Libyan bombing 'unconstitutional', Republicans warn Obama

[pampango]

Source: The Guardian

Republican members of Congress are claiming the conflict in Libya is unconstitutional because Barack Obama failed to seek Congressional approval.

A survey by CNN/Opinion Poll conducted on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and published on Monday, recorded 50% approval for Obama's handling of the crisis, with 41% disapproving, and support for a no-fly zone climbing from 56% to 70% over the last week. There was overwhelming opposition to the use of US ground troops.

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, a Republican who chairs the House foreign affairs committee, called on the president to "clearly define for the American people what vital United States security interests he believes are currently at stake in Libya".

Obama would have faced heavy criticism if he had stood by while a massacre took place in Benghazi, and criticism had been building from Republicans such as McCain about his lack of leadership. Republicans such as Senator John McCain have criticised Obama for acting too late, suggesting the forces would have been more effective if deployed weeks ago.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/22/libyan-conflict-unconstitutional-obama-warned

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[divine_truine]

2. you republican-teabaggers just dont know when to quit...

Obama is exercising same executive powers y'all gave bush after 9-11-2001! Remember? Y'dumb assclowns!

[ngant17]

3. and if Obama did the same thing against Castro

Ros-Lehtinen would be kissing his feet instead of denouncing him. Hypocrite par excellence.

[GKirk]

16. For that matter

if ANY repub had done this in Libya they would be applauding him.

[SOS]

54. April 15, 1986

Reagan ordered air strikes on Libya in retaliation for the Libyan terrorist attack in Berlin.
Reagan notified Congress but did not seek approval.

Unconstitutional?

[Roland99]

56. What about Panama? Grenada? Clinton's bombings of Serbia? Somalia? Iraq?

the list is endless and both sides bitch and moan that the other side didn't do it right when nothing really matters in the end except YASFW (Yet Another Stupid Fucking War)

[SOS]

57. Despair for our species

Century after century, Homo sapiens continues to slaughter one another.
It never changes.
It's all so unnecessary.

And it's always caused by the greed and arrogance of those in power, whether it's
a roman emperor or f#cking Dick Cheney.

[Pacifist Patriot]

18. I doubt it because it works like this.

Member of Republican party does something....it's a mandate from heaven.

Member of Democratic party does something....it's wrong.

Obama does something...it's evil and undoubtedly impeachable.

[EFerrari]

20. Well, they didn't mind when the torture president started bombing Pakistan, did they?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. Which one?

[EFerrari]

22. Oh, dear. That's depressing.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

43. Sad but liberating.

[VermeerLives]

27. But why doesn't he?

Castro is also a brutal dictator. For that matter, Chavez is no knight in shining armor either.

[coalition_unwilling]

49. "Castro is also a brutal dictator" -- Unmatched for sheer

ignorance. Fidel Castro is no longer in power.

Welcome to my Ignore list

[laylah]

4. My head hurts...

where were these assholes when *Dumbass went after Iraq?

ETA: I do not support this new invasion; however, I truly am curious where the Republican's were when *Jr. went after Sodamned Insane? :shrug:

[Pacifist Patriot]

17. You didn't even need to add the explanation. I'm with you on this one.

WTF?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. Yes, the irony, it burns

Edit to add: But, if the Republicans vote to stop our participation in this war, then dog bless them.

We are now in three pointless wars.

[Bandit]

55. To be fair, Bush* did seek Congressional approval

And enough Democrats voted in favor to allow it to pass. It was called the Iraqi War Resolution or IWR as it is referred to here.

[diveguy]

5. Didnt we say the same thing when bush did this in Iraq

Bring all our troops home

[sofa king]

6. Yes, there were practically no false pretenses or lies told to start it.

[rasputin1952]

7. What color is the sky in the GOP universe?

These same people gave bush carte blanche to invade anyone he decided was an "enemy"...and by boots on the grounds, as opposed to stand off cruise missiles...:wtf:

I am amazed that these people just don't burst into flame...:eyes:

[Kolesar]

12. And it takes a British newspaper to report this.

A "Parallel Earth" cartoon by "Tom Tomorrow" could explain them. I sure as hell cannot.

[Volaris]

58. What color is the sky in the GOP universe?--

White?

[EJ24]

8. I called it!

I said a few days ago that as soon as this happened, Republicans would suddenly turn into peace-loving, anti-war doves just to oppose Obama. LOL These thugs are pathetic.

[neoralme]

26. They can't do anything unless he keeps the war going past

60 days without Congress approval according to the 1973 War Powers Resolution Act.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. President Obama fell right into this Rove trap.Rove said,"if Obama doesn't stay course in Libya.....

and finish what he started, he will look weaker then he already does"...this is absolutely planned to run well into the election cycle.

also designed with a whole lot of "divide and conquer" thrown in to it.

[no_hypocrisy]

13. + 1

Yep

[KurtNYC]

15. Obama took his time with this, considered, negotiated via Clinton

He is the POTUS. The buck stops there.

[neoralme]

23. Yep. Do you see this maybe moving into a WW3 scenario? I know

that is remote now, but I thought the UN vote was unusual and with the US now committed to one more military adventure while our economy at home seems to be in a constant nascent recovery and the common man is being ditched, it seems like a good time for a strike by some kind of Russian-Chinese alliance.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

28. yup the UN vote seemed fishie to me considering that Russia & China were both absent at the time and

are now yelling the loudest!

Mr President you should have listened to Mr Gates warnings and advise not to get involved in another war anywhere in the ME or Africa....Gates also said that "anyone who ever advices a President to do so was insane'"

[neoralme]

31. I sure would like to know who told him to make the bombing. That

would make a lot of things clearer. This multi-level chess thing is frustrating. With Spock lost on some asteroid, there's no one to ask questions of anymore.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. RW talking points: Obama's women Hillary , Susan Rice,& Samantha Power pushed Obama into it

www.rightpundits.com/?p=8438

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/13047_libyaairstrikeshillaryclintonandthewomenwhocalledforwar

www.alternet.org/world/150311/obama's_women_of_war

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. Planned? By whom?

Are you suggesting that Rove created unrest in Libya, knowing that Obama would send our military to intervene?

[Kingofalldems]

45. The post said no such thing

ANOTHER straw man.

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. Then how in the world did he fall into Rove's trap?

[TreasonousBastard]

10. So unconstitutional even Kucinich wants him impeached...

or maybe Kucinich gave them the idea...

[Shadowflash]

11. LOLWUT?

[madrchsod]

14. republicans are very confused and should seek help

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Maybe those nuclear missiles being transported by the Air Force back

in Bush/Cheney's time makes more sense?

[FLPanhandle]

24. They'd support this if a republican president gave the orders

They are only against it because a Democrat gave the orders.

[neoralme]

25. The 1973 War Powers Resolution authorizes the President to start

a war as long as it’s reported to Congress within 48 hours. Then, Congress would have 60 days to authorize the action, or extend it. I am no longer a fan of Obama, but I don't see that he did anything technically wrong, although as ElsewheresDaughter just posted he did fall into Rove's trap, which will be difficult to extradite himself from.

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/03/21/obamas-war-on-libya-a-constitutional-view/

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. true he is with in the law but, that law should have been repealed long ago...it muddies the water

and gives the President too much power imho.

[neoralme]

30. I agree, but I wanted to state the law for the record.

[ProSense]

32. Republicans are full of it

<...>

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), a supporter of the U.S. mission in Libya and the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said that if Obama's actions on Libya are impeachable, then so are the acts of every other president since World War II who launched military operations without a formal declaration of war.

<...>

more

President Obama acted under the U.N. Charter and fulfilled the War Powers Act requirements: Consulted with Congress, notified Congress within 48 hours and now has 60 days to submit a report.

[mvd]

33. Coming from Repukes, all I can do is laugh

:rofl:

[Blue_Tires]

35. Bizarro world...

:crazy:

[Nossida]

38. Liars as usual

The President submitted his required
paperwork to that sellout excuse of
a Congress. As usual, they a are nothing
but Pathetic Liars. Trash

hey Republicans, defund the attacks.
We all know you won't.

Christ, republicans make me want to vomit.

[David__77]

39. Anything that helps stop the US bombing, I support.

I welcome support from whatever quarters.

[Democrats_win]

40. Reagan gave Iran and Iraq weapons. Treason anyone?

I may not agree with yet another oil war, but the Republicans are the LAST people who should be complaining about this. Liberals, on the other hand should speak up!

[KamaAina]

41. Derp.

:wtf:

[totodeinhere]

42. They are just saying this to try to make political points against Obama.

If a Republican president has done the same thing they would be praising him to high heaven. In fact, that's what they did with Shrub's illegal war in Iraq. Those people are such hypocrites.

[rayofreason]

44. Nope, it is constitutional, even though...

...Obama did not consult with Congress before hand. Not too happy about that. He had better do it soon, and explain his strategy to the American people as well.

[democrat2thecore]

46. If Bush did it we would say it was unconstitutional. If a President Palin did it we'd be calling for

Impeachment!! But, it's okay if "our guy" (who has proven time and time again he IS NOT) does it. The DU logic is such a cluster****.
The justifications by so many here are so hypocritical.

[ClarkUSA]

47. Wrong. On 3/1, a Senate resolution calling for a Libyan no-fly zone was passed unanimously.

What a shame it is that so many Democrats are falling for yet another anti-Obama lie/Republican talking point.

Here is the truth. Read the facts:

"WH pushes back on charge that it didn't consult with Congress"

Administration officials began to pushback hard today in Chile on the charge that the White House did not consult with Congress.

Exhibit A for the White House: A Senate resolution that passed March 1, which denounced Khaddafy's atrocities. The White House says the U.N. resolution authorizing force in Libya incorporates it.

The resolution was incorporated unanimously and calls for a "no-fly zone."

The resolution "urges the United Nations Security Council to take such further action as may be necessary to protect civilians in Libya from attack, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan territory."

Still, the resolution was non-binding and does not have the weight or legal standing of a declaration of war.

Full text of the resolution below. The lead sponsor was New Jersey Sen. Bob Menendez (D). Co-sponsors included: Sens. Mark Kirk (R-IL), Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Bernie Sanders (I-VT), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Ron Wyden (D-OR), Bob Casey (D-PA), Ben Cardin (D-MD).

The New Jersey delegation, remember, has particular interest in Libya and Khaddafy because of Khadaffy's suspected involvement in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988 that killed 270 Americans, including 38 from New Jersey.

Here's the full text of the resolution:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x634978

Furthermore:

The President sent his notification to Congress regarding the Libya situation in accordance with the War Powers Act. The law requires such a notification within 48 hours of commencing military actions.

Quite a bit of ink was spilled yesterday by folks suggesting the President was not complying with the War Powers Act because he had not notified Congress. But, of course, the criticism was premature and in this case unwarranted since the 48 time period had not yet elapsed. It has now, and his notice has been delivered.

At this point the law requires that hostilities by the US cease within 60 days unless Congress approves. We'll have to see how that plays out.

The text is below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4781606

Get a clue and quit bringing right-wing talking points to DU.

[struggle4progress]

48. Frankly, I'd be delighted if the culture in Congress changed to require more Congressional oversight

of warmaking. The constitution, after all, gives the power of declaring war to Congress, not to the President

Unfortunately, of course, the Congressional Republicans here are complaining simply for partisan reasons

[Rex]

50. So they have no problem with George W Bush starting an illegal war

based on lies by his own administration...yet SOMEHOW they know what Obama is doing is illegal?

Until some of these Repuke assholes explain to me how Iraq was justified, I will laugh in their hypocritical faces!

Fucking more Repuke bullshit.

[treestar]

51. Republicans? Seriously? Republicans?

:rofl: They never saw a war they didn't like!

[Gadget45]

53. We threatened Bush with impeachment for bombing w/o congress' approval

and I was all for it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3084238

Why shouldn't I see the approval of Obama's action as hypocrisy now?

[Volaris]

59. As a serious issue of discussion, i want to ask the following question...

I was under the impression the the President is the Commander in Chief of the FEDERAL armed forces, and as such, doesn't need much Congressional approval to order them to do pretty much any damn thing He wants.

HOWEVER...

Since Congress pays for the Federal armed forces 2 years at a time, the President is effectively limited in the duration by which he can deploy those forces (Army and Air Force) unless Congress decides to keep paying for it. (The Navy is a different story, as the Constitution REQUIRES Congress to maintain a Federal Navy, in perpetutity..)
But as long as Congress keeps funding a Federal Army, the President can march that Army into the en-flamed Gates of Hell, and Congress can't do much but bitch about it.

Also, the President has no CONSTITUTIONAL power to so much as order the State Guard Units out of bed in the morning, until Congress declares a State of War. This means that if the Republican (and Dem.)Governors of the Several States had REALLY possessed any working legal Knowledge of States Rights, the occupation of Baghdad would NEVER been possible, they would have told the Federal Executive to "go fuck yourself, thats MY State Army". The Federal Army wasn't large enough to occupy Baghdad on its own, as evidenced by the presence of State Guard units deployed there.

My general opinion of all this is that,as always, the idiots among the GOP LOVE making arguments for States Rights, and ONLY when that argument works in THEIR favor. Both of these things must stop.

My question is as follows, do you agree with this assessment, if not, where am I wrong, and what can be done to produce a better system, (short of electing a President that would greatly reduce the power of the Imperial Presidency)?