Zinni Critical of Rumsfeld

[evworldeditor]

Retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni wondered aloud yesterday how Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld could be caught off guard by the chaos in Iraq that has killed nearly 100 Americans in recent weeks and led to his announcement that 20,000 U.S. troops would be staying there instead of returning home as planned.

"I'm surprised that he is surprised because there was a lot of us who were telling him that it was going to be thus," said Zinni, a Marine for 39 years and the former commander of the U.S. Central Command. "Anyone could know the problems they were going to see. How could they not?"



http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20040416-9999-7m16zinni.html

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http:/www.evworld.com

[xultar]

1. Arrogance. n/t

[0007]

2. Zinni has it right, as usual - Rumsfeld has it wrong as usual

"For years Zinni said he cautioned U.S. officials that an Iraq without Saddam Hussein would likely be more dangerous to U.S. interests than one with him because of the ethnic and religious clashes that would be unleashed.

"I think that some heads should roll over Iraq," Zinni said. "I think the president got some bad advice."

Known as the "Warrior Diplomat," Zinni is not a peace activist by nature or training, having led troops in Vietnam, commanded rescue operations in Somalia and directed strikes against Iraq and al Qaeda."

Read it...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20040416-9999-7m16zinni.html

[Go Eagles]

3. Others need to pin Rummy on this along with his snubbing of Shinseki

I actually have to confess to being on the fence about going to war with Iraq in the summer of 2002. I woke up in the late summer/early fall of 2002, when I read comments by Tony Zinni and Poppy's former National Security adviser giving pointed warnings about what we would unleash and how it would be a costly and reckless action. I also then started reading about the neo-cons and their insane fantasies about reshaping the world and woke up real quick about what this war was really about. It may have saved thousands of lives and not bogged us down in this swamp we are in if the cable media whores, milk toast politicians or shills such as Powell (who knew he was advancing a BS action but played the role of a good soldier to Chimpy) were paying attention to people like Tony Zinni and seriously challenging Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and the rest of the chicken hawk brigade on this issue.

[evworldeditor]

6. The Problem is Group Think Mixed with Ideology

When you mix neocon philosophy, religious zealotry and group think, you get what we have in the current administration, an unwillingness to hear criticism and reevaluate one's views on all the input. The neocons believe Friedrich Nietzsche's concept of will (subscribed to by Adolph Hitler and the Nazi Party), while the religious right believes in divine guidance. Group think is a common problem in any hierarchy, especially one infected with the religious or moral sense of superiority.

You saw this in GWB's press conference this week when all he could do was repeat the mantra of "Stay the Course"... willpower will win out. It didn't work for the Nazi's and it won't work for these folks.

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http://www.evworld.com

[Just Me]

11. Your points are well-received, Go Eagles and evworldeditor.

I do believe that "the people" will block the downward spiral advanced by these freon neocons. However, I also worry about just how far the neocons will go to achieve their aims. Such imaginations can be quite frightening,...which is why so many people are attempting to anticipate all potential consequences.

[peterh]

13. You have a very valid point….

But the group is lacking an engaged leader….as in the Raygun era, there was a generalized plan, but the staff was left to its own accords to achieve their part and we’re seeing a repeat with the twit.

The only difference is that Raygun could talk the talk while still being disengaged, the twit on the other hand is just an unplugged babbler.

[skooooo]

4. He knew, he just didn't care.

[RetroLounge]

5. The truth just gets in the way of these guys

So they ignore it...

RL

[Kagemusha]

7. Rumsfeld doesn't philosophically believe in prediction

Therefore, Zinni was a fool and a liar for predicting Iraq would go to hell.

Rumsfeld meant what he said when he said he would not have predicted this.

But only because he doesn't believe in the prediction of ANYTHING.

So said Doug Feith as quoted in an Atlantic Monthly (think that was it..) article.

[Just Me]

10. So, he fails to consider consequences? Isn't that a criminally-minded

position? I do not believe his aversion to prediction is anything other than an excuse to avoid responsibility for foreseeable consequences. I used to do court-appointed criminal defense work. I became pretty accurate in ascertaining who committed a crime by precisely this type of mind-set.

[bobthedrummer]

8. Pentagon Muzzles CIA by Robert Dreyfuss

http://www.prospect.org/print/V13/22/dreyfuss-r.html

The Vulcans-Office of Special Plans

Selective Intelligence
by Seymour Hersh
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030512fa_fact

[Just Me]

9. I hope Zinni continues to be a voice against this darkness,...

,...created by the freon neocon administration.

Has he taken to actually oppose the occupation, yet? Does he know of and support PNAC? I wonder.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

12. "I spent two years in Vietnam and I've seen this movie before."

Zinni's most quotable quote.

[BadGimp]

14. because it did not fit with their Bright Shinning Lie

The movie Bright Shinning Lie was on the box last night. Eerie how these Vietnam statement movies have so many parallels to today's reality in Iraq, including the run up to the war, or the New Bright Shinning Lie.

[Redleg]

15. Zinni is the man!

That jarhead has it right again. Bush is sacricing our soldiers and marines in the "charlie foxtrot" that is Iraq.

[Aidoneus]

16. "Papa Bear" Sharon is ok by his book..

but he has a problem with Rumsfeld? :shrug: