw that.

The hypocrisy is disgusting

[Hissyspit]

41. ?

She's on the Front Page:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x698798

[pam4water]

38. That's a level of stupid and gross I can't really comprehend.

[somone]

43. DynCorp email: "severity of the incidents to be revealed are graphic and extreme"

There is NO fucking excuse for any of this shit. NONE.

[xloadiex]

46. Brainwashing Pure and Simple.

Two years ago my 18 year sweet nephew entered the Marine Corps. All he talks about now is hoping he can get to Afghanistan because he'll be too embarrassed to get out not having seen any "action" and not doing what he was trained to do, kill.

[Sonoman]

50. Zippo Squads

Nothing new.

SOP

That's what happens when people start killing people.

Sonoman

[jonthebru]

51. As long as we continue starting wars,

we will have occurrences like this.
Somehow, we must change our national, patriotic consciousness to one that supports peace and only uses our war machine when absolutely frickin' necessary.
We have all heard of how crowd mentality works in both fact and fiction. Groups of Humans, men or women, can not be relied upon to "do the right thing" without order and dicipline, it obviously broke down in these situations. After Vietnam I thought we were beyond these incursions overseas, but alas people tend to forget.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

54. Great post, brother Jon..

I hope everyone on this board reads it.

Peace.

[raouldukelives]

104. It would be nice to have actual "peacekeepers"

But we all know they "hate us for our freedoms".

[Vidar]

53. We're really making progress. The next steps will be headhunting & vivisection.

[David__77]

61. America is such a champion of human rights.

I am so pleased that Democrats and progressives trust our heroes!

[provis99]

67. anyone else notice the key suspect is from Wasilla, Alaska?

Cpl Jeremy Morlock of Wasilla.

That makes only three people I've heard of coming from Wasilla: murder suspect Morlock, porn actress April Flowers, and Sarah Palin.

and apparently Wasilla is also the meth capital of Alaska.

Ain't that America?

[Shining Jack]

69. "Trained to Kill"

"Killing is Unnatural"

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

"Before retiring from the military, I spent almost a quarter of a century as an army infantry officer and a psychologist, learning and studying how to enable people to kill. Believe me, we are very good at it. But it does not come naturally; you have to be taught to kill. And just as the army is conditioning people to kill, we are indiscriminately doing the same thing to our children, but without the safeguards."

"Killing requires training because there is a built-in aversion to killing one's own kind. I can best
illustrate this from drawing on my own work in studying killing in the military."

"In more modern times, the average firing rate was incredibly low in Civil War battles. Paddy Griffith
demonstrates that the killing potential of the average Civil War regiment was anywhere from five hundred to a thousand men per minute. The actual killing rate was only one or two men per minute per regiment ... At the Battle of Gettysburg, of the 27,000 muskets picked up from the dead and dying after the battle, 90 percent were loaded. ... In reality, the average man would load his musket and bring it to his shoulder, but he could not bring himself to kill. He would be brave, he would stand shoulder to shoulder, he would do what he was trained to do; but at the moment of truth, he could not bring himself to pull the trigger. So, he lowered the weapon and loaded it again. Of those who did fire, only a tiny percentage fired to hit. The vast majority fired over the enemy's head. "

"During World War II, US Army Brig. Gen. S. L. A. Marshall had a team of researchers study what soldiers did in battle. For the first time in history, they asked individual soldiers what they did in battle. They discovered that only 15 to 20 percent of the individual riflemen could bring themselves to fire at an exposed enemy soldier."

"That is the reality of the battlefield. Only a small percentage of soldiers are able and willing to participate. Men are willing to die; they are willing to sacrifice themselves for their nation, but they are not willing to kill. It is a phenomenal insight into human nature, but when the military became aware of that, they systematically went about the process of trying to fix this "problem." From the military perspective, a 15 percent firing rate among riflemen is like a 15 percent literacy rate among librarians. And fix it the military did. By the Korean War, around 55 percent of the soldiers were willing to fire to kill. And by Vietnam, the rate rose to over 90 percent."

http://www.killology.com/art_trained_killing.htm

[Smarmie Doofus]

70. I DEMAND THE ARREST AND PROSECUTION OF.....

.... whomever blew the whistle on these guys.

It's espionage ! TREASON !!!

[howard112211]

71. So is there a "no-fly-zone" gonna be imposed?

Oh wait.

[democrank]

72. Sickening

I don`t want to jump into the debate here about how many civilians we`ve killed. The answer is...way too many.

There is no excuse for the behavior of this American "kill team" in Afghanistan. It`s the direct result of a military stretched to the breaking point, poor training and supervision, and most importantly... an arrogant attitude of American exceptionalism coupled with an ignorance of other cultures. We hear it all the time, from "leaders" in our own government in a McCarthy-like hearing on radical Muslims or a national ignorance campaign against speaking more than one language.

I`ll bet this kill team`s shameful behavior will help create a few more anti-American attitudes.

[FlyByNight]

73. "Making progress"

Can the US just fucking leave Afghanistan, please?

[irislake]

74. Be patriotic!

Support your troops!

[florida08]

75. blowback will be coming

[Heywood J]

78. I don't recall stories of our fathers and grandfathers

doing this kind of stuff to German, Japanese, Italian, French, or English civilians.

Give them a Nuremburg-style trial, since these were truly crimes against humanity.

[hourglass1]

79. i can't believe

what i read on these pages ... what shallow awareness of who and what you truly represent

insurgents you say
not a million dead iraqis you say
only several 100 thousand you say

as a former member of unpopular foreign forces responsible for up to 3 million deaths and at least two generations of children born with unimaginable handicaps, and the nation that still refuses to man-up for these crimes there and elsewhere dating back to your founding actually (ok boy scouts-wwii was a shining moment - until you nuked civilians, twice), i think it is rather self-serving and purely orwellian to deem those protecting their homelands as insurgents or enemy combatants just because they don't want to submit to your bullying and theft.

ah, but knowing you as i do, you will simply find flaws in my numbers ... not challenge my reading of the cheap-culture and the lowlifes you honor and obey

[clixtox]

120. Absolutely "ditto"!

A very poignant post! Well said and welcome to DU!

Have you ever been back to Vietnam?

I love it here! It is so sweet now, very civilized and peaceful.

Of course, as you wrote, their are the long-lasting deleterious, too often deadly, damages from the criminal use of chemical warfare on the people, flora and soil of SE Asia. Not to mention UXO, unexploded ordinance, of every description, which even now, 36 years after the reunification of Vietnam, still kills many Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians every year.

THe USA is a rogue state with fabulous propaganda apparatus able to bamboozle most of the USA citizens, and once upon a time, surprising numbers of others around the world. Not so many foreigners anymore... The world's people now recognize that the USA and Israel are the hubs of the one true "Axis of Evil".

So sad...

[hourglass1]

122. yes

people back to doing what people really do everywhere - eat, sleep, raise families - live their lives
fruits and veggies everywhere - only saw evidence of street kids when i splurged and went to da lat - any many u.s. city is worse - sorry but true

couple of winters back i went from hanoi to 'uncle ho' town - no reservations 18 days - bus and train and hire van ... average $15 a night - eat where you see lots of healthy looking locals eating - stays in must see places like the french quarter, cat ba island, nihn binh (gorgeous river gorge cuc phuong nat'l park), pleiku, vinh (rest), hue (great place too) quy nhon (quiet cheap beach, phan rang (nostalgia only), da lat (nice & cool), saigon and back home to japan ...

[Hubert Flottz]

82. Winning some more hearts and minds.

We can't afford to take care of our senior citizens, but we can afford wars with no ends in sight?

[Beam Me Up]

86. the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today: my own government. MLK 1967

"Beyond Vietnam" MLK Address April 4, 1967

http://uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=3413

DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT, IN THE THEATRE OF WAR ON THE INTERNATIONAL SCENE, NOT A FUCKING THING HAS CHANGED IN OVER 40 GOD DAMNED YEARS EXCEPT IT HAS GOTTEN WORSE AND WORSE

[mwb970]

87. I am always hearing that the military is overrun with religious nuts.

It must not be true. True-believer Christians would never do anything like this. They are good people who care about others.

Oh, and Sarah Palin is a brilliant foreign policy analyst who we are lucky to have representing our nation overseas right now.

[OwnedByFerrets]

94. You got to be fucking kidding me. I feel like NOTHING

has changed in the past 10 yrs. Unless you count that things are worse now than in 2000.

[Swampguana]

96. because of things like this is why

people think poorly of the united states.

[jwirr]

100. When a soldier gets this comfortable with killing then it is time to

bring them home and get them treatment.

[boycottfaux]

103. Volunteer Military, Wellll

With an 'all volunteer military' this is what you get?

Some people enlist for the schooling, but most have enlisted
to fight, just a continuation of playing their video games,
IMO!

The enemy is portrayed as subhuman during basic training, this
is what happens!

Any of us surprised?

[Marnie]

105. Let's see. We train them to kill.

Train them to seek out the enemy to kill. Their defined goal is to kill an enemy.

We give them guns and point to the distance there lie the enemy seek and kill. And like any well trained attack animal that is exactly what they do.

That is why military force should only be used as the last possible choice in moments of great physical danger.

Like Sarah says, common sense.

[Ticonderoga]

107. We do not train them to massacre civilians

[grahamhgreen]

127. Except when we do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/world/asia/13afghan.html

[Ticonderoga]

106. Who will stop American Imperialism?

[robinlynne]

108. so when can we (they) stop pretending war is "noble"?

[Xenotime]

109. Monsters.

[Iggo]

110. Nope. They're actual human beings...

...which is a thousand times scarier.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mdmc]

117. All is fair in love and war

[Nihil]

125. Huh.

If only there had been some photos of "Al Qaeda soldiers" posing on the
smoking ruins of the WTC ... I'm sure that attitude would have soon settled
down the hot-heads who wanted to invade some country in the Middle East.

"All is fair in love and war" :eyes:

[tabasco]

123. Time to bring the troops home.

There was just cause for destruction of taliban training camps, but this nation building shit has got to end.