Plant Radiation Monitor Says Levels Immeasurable

[DeSwiss]

Source: NHK

Plant radiation monitor says levels immeasurable

NHK
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 19:51 +0900 (JST)



A radiation monitor at the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says workers there are exposed to immeasurable levels of radiation.

The monitor told NHK that no one can enter the plant's No. 1 through 3 reactor buildings because radiation levels are so high that monitoring devices have been rendered useless. He said even levels outside the buildings exceed 100 millisieverts in some places.

Pools and streams of water contaminated by high-level radiation are being found throughout the facility.

Read more: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/05_38.html

[Botany]

1. Localized Critical Reactions

aka one or more reactors are melting down.

[DeSwiss]

5. I think that's a fair assumption. n/t

[freshwest]

42. Oh, that's just peachy!

[axollot]

99. yup. It's clear there have been chain reactions due to the presence

of Chlorine - 38 <--has extra neutron which can only come from a chain reaction.

[Poll_Blind]

2. Wow, I just went to the site and you weren't shitting. DAMN.

PB

[DeSwiss]

6. Yes. Damn, indeed. n/t

[Auntie Bush]

9. It's really getting scary!

Of course it is for the Japanese...but now I'm afraid there will be harmful effects on many other countries around the world... including US! :scared:

[thereismore]

26. If the Japanes had converted to Christianity this would not have happened!

:sarcasm:

[queerart]

40. Indeed.....

... and here's one story.....


http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/jacobs-god-using-earthquake-break-japans-pagan-idolatry

[freshwest]

43. Oh, FFS!

[Mnemosyne]

85. It truly is a nightmare, Auntie.

:hug::hi:

[Marblehead]

3. Doesn't sound good at all

[DeSwiss]

7. No, and they could use some good news for a change. n/t

[WheelWalker]

4. That's the trouble with tribbles. nt

[DeSwiss]

8. Radioactive Tribbles, especially. n/t

[bongbong]

10. Interesting juxtaposition

You make an interesting juxtaposition, or rather an interesting choice of words, in bringing up Star Trek. A nuclear plant meltdown will, if not now, eventually kill a huge amount of earthlings. If not a nuke plant meltdown, a nuclear war of any size. Combine that fact with the Fermi Paradox, and that nuclear power development would probably happen on any planet at the same time that serious space travel developed.

Thus, an argument can be made that NO civilization ANYWHERE in the universe will ever get off their home planet and/or solar system. Star Trek would be science fiction on EVERY planet.

[Vinnie From Indy]

11. Yep!

It could be that the rise of intelligent life anywhere in the universe is always doomed to self-destruction.

[WheelWalker]

13. One understanding I've come to through this is that if human civilization stumbles or fails,

there is no going back to a more primitive condition. To the extent the failure of civilization involves even a modest period of no cooling for the hundreds of nuclear power plant reactors and tons of spent fuel, as human civilization stumbles, the planet will probably quickly become uninhabitable for a whole lot of life forms, including ours.

[freshwest]

44. You're forgetting Kochroaches will survive. They're not human.

[DeSwiss]

12. I've always found.....

...the Fermi-Hart Paradox to be an arrogant assumption that we're worthy of knowing.

- Considering our violent history there's little doubt in my mind why extraterrestrials would want to avoid us.

[zeemike]

36. I would think it more likely they would want to quarantine us.

Keep us from strewing our violence across the universe.

[freshwest]

63. Which some woo-woo folks say now. I can't argue with that notion.

[caseymoz]

15. A couple of faulty assumptions.

We really don't know why we can't spot intelligent life. It might be rare enough that such civilizations are too far apart. It might be that signs of it aren't as easy to read as we thought. It might be that in our locale in space all civilized life developed at about the same time and can't see or hear each other yet. It might be a bunch of other things.

Either way, there wouldn't be a Star Trek future. Star Trek isn't science fiction now. It's fantasy. Space travel has proved to be much more daunting than depicted there. In fact, the greatest failure of the 20th century was the inability to move humankind into space. We had a civilization that banked on it, that sent economic growth an environmental damage into hyperdrive, but couldn't develop the hyperdrive that would enable us to escape the damage.

I wouldn't count on nuclear power having destroyed every ET civilization. Our faulty nuclear plant design was made by the military and then handed over to private industry which made no real improvements for civilian operation. It probably wouldn't play out that way for every intelligent life form.

[bongbong]

24. But some reasonable assumptions

Evolution probably is a fact of life :) on every planet that develops life. One key part of evolution is some form of competition, weeding out the less-able species and/or mutations. It is thus reasonable to assume the dominant life form that ends up "ruling" any planet will be highly competitive. It would have to be to "beat" the other species on that planet. And you need to become the dominant life form on any planet to get anywhere near the technological level for space travel.

Thinking life on other planets will resemble ours (not talking about the physical form, of course) is NOT a phenomena of thinking we're "special". In fact, it is exactly the opposite. My opinion is that we are strictly average on a cosmological level, so that means that other civilizations will resemble ours in their overall gestalt. Ironically, thinking other planet's civilizations WON'T resemble ours requires one to think we are "extra-special"!

[caseymoz]

37. Yes, and what you say here is reasonable.

I don't think I mentioned anything about extraterrestrial life resembling us, though. In fact, I agree with you, except I have different argument. From an engineering standpoint, intelligent life has to resemble us. First it has to be bilateral, since any macroscopic animal living on land has to either swim, crawl or walk. The latter requires pairs of walking legs, and they have to be paired. Putting them in threes won't work. Bilateralism requires that the sensory organs be located up at the head, which by necessity, also has to have the brain.

It has to have a means of manipulating things. I swear, what actually puts us above other animals is not our mighty brains, the functions of which other animals have been able to duplicate, and even do better. No, it's our hands and opposable thumbs. It has to have sharp eyes, and therefore, the ability to visualize, because you can't learn to manipulate by smell alone.

So, there's a good chance they'll strongly resemble us through divergent evolution. You can't tell if we're average or not, can't really make an estimate, but I begin to think it doesn't matter. We're not moving out into space anyway, and most likely, nothing else is going find us this eon. However, it's interesting.

[caseymoz]

38. Dupe-- delete

I don't think I mentioned anything about extraterrestrial life resembling us, though. In fact, I agree with you, except I have different argument. From an engineering standpoint, intelligent life has to resemble us. First it has to be bilateral, since any macroscopic animal living on land has to either swim, crawl or walk. The latter requires pairs of walking legs, and they have to be paired. Putting them in threes won't work. Bilateralism requires that the sensory organs be located up at the head, which by necessity, also has to have the brain.

It has to have a means of manipulating things. I swear, what actually puts us above other animals is not our mighty brains, the functions of which other animals have been able to duplicate, and even do better. No, it's our hands and opposable thumbs. It has to have sharp eyes, and therefore, the ability to visualize, because you can't learn to manipulate by smell alone.

So, there's a good chance they'll strongly resemble us through divergent evolution. You can't tell if we're average or not, can't really make an estimate, but I begin to think it doesn't matter. We're not moving out into space anyway, and most likely, nothing else is going find us this eon. However, it's interesting.

[abqmufc]

50. Disclosure Project anyone?

I guess to me it is more of can a government(s) control a story so much that the truth becomes buried right in front of us? If you look at the Disclosure Project it gives a compelling case to much of what you discuss.

Can the government keep the lid on something for this long? I would tend to say yes. Reflecting on my childhood I tend to believe it even more, my father worked for NASA for over 30 years. He was stationed at Wright-Patterson, then Lewis Research Center.

The premise of the Disclosure Project is, if we trusted men and women to be FAA air traffic controllers, military contractors, nuclear scientists, senior ranking members of the military (who were in charge of nuclear weapons), etc why do we write them off when they are willing to testify in front of Congress to their activity or knowledge with E.T.'s and UFOs?

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

[DeSwiss]

58. Events are going to force it. n/t

[caseymoz]

65. Unless that light barrier is more flexible than Einstein thought . . .

. . . there's nothing getting to this planet, and even Einstein's remotest conjectures are proving right today. One thing he was insistent about, the light barrier is unbreakable.

What does actually happen is, under certain conditions, people will hallucinate. A fan going at a certain speed at a certain proximity will cause people to see ghosts, hear voices, and be scared, along with anything hitting the right infrasound frequency. Lightning can create magnetic effects on the brain that cause people to hallucinate, hence stories about ball lightning, which is actually a hallucination caused by lightning striking within a thousand yards flashing at a certain magnetic frequency.

So, what were all those guys you mentioned surrounded by much of the time? Vacuum tubes. That's what was different this century than previous ones. Plus power lines and transformers. Plenty of somewhat high-power magnetic disturbances, sometimes right next to their heads, and they didn't know any better.

And I find that much more likely than any visiting ET covered up by the government. Because the effects of magnetic fields on the brain have been proved. Hallucinating people have been proven to exist. Visiting ET's haven't been proven to exist and there's no scientifically/technologically viable way for them to get here.

Although ET's are more exciting.

Sorry, I know you're going to refuse to believe any of this, but I thought I'd put my alternate explanation out there.

[abqmufc]

71. but then you expect all life to be limited to our intelligence?

I am curious. Maybe Einstein was our smartest man, but maybe he would have an average mind in another E.T. culture. Just a thought.

It is not that I disagree with your thoughts, they are valid. I feel we base our beliefs on our experience. My experience was growing up in the 70s with a dad that worked for NASA. I grew up with astronauts and scientists (like Dr. Sagan) visiting my house, and meeting them when I traveled with my dad during the summer. Stuff they said could be taken as a complete joke, that they were pulling my leg....but the more I look at it (now at age 40) I wonder. Of course I have nothing more than antidotal proof. But I've always like Dr. Sagan's comment 'we have to be pretty arrogant species to think this is it, that out of all the planets in the solar system where are the only one to have life? The numbers make that illogical.'

You talk about no proof, but I'd argue the government and others have spent a lot of time dispelling the proof that does exist (be it Roswell, Swamp Gas, Project Bluebook, Space Shuttle sightings). And Disclosure Project does (at least to me) make a compelling argument as to why it is vital to keep it under wraps.

To be honest I appreciated the change in topic (form nuclear fallout from Japan) in the thread.

cheers.

[caseymoz]

79. I didn't say were the only planet to have life, or intelligent life.

I said that it's impossible for intelligent life to reach other intelligent life. To clarify, I said "visiting ET's" don't exist, but ET's definitely do. Given the size of just this galaxy alone and the number of stars, it's a certainty.

The problem is we're scattered too sparsely over vast reaches of space, and the travel time of any radio wave or light beam would make even conversation impossible. I'm skeptical that we'll ever discover them or vice-versa.

As for an advanced civilization having somebody more intelligent than Einstein, I'll resort to analogy: if a door is shut and locked, it doesn't matter if you ask a smart guy or a smarter guy if it is. Even if there's a greater intelligence, it's not a good bet to think their answer will be the one you want the most of all possible outcomes. That's literally like betting the roulette wheel, thinking that a truly loving god won't let you lose. I'm not saying you can't win . . . one out of 32 times.

I wouldn't stress about their not being ET's though. However, it makes for some great fiction, so I love it.

[Oak2004]

93. Thing is there are theoretically possible ways to go faster tham light

They are well beyond our current abilities. They may be beyond any life form's abilities to exploit, ever. But they do exist. The warp drive may never exist in practice, but it is theoretically possible without shredding Einstein. It just requires an obscene amount of energy or a piece of exotic matter, as best we can tell.

[caseymoz]

101. I call that speculative physics.

You're talking about things that have never been observed, never tested, and for the most part, aren't testable. And it's trying to harness obscene amounts of energy that got us into the trouble were having in Japan. I hate to say that the obscene energy requirements probably makes interstellar space travel untenable. Anything requiring us to harness an obscene amount of energy is going to require an obscene amount of resources to contain and not kill us first.

[Tunkamerica]

29. The universe is a big place. Any number of races could make it

just out of the blind luck of never having a catastrophe happen. Even if 99.9999% have a catastrophic event the scope is so large that some would make it. And assuming that a catastrophic nuclear event would necessarily end all space flight is an assumption I would not make.

[girl gone mad]

68. I remember doing Drake equations..

in first year astronomy.

My outcomes always resulted in virtually no chance of making alien contact precisely because civilizations tend to collapse so quickly.

[JJW]

14. Totally Out Of Control

but don't tell anyone because we don't have anywhere to go.

[DeSwiss]

16. At some level, I think everyone realizes.....

...that this is out of control. But to avoid going off screaming into the night we're all in some level of denial about it. And it's exactly because of what you've said. We realize "we don't have anywhere else that we can go."

So it's easier not to think about it, and what we're doing to ourselves -- along with every other living thing on the planet.....

[marions ghost]

17. gimme some of that good ol denial

:beer:

[Downwinder]

35. Think I'll go reread "On The Beach."

[freshwest]

47. Unless we believe in The Rapture or Ascension or some other form of escapism.

As a species we're going to be learning the hard way we are all one.

[valerief]

18. I wonder how soon they'll build new reactors at Fukushima. Cuz they will.

Cuz they don't care about people.

[DeSwiss]

22. No one will even be able to get near.....

...Fukushima for a long time with radiation levels where they are now. And I also have doubts about anyone building reactors in Japan -- ever.

Let us hope that this tragedy will put an end to this madness.

[closeupready]

23. It won't. If there's money to be made, they'll be back at it.

If not tomorrow, then sometime soon.

[DeSwiss]

25. I don't think so.

Just a hunch. ;)

[abqmufc]

52. National Energy Sacrifice Area, it worked for Nixon....

I came across such references (as the one below) in numerous books, reports, websites, etc when I was working on my Master's thesis on "Impacts to Native Americans from the Nuclear Era." I have searched high and low for the actual Executive Order and I cannot find it. However, having lived on the Colorado Plateau (Four Corners Region) for more than 15 years I can attest to the fact that this is the mindset of all those who live here, and it has been that way since the 1950s. An internet search for "national energy sacrifice area" does produce quite a bit of info.

"In 1972, President Richard Nixon signed a secret Executive Order declaring this four State region to be a “National Sacrifice Area for the mining and production of uranium and nuclear energy.” "

The logic behind this was it was Indian land, with no taxes, no public health laws, no environmental laws, and little worker safety laws and a lot of fossil fuels and uranium.

I could see a bunch of capitalist driven politicians and business folks having the logic that the area in Japan is so contaminated it might as well house every industrial waste facility and energy production facility for all of Japan. I could even see some businessman claiming this part of Japan that is so contaminated become the "energy sacrifice area" for all of Asia.

When it comes to money and power nothing surprises me. I do hope you are correct.

[Downwinder]

88. Is your thesis available?

[abqmufc]

100. ??? if so via NAU.

Northern Arizona University

"Traditional Indigenous Ecological Knowledge and Environmental Collaboration - Bridging the Past to the Future", 2000

Not sure if it would be in the archives of the library or not. I never got it published, it ended up being a rushed job. It should have been a dissertation b/c of what I hope to achieve and thus never felt good about the end result.

I made the claim that environmental collaboration (dispute resolution) was the best venue for Federally Recognized Indian Tribes to address the concerns, issues, and impacts they have with the nuclear industry.

However, any venue must accept Traditional Indigenous Ecological Knowledge as real science, equal to that of Western Science. Environmental collaboration was the most likely place this would occur (never in Congress or Courts).

I looked at the mining impacts of the Navajo Nation and the impacts of the Nez Perce Tribe from the Hanford facility and from potential nuclear transport of waste to Yucca through both Tribes sovereign nation.

If you are looking for a good book or two,

(I by no means endorse amazon...but it sure is easy to point you to them for the books)

If You Poison Us: Uranium and Native Americans
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1878610406/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0JHCN6R4WZW6FHXNSPW0&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

Ecocide of Native America: Environmental Destruction of Indian Lands and Peoples
http://www.amazon.com/Ecocide-Native-America-Environmental-Destruction/dp/0940666529/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302127051&sr=8-1

The Tainted Desert: Environmental and Social Ruin in the American West
http://www.amazon.com/Tainted-Desert-Environmental-Social-American/dp/0415917719/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302127284&sr=1-1

[thereismore]

28. You know that there are electricity-producing reactors at Chernobyl, right? nt

[DeSwiss]

30. Yes.

But http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x570348">5 and 6 are now also flooding and could lose their cooling systems. So they could go critical as well.

[former9thward]

34. Chernobyl has been completely shut down.

Last reactor went off line in 2000.

[thereismore]

45. Oh good. I must have been reading old reports. nt

[valerief]

31. Yeah, like the US kept people away from the BP spill. Like they really care. nt

[valerief]

32. That's like hoping the obscenely rich will share the wealth willingly. nt

[freshwest]

49. Oh, they have a great track record for doing just that!

:sarcasm:

[abqmufc]

53. Hanford, Rio Puerco Nuclear Spill (NM)...

People still lives close to the Hanford Nuclear Facility despite it being the largest nuclear waste site in the world. And despite there have been numerous releases in the air and water. Numerous reports confirm a terrible ecological disaster still exists at the facility, but people live near, many eat Chinook Salmon which spawn near the nuclear facility, and most get their WA apples from this part of WA (even organics).

Here is a link to describe what actually is the worse nuclear accident in the USA. It was not Three Mile Island. I cant attest that the groundwater is still polluted, surface water is still contaminated, there is radioactive dust around this area (Church Rock, NM), and I can attest people still live near this area and they live off the land (farm, herd cattle). In addition to this spill there are still well over 250 uranium tailings piles still on Navajo Nation land. People still live near them, their cattle graze on the grass growing on the piles.

The US government has shown little regard for public safety when it comes to radionuclide exposure.

http://www.examiner.com/energy-policy-in-san-francisco/the-worst-nuclear-accident-u-s-history-july-16-1979-navajo-reservation

The Largest Nuclear Accident in the United States

Thanks to its location between the United States' media capital, New York City, and its political capital, Washington, D.C., as well as the coincident opening of the movie "The China Syndrome," Three Mile Island was America's best-publicized nuclear accident. It was not the largest such accident.

The biggest expulsion of radioactive material in the United States occurred July 16, 1979, at 5 a.m. on the Navajo Nation, less than 12 hours after President Carter had proposed plans to use more nuclear power and fossil fuels. On that morning, more than 1,100 tons of uranium mining wastes -- tailings -- gushed through a packed-mud dam near Church Rock, N.M. With the tailings, 100 million gallons of radioactive water gushed through the dam before the crack was repaired.

By 8 a.m., radioactivity was monitored in Gallup, N.M., nearly 50 miles away. The contaminated river, the Rio Puerco, showed 7,000 times the allowable standard of radioactivity for drinking water below the broken dam shortly after the breach was repaired, according to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The few newspaper stories about the spill outside of the immediate area noted that the area was "sparsely populated" and that the spill "poses no immediate health hazard."

Since 1950, when a Navajo sheepherder named Paddy Martinez brought a strange-looking yellow rock into Grants, New Mexico from nearby Haystack Butte, the area boomed with uranium mining. Grants styled itself "the Uranium Capital of the World," as new pickup trucks appeared on the streets and mobile-home parks grew around town, filling with non-Indian workers. For several years, before the boom abruptly ended in the early 1980s, many workers in the uranium industry made $60,000 or more a year. The local newspaper displayed an atomic logo, and blamed the publicity that followed the spill on "Jane Fonda and the anti-nuclear weirdos have scared the hell out of people . . ."

While no one in New York or Washington, D.C., had much to worry about, the Navajo and white residents of the Rio Puerco area did. The area is high desert, and the Rio Puerco is a major source of water. The Los Angeles Times sent a reporter, Sandra Blakeslee, to the area a month after the spill occurred. By that time, United Nuclear Corp., which owns the dam, had cleaned up only 50 of the 1,100 tons of spilled waste. Workers were using pails and shovels because heavy machinery could not negotiate the steep terrain around the Rio Puerco. The cleanup was limited and frustrating. Where were clean-up crews going to put 1,100 tons of radioactive mud, when the next substantial rain would leach it back into the river course?

Along the river, officials issued press releases telling people not to drink the water. They had a few problems; many of the Navajo residents could not read English, and had no electricity to power television sets and radios. Another consumer of the water -- cattle -- don't read. An unknown number of livestock died from consuming radioactive water.

John Bartlitt, of New Mexico Citizens for Clean Air and Water, expressed perplexity over the lack of attention paid to the accident. About 80 percent of the radioactivity in uranium ore remains in the tailings, he said. "The radioactivity which remains in a pile of tailings after 600 years is greater than that remaining in power-plant water after 600 years," Bartlitt said.

http://ratical.org/radiation/UraniumInNavLand.html

[valerief]

94. Wow! Thanks. nt

[thereismore]

27. TEPCO already wanted to restart No. 5 and 6. No source. nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. Pacific Ocean is 7.8 million times higher than the acceptable safety limit and getting worse

[mysterysoup]

20. That's not the whole Pacific Ocean. Yet.

[freshwest]

48. How does anyone come up with a figure of 7.8 million times? How can anyone know that?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

90. sorry meant 7/8 million

[damntexdem]

21. For the workers, after a given level, it doesn't matter.

They'll be just as dead no matter what the level.

But it would be good for experts to be able to know the levels -- to figure out how toast the rest of us are.

[former9thward]

33. What a ridiculous OP

If workers were "exposed to immeasurable levels of radiation" they would be dead within minutes.

[DeSwiss]

39. If you'll click the link.....

...you'll see that the OP's title (that would be me) :) is EXACTLY as written by the Japanese public news service, NHK.

I don't write the headlines I just post them. Occasionally.

[former9thward]

41. I am not criticizing you,

And maybe in the translation from Japanese something got messed up. But it is just a fact that people would die within minutes if exposed to that type of radiation. To date no one has died of radiation exposure. The two that did die at the reactor died in the tsunami.

[DeSwiss]

I think its a translation imbroglio.

It's happening more and more as the world gets smaller and smaller. At least we're still talking to each other, even though we don't always get it just right. ;)

[freshwest]

64. Yes, got that right!

[freshwest]

61. I wonder if something was lost in translation. 'Immeasurable' because the devices broke?

So they can't measure that level. Could be just a tad higher.

It may be just that simple, not that it's extremely high, maybe? I'm not mocking the piece, but perhaps that's all that it means.

Not being hopeful either, because it may mean exactly as many people will take it.

Although I'd say it's just going to be life on Earth from now on out.

Between the depleted uranium tossed around like rose petals, the DNA altering chemicals we're being dosed with, polluted water, air and food, we're pretty well screwed.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

91. "immeasurable" because it's higher than the gieger counter can measure..is it off the scales?

[marions ghost]

46. so

are they abandoning those reactors then? Is that what this is saying?

[DeSwiss]

62. Nope, not yet.

Although http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x570425">Arnie Gundersen says they "have to" keep pouring on the water. They don't have a choice. I think he's saying this because I don't think they know what happens if they can't keep it cooled down.

On our side of the planet, we called a full core meltdown the "China Syndrome" because they said it would burn straight through the earth to the other side. But no one ever gave a name for it when it happens in reverse. Nebraska Syndrome? Iowa? Texas?

[golfguru]

51. Nuked Hiroshima...as it looks today

[marions ghost]

54. and so

it will all be fine. The End.

This is the kind of thinking that brought us this tragedy.

[freshwest]

57. Aww.

[zogofzorkon]

55. It positivily glows. A poster child for nuclear annihilation and rebirth.

[freshwest]

59. Yes, it's lovely. Wonder what the Japanese were whining about. They can shut up now.

[formercia]

60. Hiroshima was an Airburst

The fireball didn't touch the ground and there was little fallout.

Today, were talking about many, many tons of radioactive and long-lived isotopes that will contaminate areas and make the unlivable for hundreds if not thousands of years.

[DeSwiss]

66. Looks pretty don't it?

It cost about 140,000 lives and flattened the city. And of course we know where most of the radioactivity from Little Boy went. it's in the nature of bombs to explode so it mostly went into the atmosphere.

But it's not the same when you have tons upon tons of plutonium in an uncontrolled meltdown spewing neutrons and alpha, beta and gamma particles every which way. Japan sits upon three major tectonics plates all of which are constantly spewing steam from the earth -- all for free. And as an island nation, it is surrounded by the oceans and their constant moon driven tides. That's for free as well.

All of these natural sources of energy, in addition to the availability of the sun (free too!) -- would very likely replace the nuclear fuel now burning out of control in those tsunami-battered nuclear reactors right now.

- When we we ever learn? Or should I ask, will we ever learn, before we kill ourselves?

[marions ghost]

86. +++++

right, Japan has infinitely better resources for power generation. It was once a paradise and could still be. Now parts of it will be a nuclear garbage dump.

Will Japan (and others) learn from this? The jury is out.

[girl gone mad]

69. Apples to oranges.

This comparison is incredibly silly.

[golfguru]

83. There were a million articles published on Hiroshima

after the bomb fell and 99.9% summed by saying
it will never be inhabitable. All proven wrong!
Hiroshima is a thriving city today!

And then I have some pictures of Detroit. Looks
like a nuke just hit the city!

[Downtown Hound]

81. LOL. Stick to playing golf. n/t

[golfguru]

84. Golf is expensive!

But thanks to my success in my jobs, I can afford it.
It is by far the best sport invented! It gives you
6 to 7 miles of walking in fresh air surrounded by green
trees and green grass. You are in the company of friends
and there is tremendous variety since the shots always
end up somewhere different each time.

[grahamhgreen]

97. WOW - Maybe they can nuke my house!

:sarcasm:

Wind is cheaper, nukes are a fool's errand.

[flamingdem]

56. The hits just keep coming, how can it get worse

... well there is that little problem of corium and where it might end up and the reaction it might have upon encountering concrete or h2o

[DeSwiss]

67. I take it you've not heard of.....

...http://www.theopensource.tv/articles/read-edgar-cayce-japan-tsunami-and-mt-etna_56.html">Edgar Cayce?

Before you click the link, remember you did ask how it could get worse......

[flamingdem]

73. In his honor I will mix a strong Martini, I need it after reading that! nt

[DeSwiss]

75. Just go with the flow.

- It'll be over before you know it....

[flamingdem]

77. Radiation from Fukushima Analysis - much more than was released from Chernobyl and TMI

Very dry compared to Cayce but quite terrifying nonetheless.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x286074

[Lorien]

89. The past 12 years have taught me never to ask that question. nt

[questCorp]

70. One of the last Radnet stations in So. Cal has been taken offline.

One of the last EPA Radnet monitoring stations in Southern California (Riverside, CA) has been taken down after showing very large readings (100+ BPM) throughout the morning. Plume trajectories predicted West Coast landfall, of radioactive particles, today April 5th-7th.

UPDATE 12:34 PST: The monitor is now back up showing a reading of approx 30 bpm. San Bernardino and Las Vegas are still showing BPM of 130+. Radiationnetwork.com has taken down all of their Southern Californian monitors.

http://www.adtorrent.com/2011/03/26/assess-the-fukushima-danger-for-your-self-tools-and-resources-for-an-informed-decision/

[DeSwiss]

72. I think we need to have.....

...independent resources for the collection of this radioactivity data because I am concerned about the possibility of the federal government downplaying crucial information in order to placate TPTB (The Rich). Especially not a government who (in the midst of this horror) seems to me to be downplaying its significance and telling everyone that everything is going to be just fine and that it'd never happen here and not to worry. All the while they are actively cheer-leading for the nuke boys and promoting the building of more of these poison pits. The nuke boys are trying to spin this as a serious problem but nothing they can't handle, because they've got a supporter in the WH and they don't want to lose their momentum since he's promised them so much help $$$.


The Geothermal Resource

The amount of heat within 10,000
meters (about 33,000 feet) of
Earth's surface contains 50,000
times more energy than all the
oil and natural gas resources
in the world. http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/technology_and_impacts/energy_technologies/how-geothermal-energy-works.html">link


:) - And welcome to DU!

[flamingdem]

76. We need to hammer the WH that nukes are no longer an acceptable path

and it should not be that hard to convince at this point.

Markey the congressman from Mass. has a bill for a moratorium, worked after TMI

[DeSwiss]

78. And everyone wonders why.....

...the MSM doesn't seem to be covering this story like al-Jazeera and RT are. Have you noticed that almost all the video clips and news reports are coming mainly from these two sources? Where would we be now without their reports? And more to the point, why is that?

It's a question of ownership. Sure al-Jazeera and RT want to smash the MSM's face in it, that's the nature of the beast. If we are more well-informed as a result, then so be it. But TPTB own the networks and thus they own the news and what gets seen and heard. And they don't want anyone getting all excited and bent out of shape about their next federal government ripoff with this nuclear industry bailout the President is proposing -- and so the MSM (as always on important issues not involving Charlie Sheen), are remaining quiet as the grave about the horror happening in Japan right now. I don't know how these so-called "reporters" sleep at night.

- Well not the ones at Fox, not having a conscience and/or just being an idiot is a prerequisite for being hired by Fox, but the others....

[flamingdem]

80. Worst environmental catasrophe ever and on the back pages already

.. and not close to being resolved! They act as if it is..

I'm guessing there are a lot more already sick in Japan than are being reported as well.

Meaning Japan and the USA both have an interest in keeping this low profile.

[girl gone mad]

92. Look at the history of France's government during Chernobyl.

They lied through their teeth about the fallout because they were more concerned about protecting their nuclear energy sector than protecting their people.

[flamingdem]

74. Did you see that happen? Xenon is moving through apparently nt

[Hannah Bell]

95. bs they're all there.

[Zorra]

82. More lies spread by anti-nuke environmentalist librul hippie communists.

Nuclear power is completely safe.

The radiation is from a solar flare-sunspot degradation in the chronosimplastic infindibulum, and is not harmful.

These hippies need to stop scaring the children.

[DeSwiss]

87. Well this hippie says.....

...that the only way nuclear power is safe is if you're made of lead. Which of course pro-nukeys are at least 90%.

;) - The rest is brass.....

[suffragette]

96. The "ejection of nuclear material" the NRC is noting is likely another factor

NYT got ahold of a March 26 report from NRC with more details.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/world/asia/06nuclear.html?_r=2&hp

The document also suggests that fragments or particles of nuclear fuel from spent fuel pools above the reactors were blown “up to one mile from the units,” and that pieces of highly radioactive material fell between two units and had to be “bulldozed over,” presumably to protect workers at the site. The ejection of nuclear material, which may have occurred during one of the earlier hydrogen explosions, may indicate more extensive damage to the extremely radioactive pools than previously disclosed.



Not noted in the article, but I would think may also account for additional water not inside the reactors being highly radioactive. That water being sprayed and dumped everywhere seems likely to have come into contact with these fragments at some point.

[Towlie]

98. The wording makes it sound like a joke.

"The plant radiation monitor says levels are immeasurable..."

(short pause)

"They're so high that monitoring devices have been rendered useless!"

(audience laughs)