Texas executes Mexican after Supreme Court rejects stay

[Springer9]

Source: www.azcentral.com

HUNTSVILLE, Texas -- Texas executed a Mexican citizen Thursday for the rape-slaying of a teenager after he and the White House pleaded in vain for a Supreme Court stay, saying he was denied help from his home country that could have helped him avoid the death penalty.

In his last minutes, Humberto Leal repeatedly said he was sorry and accepted responsibility.

"I have hurt a lot of people. ... I take full blame for everything. I am sorry for what I did," he said in the death chamber.


"One more thing," he said as the drugs began taking effect. Then he shouted twice, "Viva Mexico!"




Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/07/07/20110707texas-execution-mexican-national-humberto-leal.html

---

I thought he claimed to be innocent or some such nonsense.

Well, Viva Mexico to you too pal!

[Orrex]

1. I'm sure that this execution will stop all murders everywhere forever

[S_B_Jackson]

12. Texas has guaranteed that Humberto Leal will never commit another rape/beating/murder

Leal's death was infinitely kinder and more humane than the victim of his depraved attack.

There's no doubt that he Leal was the perpetrator of this crime - he confessed to it, there was ample physical and DNA evidence linking him to the crime. And given that this story was all over the news in San Antonio, the Mexican government's claim that "We didn't know..." is pure, unadulterated bullshit. The only way that the consular offices in San Antonio "didn't know" is if they remained in seclusion, and didn't listen to, or watch the news (In English, or in Spanish) for several months.

This case is essentially identical as the controlling precedent Medellin v. Texas decided in 2008. There was no chance that the USSC was going to overturn it's ruling...

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Orrex]

39. Regardless, capital punishment is premeditated murder

Texas has guaranteed that Humberto Leal will never commit another rape/beating/murder

There were numerous ways to guarantee this without killing him.

Pro-death penalty apologists can offer up whatever justifications they like, but at the end it is state-sanctioned premeditated murder of a helpless victim.

[Harry Callahan]

117. No, murder is illegal, capital punishment is not.

[Orrex]

118. If that's the only distinction, then there's no real distinction

[classysassy]

140. Using words

that enable injustice is disgusting,the taking of a life by another name is just as horrible.

[Javaman]

56. Killing people to show that killing people is bad.

love the logic.

regardless. because asshole fuckhead perry ignored international treaty and because Obama was basically useless in enforcing the treating, we can now expect any American accused of a crime in a foreign nation, especially Mexico, will not be able to get help from the US.

perry denied the convict help from his home nation in violation of the treaty.

[Igel]

111. Indeed.

It's like fining people to show that theft is wrong or imprisoning people to show that kidnapping is wrong.

[Orrex]

119. No, it's like killing people to show that killing people is wrong

Look, I recognize that your bloodthirst can apparently be sated only by strapping someone helplessly to a chair and killing him, and that you identify this as somehow a morally correct procedure, but it's simply foolish to equate an execution with the lesser punishments that you describe.

If you see no distinction between killing someone versus taking that person's money, then I submit that you haven't given this matter sufficient thought.

[WatsonT]

80. Indeed. Only sentencing him to life in prison would have stopped all murders everywhere forever

[Orrex]

101. Well, it would have prevented at least one murder

[WatsonT]

105. Murder is an unlawful and intentional death

execution is intentional but not unlawful.

So it isn't murder, no matter how many times that is repeated.

[Orrex]

109. Execution by the state is no different from murder by an individual, except legally

The act bears no moral superiority, no matter how many times that claim is repeated.

[WatsonT]

120. Fines are no different than theft.

imprisonment no different than kidnapping.

Community service is slavery.

Would you listen to anyone who claimed life in prison is unfair because if done by an individual that would be kidnapping and hence completely illegal?

Your argument that the death penalty is wrong because if done by a person not in official capacity would be a crime applies to *every*facet*of*our*legal*system.

There are literally no punishments that can be doled by the state that can be done by one private citizen to another against their will without it being a crime.

You are basing your argument on an absurd double standard. Or do you believe you are free to grab random people off the street and force them in to confinement against their will?

[Orrex]

123. So you're saying that the state can do whatever it wants, as long as it makes a law to justify it?

Now that's an absurd double standard.


Put simply, endorsement of capital punishment is inconsistent with progressive thinking. It's a barbaric, outmoded practice that has no place in a society that considers itself modern or civilized.

Offer up whatever justifications you wish, but they all amount to "I want that person to be killed."

[RSillsbee]

126. Like it or not

the State can do what ever it wants

[WatsonT]

128. Ok let's go back to your original argument

that it's state sanctioned murder and makes the state no better than the criminal.

Do you acknowledge that this logic could be applied to every single punishment doled out by the state?

Yes or no?

Can I arrest you for fun, or take your property, or sentence you to unpaid labor?

/what you are now attempting is known as a strawman argument. You believe in prison sentences for murderers right? So then you believe the state can lock anyone up for no reason then? (identical to your rebuttal)

[Orrex]

129. The state has no right to execute a person who has been rendered harmless

Really, that's the end of it. Once the murderer is imprisoned and unable to harm others, then his execution is a deliberate, premeditated killing. You can quibble about the precise label to give it, but that's simply a matter of splitting legalistic hairs. You can also make claims about how a given prisoner continues to be a threat even while incarcerated, but that merely indicates that the incarceration has been unsuccessful, and it still doesn't mean that execution is justified.

Regarding analogies to other forms of state-sanctioned penalties, if you can name another punishment that is as wholly and entirely irreversible as an execution, then I will accept your analogy. Any analogy between fines/incarceration and executions are faulty because the former can easily be reversed if they are found to have been applied incorrectly.

There are a great many reasons to reject capital punishment, and I have never yet heard a single compelling argument in favor of it.

[WatsonT]

131. So an execution carried out is irreversible

but a life sentence carried out is not?

Please tell me how you give a person who was imprisoned at 18, found innocent at 50 his life back.

[Orrex]

132. Ask that 50 year old if he'd rather have been killed at age 18

Go ahead. I'll wait.


The difference, as I hope you're aware, is that a wrongful life sentence can be reversed at any time during its term, whereas an execution can not be. It is of course regrettable that some are wrongfully sentenced to life imprisonment, but at least in those cases we have the opportunity to correct that error. Would you prefer that we execute people in error, simply so that we can continue to kill people in the name of the state?

How, exactly, do you propose to correct an erroneous execution?

[WatsonT]

135. Ask that 50 year old if he

would have rather been set free. Your opinion seems to be that 50 years in jail = nothing.


Personally that wouldn't be nothing to me.

[Orrex]

136. Your question simply proves the point that I've been arguing for

Indeed, I suspect that the wrongly imprisoned 50 year old would rather have been set free. And how much more difficult would it have been to set him free after executing him?

Can you present any actual argument in favor of capital punishment, or do you simply support it because you like it?

[WatsonT]

138. I'm still curious how you are able to give time back to someone

Do you possess some technology you are keeping from the rest of us?

The fact is that your argument that the death penalty is wrong because it is irreversible once carried out is nonsense as that applies to incarceration as well.

The death penalty also fails to stop all murders ever, so that is another argument you use against it, failing to notice that neither does life in jail.

I suppose the death penalty does nothing to fix the hole in the ozone layer either, as long as you're throwing out things it doesn't do in an argument against it.

[Orrex]

139. Obviously time can't be given back, nor was that my claim

The incarceration itself can be reversed, which is to say nullified, if it is discovered that the person has been incarcerated in error. The time will still have been served, obviously, but at least the error will have been corrected henceforth.

Explain to me how you propose to reverse an execution.


I understand that you're very fond of state-sanctioned killing, and that's your choice. I simply don't know how you reconcile that retrograde and barbaric practice with progressive thinking.

[WatsonT]

147. You could reverse an execution as well

the state could say "whoops, that shouldn't have happened".

And that will give the man his life back as effectively as releasing him after 50 years in the joint.

"I understand that you're very fond of state-sanctioned killing"

I understand you're very fond of abusing puppies, and that's your choice.

As long as we're throwing out nonsense claims . . .

I wish no one would ever have to be executed. I wish people wouldn't murder each other.

But I also choose to live in reality.

[Orrex]

148. I'm honestly surprised that you're still humiliating yourself in this thread

As to your assertion, you have no evidence that I'm fond of abusing puppies, so you have no basis for that libelous claim.

However, this thread provides more than ample evidence that you are very fond of the death penalty, despite your half-assed and unconvincing claim to the contrary.

You could reverse an execution as well the state could say "whoops, that shouldn't have happened".

And that will give the man his life back as effectively as releasing him after 50 years in the joint.

Well, that claim is simply bullshit bordering on silliness. If you fail to see the distinction--despite two people explaining it to you quite clearly--then it's obvious that your lust for state-sanctioned killing won't be quenched by any reasonable argument.

Keep on posting if you like, but I'm done with trying to make you see sense.


If you have a moment, though, I'd really appreciate if you could post even a single compelling argument in favor of capital punishment. So far you've offered nothing more than "It would make me happy if he were dead."

[WatsonT]

150. Your arguments against have jumped around

from "a life sentence served out can be magically reversed" to "life sentences deter murder whereas executions do not" to "individuals can't do this so it's wrong when the state does it, unlike every other sentence a court can give out".

You believe you are explaining yourself clearly and that me not coming around is a fault on may part because you cannot possibly conceive anyone thinking differently than you do.

On what subjects do you suppose dissent is indicative of anything other than deficiency? Should people be allowed to hold a different view than you on anything?

Obviously not the law, or politics presumably. What about food preferences? Favorite colors? Music?

You're so proud of being open minded that you attack anyone who disagrees.

I'll let you think about that one for a bit.

/reason for the death penalty is the same as for any penalty: to deter that in others and to properly punish the guilty person.

[patrick t. cakes]

142. by your "logic"

wouldn't the innocently executed rather of not been executed? Pretty hard to reverse that.

[WatsonT]

143. Indeed, so that is not an argument for or against the death penalty

just like the claim that a death penalty carried out is neither and argument for or against life in prison.

[patrick t. cakes]

144. Maybe you miss the point

the death of an innocent person, by the state, cannot be reversed, whereas a life sentence can be commuted if evidence, etc.. is found to do so. Now years cannot be given back to a person who has been wrongfully incarcerated, but freedom and monetary compensation can be. In a flawed system such as ours, why would we as a "civilized" society choose such an extreme form of irreversible punishment, knowing that that system is as inherently flawed as it is?

Do you believe, in the long history of capital punishment, that there has never been a person wrongfully murdered by the state?

Your arguments are detracting form that basic premise.

[WatsonT]

146. Do you believe in the history of any punishment

that no one has ever died while falsely imprisoned?

Seriously, this is a simple concept. Injustice that robs a man of his life OR time cannot be repaid.

[patrick t. cakes]

149. now your not even making sense.

but you seem to be slowly agreeing with the concept that the innocent can't be repaid after being wrongly murdered by the state.

it'll obviously take time, but you'll get there.

[WatsonT]

151. I never once doubted that an innocent person couldn't be brought back to life

I've stated such many times. So you have successfully murdered that strawman (without the states support)

The problem is getting you to acknowledge that time spent in jail cannot be returned. You seem to believe the state lacks the ability to summon the dead but possesses time travel. Of course then why not just go back and stop the crime before it occurs? Your time-travel based theories on crime and punishment don't make a lot of sense to sane people.

[S_B_Jackson]

130. Such a sentence in Texas did not exist at the time(n/t)

[RSillsbee]

125. Maybe not but I bet he'll never do it again. NT

[classysassy]

141. " Deep in the heart of Texas"

another Mexican was killed(murdered),while their own mass murderer is free to live the good life,there are privileges for the white,rich and insane but no justice for the black,brown or yellow citizens.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. His rights were violated, no big deal.

unrec for your joy at the execution of a human being.

[Springer9]

11. He was brought to this country as a toddler

Grew up here pretending to be an U.S. citizen, took advantage of whatever this country had to offer and then conveniently decided that he should be a Mexican citizen after he perpetrated his heinous crime.

If he had wanted to avoid the death penalty he should have done his raping and murdering in Mexico where it is apparently not quite as serious.

When in Rome and all that.

[LanternWaste]

72. What other than provincialism

What other than provincialism leads you to believe that rape and murder are flippantly considered to as "not quite as serious..." in Mexico?

[joeglow3]

86. I thought it was pretty obvious he was being facetious

Point stands that he claims all rights and benefits of a US citizen....until it benefits him to NOT do so.

[Rebubula]

21. Adria Sauceda had her rights violated

That is a big deal.

If this asshole had been picked up for robbery\arson\kidnapping\drugs - I would side with you.

This asshole raped and beat a 16 year old girl to death with a piece of concrete. Fuck him.

I REC at your ignoring the horror and pain that this asshole inflicted on the this young woman and her family.

[laser_red]

45. what 'rights', would that be? nt

[WatsonT]

81. He pretended to be an American citizen for most of his life

and he got a fair trail same as any American would have.

What rights were violated?

[boppers]

3. ...and nothing of value was lost.

"There was evidence Sauceda had been bitten, strangled and raped. A large stick that had a screw protruding from it was left in her body.

A witness testified that Leal's brother appeared at the party, agitated that Leal had arrived home bloody and saying he had killed a girl.

In his first statement to police, Leal said Sauceda bolted from his car and ran off. After he was told his brother had given detectives a statement, he changed his story, saying Sauceda attacked him and fell to the ground after he fought back. He said when he couldn't wake her and saw bubbles in her nose, he got scared and went home.

Testifying during his trial's punishment phase, Leal acknowledged being intoxicated and doing wrong but said he wasn't responsible for what prosecutors alleged. A psychiatrist testified Leal suffered from alcohol dependence and pathological intoxication."

[Yupster]

63. Pathological intoxication?

What does that mean?

He drinks a lot?

[boppers]

106. A breakdown:

He had two problems:
1. Physical dependence on alcohol: He consumed it so regularly that his biological systems required it in order to function somewhat normally.
2. Pathological intoxication: His use of alcohol created an unusual or exaggerated response (usually violent or otherwise exhibiting symptoms of mental illness) disproportionate to the amount of alcohol consumed.

Reading between the lines, he's a guy who would go into a blackout, violent, drunk, after only beer or two, likely because he had depleted his liver function with great regularity. So, not only did he drink a lot, when he drank, it *really* fucked him up, more so than would be expected.

It's rare that the two are found in concert, because pathological intoxication usually leads to social moderation (dude, don't give that guy any beer) or self moderation (holy shit, I'm covered in bruises, I don't remember what happened... I shouldn't drink for a while).

[fascisthunter]

4. weird

very

[MilesColtrane]

5. Yep

No shoutout to Jesus or his favorite football team?

[fascisthunter]

14. lol

you showed me...

[MrSlayer]

6. He admitted it right then and there.

Violent rape and murder. Either of which should be a capital crime in my opinion. Good riddance.

[Ilsa]

I have to agree. She was just a teenager and he violated her and

Killed her. I can't feel bad for him.

[east texas lib]

7. He fucked up and he paid for it...

He's hangin' with Hoffa now.

[Schattie]

8. Adios muchacho!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. Registered here just now only to share your happiness, huh?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blueclown]

9. Sad to see so many people on a "liberal" message board

celebrating the death penalty.

This guy was a first class scumbag, and he should be entitled to sitting in his jail cell, in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day, for the rest of his life. But to see so many "liberals" here applauding this... it just makes me shake my head.

[RZM]

16. I count only a handful on this thread

I don't think that constitutes a lot on a board with thousands of active posters.

I'm agnostic on the death penalty. I don't think it's a deterrent, but at the same time I will lose no sleep that this deplorable person is gone forever. I'm not celebrating, but I'm certainly not lamenting it either.

[Rebubula]

22. Adria Sauceda....

....should be entitled to raising her children and watching them grow into adults. Instead, she has been dead and buried for 17 years after being beaten to death with a piece of concrete after this asshole raped her.

I am not happy that he was executed (certainly not sad) - but I also take into account his crimes.

I shed no tears for this asshole. Fuck him.

[blueclown]

23. Who is shedding tears?

This guy is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of his crime, there is no question of that, but how many innocent people have been sentenced to death over the last few decades?

[pettypace]

28. read your post again

You express shock at us condoning his execution on a liberal board.

And the very next sentence you suggest he should be caged 23 hours forever.


You know what nevermind. Seems like anti-DP crowd are just picking fights these days.

[blueclown]

57. This is such a severe crime that solitary confinement for 23 hours a day is suitable.

However, I cannot support the death penalty, given the numerous people who have been sentenced to death and were later exonerated.

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. Not all Democrats are liberals

[Yupster]

64. Good point

This isn't liberal underground, it's Democratic Underground.

[Judi Lynn]

71. You imagine the Republican Party is the one associated with liberals, progressives?Of course not.n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. That's unfortunately correct.

[Tiggeroshii]

10. The issue here isn't whether he was innocent or even whether he did something horrible

...that part is pretty obvious. The issue, that seems to be missed here is that he was not given access to his consulate as foreigners are expected to have when they are arrested. We expect it of citizens of the United States who are arrested abroad but if we refuse that to somebody, and execute them here, then our rights abroad are immediately threatened as a result of breaching a long held international agreement. This is the first step in allowing that to happen. Not likely I will be making any out of country travel plans any time soon...

[S_B_Jackson]

15. and sadly, there are many on this board who object to the police

making any effort to determine the citizenship status of those placed under arrest. This situation is one reason why that particular position is undesirable as a public policy.

They should have determined his status, and once determined that he was a foreign national, all that would have been required is a fax to the Mexican Consulate's office in San Antonio advising that Humberto Leal had been placed under arrest for rape, sexual assault and batter of a minor, and capital murder; where he was being held, who his attorney of record was, and when he was scheduled for arraignment.

Anything beyond that was up to the Mexican government. But fact is, this story was all over the news in San Antonio/Bexar County - the Consulate knew..............

[MessiahRp]

25. +1

A lot of grave dancing on here from people too foolish to see the larger picture.

[Keefer]

31. I have to ask...

What is the "larger picture?"

[MessiahRp]

92. Larger Picture = Rights of prisoners abroad to meet with their international consulate.

This was denied by the morons in Texas. We broke international treaties with the treatment of this prisoner. Now who's to say Mexico is going to give a fair shake to Americans suspected of major crimes down in their country?

THAT is the larger picture.

Rp

[Keefer]

113. See reply number...

40.

[DissedByBush]

40. He wasn't denied access

He did not ask for access.

Of course he didn't, because at the time he thought himself an American since he was raised here.

The whole "I'm a Mexican citizen" thing came up later as a ploy to avoid paying the penalty for his crime.

That the police weren't required to tell him he had a right to access is the fault of decades of Republican and Democrat Congresses and Presidents who did not implement the Vienna treaty in US law.

But even then, how are law enforcement officers supposed to know he's a foreigner and has this right? I don't believe he told them he was a Mexican national at the time of his arrest.

Do they do *gasp* profiling?

[Lasher]

137. And I do believe you need to have a passport to invoke the aid of your country's consulate.

A border agent told me that if you are arrested in a foreign country, you have the right to contact your country's embassy - but only if you have a passport.

[joeglow3]

88. So, if he never did this and was arrested, would he claim he was a Mexican?

Fact is that he lived the life of a US citizen, reaped the benefits of a US citizen and I would bet had NO desire to return to Mexico. Yet, when it benefits him, he suddenly yells, "wait a minute, I am a Mexican citizen."

Do you not see the hypocrisy?

[Tiggeroshii]

104. Well Homeland Secutiry sees things differently

...no matter how he lived, he never would have the full benefits of a US citizen, and as far as the government is concerned -for all intents and purposes, he isn't. If he would be required to do the things that a non-citizen of the US would do (register each year for a green card, keep his residence on file, not vote, etc),and the government would demand this, then the least the government could do is speak to the consulate when they arrested him. And they did not. Now the entire country's treaty obligations are in question as a result.

[Igel]

112. If he had, they'd have, too.

That's one good argument for making sure that all immigrants here are legal (immigrants). Illegal immigrants like Leal have illegal documentation and when they're arrested they don't say, "Hey, I'm actually not who my license says I am." Yeah, there are programs to check the immigration status of anybody reasonably suspected of being an immigrant, but a lot of progressivse dislike those programs intensely--they're things like "Secure Communities" or some state's status-checking laws.

The federal government couldn't speak to the Mexican consulate because the feds weren't involved. The state didn't see a reason to speak to them because they were kept in the dark by the accused. Now, in Leal's case he apparently didn't know he was here illegally. That wasn't the case with another executed Mexican national a few years ago--he denied the state information the state needed, and in so doing denied himself his consular rights.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StarsInHerHair]

36. "Jailed Abroad" is a tv series...should watch that

[frylock]

17. oh good! a capital punishment circle jerk!

executions are so fucking awesome!

[Rebubula]

24. No....executions suck

But....so do 16 year olds getting raped and beaten to death with a piece of concrete. I would weigh that as sucking more.


Why do so-called progressives forget the victim in these cases??

[frylock]

26. nobody has forgotten the victim ffs..

most civilized people realize how fucking barbaric capital punishment is. what's wrong with letting the fucker rot in prison?

[TorchTheWitch]

52. frankly, it's the rotting in a tiny cell 23 hours a day forever that is barbaric

Death would be a release from that sort of torture. If it's considered more humane to put a dog to sleep rather than have it caged in a comparable space 23 hours a day with basically no human contact for the rest of its life than why is it not humane for people?

Execution is supposed to be barbaric but torturing someone for the rest of their life by caging them in a tiny cell 23 hours a day with practically no human contact is not? You said it yourself... rather than put him out of his misery you'd prefer the "fucker rot in prison" for the rest of his life yet somehow that is not barbaric. Makes no damn sense.

[fascisthunter]

61. wow... sophistry at its finest

executing folks is kinder than locking one up for life... lol... oh brother.

[frylock]

68. so the alternative is to kill all prisoners?

[fascisthunter]

69. not what I was implying

I'm against the death penalty

[joeglow3]

89. I am too, but I agree with his/her point

I believe killing is wrong under all circumstances, other than self-defense. That said, I also agree caging someone in a cell for 70 years is MUCH more torture than killing said person.

[johnroshan]

91. Right to life is inalienable.

Neither you nor me have any right to propose that we understand what it is like to stand before the gallows. DP is basically justice in an "eye for an eye" way.

"Where is it I've read that someone condemned to death says or think, an hour before his death, that if he had to live on some high rock, on such a narrow ledge that he'd only room to stand, and the ocean, everlasting darkness, everlasting solitude, everlasting tempest around him, if he had to remain standing on a square yard of space all his life, a thousand years, eternity, it were better to live so than to die at once! Only to live, to live and live! Life, whatever it may be!"
- Fyodor Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment.

[LanternWaste]

74. I don't think that the seriousness of her death denies

I don't think that the seriousness of her death denies the celebration being referred to... :shrug:

Nor do I believe that concern for a perceived abuse of fundamental jurisprudence denies remember or honoring the victim, however I do understand that many people force themselves to that dogmatic and myopic view as to better minimize the opinions of those in disagreement.

[alsame]

18. And I'm sure you'd be just as amused if an American gets

executed in another country without getting access to any US officials. Hey, maybe they'll even shout "USA, USA" and you can really have a good laugh.

[era veteran]

34. I agree with you, Just like our use of torture

this violation of international treaty compromises all Americans. Rick Scott was not going to let a Goddamn treaty get in the way of the Texas execution machine. Why is Texas so volatile that they feel the need to kill so many people? I have argued with myself for years about the death penalty but not any more. Too barbaric, too final, but never does it bring back the dead or lessen the pain. Hell, they are running out of execution drugs and are using dog killing vet medicine. I don't know if Texas did but some States are.

[Bryn]

19. Interesting! 5-4 votes from SCOTUS

Always it's conservative justices that vote against people, right?

[MadMaddie]

20. The stakes of this execution are much bigger than many understand

The United States signed a treaty that basically said that if any American citizen were to get in trouble in a foreign country that foreign country would allow the American government to step in on behalf of that citizen. Texas did not allow Mexico to step in on behalf of this Mexican citizen.


So what does that mean? The world will say "Fuck You" America when an American citizen gets in trouble.

Beware if you travel to other countries you are on your own now.


Maybe this guy deserved the death penalty but that is besides the point.

Texas has fucked all Americans and many don't feel it yet.

[Springer9]

35. No they aren't

If I rape and murder a 16 yo girl in a foreign country I'll be sure to tell the authorities I'm an American and you can't treat me like a common criminal.

[MadMaddie]

42. What happens when you as an American citizen are innocent

of a crime they have charged you with? What then?

[PassingFair]

70. Please Maddie, you'll short-circuit that poster's brain.

If you are arrested, you must be guilty,
why else would you be arrested?

Don't challenge his simplistic ways.

:eyes:

[Igel]

114. Then you have to look at the facts of the incident.

Leal didn't say he was Mexican. How was anybody to know that the Mexican consulate should be contacted?

"Oh, brown skinned, speaks with a Spanish accent. He's one of them there Mexicans!" Oh, wait. That's profiling, absurdly racist on its good days.

I guess that's what it's down to: To adopt the right posture for one context, we have to support racism that we'd condemn elsewhere.

1. The negotiators didn't stop and think that the US was structured differently from Italy or Turkey or China. Smart pols, them. It can be overlooked in the case of non-American negotiators. But you'd think that Americans would be familiar with their own set of political structures.

2. Congress screwed up. They ratified the thing without realizing that there were layers of government beneath it. Perhaps they thought that they had total control over the individual states with no further adieu. They were wrong, and didn't remedy the problem when it became apparent.

3. Leal screwed up and denied himself his consular rights, even if it was in ignorance. His ID was fraudulent. He didn't know he was a Mexican national until it was legally useful--so how were the police supposed to know? Oh, that's right. All them brownskinned accented folk are ferners from Mexico. So his parents screwed up twice: They brought him into a country in a way that limited his options and then didn't tell him, thus helping to screw up his legal situation even further. How nice. Those who raised him had a larger role in denying him his consular rights than the US government did. Chew on that.

The point from (1) is that few other countries have the kind of independently layered system the US has. This means (2) isn't important for most other countries.

And if an American gets caught doing something wrong and denies that he's an American and has ID that masks his American citizenship, he'll be denying himself his rights in the same way.

[COLGATE4]

66. That's just a silly response. The point is (if you committed that

crime in a foreign country) would you 1) expect that somebody would let your loved ones in the US know about your predicament? 2)make sure that you're not being treated more harshly than the prisoners from that country? 3)give you name(s) of lawyer(s) who might be able to help you with your case? Those are the things that the Consular Service does for Americans arrested in othe countries. Beyond that, you have no special rights and get no special assistance.

[-..__...]

37. And if it happens to be Mexico that pulls a stunt like that...

the State Department issues a travel advisory, and/or we boycott travel to Mexico... simple as that.

Our "neighbors to the South" can't afford to risk our tourism dollars for the sake of a technical oversight of a few convicted criminals that even they wouldn't want.

[shoutinfreud]

87. Many countries "pull stunts like that" all the time

I wager there's a handful of Americans rotting in mexican prisons as we speak who have been denied their rights.

[totodeinhere]

43. When I travel to another country I do not intend to commit rape and murder. I think I'll be fine.n/t

[killbotfactory]

44. Like Amanda Knox?

[totodeinhere]

84. What happened in that case is wrong, of course. But millions of Americans

travel abroad without incident, and the odds are overwhelming that when I travel abroad I will be just fine. And that's good enough for me. I am not going to buy into any fear mongering over foreign travel. It would probably be more dangerous for me to travel in the USA. Europe is a very civilized place overall and I would feel completely safe there. Travel to other placed such as the Middle East might be more problematic because of the political instability there, but that has nothing to do with this issue. And travel to Mexico is off limits because of the violence perpetrated by the drug cartels and the rank corruption of the Mexican government. But if this case in Texas hadn't happened it would be just as dangerous in Mexico.

[MadMaddie]

76. No one is arguing about the rape and murder that's a fact he did it.

It's bigger than that, it has happened in the past where Americans have gotten caught up in something unexpected in another country, we would expect to go to our Embassy or contact our government for help. Americans expect to be able to do that....

[WatsonT]

82. I will definitely think twice before raping and murdering while abroad

thank you for that lesson.

[Anakin Skywalker]

30. The crime must not be disgusting enough? The only sympathy I see from some is for the perpertrator.

[RebelOne]

108. Not from me. Rape and slaying. He deserved the death penalty.

I am a female who was a victim of rape when I was a teenager, so any creep convicted of rape deserves whatever sentence is passed on them.

[-..__...]

32. I'd send up some fireworks in observence of the shit-stains demise...

but I wouldn't want to piss-off the owners of stressed out dogs.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. That's exactly what I was talking about...

...elsewhere.

Thanks for volunteering to be Exhibit P. Or is that Exhibit Q? Damn, soon I'm going to need the Chinese alphabet.

[stockholmer]

33. Rick Perry is so running for POTUS, and now he has a Clinton-like Ricky Ray Rector dodgy execution

Obama got punked again, he really is tiresome, duplicitous, and weak. Perry is a true wicked snake in the grass, and the death penalty is ALWAYS wrong.

Obama is even starting to talk like the odious toad GW Bush:

Obama Refers To The Internet As "The Internets"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/07/06/obama_refers_to_the_internet_as_the_internets.html

woe to the USA

[GreenStormCloud]

103. And Obama has set himself up to be Willie Horton'ed. N/T

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChrisBorg]

41. He raped a 16 yr old with a screw ridden stick while she was alive.

Fuck him, rot in hell.

[Beacool]

47. I had hoped that she was already gone when he did this.

I can't even imagine how much she must have suffered. Poor girl, may she rest in peace.

:(

[Beacool]

46. This is what this animal did to the girl.

"He was convicted in the abduction, rape and bludgeoning death of 16 yr. old Andria Saveda. Andria was raped with a piece of lumber and her head crushed by a 35 pound piece of asphalt after being abducted from a party by Leal. Her nude body was found by a creek with the piece of lumber still protruding from her vagina."

His death was far more compassionate than how he killed Andria. I cringed when I read what he used to rape her. Good riddance to the POS, may he rot in hell!!!!

x(

[Oasis_]

48. The reason being...

There are some, as the old joke goes : "two leftists come upon a dead body, and one exclaims to the other "we have to help the guy that did this!!!"

This particular individual who committed such a barbaric, heinous crime is now dead, and society is better for it. He can't murder a prison guard, a fellow inmate or any one else. Any human being unfortunate enough to walk across his path is now spared from his murderous tendencies.

Oasis

[Judi Lynn]

50. That's an old "joke?" I've never heard it. Must be the company I keep. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

78. Your choice of rock band for a name is rather interesting.

[shoutinfreud]

85. What's really gross is that conservative look at a murder as a chance to get cheap thrills legally

By killing someone and not facing prosecution. It's rather disgusting.

[EstimatedProphet]

115. Why come here and tell jokes that freepers find funny?

They aren't funny. They also aren't true by any means. What they are is divisive. Go away.

[Oasis_]

116. I never said they were funny...

and I'm most certainly not a Freeper.

There is, however, a small (but vocal) minority that seemingly attempts to mitigate the crime via excuses and explanations that always seem to place guilt everywhere else except where it truly lies--with the killer.

I read that a 30 day stay would have satisfied the requirements set forth with the execution of a foreign national.

If I were Governor I would have adhered to the agreed upon provision. After the 30 days had elapsed--barring any new evidence--- the execution should go on as scheduled, imo.

YMMV.

Oasis

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

122. Sure.

[Judi Lynn]

49. Why would the news about an execution bring out posters to a Democratic board to mock Democrats?

Something truly smells here.

[RandiFan1290]

54. Don't forget the good ol fashioned racism

Is this the new "DU"?

[Judi Lynn]

73. Makes you wonder sometimes! Normally one doesn't associate Democrats with racism.

Racist Democrats (AKA "Dixiecrats") all went "thataway" http://www.ics.uci.edu.nyud.net:8090/~kobsa/graphics/pointing-finger-right3.jpg and joined the Republicans when the Democratic President initiated Civil Rights legislation.

[WatsonT]

83. What racism?

[PavePusher]

60. There are Dems that support the Death Penalty...

in some cases, if not a a blanket policy.

Just food for thought.

Politics is not monolithic binary....

[Judi Lynn]

62. When people mockingly refer to "two leftists," they're not discussing Republicans. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

90. +1

[SoapBox]

51. Texas LOVES to murder murderers!

...and just think how many of those "convicted" murderers...have NOT been guilty of the crime.

How many of those on TX death row are actually NOT guilty?

Of course, Texas doesn't care 'cause they LOVES THEM SOME MURDER!

[christx30]

53. Actually

Dallas county prosecution has been looking for people wrongfully convicted of crimes. They partner with the Innocence project to find these people and get them out of prison. They have found a guy that was in jail for 25 years for a rape he didn't commit. The reasons so many of them get found in Texas is because they LOOK for them.

[digitaln3rd]

55. Murder is murder, state sanctioned or not.

I don't see how you can punish murdering with murdering.

That being said, the guy is a douchebag and I'm not crying any tears over him.

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. This guy was a poor example of a foreign national needing consular assistance

His parents brought him to the US when he was a toddler. He grew up in the US. He was educated in the US. He spoke English. He was familiar with how our justice system worked. What would the Mexican Consulate have done for him?

[slackmaster]

65. Constitutional law questions often involve people who are less than stellar examples of humanity

What would the Mexican Consulate have done for him?

They would have asked the state of Texas to commute the sentence to life in prison. The state of Texas would have refused, and the execution would have proceeded.

[COLGATE4]

67. Probably nothing. But that isn't the point. The question is what

could the American Consulate do for YOU if you are arrested in a foreign country. Based on this precedent, the answer is probably "NOTHING" - if we don't honor our obligations under the Treaty of Vienna, then why should any other country? Keep in mind that affording these protections is not option - it is our law.

[Hosnon]

75. Attention countries of the world: I am NOT from Texas, so please don't deny me my right to speak

to the American embassy if I'm arrested.

[TwoTap]

93. A Better Plan...

Don't get arrested.

[Hosnon]

94. I live on planet Earth, not your omnibenevolent, non-corrupt Utopia. nt.

[TwoTap]

95. Really?

I would think that not getting arrested would be a priority. Do you really think that any third world country that you might visit would care about this agreement?

[Hosnon]

96. It is a priority. But "arrested" =/= "guilty".

It's not just third world countries either. Mistakes happen and executive branches of governments are not corruption-free.

If you think whether you get arrested is entirely within your control, you live in Lala Land.

[TwoTap]

97. If you think

...that anything other than bribery will get you out of
trouble in another country, you are mistaken.

[Hosnon]

98. Goodness. You think the U.S. is the only country with a decent judicial system?

I've had friends arrested in foreign countries. No bribes required to resolve.

[TwoTap]

99. I See

That I have the good fortune of meeting one of this forums
worldly mebers as a fledgling poster. I shall yeild to your
expertise.

[Hosnon]

100. You learn quickly.

Welcome to DU!

[TwoTap]

102. Thank You

...for the welcome.   Some things just ain't worth arguing
about are they? :)

[COLGATE4]

110. This is not about 'getting you out of trouble' if you are arrested

in a foreign country. As a US citizen you get no special treatment and have no special rights. You are subject to their laws and can be arrested, detained and jailed according to their legal system. But, what having Consular access by the US Consulate does get you the following:

- Someone from the Consulate will visit you in custody and determine that you are not being treated in conditions more harsh than the native inmates
- Notify your family in the US about your predicament
- Get you a list of local lawyers who are qualified to help you with your problem
- Perhaps bring some comfort items - cigarettes, toilety, etc.
- Lets the foreign government know that someone is checking on you (and keeping an eye on their treatment of you).

Don't you think it's important to protect these services for you and me if and when we travel abroad? I sure do.

[WatsonT]

121. He wasn't denied it, he just wasn't told he could

The guy lived here most of his life.

If this were a discussion on getting a job or going to college or being deported 99.9% of the people on here would fight vigorously for him to be treated as an American. That's the only land he's ever known!

But the second there's a slight advantage to being a Mexican (and let's face it, he was guilty so there's really no way he was going to walk) then all of a sudden he's a full citizen of the proud nation of Mexico' (said with full accent).

[Hosnon]

127. The underlying reason for invoking a privilege is largely irrelevant. nt.

[MellowDem]

107. "Viva Mexico!"

:rofl:

Nationalism is sad. I'm sure Mexico will be glad a rape slayer loved his country until the end.

[RSillsbee]

124. I have no problem w/ executing him if he's guilty NT

[udbcrzy2]

133. I agree 100%

Maybe he should have checked out the death penalty laws before he raped and brutally murdered this young girl

It's really irritating to hear other Democrats belittling fellow Democrats because they believe in the DP. It's the law and it's justice. If you don't like the law then don't break the law or change the mother fucker.

[diveguy]

134. Lets not forget

Not only did he rape her. He got a stick with a screw sticking through it, and rammed it up into her, ripping up her inside. The stick was still inside her when she was found after he head was crushed with a 40 pound chunk of asphalt.

I don't think Texas should have given him a lethal injection. I think daddy should have had the opportunity to smash his head in. Animal deserved to die a horrible death

[minavasht]

145. So there is no doubt he did it.

Good riddance.