Why do Americans die younger than Britons (and citizens from 36 other countries)?

[Turborama]

Source: BBC

By Tom Geoghegan, Washington DC |July 10 2011 Last updated at 23:33 GMT

Living in the world's richest country comes at a price, and it's measured in life years.

Men in the US are on average aged 75 when they die. That is 1.5 years younger than men in the UK and 3.5 years younger than men in Australia, says a new study. American women live on average to just under 81 - about three years younger than the average Australian woman.

While life expectancy in the US continues to improve, says the report by researchers at University of Washington in Seattle and Imperial College, London, it is not increasing as quickly as in other Western countries, so the gap is widening.

"The researchers suggest that the relatively low life expectancies in the US cannot be explained by the size of the nation, racial diversity, or economics," says the document, which ranks the US 38th in the world for life expectancy overall.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14070090

---

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Junk food and stress, probably.

[roomfullofmirrors]

22. diabetes and poor lifestyle choices

which result in heart disease, lung disease, liver disease, cancer, and diabetes with it's host of comorbidities such as heart disease, kidney disease, vascular disease, etc. We have two demographics here that are particularly susceptible to diabetes incidentally. In the UK, for example, approx. 4% of the population has diabetes. In America, over 8% of the population has diabetes. That kind of difference would easily contribute to a slight decrease in life expectancy for Americans. It would be interesting to break Americans down into demographic groups and then compare their life expectancies to the life expectancies of the various countries that are reported to have longer life expectancies than Americans as a whole.

[me b zola]

25. No, lack of access to health care

If you can't see that, then maybe you have some catching up to do.

[roomfullofmirrors]

27. I have worked in the healthcare system long enough to be well ahead of the curve.

so spare me your condescending attitude. the vast majority of my patients are poor to middle class. They all have access. The ones that live the longest are the ones that didn't: smoke, drink, eat like a fucking pig, run around the streets getting in gun/knife fights, drive around without their seat belts or motorcycle helmets on, or develop diabetes which cuts your life expectancy down by 10-30 years. I have seen dirt poor penniless gang bangers receive millions of dollars worth of healthcare so don't tell me there's no access.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

46. ah yes... of course... all deaths are self-inflicted

and those dying had to have deserved it...

[roomfullofmirrors]

61. In Africa, maybe not so much; however, in America, to a large extent, yes.

not all as you have suggested but many. In third world countries, humans are killed by war, famine, and plague. In America, we have none of those things. In America, we have deadly vices (that are now deadly habits). Take the biggest one, for example, smoking and don't take it from me, take it from the CDC:



* The adverse health effects from cigarette smoking account for an estimated 443,000 deaths, or nearly one of every five deaths, each year in the United States.2,3
* More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.2,4
* Smoking causes an estimated 90% of all lung cancer deaths in men and 80% of all lung cancer deaths in women.1 (cancer is the number 2 leading cause of death in America btw)
* An estimated 90% of all deaths from chronic obstructive lung disease are caused by smoking.1

Smoking and Increased Health Risks

Compared with nonsmokers, smoking is estimated to increase the risk of—

* coronary heart disease by 2 to 4 times,1,5--leading cause of death in America
* stroke by 2 to 4 times,1,6 3rd leading cause of death in America
* men developing lung cancer by 23 times,1 second leading cause of death in America
* women developing lung cancer by 13 times,1 and
* dying from chronic obstructive lung diseases (such as chronic bronchitis and emphysema) by 12 to 13 times. 4th leading cause of death in America
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/

[izquierdista]

55. Millions of dollars?

Only in America can you buy "millions of dollars worth of healthcare". Other places, where the government pays for it, the bill is a lot more reasonable.

[No Elephants]

71. Even in the U.S., a man young enough to be a gang banger

running up "millions" in health care costs would be very unusual. And I am always agreeing that health care is too costly in this country.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

70. And I've seen a very good thirty year old man die of having to choose

choosing between paying his rent or buying his meds.

Funny how experiences and perceptions differ.

Working in the health care industry does not necessarily change the prism through which you normally view events.

[TexDevilDog]

80. My wife is an RN

My wife mentions to people that they need to exercise, lose weight, stop smoking. They look at her like she is crazy. Then they ask about a pill to cure them.

[SOS]

91. Germans

drive like maniacs, smoke like chimneys, drink astronomical amounts of beer and eat mountains of bratwurst.
They also live longer than Americans.

"Lifestyle" choices are not the sole determining factor.
Access to national health is very important.

There is very limited access in this country for those earning above the Medicaid threshold, who do not have
employer-based insurance and can't afford a private policy.

And there are 50 million of us.

[No Elephants]

77. Americans who manage to reach age 65 do fine on life expectancy compared to other nations;

and Americans over 65 have Medicare.

[Brickbat]

2. Health care that you can't afford so you put off preventitive appointments, and rotten eldercare.

[indepat]

45. The joys of living in a rabidly RW society are bearing fruit and our government is now in process of

sacrificing the quality of life and longevity of millions of its citizens, all so the uber-wealthy and large corporations can continue their feeding frenzy sucking at the public welfare teat. :patriot:

[lob1]

3. My guess is they have better health care.

[ShockediSay]

13. and yet the Repuglickms (representing Big Corporate Money

Billionaire Bosses) will tell you we have the best health care in the world.

What they don't tell us is - - only if you can afford it.

[BattyDem]

4. Here's a thought ...

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that America is the only country that doesn't guarantee health care to its citizens from the day they're born until the day they die.

[provis99]

5. as if its a great mystery.

"Instead, the authors point to high rates of obesity, tobacco use and other preventable risk factors for an early death as the leading drivers of the gap between the US and other nations."

they answered their own fucking question!

[Turborama]

6. The BBC posited a question in their headline

The answer to which is within the article.

Moral of the story; readers need to go beyond just the headlines of articles (ETA and the short snippets we're allowed to post here) to educate themselves about the topic at hand.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Turborama]

19. "they answered their own fucking question!" was your point...

...with profanity and an exclamation mark as if it was some big surprise.

My point was that your reply was stating the obvious

[Igel]

50. Nah.

It's easiest to just give the same answer you like to believe in to most questions.

42.

It pays not to think deeply or critically, why waste the effort when you already know the answer?

[No Elephants]

79. Or, an OP could post different "snippets."

:)

We're not required to post consecutive paragraphs.

[Spider Jerusalem]

18. Well...

about 20% of the UK population smokes (that's overall, the relative percentage of smokers is probably higher for certain age groups); the UK is second on the international league tables for obesity rates, last I saw.

Preventable risk factors? The UK, Canada, etc have much more sensible health systems where people don't put off seeing a doctor because they worry about their ability to afford it; workers in other countries are less overworked and thus relatively less stressed than Americans, as well (six weeks off per year in the UK vs only 2 weeks off per year in the US).

[No Elephants]

78. The article also refers to access to health care. See Reply 10 for the quote..

[No Elephants]

82. Amazing how often studies tend to find exactly what they were looking for.

So many factors contribute. Pollution, isolation, contaminated food, and on and on.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. K & R! I can think of plenty of reasons why we trail behind...

and not one of those reasons can be separated from the fact that the Republicans have had their claws on our country's laws and regulations for the past 30 plus years.

[hamsterjill]

53. +1

I would add in there the current stress that many of us have as to whether we will EVER be able to retire, and whether or not we'll be eating cat food at some point before we die.

[OHdem10]

8. Lack of Health care is an economic issued, I would say.

[hay rick]

10. Best health care system in the world...

as my Republican friends like to say.

From the article:
When you look at life expectancy at 65, the US does perform well, says Svetlana Ukraintseva, research scientist at the Center for Population Health and Aging (CPHA) at Duke University in North Carolina.

Elderly Americans have a higher chance of surviving heart disease and many cancers than their counterparts in other rich countries, she says. Where the US lags behind is what happens at a much younger age. Infant mortality rates are high, she points out.

"So it's not the medical system itself that is the problem but access to it," she says.

"Medical insurance for all might help."

The defenders of our health care system often cite life expectancy for those 65 and older as an under-appreciated but compensating virtue of our system. My belief is that the superior outcomes we experience for that age group is largely due to the "thinning of the herd" that our system enforces on the poor and the genetically vulnerable prior to that age. Those who survive to that age in this country are probably, on average, more robust than their counterparts in advanced countries with more egalitarian societies and universal health care.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. To translate:

wealthy people live longer.

[Igel]

51. More accurate portrayal:

Educated people live longer.

The educated tend to be wealthier; they also tend to follow instructions, take their meds, seek better counsel over illness, and are more likely to avoid some really stupid things in life.

The strong correlation between income and education, of course, can muddle the stats.

[No Elephants]

75. How do you know your interpretation is more accurate than the one

given in the article?

Presumably, the one given in the article was based on information from researchers at the Center for Population Health and Aging at Duke University in North Carolina.

[woo me with science]

16. "So it's not the medical system itself that is the problem but access to it,"

That quote from the article sums it up.

You can have all the "insurance" in the world, but if costs are still skyrocketing and you can't afford your premiums and deductibles, you still don't have access to health care.

[NewJeffCT]

37. People over 65 have socialized medicine in the US, though

If we got rid of Medicare, or privatized it, the elderly Americans would no longer be nearly as healthy.

[AndyTiedye]

63. At 65 They Get Medicare

Before 65 everyone is on their own.

[EC]

12. Because we're worked to death. With few vacations...

Plus lack of Health care...both of which Europeans get.

[snot]

14. Cf. this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rOmV6dySOPU/SzhZAMoOiNI/AAAAAAAACrQ/K5Fu46W8DJw/s1600-h/Healthcare%24andResults

Basically, the turquoise lines represent countries that have universal coverage provided by public and private insurers, and the orange lines – the U.S. and Mexico – represent the countries that do NOT have universal coverage.

The US line is super-high on the left because that's how much more we spend compared to the other nations. And the US line is much lower on the right because, even though we spend so much more, our life expectancies are actually below the mean average of that in the other countries.

[Tunkamerica]

15. It's also interesting how rarely we go to the doctor compared to other

countries. It probably has a lot to do with payment.

[laser_red]

21. or being healthy .nt

[Tunkamerica]

64. Yeah because that's what the graph implies.

We spend so much per person and have such a high infant mortality rate because we're healthier than every other country on the graph but one ... mexico (and maybe switzerland; having travelled in Switz. I can tell you that I saw no one overweight or who even looked slightly unhealthy).

[No Elephants]

85. Health of Americans under 65 compares unfavorably with nations that have universal health care.

Once we reach 65, we do fine. Then again, at 65, we become eligible for universal health care.

[onyourleft]

41. As well as...

...not wanting to chance taking time off from work and lack of transportation to a physician's office or clinic during the time that they are open.

Many years ago, I helped establish a pediatric outreach program in a poorer part of the city in which I then lived. The most common reason for not being able to get medical care was lack of transportation, public or private. Many people had to be seen in the emergency room of the hospital after 5:00 when they had transportation available.

[No Elephants]

89. Agree, but please see Reply 77,

[laser_red]

17. Obesity .nt

[bhikkhu]

35. ...and smoking.

I suppose you could say substance abuse in general, or addictions, but plenty of research simply says "Obesity and smoking".

[chill_wind]

20. Issues of affordable access.

K & R

[roomfullofmirrors]

23. I don't think so. the access is there. you can't be denied.

I have treated plenty of penniless peasants. I basically saved an old spanish speaking only man's life this weekend. If he had access, anyone has access. we probably spent $25,000 on him that day incidentally between the emergency bowel surgery, the hemodialysis, a day in critical care, and consultation of a Primary care physician, a renal physician, a GI physician's group, and the surgeon. the taxpayers paid for it all and they will pay a lot more before this guy goes to heaven. Just the facts man.

[chill_wind]

24. The key word is affordable. If you are a health care giver,

would you really deny the reality of how many people in non-life threatening situations elect, however for the worse, to delay or forego both preventative care and often recommended treatment, including difficulty affording prescriptions, even when with some form of insurance because of the punitive costs of high deductibles and premiums, as well as often very costly pharmaceuticals?

[roomfullofmirrors]

26. I'll tell you why I think healthcare is unaffordable.

because the government has corrupted a free market with billions of taxpayer dollars. Why do they charge so fucking much money for simple little things? Because they fucking can. It's the same with education. Why does a college education cost so much? because the government has corrupted a free market with billions of tax dollars. They charge outrageous fees BECAUSE. THEY. FUCKING. CAN. and as long as the government continues to subsidize that bullshit, healthcare and education will remain unaffordable. and since you're never going to the government out of either of those institutions, guess what? that's right, they're never going to be affordable. unless the government runs out of money maybe.

now the pharmaceutical problem is another situation entirely. Americans are definitely getting ripped off by big pharm. I think the government ought to take over pharmaceutical R&D and control all of the patents from here on out. That would be a good "investment". We'll see how this insurance mandate business works out but my guess is, it's not going to make healthcare more affordable. More likely, it's just going to make insurance companies and hospitals wealthier, and make everyone else homeless. I'm pretty sure I'll be paying a "fine" every year personally.

[Enthusiast]

33. LMAO!

This guy is telling us the free-market can save us. He says government corruption of the free market caused out health care problems. Is that you, Rand Paul?

Take your fucking right wing lies down the road, junior.

[bulloney]

40. Oh yes! The hallowed free market. The one thing that solves everything.

One of the big reasons the U.S. economy is in the mess it's in is because we repealed Glass-Steagall and let the banksters and big business run the show. The reason government programs have not been running well is because in the U.S. we have a revolving door between the regulatory agencies and the institutions they are supposed to regulate. Does the fox and henhouse analogy ring a bell?

[fascisthunter]

47. The "Free Market" is a Myth

and so is your BS meme that market(sociopathic) will solve human issues such as lack of healthcare and proper education.

Your attempts to somehow marginalize the OP is pretty humorous...

PS - we've been living in a country that allows the market to run our government, nevermind everything else in this fucking country of ours. Snap out of it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

54. Which is what you expect of a Republican pro-insurance company plan.

That was where Obama first showed he true colors.

[Oxy Contin]

93. Someone's been watching Fox news

[LanternWaste]

96. And this isn't the case in the enlightened

"They charge outrageous fees BECAUSE. THEY. FUCKING. CAN. and as long as the government continues to subsidize that bullshit, healthcare and education will remain unaffordable.."

And this isn't the case in the enlightened (health-wise) Western European counties because...? :shrug:

[Enthusiast]

32. "you can't be denied." Right wing talking points alert.

I didn't know I turned on Fox News or Limbaugh.

[Dems2002]

38. Sigh...

Just because people are not turned away from the ER and left to die on the streets doesn't mean that there's access to healthcare or that everyone fully partakes. (Some people are terrified of visiting the ER because they know they'll get that $25,000 bill and have that hanging over their heads forever) Chronic conditions are under treated for those in need with limited resources. Hell, my own step-father, who has a full-time job with decent benefits, went without his blood pressure medication for 2-3 days because he simply couldn't afford the $200 prescription until after payday. That's the reality of healthcare in America. And lack of funds means that people die who don't have to do so. I also had a neighbor who didn't go to the doctor until her breast cancer was stage 4. Yep, she died in her 40s or 50s from a disease that she likely could have survived had she caught it earlier.

People live with horrible pain and some would rather die than survive with debts they can never repay. Others are willing to go to the hospital and get treatment because they'd rather not die, even though they have no insurance and can't afford it. Some of these folks go in for a cold because they know they won't get turned away. It would be nice if we had basic urgent care centers around the country that could keep these people out of ERs, but alas and alack, we don't. I am not going to castigate these people for visiting the only doctors available to them when they're sick. They aren't the problem. The problem is our system. The worst off are the lower middle classes who actually have jobs and don't qualify for any help other than more debt.

[VLC98]

44. +1

[w0nderer]

69. saved me the typing of my answer +1

[No Elephants]

86. +1 A post that says we need a better way to recommend posts.

[No Elephants]

76. Emergency rooms cannot deny access. That is not always the reason for death

by lack of access. For example, inability to pay for prescriptions or lack of timely diagnosis that would otherwise occur during routine physicals can be fatal.

And, ER treatment does not always consist of emergency surgery or any other full solutioin to a problem.

And, no matter what has taken place, very often, if not always, an ER discharges a patient with written instructions to follow up with their primary care physician.

Also, see Reply 10 for a quote from the OP article re: access to health care.

McCain claimed that the duty of Emergency Rooms to give care filled the need for any other kind of health care "plan." It was bullshit when he said it. It still is.

[LanternWaste]

95. the critical flaw in your argument.

You appear to conflate health-care with emergency/trauma services. Two different animals-- related, but with enough differences to illustrate the critical flaw in your argument.

[Prophet 451]

28. Because we have universal healthcare, that simple

The NHS is a long way from perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than triage by wallet.

[dipsydoodle]

31. It isn't quite that simple

I think you know what the actual cost to us is. In aggregate it may be little different from what the US pay as you go costs are. The main difference here is that those who pay also cover those unable to.

[Prophet 451]

65. I DO know what the figures are

NHS budget: aprox. £62 billion. Aprox $2000 per citizen, per year.
Amount spent on mixture of Medicare, Medicaid, private insurance: $2.3 trillion.
Amount to cover entire US population under NHS model (not counting start-up costs): Aprox $600 billion.

All figures from Wiki. There is a massive difference in costs. And it's in our favour.

[No Elephants]

84. We also have a segment of the population that pays out of pocket.

They would be people who take a risk on going uninsured, but do pay out of pocket. That group includes both people who cannot afford health insurance but do not get public help and people who are wealthy enough to afford anything.

That figure is not accounted for in your post, so our total costs exceed $2.3 trillion.

[Prophet 451]

98. Absolutely

I failed to include those for the simple reason that accurate data on them is difficult to come by but, if you include them, you're probably up to more like $2.5 trillion.

[No Elephants]

83. Those who pay here also cover those who are unable to.

Providers raise prices and anything our government pays for is paid for by the taxpayer (or borrowed, to be paid for by the taxpayer in the future).

No, the difference here is that we allow health care costs to rise to the sky and allow health insurer to profit insanely from things your government does at cost.

[Prophet 451]

97. I have a theory on that one

We still have private insurers here too. Some people take private insurance for various reasons. Maybe they like the brand name drugs and luxurious hospitals (the NHS tends toward generics and functionally spartan to keep costs down), some people take it for the sheer snob value but people do take them. However, since the NHS provides a "backstop", a minimal level of service and value-for-money, anything which competes with that has to offer better service at a good price, which I always thought was the essence of capitalism. I call this the "backstop theory" of economics.

[RaleighNCDUer]

56. Triage by wallet - EXCELLENT phrase.

I will be using that a lot, I think.

[roomfullofmirrors]

62. Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)

Nobody is triaged by wallet in America. period.

[Prophet 451]

67. Yeah, and the 40% difference in mortality just from being uninsured...

...is just a lie created by the liberal media.

[Prophet 451]

66. Please do

Some people hope their words will be studied or entered into books of quotations. I've revised my aims down, I just hope to eventually coin a bumper sticker.

[No Elephants]

87. You reply is another quotable gem. And you post facts, too. Facts with a liberal bias.

I think I'm in love.

[Prophet 451]

99. Nice to meet you too :) n/t

[Long Shadow]

29. We have a more diverse population than any other country.

Furthermore, we have the freedom to choose unhealthy options.

[Enthusiast]

34. No, we have poor and expensive access.

Why should DUers put up with right wing talking points? Especially on the subject of health care.

[Long Shadow]

57. Are you suggesting that heredity has nothing to do with one's longevity?

The next time you see your doctor, ask him if he agrees.

Here's another clue: Have you ever met anyone in their 90s-100s who is fat or is a substance abuser?

[Enthusiast]

59. No, I don't believe in heredity at all.

You know, I'm just like all the fundamentalist Republicans that don't believe in science. That's why I'm on DU every day.

[No Elephants]

88. LOL!

[No Elephants]

90. People who were fat until old age and beyond are often thin by age 90 to 100.

I know a man who died skinny at 93, but had been terribly fat from about age 65 to 85. Also dipped snuff all his adult life. (truly gross habit) A heavy drinker, too, leading to alienating his family.

Is that the profile of your average 93 year old? Hell, no, but you did say "anyone."

[ngant17]

36. My mother is 90

and she owes her longevity to Medicare and Medicaid, gov. funded health care. I do not reasonably believe she would be alive today, on her limited SS income, without health care supported by our US government. Any private plan would have ruined her financially and physically, with what little money she has had to live on each month.

I don't see how you can rule out economics in this equation, especially as it is related to public access to low cost medical care in the US.

[DFW]

39. We eat crap and can't afford to get medical help when we suffer the consequences

Better nutrition and more accessible health care, and we'd live as long as the Georgians in those old yoghurt ads.

Of course, then the Republicans would demand that Social Security not kick in until age 87.............

[Township75]

42. Compare the average waist line of a US citizen vs the others...

than add on the binge drinking, hours of TV, etc.

[N7Shepard]

48. People in other western countries are fat, drink, smoke, and are lazy

Look at the pubs in England - they let teenagers drink there!

[Prophet 451]

68. Only over-18s

At least officially. And that's a different cultural standard. Generally, you're considered to be an adult at 18 here.

[harun]

43. Because those countries don't have slavery.

[Bragi]

72. +++100 /nt

[WatsonT]

49. Obesity is a huge part of the equation

not all of it of course. But getting that under control would solve a lot of our health problems.

[Islandlife]

52. Agreed!!

Heart disease and cancer account for 50 percent of deaths in the US.

Cancer research is improving survivability rates.

Many diseases of the heart are due to personal health choices such limited exercise and eating habits. We(as a nation) should know better by now how to improve our health.

If we want to live longer, we can improve our odds by making healthy lifestyle choices.

[Islandlife]

92. Michelle Obama is on the right track

Healthy lifestyle choices can prevent one of the two main causes of death; heart disease. She is helping the next generation make the right decisions regarding food intake and exercise. She is showing that good health is attainable at any socio-economic level.

Michelle is empowering the youth. She is freeing them of self-constrained limits to health.

Non-profit youth sports programs can go a long way in promoting healthy activity and keep kids off the streets. There are so many baseball, soccer, Pop Warner, swimming, etc. activities that we need to promote more and at early ages. Such activities also get parents and grandparent out and about. Everyone benefits.

[Amaya]

60. crappy food

no health care... not having a REAL vacation. 2 weeks off is bullshit.

[Bragi]

73. Answer: social and economic inequality is higher in the U.S

Access to health care matters, but it is also an established fact that social and economic inequalities are major determinants of health outcomes.

Since the U.S is a country of great and growing inequality, it seems likely that poor health outcomes for growing numbers of poor people are a major reason for America's poor performance in maintaining health.

In short, unequal access to health care for people who get sick can be an important part of the problem, but economic and social inequality limits a persons ability to not get sick in the first place.

[freshwest]

74. No brainer. Social democracies work. They're not for everyone, obviously, or we'd be outta this mess

[avaistheone1]

81. K&R

[LeftishBrit]

94. Lack of good healthcare for many? More social inequality, resulting in poor nutrition, etc.?

I also wonder very speculatively whether the American dependence on the car might have something to do with it (more road accidents, more sedentary lifestyle, perhaps more pollution?)

Not that Brits should be complacent, especially in the face of government 'reforms' affecting both healthcare and poverty.