Atheists Seek Chaplain Role in the Military

[alp227]

Source: The New York Times

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. — In the military, there are more than 3,000 chaplains who minister to the spiritual and emotional needs of active duty troops, regardless of their faiths. The vast majority are Christians, a few are Jews or Muslims, one is a Buddhist. A Hindu, possibly even a Wiccan may join their ranks soon.

But an atheist?

Strange as it sounds, groups representing atheists and secular humanists are pushing for the appointment of one of their own to the chaplaincy, hoping to give voice to what they say is a large — and largely underground — population of nonbelievers in the military.

Joining the chaplain corps is part of a broader campaign by atheists to win official acceptance in the military. Such recognition would make it easier for them to raise money and meet on military bases. It would help ensure that chaplains, religious or atheist, would distribute their literature, advertise their events and advocate for them with commanders.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/us/27atheists.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

[vi5]

1. I'm an atheist but this seems silly...

I've never understood atheists trying or wanting to equate themselves with a religion or adopting religious roles or rules or whatever.

If there is a group of atheists inside the military who are fighting for and working for this then it should be available to them as soldiers as it is to every other religion to provide whatever support they as soldiers need to comfort them or help them out with support.

But if this is an outside group trying to get them to put in the military something that no soldiers are asking for and thus may be unlikely to use.....seems silly to me, even as a staunch atheist.

I can't read the article though so I can't tell the full details. But based on what you excerpted.

[Renew Deal]

3. That brings up the question. Is atheism a religion?

I agree. It seems silly.

[petronius]

33. It also raises the question of "what is a chaplain?" and is it appropriate to have

a military job classification that requires religious affiliation?

I would agree that atheism is not, and shouldn't be equated to, a religion, however...

[originalpckelly]

44. God does not exist is a religious spectrum statement.

God may exist also falls into that category.

Do not mistake secularism for atheism. One may hold a religious view and yet believe in secularism, which is a lack of religious spectrum statements.

[Thor_MN]

65. Is Zero a number?

[Lint Head]

4. It is rather silly.

No God is no God therefore no need.

[Duer 157099]

7. Sorry, as an agnostic, I strongly disagree

It's about having someone available for counseling who is NOT religious and who won't just tell you to pray away your problems or that it's God's will for your life or some other bullshit nonsense.

I fully support this! If my son were in the military, I would want this available for him.

[Lars39]

16. I agree.

Being able to talk with someone who is not trying to get or keep you in "the fold" is very important. Maybe they need to aim for the title "Counselor", though.

[vi5]

19. As I said in my post...

if this is something that people in the military are asking for and would like and would utilize as a support network then I'm all for it. Absolutely.

But if it's not, and this is just a way of calling attention or whatever, and nobody will end up utilizing it then I'm not sure what the point is.

[Duer 157099]

23. We're in agreement, essentially

But the fact is that many non-believers are pushed underground in the military, and so would never vocalize the need or desire for this. Only after it becomes available would they likely take advantage of it, imho.

[vi5]

26. Definitely.....

If there's some data out there via surveys or what have you that this would bring atheists in the military a comfort level, even if the members of the military themselves aren't pushing it, then definitely. It's just that it walks that fine line between being something that is legitimately being advocated for because there is some evidence that there is a need for it, and being something that is being done just to prove a point.

Again, I'm as hardcore atheist as they come and I'm a first amendment absolutist on a all levels. It's just one of those things where I sort of cringe when things are done just to prove a point or to equate atheism with religion. I feel the same way about atheists insisting on being included in Christmas displays. If you want to sue to have the displays taken down I'm all for that since it's a violation of the first amendment. But the groups or people who sue instead to have an atheist display along side the Christmas or Hannukah displays......just seem to be trying to prove a point which winds up going over the heads of most people anyway.

[ReggieVeggie]

43. then you could call him counsellor or psychologist

I agree that it would be nice for soldiers to go to someone who wouldn't shove religious dogma down their throats, but an atheist is not a religious person by definition, so trying to become chaplain doesn't really make sense.

[Duer 157099]

46. Yeah, but isn't it funny how there is stigma attached to seeing

a "counsellor" or "psychologist" whereas there's none with talking to a chaplain.

[ReggieVeggie]

50. true enough

nt

[Canuckistanian]

53. Wel then, call them "counselors"

Not "chaplains"

[robinlynne]

13. I'm an atheist and I applaud it. It brings the discussion out of the closet.

Why not have a forum to talk about what we believe in? that's all this appears to be.

[robinlynne]

15. And I would like to know why churches don't pay any taxes?

[freshwest]

57. Uh, oh. You've just entered the twilight zone.

When you ask, 'Why don't churches pay taxes?'

You've just entered the twilight zone. IMHO, they should. But their members will scream bloody murder. And it may even be against the rules here, as it'll be viewed as an attack on religion.

The only practical reason I can see is that they are a backup when governments collapse, although they demand tithe, which are their form of taxing their members. No government has outlasted the major religions, so there may be a point to that.

Their exempt status puts them at level with secular authority, to which I object. Some have abused that privilege.

OTOH, church people have been killed by governments or corporations while governments stood by, because they wouldn't submit to fascists. Others actively promote fascism and destabilize the governments where they live.

There are more 'followers' than agnostics or atheists or otherwise undefined persons, and they are committed more to their social group than they are to government. The more they get prodded, the worse it gets. So governments tread softly around them, usually.

Sorry my attempt to answer your question isn't shorter.

[frebrd]

30. Here's the article as rendered by Skweezer.....

Scroll down. If it doesn't want to load, back out and click on it again.

http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2011%2F04%2F27%2Fus%2F27atheists.html%3F_r%3D2%26partner%3Drss%26emc%3Drss%26pagewanted%3Dall

[vi5]

32. Excellent. Thank you...

It's clear from that article that this is being driven by the active members themselves, which I fully support and am happy about.

[freshwest]

58. Thanks for that. I don't agree with the man in the article who dismissed them.

He said they had no faith. They have faith in something or higher aspirations that don't fit the brand name faiths.

The agnostics and humanists I know are not nihilists, not randians, not uncaring people. They feel left out when they shouldn't be. They are seekers of something, or else they've already found it.

I see nothing wrong with their use of the program to support each other or even help those osing faith in brand name religions, to not commit suicide if they haven't found the answers they need there.

It is wrong to force anyone to accept all the tenets of a certain religion in order to find a caring and wise person to talk to while facing matters of life and death daily.

[defendandprotect]

68. Don't think so -- if you're going to give "god-advice" there should also be "no-god" advice ...!!

[Renew Deal]

2. An atheist chaplain is like an obstetrician for pregnant men.

It makes no sense.

[liberation]

6. because Christian blessings of those bearing arms and conducting warfare makes so much more sense

[jeff47]

12. You misunderstand the role of the chaplain

He's not just a religious figure. He's also used as a social worker and a psychologist. It is not unreasonable for atheists to want someone who fulfills the latter roles without the former role.

[MineralMan]

18. I always found the Jewish chaplain at the bases I was at to

be a good ear. As an atheist, I found them to be the best person to consult for non-military issues. I never had anything but a warm welcome from any Jewish chaplain. I cannot say the same for the Protestant chaplains at the bases where I was stationed, though.

[AlbertCat]

20. He's also used as a social worker and a psychologist.

Then get some of those in, and call them what they are. "Chaplain" implies some god or other.

[24601]

31. The military has plenty of psychologists & social workers who

are not chaplains.

Military chaplains must be endorsed by their faith authority for service in the military. Who accredidates athiests? as their governing body?

[jeff47]

45. The problem is stigma

Going to the psychologists or social workers has a stigma.

Going to the Chaplain does not.

As such, the Chaplain is usually the first stop.

[WolverineDG]

5. Well, there goes the whole "atheism is not a religion" argument

can't have it both ways.

dg

[Moonwalk]

22. And we don't want to have it both ways. Unfortunately, there is no other way to have it-

Think about it this way. You're on an island, and you want to talk to a doctor about your health. A real doctor. But on this island there are only magicians who "heal" with magical rituals. You don't believe in any of his magical rituals. "I want to speak to a doctor," you ask the island tribe. "Sorry," they say, "We only allow the sick to talk to magicians. But," they say, "We have a priest, because priests heal with prayer and that's like being a magician." You shake your head, "A doctor." And they say, 'We have a cabalistic rabbi. He heals using cabalistic rituals."

"Look," you say, "Is there anyway for me to get an actual doctor in the position of magician so I can talk to him?"

And they say, "Sorry, you can't have it both ways. A doctor is not a magician."

Do you get it? Do you see it now? It's not that the atheists want it both ways--it's that there's NO OTHER WAY to get what they want if they don't do it this way. The military says the only way they'll get an Atheist as a councilor for atheists is if they make that Atheist a "chaplain."

You presume that the name is the thing, that because a "chaplain" relates to religion, an atheist "chaplain" must make atheism a religion. But if a doctor comes to our island calling himself a magician, because that's the only way he'll be allowed to heal the sick with real medicine, that doesn't make him a magician, does it? You also keep mistaking the social aspect of religion--people meeting, discussing their ethics and views on the world--as religion. The two are often intertwined, but they're not the same. Just because atheists meet, socialize, discuss ethics and views on the world doesn't mean they believe in a supernatural being or supernatural things like prayers--both necessary to be a religion.

So, please stop trying to make atheists into hypocrites by saying that they are a religion. The most important aspects that make up a religion--belief in the supernatural, belief based on faith rather than fact, doesn't exist for them. They can't be a religion without them.

In short, if the military had another position other than "chaplain" indicating a person who could lead meetings, advice, council, etc., but had no title that implied "religion" then I'm sure the Atheists would go for it. But at this point, the only way they can get their "doctor" on this island is to put him under the title of "magician" even if that isn't what he is. This doesn't mean that the atheism is a religion, nor trying to have it both ways--nor is it silly of the atheists to do this. All this means is they can't get what they want any other way.

[Duke Newcombe]

24. Wow. That rationalization was tortured...

are you sure it isn't only a self-serving justification?

[Moonwalk]

36. I dunno. Was your justification that mine was tortured self-serving?

I offered an explanation that I thought could made the situation clear. I didn't think it was tortured. I didn't think it was irrational. I did think that the person accusing atheists of trying to have it both ways was missing the point, and I tried to make them see that. As for self-serving, no. I'm not an atheist who wants or need to talk to a chaplain, I don't want to be a chaplain, nor do I know anyone in the military atheist or otherwise.

So, it would seem that my explanation was utterly selfless.

[WolverineDG]

27. It is a hypocritical stance

Considering I've seen atheists here call those of us who believe in a Higher Power "child abusers" for simply taking our kids to church or temple, call us "idiots" & "morons" because of our beliefs, & call our religious writings "fairy tales," I'm highly amused that atheists would demand to be named military chaplains. Trying to tell me I'm wrong in pointing out the hypocrisy only tells me that once again, atheists are carving out exceptions for themselves.

dg

[Moonwalk]

39. I'm sorry if atheists were rude to you. Does that justify being rude to atheists who have not--

been rude to you? A lot of atheists have had horrible experiences with religion and religious folk. You seem to be justifying potential injustice and rudeness toward atheists on the fact that they've been rude to you. Perhaps they did the same and justified their rudeness to you on the fact that religious folk were mean to them.

That said, the issue of hypocrisy depends entirely on what "chaplains" in the military do. The military is not a religion, and they do not create chaplains by way of a religious ritual. So this is not the same as an atheist asking to be made a priest in the Catholic Church, which would be ridiculous. What does a chaplain do? If the military says, "All chaplains do is religious rites," then you are correct. Atheists can't ask for one without being hypocritical. However, if the military says, "Those who do x, y, and z--" meaning non-religious functions, "have to be chaplains" then the atheists are correct in saying that the only way they can get "x,y, and z" is by having their own "chaplain" even if he/she has nothing to do with religion.

Let me put it another way. Consider marriage. If marriage was still a purely religious thing which could only be conferred on couples by a priest, then atheists, like gays, couldn't argue their right to marry. The argument would be, "You can't have the benefits of a religious ritual--a marriage ceremony--without following the religion." Right? But in the U.S. marriage is not recognized as only a religious ritual with only religious benefits. Which is why atheists, and gays for that matter, can argue they ought to be allowed to marry. Marriage confers certain legal benefits on the couple no matter what religion they do or do not follow.

Would you say that atheists have carved out an "exception" for themselves by making sure that people who are not priests, who are not religious at all in some cases, can marry them? And confer on them the same legal benefits that all married U.S. citizen get?

So the question is, do those military groups with a chaplain get certain benefit that those without do not get--outside of the right to have someone walk them through a religious ritual? If groups with a chaplain get benefits besides being walked through a religious ritual, and those without a chaplain can't have those benefits, then the atheists are not being hypocritical. It's similar to asking for the right to have one of their own marry them. If marriage is not a purely religious rite, and if it confers on the couple non-religious benefits, why can't they have this?

Again, I'm sorry if certain atheists have been mean or disrespectful to you. I've met too many religious people to count who have been mean and disrespectful to me. Yet I have a sister-in-law who is a minister and I'm never disrespectful of her, and she is not of me. If the tenants of your faith, like those of my sister-in-law, include fairness and justice, then I ask you to look past your anger at those who were unkind to you and consider those in the military--who probably don't know you, and never said a rude thing to you. If all a chaplain does is religious rites, then they shouldn't be asking for this. But if a chaplain brings the group non-religious benefits, then there is nothing hypocritical about for one. It is a semantics problem (titling the office "chaplain"), not a problem of wanting the benefits of a religion without being religious.

[WolverineDG]

41. I have never called an atheist a "child abuser,"

or "idiot" or "moron" just because of their beliefs (religion, really). In fact, until I saw what "liberal" & "progressive" atheists were like here on DU, I had no problems with atheists at all. I know that every group has its own asshats, but the ones who show up regularly on DU are particularly obnoxious, so much so that atheists who are open-minded & respectful of others are often gored by them when they dare to differ with what passes for atheist canon law.

That there are atheists who aren't rude or disrespectful doesn't take away from the fact that asking for a "chaplain" is hypocritical especially since atheists claim their belief system isn't a religion.

On edit, while there are "non-religious" functions performed by chaplains, they are also required to tend to the spiritual needs of service personnel, their families, & the civilians on base. Would an atheist chaplain be willing to do that?

As for marriage, there are non-religious people who can perform those ceremonies (JPs) & if an atheist wanted to get married on base or where there were no JPs, a chaplain could perform the civil ceremony with no offensive religious trappings, as that is part of his/her job. Just like everyone else, all you have to do is ask.

dg

[freshwest]

59. Very well stated.

[and-justice-for-all]

56. No, Atheism is still not a religion..

fair and equal representation, even in this instance, does not negate the fact that Atheism is not a religion.

[semillama]

8. From the article:

"Atheist leaders acknowledge the seeming contradiction of nonbelievers seeking to become chaplains or receive recognition from the chaplain corps. But they say they believe the imprimatur of the chaplaincy will embolden atheists who worry about being ostracized for their worldviews.

Defense Department statistics show that about 9,400 of the nation’s 1.4 million active-duty military personnel identify themselves as atheists or agnostics, making them a larger subpopulation than Jews, Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists in the military.

But atheist leaders say those numbers are an undercount because, they believe, there are many nonbelievers among the 285,000 service members who claim no religious preference on military surveys. Many chaplains dispute that interpretation, and say that most people in that group are religious, just not strongly so. "

I think having a atheist chaplin might be a good thing - especially for those soldiers who are being pressured to conform or convert to a majority faith. Knowing there are others like you and that there is someone in place who can act in a position of support would be very helpful. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they won't need someone to talk to regarding issues relating to faith (or lack there of).

[JonLP24]

34. I was gonna say...

until I read the third paragraph.

I'm most likely agnostic but my dog tags said "No religious preference"

[DavidDvorkin]

9. That's ridiculous.

[MineralMan]

10. Seems silly, and not really news at all.

I'm an atheist, and I can't imagine going to an atheist chaplain while in the military. What would we talk about?

I was one of the first USAF enlisted men to get "Atheist" on my dog tags. There's a possibility that I was the first. It was 1965. Nobody had ever heard of such a thing when I requested it, and I was refused that category. So, I refused the dog tags. I finally had to enlist the help of the Jewish chaplain at Lackland AFB to make it happen. He was helpful. But I don't know how an atheist chaplain would have been of any more help, really.

[boppers]

60. An atheist chaplain could have helped you get the dog tags.

As far as what to talk about, there's lots of struggles, and beauty, and pain in the world, and sometimes it's nice to have a friendly face who you can talk to without being fed religious answers to life's questions.

[patrice]

11. What is the principle upon which chaplaincies are based? Is it that belief-systems are

important to how one functions, especially in conditions of high stress?

Whether atheists say "I do not believe there is a God" or whether they are saying "I believe there is no God", it is not clear whether they hold other beliefs, or not, that make it possible for them to function, beliefs that are not related to God-ness. And I have to ask if it is possible to function in such environments on an "absolutely" empirically rational basis, i.e. without beliefs of some sort.

[MineralMan]

14. The basic reason is to serve the needs of those who

have religious beliefs. They cannot go to a normal church, in many cases, and that's important to many people. The military has always had chaplains to allow people to worship as they choose to worship. It's an important military function for many people. Not for me, but I certainly recognize the need for it, especially in wartime.

[fascisthunter]

17. how stupid... is this for real?

why would any atheist give credence to the right wing's, atheism is a religion too" shit?

[bluestateguy]

21. If this is a serious proposal, I could support it

But not if it is a silly cheap shot to make a political statement in an effort to get rid of all chaplains in the military.

[RC]

25. After thinking long and hard about this, I have concluded that

while an Atheist Chaplin is an oxymoron and silly to boot, there is a need in this position for the non indoctrinated believers to have someone to turn to for counseling, that can deal with the problem, instead of palming the answers off on some mythical sky being.
I just have a little problem with the title 'Chaplin'. Besides what would they wear on their collars?

[oNobodyo]

37. "...what would they wear on their collars?"

scroll down to #16

http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp

While it probably galls most athiests to be considered a religion it's not necessarily a bad thing to have the belief system recognized as a belief system that is equal to any other.

Do you need to see one more picture of soldiers kneeling in prayer or hear another story of an athiest soldier forced to feign religion because of religious peer pressure in the military to know that this isn't just a good idea but a necessary step to protect those people?

[Zoigal]

38. I have a very nice "A" symbol that i wear on a chain. Wouldn't that suffice

for a collar emblem?......z

[KamaAina]

28. "possibly even a Wiccan"?

There are a LOT more pagans in the military than most folks realize. There was even a celebrated to-do over someone's right to have the pentagram placed on his headstone (in place of the cross, Star of David, Buddhist dharma wheel, etc.).

[Bigmack]

29. You guys are missing an important point...

in the military, the God Squad guys get to go someplace relatively quiet for an hour at a time.

I know the military is all different and weird now, what with the Xians preaching at the troops, but when I was in the Corps, I'd go to whatever Lordy Show appealed to me. Got to sit down and fuck off for an hour. Guys who didn't go got various more-or-less shit details.

Ya gotta look at the positive side of religion.

"Gunny.... I got an Atheist meeting to go to." "Yeah... well go then, asshole... an' get back here right afterwards, we gotta clean this place up for inspection."

[Manifestor_of_Light]

61. "Lordy Show"!!! ROFL!!

God-and-Pony Show???

:rofl:

[Festivito]

35. Good for them. However, oddly, the most vocal DU atheists seem quiet today.

Or, overly curt. Oh well.

[Zorra]

40. Well. I think maybe if it helps even just one person, it's worthwhile.

So much better that then spending the money on bombs

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. Be careful what you ask for ...

a proselytizing atheist is just as annoying as any other.

"advertise their events"? "distribute their literature"? Who knew atheism was so organized? I must be in the disorganized sub-sect of the atheist/agnostic religion.

Can I get a resounding "dunno"?

:hi:

[LanternWaste]

47. Would it be the...

Would it be the Reformed Atheists or Orthodox Atheists? :hides:

[maxsolomon]

48. Buddhism is also A-theistic. Buddha is not a God.

So it has this territory covered.

Nevertheless, I applaud any effort to bring the military in line with reality.

[Keith Bee]

49. Ludicrous

As a born-again agnostic, I fully support atheist/agnostic rights, but, as the first respondent said, this is just plain silly.

[Overseas]

51. Link to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation

There is a lot of Christian evangelical pressure in today's military.

Jeff Sharlett wrote a great article about it in 2009:

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488


I was glad to learn about the Military Religious Freedom Foundation's work.

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about/our-mission/

[Canuckistanian]

52. This is idiotic. Atheists don't need support or guidance in beliefs

Atheism is a total LACK of a belief system. We don't need to meet with or cling to other atheists in order to "justify" ourselves.

[and-justice-for-all]

55. I disagree with you...

the point is not as you say "to meet with or cling to other atheists in order to "justify" ourselves." It is a matter of principle. Have you seen the shit that the religious do in the military? It is about equality and having the same type of representation as everyone else.

As an Atheist, I think being visible and heard is far more important than remaining in the shadows with no voice.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

62. They have values, but not religiously based ones.

Ever heard of a secular humanist?


Table of Contents of a Secular Humanist Declaration:
1.Free Inquiry
2.Separation of Church and State
3.The Ideal of Freedom
4.Ethics Based on Critical Intelligence
5.Moral Education
6.Religious Skepticism
7.Reason
8.Science and Technology
9.Evolution
10.Education


I believe the values of atheists and secular humanists are that we should be kind to each other because it is the right thing to do, not for any hope of reward in heaven.

There are also very few atheists in prison and they have a lower divorce rate and higher education rate than the general population.

Atheists don't need meetings, but a lot of the people I know at Unitarian-Universalist Churches are atheists or agnostics. It is good to find people who have the same philosophy of life when you are tired of having Jesus shoved in your face.

[Heidi]

69. What about young atheists being pressured or bullied by the religious in the military?

There are atheists who want support and need an advocate. It's not about justification. In many cases, it's about having your interests protected by someone in a position to do that.

[and-justice-for-all]

54. Hey, why the fuck not??

Religions peddle their crap to military, so having the alternative option of NO RELIGION is more than worthy of holding a similar position; Even Pastafarianism should be represented as well.

This does not mean that Atheism is a religion, this simply means that we non-believing populace needs to have the same access to things that religion does. We want our voices heard.

[Solly Mack]

63. When my husband deployed I made a point of informing his command

that under NO circumstances were they to send a chaplain to my home in the event of his death. No chaplain or any other well-meaning, albeit annoying person, who wants to piss me off by telling me about "God's plan" or "God's will". I'm using those words now because those are the exact words I used to make it abundantly clear that I was not playing and that I would brook no deviation from my wishes.

He's my husband...they held no right to add insult to injury or death. Nor would I be nice and polite about it if they opted to not adhere to my wishes. My request offended people but I didn't give a flying fuck. Still don't.


That said...while I do firmly think atheists in the military should be free to be atheists without discrimination (duh) and without being bothered by those seeking to proselytize - duh (and it's never - ever - a good idea to knock on my door to share your faith) - I don't need an atheist "chaplain" either. It strikes me as a contradiction.

Now, we should be able to meet on post as a group just to offer support to each other (if we so choose) and be around like-minded people - and we should be able to raise money for any functions we have as a group (if we so choose). Same as any group is allowed to do. Still..atheism isn't a belief system. It's a lack of belief/a lack of religion in our lives. The Chaplain Corps is about religion. I can see an advocate but not an atheist "chaplain"...but the EOC is supposed to work toward problems of discrimination and an advocate within the EOC would be a good thing. As long as the position is actually one that advocates..which isn't a guarantee at all as evidenced by all the problems of discrimination the military has...

Course, this initiative could be the means by which atheists can be left alone to be atheists in the military. Because I assure you, having once received a 7 page typed letter (email) on why my life would be better with Jesus, atheists get a lot of shit in the military. One stupid female went around telling everyone I was a "witch" (and I mean the "Thou shall not suffer the witch to live", eats kids, worships the devil kind of shit - because I objected to prayer at a family meeting group. Congress established the groups and as such no one gets to impose their religion on anyone else...though some people don't understand their rights). I laughed about her ignorance in calling me a witch...but let me tell you....she wasn't the only ignorant person and that kind of ignorance is a danger to others. I won't go into everything they tried to do to me to cause me problems.

So, I'll hope for the best on this initiative. As it will have real life consequences for me.

[jmowreader]

64. I can understand them wanting this

Right now a soldier has three avenues open to him if he has a problem:

He can go to Army Community Services. They only want to talk to you if you're married.

He can go to the chaplain, who only wants to see you if you're Christian. Most bases have at least one Jewish chaplain and there are a couple of Muslim chaplains floating around, but commanders specifically ask for Christian chaplains.

Or you can go to Mental Hygiene at the hospital, but God help you if you seek psychiatric help when you're a soldier.

I really don't like the term "atheist chaplain"--anyone who's read Skippy's List will understand. Maybe "confidante" or "advisor."

[DonCoquixote]

66. The Church of Satan

Was founded by a Lt.Col in the military, who helped make sure the chaplain conformed to military guidelines. Oddly enough, they are popular in South California bases. The point being is that any group can make a chaplain, and there is no reason why the Atheists cannot either form a group to represent their ideas, or just simply get the Unitarians to be their rep.

[Heidi]

67. Atheists should have an advocate.

I would even go so far as to say that an atheist advocate might be better able than a conventional chaplain to "provide support to religious troops of all faiths."