WikiLeaks Suspect Being Moved Out of Quantico

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

WikiLeaks Suspect Being Moved Out of Quantico
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: April 19, 2011 at 3:38 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. officials say the Army private suspected of giving classified data to WikiLeaks is being moved to Fort Leavenworth in Kansas in the wake of international criticism about his treatment during his detention at the Marine Corps base at Quantico, Va.

The officials say an announcement that Army Pfc. Bradley Manning will be moved is expected Wednesday at the Pentagon. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the move has not yet been made public.

Amnesty International has said Manning's treatment may violate his human rights. A committee of Germany's parliament has also protested about his treatment to the White House.

Manning is being held in maximum security in a single-occupancy cell at Quantico, and he is allowed to wear only a suicide-proof smock to bed each night.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/04/19/us/politics/AP-US-US-WikiLeaks-Army-Private.html?_r=2&hp

[sabrina 1]

1. I hope that means better treatment and access by

Amnesty Int., Kucinich and the UN.

If it's true that this is in response to world reaction, it is a good sign.

[Hissyspit]

3. It means he will be where people are less likely to go visit him.

[Scuba]

5. Out of sight, out of mind.

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. He is currently allowed to have visitors

But due to the nature of the crimes he is charged with, those visits are monitored.

[sabrina 1]

6. He has not been convicted of any crime

and there is no reason, other than there is something to hide, for not allowing a member of Congress or a human rights organization official visits. It is reprehensible and frightening to think that a person can be held in this country this way.

[Sporke]

9. Pity...

Brigs have rules. If a person doesn't want to learn those rules the hard way, said person should stay out of brigs. As a general rule, no inmates in the U.S. are allowed private visits, except with their lawyers.

[Hissyspit]

10. Yes, there are now and have never been any innocent persons in prison.

And once there anyone should be able to do to the inmates anything they want. :sarcasm:

I'm sorry if the concept of innocent until proven guilty through due process is an irritant to you, but you will find MOST posters here are not corrupt authoritarians who buy any bullshit talking points that come out of the mouths of members of the military industrial complex.

[sabrina 1]

13. This country has rules, in fact it has laws. And if this government

doesn't want people revealing war crimes, maybe they should stop committing them. If the government would go after the war criminals revealed in the War Logs and the video, they would not have to worry about hiding anything, or going after the messengers. The messengers would have nothing to reveal, if this government abided by the laws of this country.

Manning is a hero. By treating him the way they are, they are simply confirming what people already know, that they havve no intentions of abiding by the laws of this country.

[PufPuf23]

65. Brief and correct Sabrina nt.

[EFerrari]

18. Punitive pre-trial detention, still ILLEGAL in this country. n/t

[freshwest]

21. The hard way? Hurray for brigs then.

Let's send all our kids to one. Lock 'em up naked and don't allow them anything to read or anyone to talk to. That'll teach 'em who's boss. Nice vision for the world.

:sarcasm:

[defendandprotect]

56. We also have the right to protest rules ... and it is that right which has been destroyed!!

[niyad]

78. wow, are you sure you are on the right board? do you have a single friggin' clue about the

treatment of this person who has NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF ANY CRIME??

[Bragi]

79. Hi new poster!

Odd that you have the same crisp, confident, future-predicting and professional writing style as so many others who show up here defending the abuse of Manning. But a big hello anyway.

:hi:

[Demeter]

12. He hasn't even been indicted, let alone tried

not even by the military.

[Pterodactyl]

16. But he has been charged. With a number of crimes.

[freshwest]

20. So, on that basis, we should start the punishment now and not wait for him to be found guilty.

:sarcasm:

[Pterodactyl]

22. No. He should be held until the trial.

The fact that the US abandoned speedy trials a long time ago sucks, but he's active duty military and charged with some serious offenses in a complex case. The sad fact is that it will take a while.

Consider that nutball who shot all those people in Arizona. He was caught at the scene red handed and his trial is still a long way away.

[freshwest]

23. Not being kept the way Manning is. Do you approve of his treatment? EOD.

[Pterodactyl]

25. Yes. He has access to lawyers.

[freshwest]

27. Good bye.

[Pterodactyl]

29. I don't know why so many people are upset about this whole Manning thing.

He's been charged with some serious crimes and he'll get his day in court. If it turns out he didn't mishandle any secret information, he'll go free. I really don't get why people think the government has moved to the punishment phase while charges are still pending.

[Hissyspit]

32. The point is to break him before he gets his day in court.

We understand that you don't understand.

[Pterodactyl]

33. That doesn't make a lot of sense. If the prosecution oversteps, it would jeaprodize the case.

I suspect the government is just keeping him in jail while it builds a case.

[EFerrari]

49. If the prosecution oversteps, who is going to call them to account?

You want to be the judge that screws with the White House? I don't think so.

[defendandprotect]

58. And by then he'd be brain dead -- review the MacDougall's case ... Susan and her husband ...

husband gave in -- and eventually died in prison.

Somehow, Susan managed to fight on - to persist in not lying -- which

they were trying to get her to do.

This rightwing love for TORTURE also amazes me because in the end, the return

of torture will be used against the public -- not simply the isolated claims

of harm done by people like Manning.

Look at Libya -- 40 years of being tortured by Gaddafi.

[sabrina 1]

59. No, you apparently don't get it. It is reported that Manning

is being abused. Several human rights organizations, doing their duty, along with Rep. Kucinich, have requested permission to see if these charges are true. They have been denied those requests.

We, at least on the left, claimed to be against Bush violations of the law regarding these matters. That is the reason why 'so many people are upset'. They were upset when Bush was doing these things, and their principles have not changed because now it is a Democrat.

I hope that explains it for you. We certainly can't depend on the 'right' to protect the human rights of detainees, can we?

[Pterodactyl]

77. Oh, come on now!

Being in jail and on a suicide watch sucks, but that hardly counts as abuse.

[Bragi]

80. You don't understand?

Manning is a whistleblower who exposed war crimes, and you don't understand why people support him?

Hmmmm.

[Pterodactyl]

84. Or maybe a criminal himself for mishandling classifed info.

[freshwest]

19. Agreed.

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Please stop spreading the false claim that he is not allowed visitors. It has been debunked

numerous times on DU.

[sabrina 1]

26. Amnesty International, Dennis Kucinich and the UN

have been allowed in to see him? Since when?

[hack89]

41. They are allowed to visit him - but not on their terms

they can visit but their conversations have to be monitored - which is the norm in every prison and jail in America. They are being denied privileges reserved for lawyers.

[sabrina 1]

53. They are asking for official visits due to the reports of abuse.

If there is not abuse, those requests should have been granted. Apparently there is abuse, making it all the more imperitive that he receive official visits from those entities, unless we on the left now don't care about these things anymore. The Right certainly won't be looking out for anyone's human rights!

If this was during the Bush administration there not be a single excuse made for this outrageous situation by any democrat. Nor should there be now.

[hack89]

61. OK - if you say so.

I don't find allegations of torture persuasive unless the meaning of the word is stretched beyond recognition.

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Here is the correct information:

UN torture expert frustrated at being denied unmonitored visit to WikiLeaks suspect

A U.N. torture investigator said Monday he is frustrated at being denied an unmonitored visit to a U.S. Army private suspected of giving classified material to WikiLeaks.

Juan Mendez said the U.S. government "has not been receptive to a confidential meeting" with Pfc. Bradley Manning. He said in a statement that a monitored conversation would be counter to the practice of his U.N. mandate.

Officials at the U.S. mission in Geneva said they weren't immediately able to comment.

Pentagon spokesman U.S. Marine Col. Dave Lapan said in a statement, however, that Mendez is free to meet with Manning with his consent but said an unmonitored visit can't be guaranteed.

more: http://www.newser.com/article/d9mhokp04/un-torture-expert-frustrated-at-being-denied-unmonitored-visit-to-wikileaks-suspect.html

[sabrina 1]

54. I am very well aware of the correct information. These orgs

have a duty to respond to charges of abuse, as there have been in the case of Manning.

They are being prevented from doing their duty which only confirms the general assumption that Manning is being abused.

You are incorrect to say 'no one is stopping them'. They ARE being stopped, as your own link proves.

An abused detainee cannot speak freely without fear of further abuse, if human rights organizations cannot meet freely with them.

Very sad to see these Bush tactics being excused. I thought we voted for 'change'.

[EFerrari]

28. Last I heard, David House was being prevented from visiting.

What visitors are you talking about?

[Freddie Stubbs]

43. This should clear things up:

UN torture expert frustrated at being denied unmonitored visit to WikiLeaks suspect

A U.N. torture investigator said Monday he is frustrated at being denied an unmonitored visit to a U.S. Army private suspected of giving classified material to WikiLeaks.

Juan Mendez said the U.S. government "has not been receptive to a confidential meeting" with Pfc. Bradley Manning. He said in a statement that a monitored conversation would be counter to the practice of his U.N. mandate.

Officials at the U.S. mission in Geneva said they weren't immediately able to comment.

Pentagon spokesman U.S. Marine Col. Dave Lapan said in a statement, however, that Mendez is free to meet with Manning with his consent but said an unmonitored visit can't be guaranteed.

more: http://www.newser.com/article/d9mhokp04/un-torture-expert-frustrated-at-being-denied-unmonitored-visit-to-wikileaks-suspect.html

[EFerrari]

48. The denial of an official visit with the Special Rapporteur for Torture

is a different issue. That is clearly a violation of the UN Convention against Torture.

[Freddie Stubbs]

50. President Obama has stated that Manning's treatment is appropriate and meets basic standards

As a Noble Peace Prize winner, he likely knows what he is talking about.

[EFerrari]

52. Do you believe everything that authority figures tell you?

Maybe Obama does believe abusing prisoners is appropriate. It's possible, I suppose.

Henry Kissinger also got a Nobel. He was involved in continent-wide torture and assassination program. He knew what he was talking about, too.

This is a description of the abuse at Abu Graib according to a new suit in Ohio:

According to the complaint, during James' tenure at Guantanamo, "boys and men were systematically abused" and were subjected to "rape and death threats" and torture techniques such as "forced nudity; sleep deprivation; extreme isolation; short-shackling into stress positions; and physical assault."

http://www.truthout.org/guantanamo-psychologist-led-rendition-and-imprisonment-afghan-boys-complaint-charges

Sound familiar? It's so nice to see Americans benefiting from our experience overseas, isn't it?

[struggle4progress]

62. House has visited Manning:

... Mr House said that meetings with his friend happen in a visitation room in which the pair is separated by a pane of bullet-proof glass ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9434978.stm

[EFerrari]

66. That article is from March.

What I read, iirc it was in Greg Mitchell's blog, was about the last few weeks. It doesn't matter. I'm sure David House expects to keep being fucked with.

[struggle4progress]

82. I'll try to say this as clearly as possible: in the long run, bullshit really won't help Manning

I have no opinion on whether Manning is guilty as charged. I think the United States has some history of acting as if it were exempt from international human rights standards. I will be gravely concerned if I learn of any real evidence that Manning has been or is maltreated in custody, or is in danger of being maltreated in custody

But any movement, to support Manning, will simply discredit itself if it persists in bullshit, and that won't help Manning at all

Manning's defense requested that the prosecution delay filing formal charges -- and then certain movement elements began to bullshit, claiming the government was delaying the charges for some nefarious reason

There was a suicide at Quantico earlier this year, and a few weeks afterwards Manning made some comment about how easily he could commit suicide, so his jailers took precautions -- and then certain movement elements began to bullshit, claiming these precautions were imposed for some nefarious reason

The UN Rapporteur on Torture was denied an "official" visit with Manning (although Manning's lawyer writes on his blog 'the Government .. will permit an authorized visit with PFC Manning despite the fact that none of these individuals had "established a proper relationship with the prisoner prior to confinement" as required under the Brig rule') -- and then certain movement elements began to bullshit, claiming that the Rapporteur had been denied any visit with Manning

Accuracy matters. Dot the fuggin i's and cross the fuggin t's, whether or not you like it. David House has visited Manning over a dozen times. If you believe Manning is now denied visits from House, take the time to try to provide some evidence: don't make the claim and then turn around and say "It doesn't matter." That's bullshit

[EFerrari]

83. Your misreading is not my bullshit.

I said, the last I heard, David House was being denied visits to Manning.

Show me how that's bullshit, exactly.

Good grief. Before you slander other posters, read, think, get the facts.

[annm4peace]

63. He gets one visitor. One..

And even his one visitor isn't allowed to see him consistently.


Another thing Show me where he is charged. I want to see proof.

[msanthrope]

72. Are you kidding??? The charges are on Manning's own website.

http://www.bradleymanning.org/news/releases/charge-sheet-html

That's the first one, from last July. Here's the second one, with additional charges.

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/03/PFC-Manning_Additional-Charge-Sheet_REDACTED_02MAR11.pdf

That took 5 seconds on google. I mean, really.

[msanthrope]

47. He is allowed visits from all of them--

But they are monitored, as is every other prison visit in America.


It's pretty obvious you've never been to an actual prison.

[sabrina 1]

57. He is being denied what he is entitled to,

as someone whose treatment has been reported as abuse, UNMONITORED visits with human rights organizations.

Stop defending these Bush tactics. Detainees who have been subjected to abuse, cannot speak freely for fear of further abuse if they are being watched. It is ludicrous to see people on the left defending this.

He should be removed from military custody now that they have basically confirmed they are abusing him. If they were not, they would not be refusing what he is entitled to as an innocent person, OFFICIAL visits from human rights organizations to ensure he is not being abused.

Now we know for certain that the charges are true, and Congress needs to start an investigation.

As for your 'assumption', I have visited prisons many times, and was NOT monitored while visiting FYI.

[msanthrope]

60. Perhaps you can cite where he is entitled to unmonitored visits??

An actual law??


Now, you wrote:

"As for your 'assumption', I have visited prisons many times, and was NOT monitored while visiting FYI. "

I think you need to read the signs on the wall.

[PufPuf23]

68. Manning is a whistleblower not a spy that revealed war crimes and

less than good faith dealings by our poor excuses for leadership in the military and DC.

The World and USA would be a better place if we prosecuted War and Financial criminals and quit a lax and uneven enforcement of our legal system.

Why treat Manning this war? He is a whistleblower that embarassed the Pentagon and DC by revealing misdeeds. He did not spy for another country, he provided evidence of war crimes and fraudulent diplomatic activity.

IMHO that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Blair, et al are not prosecuted for admitted war crimes and are off essentially scot-free while Manning, a whistleblower not a spy for another agency, is villified is f*cking sick shit. Manning is what 21?, He is a brave young man and not much more than a child soldier. His superiors that put in in a situation to whistleblow deserve more punishment than Manning.

I am anti-war but not anti-veteran. My Dad spent 3 years in Europe WWII and never mentioned anything about his time on continent except he left for home from Le Harve.

I spent two years in Junior ROTC but by draft age was anti-war and would have taken a non-religious CO or alternative service rather than enter the military during Vietnam but got a plus 300 lottery number. I have been anti-war ever since.

Many of my adolescent friends were killed or disabled or turned anti-social. This is what is happening to our children today in the military. Some of the broken people return a danger to themselves and society. AFAIS there is little glory in war, "win" or "lose".
I have a SIL affected by Gulf War I and other friends with damaged children (from what is an economic draft).

Hey look at the news today!!

General McChrystal who deserve to be shamed and prosecuted over the Tillman cover-up and public insubordinate statements underming the CIC Obama and gawd knows what else --- who amazingly has given the man a new job. In the USA the military has higher priority than People, domestic or foreign, and truth.

We are one f*cked up society and country.

[msanthrope]

69. Perhaps you could cite where he's entitled to unmonitored visits?

Bradley Manning is a child soldier? That's a new one...

[PufPuf23]

70. Manning is entitled to what visits are allowed by the DoD.

Manning exposed the lack of integrity of the DoD and DOS.

Manning is not a child but 21 isn't exacting old and wise.

How do you feel about War Crimes and lies managed as PR policy?

[msanthrope]

73. right--and like every other prisoner in America, he gets monitored visits.

Now, is he claiming he did the leaking?

I mean, has his defense changed??? Is he now claiming he did the leaking?

[PufPuf23]

75. Manning has turned into an International human rights issue and

the USA (to my distress and I hope to yours) does not exactly have a recent good reputation.

IMO the UN, concerned US pols, and the ICC override any requirement of monitored visits because of the actions of the USA DoD and DoJ and our own human rights violations - picture man in hood and box with electrodes attached.

I do not know the specifics of Manning's defense.

IMHO he is a whistleblower unaware and his supervisors are more liable given his age and low rank.

He was not a spy, Manny revealed wrongs doing.

We know that confinement and abuse changes a person, makes them more mallable and extremely lowers self-esteem.

I don't give a flying f*ck who did the leaking; I just do not want any furthur distruction of the USA by liars, cheats, and those capable of violence and cruelty to meet their selfish ends.

[msanthrope]

81. Right. Well, is he a whistleblower?

Is he claiming that the charges are true? Because I haven't seen anything from his attorney that indicates that.

His supporters cannot have it both ways--you cannot credibly claim "well, he didn't do it, and he promises not to do it again!"

Now, again, I'm asking you to cite a law or a coherent reason why Manning should not be treated as every other prisoner in America? Because Dennis Kucinich says so?

[Zorra]

76. Brig Fails to Follow Its Own Rules

Over the past few weeks, the defense has been working to facilitate an official visit for Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Mr. Juan Mendez (the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture), and a representative from Amnesty International. Despite multiple inquires from the defense and the interested parties, the Quantico Brig and the Government have denied the requests for an "official visit."

The Quantico Brig Order P1640.1C, paragraph 3.17 allows two types of visitors for a detainee, "authorized" and "official." The difference between them is described here in the Brig rule. The defense maintains that the critical distinction between the two is that official visits are privileged and not subject to Brig monitoring.

The Government's position is that the above individuals are not entitled to an official visit because none of these individuals are conducting "official government business." Because the Government refuses to allow these visits to take place as an official visit, it indicates that it will generously interpret the provisions with respect to "authorized visits." In particular, it will permit an authorized visit with PFC Manning despite the fact that none of these individuals had "established a proper relationship with the prisoner prior to confinement" as required under the Brig rule. Such an authorized visit, of course, will be subject to Brig monitoring and can be used as evidence against PFC Manning in a court-martial proceeding.
posted by army court-martial defense specialist at 11:24 am

http://www.armycourtmartialdefense.info/2011/04/brig-fails-to-follow-its-own-rules.html

[Eric J in MN]

2. When Bradley Manning got a new warden,

...at Quantico, I was hoping that would mean better treatment. It didn't.

Whether he'll be treated better at Leavenworth has yet to be seen.

[Mnemosyne]

7. K&R for truth. n/t

[Mnemosyne]

8. Oops! n/t

[Demeter]

11. I don't see this as an improvement

Indict or release. There are no other options.

[Robb]

14. Why do you think he hasn't been charged?

The original charges were filed in July 2010. And additional charges were filed last month.

[Demeter]

15. So, the guy is imprisoned without trial for 9 months?

Doesn't say much for the quality of the charges, nor the handling of the case. There used to be laws about this.

[Pterodactyl]

30. 9 months for a trial is not that unusual. Yeah, it sucks, but it is not out of the ordinary.

[Demeter]

35. Sure. Even the Torture Is Standard Practice

[hack89]

44. His lawyer requested a delay to build his case.

Manning is in a tight spot - his lawyer needs all the time he can get to build a half way decent defense.

[msanthrope]

51. Actually, the defense delayed.

They apparently asked for a psych exam in January, and various motions prior.

9 month when your client is facing a DP charge isn't unusual.

[Pterodactyl]

31. Good post, Robb! I'm getting sick of this no-charges stuff!

Honestly, don't these people have access to the internet?

[PufPuf23]

71. I am sick of non-prosecution of War and Financial crimes.

Manning is a whistleblower.

[lovuian]

17. Yes their treatment of Manning was OUTRAGEOUS!!!

and violate his human rights and can be labeled TORTURE

it doesn't help the case against him

[Pterodactyl]

34. Do people think that Manning actually leaked secret information or that he's innocent?

Yes, yes, I know the courts will consider him innocent until proven guilty, but I bet lots of people have opinions. So, did he do it or not? Just wondering.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. One Bozo's opinion - yes, he did it, but ...

Haven't you heard of "DU Nullification"? If a crime is committed, but enough DUers think it was a noble act, then there is no crime. We probably need another poll to sort this out.

Personally, I think he's guilty, but should be given a fairly light sentence. The heavier sentences should go the senior geniuses who gave carte-blanche access to an immature Army private. That was irresponsible. There used to be a concept of "need-to-know" which seems to have fallen by the wayside.

:hi:

[hack89]

45. I think it is pretty clear that he did.

certainly no one has suggested another source of all the classified documents

[dipsydoodle]

36. 'Wikileaks' soldier Bradley Manning moved to new prison

Source: BBC News 20 April 2011 Last updated at 09:34 BST

The US soldier accused of leaking a trove of secret government documents later published by the Wikileaks website is to be moved to a military prison in Kansas, officials have said.

Pte First Class Bradley Manning has been held pending court martial at a Marine Corps base in Virginia.

His transfer comes amid international concern over his treatment.

His supporters say he has been confined to a cell for 23 hours a day and forced regularly to undress.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13138050

[xchrom]

37. Recommend

[Demeter]

38. I'd LIke to Be a Wikileaks Soldier, Too

Where do I enlist? I'd fight for truth and freedom and good government...

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

40. Look up "Army Recruiter" in the yellow pages

the Recruitment Officer awaits your call.

(personally, I don't recommend it. Too many push-ups)

:hi:

[msanthrope]

46. This is amazingly bad news for the defense.

Christ, it puts Coombs in a tough spot. He's got a hard row to hoe on this, and I don't envy him.

Well, Manning can always ask for gen pop, Leavenworth...


Edited to add...jeebus christ. They have him and don't need him.

Moving him to Leavenworth means they have forensic computer evidence to convict, and don't need him for the grand jury. Which means he's worthless as a witness. Oh, crap.

I truly thought his defense attorney would have been smart enough to get him a decent deal.

Or maybe he did deal? I hope he did. Because I don't envy being moved to Leavenworth without a deal.

[defendandprotect]

55. Wonder if Manning has been told yet -- ? Trust he will recover from this -- !!

[annm4peace]

64. Some Hopeful News

Over 30 people in MInneapolis have already signed up to carpool/van or if more join take a bus to Leavenworth.

This is just one City.. just one. There are 1000's of Veterans, and many are Vets for Peace who support and stand with Bradley Manning and demand his release.

[EFerrari]

67. That is good news, Ann. Thank you. n/t

[msanthrope]

74. He's not coming out of prison for decades.

He's only going to move across the facility from pre-trial medium security to post-trial military maximum.