Libyan rebels advance on Muammar Gaddafi's home town

[Turborama]

Source: The Guardian

Chris McGreal in Ben Jawad | Sunday March 27 2011 18.13 BST

Libyan rebels are advancing on Muammar Gaddafi's home town, Sirte, after retaking all the ground lost in earlier fighting as government forces broke and fled under western air strikes.

Revolutionary forces rapidly moved more than 150 miles west along Libya's coastal road, seizing several towns without resistance, as the first witness accounts emerged of the devastating effect on Gaddafi's army and militia of the aerial bombardment that broke their resistance at Ajdabiya on Saturday.

A doctor treating wounded government soldiers described hundreds of deaths, terrible injuries and collapsing morale.

=snip=

In their hurried retreat from Ras Lanuf, government forces abandoned piles of ammunition. They included grey wooden boxes containing rockets but stamped as holding "parts of bulldozer" manufactured in North Korea.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/27/libya-rebels-advance-gaddafi-home-town

---

[dkf]

1. Forget the BS, we have declared war on Ghaddafi and are the rebels de facto Air Force.

[shraby]

2. You keep trying, but the last I heard, Nato will be the rebels

defacto Air Force. NATO = North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
I just can't read NATO as USAF.

[dkf]

3. Germany is trying to get out of NATO missions because they don't want to be involved.

That is what nations who want no part of war do.

[tcaudilllg]

4. I guess that's a limitation of yours, then. One many of the rest of us don't have.

[Turborama]

5. No, NATO as USAF are not the same. If you don't know the difference it's your limitation

Plus, you don't speak for "many of the rest of us". You're speaking for yourself.

[marasinghe]

9. no, you're wrong. he speaks for quite a number of us. (n/t)

[Turborama]

13. Well, at least one more. n/t

[Fool Count]

6. Shouldn't someone now step in to protect Sirte's civilian

population from being slaughtered from the air and on the ground by, I don't know, declaring a no-fly-zone or something?

[joshcryer]

7. I don't think riding in tanks makes you a civilian.

[riverwalker]

8. ?

the civilians are Libyan, now liberated by other Libyans. The regime forces are paid mercenaries from other countries who don't even speak the same language.

[Fool Count]

11. Sirte's population is solidly pro-Qaddafi,

I doubt many of them care to be "liberated by other Libyans" at all. The regime forces are Libyans, that much not even war-mongering NATO propagandists deny.
When the "rebels" lay siege and start shelling the city and NATO forces support them from the air, who is going to protect its civilian population from being killed?

[joshcryer]

12. Nonsense, they have played neutral the whole while.

Before Gaddafi pushed the revolutionaries back they were negotiating for safe passage. The Sirte leaders don't want to be in the middle of anything, they even proposed peace negotiations, but they certainly don't want their civilian population killed just because of a tenuous connection to Gaddafi.

[joshcryer]

10. Reuters and Al Jazeera are now reporting that Sirte has fallen. Very important if true.

[Turborama]

14. BREAKING NEWS: Libyan Rebels 'Take Gaddafi Hometown'

Source: Sky News

6:09am UK, Monday March 28, 2011

Libyan rebels claim to have taken Colonel Muammar Gaddafi’s hometown of Sirte, as they continue to push westward towards the capital Tripoli.

"It's confirmed Sirte has fallen into pro-democracy hands," a rebel spokesman, Shamsiddin Abdulmolah, said.

The fall of the psychologically important position has not been independently verified.

However AFP said at least nine powerful explosions were heard in Sirte on Monday morning.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Rebels-Claim-To-Have-Taken-Colonel-Gaddafi-Hometown-Of-Sirte-As-They-Push-Towards-Tripoli/Article/201103415961263?lpos=Home_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15961263_Rebels_Claim_To_Have_Taken_Colonel_Gaddafi_Hometown_Of

---

This http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12860014">BBC map will probably be updated soon.

[ClarkUSA]

15. Yay! It feels good to have been part of the cavalry, so to speak.

[joshcryer]

16. And just so we're clear, this could not have happened without internal disputing.

No doubt that Gaddafi wanted Sirt to be a stronghold, but the people there wouldn't have it.

[bhikkhu]

17. ...only possible if there was no opposition

as in previous places, and how things happened after Feb 17th when much of the country "left" him more or less overnight. It pretty much demonstrates how unpopular Gadhafi is, even in his own hometown, and how unwilling people are to risk anything fighting on his side.

This bodes well for Tripoli - hoping for the best!

[WheelWalker]

18. +1 for Hope

[Turborama]

19. Al Jazeera English: Libyan rebels claim seizing Sirte

Rebel spokesman says hometown of Muammar Gaddafi has fallen into their hands as they push westwards.
Last Modified: 28 Mar 2011 04:28

Libyan rebels are claiming to have captured the town of Sirte, the home of embattled Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi.

Shamsi Abdul Molah, a spokesman for the opposition's National Council, told Al Jazeera that opposition forces had moved into the city at approximately 11.30pm last night (local time).

"They found it an unarmed city. They had no problem getting in there, they did not encounter any resistance," reported Sue Turton, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Benghazi. Celebratory gunfire was head in Benghazi, the opposition's stronghold in the east of the country, as news filtered in of the taking of Gaddafi's hometown.

A column of military vehicles was seen leaving Sirte on Sunday, heading west towards the capital, Tripoli.

Full article: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201132681812362552.html

[tcaudilllg]

20. Something's not right....

we heard the place was swarming with soldiers yesterday, including loyalist civilians dressed in guerrilla gear.

[Turborama]

21. "We"?

[aquart]

23. Could you be more specific?

[tcaudilllg]

26. A report I heard on MSNBC, I think, reported a source in Sirte saying there were government troops

"swarming" the city.

It was an AP report, I think, from yesterday.

http://www.greenewave.com/component/k2/item/8683-libya-air-raids-hit-gadhafi-stronghold-of-sirte-ap

And I must remark that that reporting exhibits striking signs of personal bias.

[Turborama]

27. Thanks for the link. However, nothing about "loyalist civilians dressed in guerrilla gear" in there

It is very small font so I may have missed it, though.

[OKDem08]

22. there's something about this whole affair

that reeks of a CIA psy-op

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

25. huh? it's white men in suits doing the bombing.

and the "brown men" asked the "white men" for a no-fly zone from day one of the "rebellion".

and the new govt of the "brown men" will be led by a 40-year expat US academic; a free-marketing privatizer, also US-educated will be in charge of oil revenues.

[indimuse]

28. Well..yeah!

Systemic..WESLEY CLARK STATES "The TRUTH IS about the Middle East IS...HAD THERE BEEN NO OIL THERE ..it would be like Africa ~ Nobody's THREATNING to interveene in Africa ~ The problem is the opposite..WE KEEP ASKING for people to intervene and STOP IT! "
"Definately theres always been this attitude that somehow we could intervene and use force in the region."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8H6RomGjJM

[xsirdd]

29. At least...

Better late than never. But what will happen to the tripoli's amazons sponsored by multifilter/philip morris? They will change harem towords sugarbeet-herbies? Will be converted to RomeoyJulieta cigars? After 7 decays we'll use hemp oil with Charlie and Buster in virtual 'Limelight"?

[jzodda]

30. Wow...With Obama to speak Mon night this is great

The timing for him is great politically. If there is confirmation that the rebels have moved so far so fast (thanks to the airstrikes) it should make for a good speech by the President on Monday night.

[Hannah Bell]

31. yay freedom.

[TomClash]

32. Not yet

These claims appear to be premature. Sky news has changed its mind. Just click on the same link. http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Rebels-Claim-To-Have-Taken-Colonel-Gaddafi-Hometown-Of-Sirte-As-They-Push-Towards-Tripoli/Article/201103415961263?lpos=Home_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15961263_Rebels_Claim_To_Have_Taken_Colonel_Gaddafi_Hometown_Of

[TomClash]

33. Libya: coalition attacks Sirte for first time

Source: UK Telegraph

Libyan television confirmed the Gaddafi stronghold had been the target of strikes by "the colonial aggressor", as had Tripoli, and there was a large deployment of troops on the streets of Sirte.

Nato commanders say Libyan regime forces have begun digging in to make a stand in Sirte, raising the prospect that a bloody battle lies ahead as rebel forces barrel westward.

Regime forces who retreated in the face of the rebel advance have begun locating their armour and artillery inside civilian buildings in Sirte, Nato sources said, a tactic designed to make air strikes fraught with risk.

snip

A senior French Nato official told The Daily Telegraph that one strategy could be to starve out the regime forces in Sirte, who do not have the stockpiles of supplies needed to weather a prolonged siege.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8410250/Libya-coalition-attacks-Sirte-for-first-time.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Lithos]

34. Unconfirmed rumors are that Sirte has been liberated

No confirmation yet, but given the exodus out earlier of Ghadaffi loyalists, it seems likely they abandoned the base.

[dipsydoodle]

50. Meanwhile - 3 hours later

Libyan rebels are battling for control of the road leading to the heartland of government loyalists.

The rebel army has been moving rapidly westwards, but came under heavy attack on the approach to Col Muammar Gaddafi's birthplace of Sirte.

Nato, which now runs the coalition action, has denied its strikes are to provide cover for a rebel advance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12885395 28 March 2011 Last updated at 17:35

[riverwalker]

35. lots of buzz about it

Reuters: Libyan rebel spokesman says Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte has fallen into the hands of the rebels.

Mesmerizing drama on Twitter tonight, waiting for tweets confirming rumors that Gaddafi stronghold #Sirte has been liberated.

[riverwalker]

36. they did it!

Aljazeera English now confirms SIRTE WAS LIBERATED TONIGHT

[bobbolink]

37. Fan-fucking-tastic! Thank you!

One can imagine the celbrations in Libya now!

[riverwalker]

38. next stop Tripoli & game over n/t

[center rising]

39. Breaking news on Twitter also confirms it.

Next stop, Tripoli!! Gaddafi is getting quite nervous right about now!!

[joshcryer]

40. Next stop MISRATA! To save those POOR SOULS and allow them to ESCAPE.

FUCK! FUCKING MISRATA GUYS, IT'S A NIGHTMARE.

[CJvR]

45. I agree.

Misrata first. Not because the humanitarian suffering, although ending that is a bonus, but rather because it is where the last confirmed Loyalist fighting units are. Flush them out of the city and let NATO blow them to hell - THEN roll into Tripoli with your rear secure and alot of pissed Misratan allies.

[defendandprotect]

59. Will news of Sirte be reaching Misrata, I wonder -- ??

[Change Happens]

41. Brilliant!

[defendandprotect]

54. Unbelievable -- thank you!!!

:hi: :) :) :)

[Cognitive_Resonance]

42. Demostrates how very thin Gadhafi's support actually is. Not much there without tanks/planes. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

43. Rebel support is even thinner.

Not much there without western air forces clearing away the opposition.

[robcon]

44. Any support for that "thinner" smear?

n/t

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

46. Without western aircraft and missiles, the rebels would be toast

"Thin" barely describes the rebel chances. I haven't seen much evidence of military competence. They shoot down their own aircraft. They don't conserve what ammo they have, they just shoot guns in the air every time they see a reporter. They are certainly full of enthusiasm, but without the umbrella of western military protection, they'd be crushed. Without the agression of western military offense against Gaddafi's forces, they would not gain one mile.

If and when the rebels win this thing, we'll have to stay to protect them, from outsiders like al-qaeda, and from internal factions as they splinter.

Do you see leadership among the rebels? Planning? Coordination?

Thin, at best.

[LanternWaste]

47. It would seem that lacking aircraft, parity had been achieved...

It would seem that lacking aircraft, parity had been achieved (with a small advantage to the Rebels as per the tactical successes over the first ten days of the conflict prior to the Libyan air force being used in any ground support roles). A level of equality I would hardly call toast.

After the fact, lack of air superiority would make each and/or either side "toast"

[defendandprotect]

56. Without arms supplied by MIC, Gaddafi would be toast -- and on trial by now ....

[defendandprotect]

55. Not true -- protesters came all the way to Sirte previously, taking Misrata .....

until Gaddafi went for genocide using planes and heavy artillery --

Granted, they needed help and they've gotten it -- but w/o genocide

Gaddafi couldn't hold anything -- and not either without being heavily

armed by these same people -- UK, French, Russia -- USA -- who are now

evening out the tremendous advantage their weapons gave to Gaddafi.

[mazzarro]

48. So when the rebels attack, are they not attacking civilian sites as well?

Not that there is any love for Gaddafi here, but lets not try to hide the fact that this war by the west and NATO is more of a revenge than anything else. Otherwise why is same not applicable to Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Syria, or even Israel. All these have attacked civilians repeatedly before and even now!

[dipsydoodle]

49. This part provides an answer for you

"starve out the regime forces in Sirte, who do not have the stockpiles of supplies needed to weather a prolonged siege."

Fuck knows how they starve out one section of a community without adversly affecting all others.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

51. Put the whole town under siege

The occupants with guns will not be the first to starve.

:hi:

[dipsydoodle]

52. My thoughts too.

:hi:

btw : seen this -

New Libyan rebel leader spent much of past 20 years in suburban Virginia
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4789414

[defendandprotect]

60. Would presume that with some cover the citizens will escape ....

and the forces still in Sirte -- army? -- mercenaries? -- may begin to defect --

what would you do at this point?

[dipsydoodle]

61. It's worth remembering

That their large towns are largely surrounded by desert and to use the highways by car needs fuel which they may not have. Desert night times are cold too.

[defendandprotect]

62. Anti-G rebels were slowed because of lack of fuel ...

wonder how Pro-G forces in Sirte are doing in that regard?

They may have similar problems and be unable to leave?

Also, recall back a ways in this, the protesters were trying to

develop a relationship with the people of Sirte and it was looking

pretty good.

Imagine that the protesters need some new recruits, as well --

exhaustion levels must be very high. Misrata doesn't look like

they will be able to supply any new fighters -- and same for

Ajdabiya --

Can only hope that perhaps the pro-G forces there IF they know that

rebels are nearing them may not be in a mood to do any more killing.

They've been told these are "terrorists" -- "Al Qaeda" -- though

what they actually believe and know is hard to say.

If there is any regularly army there, perhaps they will switch sides.

[defendandprotect]

57. This looks positive ... let's take them one at a time --

[pampango]

53. "Amidst all the dramatic headlines about the rebel advances in Libya, two things are clear."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12884518

Firstly, that the rebel forces still have a very limited offensive punch; Libyan government units seem to have dissolved in front of them rather than being defeated in battle.

Secondly, the retreat of the Libyan government troops has been prompted by the damage that they have sustained from the air. We do not know how extensive the air attacks have been but they clearly have dented the morale of Libyan government forces.

A major conference involving the coalition countries and the Arab League is to be held in London on Tuesday.

Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is casting himself in the role of mediator to attempt to bring about a ceasefire. Turkey may have been on the sidelines up to now, but it could be the country to watch as the diplomatic moves unfold.

Turkey is a member of Nato. Ankara is unhappy with the air strikes, believing that a no-fly zone is one thing, striking ground targets in a Muslim country quite another. It is also angered by the leading role France has played since the outset, having been excluded from the Paris summit a little over a week ago.

There is also simmering resentment in Ankara at the long-standing opposition of the Paris government to Turkey's EU ambitions. Most of all, Turkey is fast becoming the key regional player. France may have had a key part in the opening moves of the Libyan crisis. But the Turkish government is positioning itself to play a leading role in the endgame.

[defendandprotect]

58. Turkish government seems anxious to save something for Gaddafi ...