Pelosi digs in to the left of Obama in debt battle

[FreakinDJ]

Source: Carolyn Lochhead, Chronicle Washington Bureau

Pelosi digs in to the left of Obama in debt battle

Issuing an ultimatum to a president of her own party, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi is betting that she can recapture the speakership in a high-stakes game of brinkmanship over raising the $14 trillion debt ceiling by Aug. 2.

The San Francisco Democrat has told President Obama that House Democrats will not vote for any trims to future benefits in Medicare or Social Security, even a tweak to the cost-of-living index to restrain benefit growth. Obama has made clear that he is open to cuts in entitlement programs.

But after being dismissed in Washington as largely irrelevant following the Democrats' loss of the House in November's elections, Pelosi now controls the precious Democratic votes Obama needs for a deal that would prevent a U.S. default that his Treasury secretary warned could be catastrophic.

Pelosi has framed her stand as "no benefit cuts in Medicare or Social Security" and emphasized that she has made that position known with "full clarity" to the White House.





Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/13/MNF01K93VV.DTL

[fascisthunter]

1. Good!

...and I hope this isn't theatre from her. Yes, I am very cynical...

[leveymg]

119. Cuts to SS/Medicare/aid are political suicide - any perception that Dems want cuts are poison

This article says as much, and that is perhaps the most important point to take away from it. The HCR crafted by Obama and conservative Senate Democrats actually lost the Democrats many votes - and perhaps the House majority - and Obama now appears set to finish the job:

Pelosi's relentless opposition to former President George W. Bush's plan to add private accounts to Social Security helped her win the speakership in 2006.

She lost her majority last year in part because Republicans accused Democrats of cutting Medicare by $500 billion over 10 years as part of the health care legislation. By positioning themselves as Medicare's defenders, Republicans won back the senior vote.

This year, Republicans in the debt talks are demanding as much as $250 billion in Medicare cuts over 10 years. House Republicans also voted earlier this year for a plan by Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis., to turn Medicare into a voucher program. Democrats see that vote as their ticket to winning back the House.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/12/MNF01K93VV.DTL#ixzz1S58vir6z

[jeaps]

144. I was unhappy

when Nancy Pelosi took impeachment of any Bush officials off the table, but she did do a great job as speaker of the house. Much of what didn't get done during Obama's first two years wasn't because of the House, it was because of the Republican's use of the filibuster in the Senate.

I admire all that she has done and I hope she stands her ground and wins back the speakership. Someone has to remind Obama which party he belongs to.

[colorado_ufo]

150. Perfect summary.

[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pennylane100]

2. I can't wait for her to be running the show again.

[okieinpain]

14. me too. n/t.

[vrp]

135. Actually

How about if she ran for President!? I'd support her should Obama sell the Dem Party to the highest bidder.

[RedCloud]

145. provided the Prez stops blabbing about cuts, she will be back by a tsunami

[Plucketeer]

147. She's shown that at least SHE

has a "pair". Which is alot more than can be said for many of the seat warmers in that vaunted legislative body.

[mike_c]

3. I have criticized Pelosi relentlessly in the past, and doubless will again...

...but this time I have to applaud. :applause:

[FreakinDJ]

4. thank you for your honesty

[Warpy]

7. Yes, she has been stellar the past few weeks.

I hope she takes her job back in 2013. We need her desperately instead of a weeping Cheeto who seemingly hates Americans.

[SusanaMontana41]

26. "weeping Cheeto" LOL! n/t

[SpankMe]

53. Weeping Cheeto!!!!!

Fuck - I haven't laughed this hard in weeks! Excellent!

[Beartracks]

59. That's not fair. He appreciates *successful* Americans.

The other 99% of us, not so much.

Would be funny, if it weren't true.

==============================

[No Elephants]

75. Cheeto? How very disrespectful of the Office of the Speaker.

Boner is clearly a yam.

[Kali]

78. !

:spray: :rofl:

weeping cheeto :rofl: :rofl:

[tavalon]

109. Knowing what I know about the state of that man's liver, I feel bad laughing

but The Weeping Cheeto, is too funny not to snicker at!

[harmonicon]

130. Yeah, because she did such a great job before.

I think almost anyone would have been a better leader than her. Her leadership seemed to consist of doing jack shit, having absolutely no party-wide platform on anything, and capitulating to the minority at all costs.

[kag]

140. I resent that...

insult to Cheetohs! But I also laughed my ass off!

[colorado_ufo]

151. Weeping Cheeto!

Oh, that is an unforgettable image!

[Enthusiast]

156. Pfft

[Sherman A1]

64. Agreed

Let me add mine as well

:applause:

[zanana1]

114. As have I, but...

I won't applaud unless she stands her ground this time.

[Javaman]

120. +1. nt

[kenfrequed]

127. Yes

I have also found her to be often weak and ineffectual, but the times like this where she manages to stand on principle I applaud. I'm kind of hoping positive feedback works.

[AllyCat]

142. Me too. I wish she had fought like this when she was Speaker

Hopefully, when she is Speaker again, she will continue to fight like this for us.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Go for it, Nancy!

If Obama's being pulled to the right by Boehner, Cantor, and McConnell, then Nancy can pull just as hard to the left by herself.

[Divernan]

6. Nancy, a grateful nation of senior citizens and future senior citizens thanks you!

[plumbob]

29. Excellent! More like this, please!

Dig in!

[zanana1]

115. And the disabled, who are rarely mentioned! nt

[xchrom]

8. Excellent. Nt

[damntexdem]

9. And think of what this says: Pelosi to the LEFT of Obama.

What a disaster I helped bring about for the Dem Party by supporting Obama in the 2008 primaries.

[truedelphi]

73. But did any of us have a choice?

Most of us knew that Hillary was a pro-military, pro-Big Banks candidate.

While Obama spoke of a public option (as a candidate,) Hillary's health plan as she detailed it in the early 1990's was the total conscession to the Major Insurers and to Big Pharma.

Anyway, we couldn't tell from the things that Obama said that he was not progressive. View his speeches (now on YouTube)to the full capacity stadiums in Wisconsin during October 2008, and you can still see his appeal. We just didn't know he was telling a lot of, er, Untruths.

And after Obama got the party's nopmination, we certainly could not vote for Mccain/palin in protest.

I am coming to accept that whatever real changes are needed in this nation will have to come about in a manner OUTSIDE of the political realm, as that realm is totally controlled by the Uber Elite.

[No Elephants]

81. We could have voted for a candidate in whom we believed.

Write in campaign, anything. Also, getting more involved early on in the state party.

Thing is, I looked at the field in November 2007 and decided, to my surprise, that Obama was the most electible one who was running.

Hillary, Dodd, Biden--too much baggage, insufficient charisma, etc. (I may have been wrong about Biden on both counts, but, obviously, I was right about Obama's being electible.)

I dismissed Kuch out of hand as unelectible in the general and probably in the primary as well. (I probably still believe that.) And I wanted to back a potential winner from the jump.

However, supporting Kuch from the time he announced through the end of the primary in any way I possibly could would have helped make it clear that 100% of Democratic voters are not supporting the DLC/New Democrat/Third Way/No Labels type of "progressive." We want the Party to find its compass again and become the Party of all working people.

The richest 10% have almost all of the nation's wealth, but the rest of us have almost all of the nation's votes and GOTV capability. We have to stand up and use them wisely and in a way that promotes OUR values for a change.

[Beacool]

124. Hillary got as many votes as Obama and won most major primaries.

Also, exit polls showed that she would have fared even better than Obama because many McCain voters said that they would have voted for her if she had been the Dem. nominee.

So much for charisma.......

:eyes:

[cottonseed]

139. There just wasn't enough hard working white Americans to put her over the top.

She's too old now to ever try again. Too bad.

[Beacool]

155. Not so..........

Obama's pledge advantage was due to the caucus states.

As for her age, she still would be younger in 2016 than Reagan and McCain were when they ran for president.

;)

[kenfrequed]

133. "...possibly could have made it clear..." ?

You mean you didn't support Kucinich? Or you did? I am sort of confused.

I supported him as long as I could until he dropped. I felt that most of the rest of the candidates were entirely too moderate or worse DLC drones.

Of course how could I blame anyone for not thinking Kucinich is not credible. The mainstream media fixates on the horse-race, they talk about war chessts, and when that fails they bring up the pink and purple unicorn called "electability." The Plain Dealer did Kucinich the worst as that conservative newspaper razored him out of the debates they helped sponsor based on a set of criteria that they didn't apply to Allan Keyes (who almost no one even knew was running) a week or two later when they wanted to demonstrate how diverse teh GOP was.

We need to be firmer and stronger in our support of progressives earlier in the process on the national and local level.

[JDPriestly]

101. Agreed, trueDelphi. Great statement. Real change comes from changing

the culture, the belief system.

It is much easier to change culture and beliefs in hard times than in good.

Watch the movies of the 1930s. Times were rough, but liberal ideas were welcomed. People no longer believed in the myths they had been fed in the boom of the 1920s about prosperity and easy paths to wealth.

During the 1930s, 40s and even in the early 50s (pre-McCarthy), people were still seeking humanist values.

Look at the movies and literature of our time. So much of it is simply cruel and cynical. It ridicules genuine human feelings, honesty, love, parental devotion, the human values.

So we have to "accept that whatever real changes are needed in this nation will have to come about in a manner OUTSIDE of the political realm."

[KoKo]

122. +1 Good Points...

[truedelphi]

157. It seems surprisingly obvious that the CIA is now embedded with

the major movie and TV producers.

Half the major movie releases this summer are about secret agents, CIA types. And there are always one or two CIA agent TV shows presented to the public.

Also the HBO drama, "Game of Thrones" is one of the most cynical shows ever produced.

Except for the fact that the actors are walking around in castles and wearing animal skins and robes, it could just as easily be taking place inside the halls of Enron.

I am glad to see Roseanne Barr on Lifetime with her show about the 48 farm acres of macademia nuts she is now hell bent onusing to feed the world. (or her family, anyway.)

That and the Giants' baseball games are the only things I find worth watching on TV.

Maddow has become more clueless as time has gone on. Keith Olbermann put out in the Rolling Stone article a month ago that Obama's health care plan is a wise and judicious piece of intelligent politics for the benefit of the people.

I guess he can afford insurance. If he was not a TV star, his age group would make it impossible for him to afford insurance.

Then HBO has Bill Maher, who shows again and again his "food plate" that offers up the mis-information that Social Security is part of the general revenue spending of the Federal Government, and that as a result, as he portrays it, it is unaffordable. But Social Security is not part of the General Fund. It is a separate account. With a two point one TRILLION dollar surplus. I wish Garofalo would clue him in the next time she is on the show.

[IamK]

10. she will likely cave and have that fake smile on her face holding hands with Boehner...

[MsLeopard]

33. I can appreciate your cynicism

I suffer from it myself, but in this case I think it's part of the kabuki theater we've been subjected to through this whole debacle. Some say Obama is playing skillful "rope-a-dope" by offering something he knows will not pass - cuts to SS and M/M - thereby making the Thugs come out against it because the only thing they're interested in doing, is opposing everything the administration promotes. When that happened, Mitch McChinless floated the "Obama can do it all by himself" balloon, signaling a cave on the other side for a change, that brought joy and jubilation to many Progressives and leftists starved for the slightest win. Maybe, just maybe, Nancy is being allowed to be the standard bearer of the left, to speak to our issues from a position of (some) strength because even this administration (and its corporate masters) has to know how pissed off we are and that we need a bone tossed our way every now and then.

I mean, recently when Candidate Obama talks the populist talk I tend to think it's because his corporate masters allow him to, he can't constantly be subservient to them after all, he's the leader of the so-called free world and they have to let him appear presidential at times. For the people's sake. So I tend to think this is part of that game - Nancy gets to stand up for the people, if only to keep us docile for a little while longer. It's probably already been decided what the "deal" will be, it's now just a matter of selling it to the public. I truly believe we are among the most manipulated populace on the planet and we're steered in whatever directions TPTB want us to go.

So, I guess I'm just as cynical as you..... :shrug: Welcome to DU! :hi:

[JDPriestly]

102. Agreed as to:

"It's probably already been decided what the "deal" will be, it's now just a matter of selling it to the public. I truly believe we are among the most manipulated populace on the planet and we're steered in whatever directions TPTB want us to go."

[russspeakeasy]

143. Professional wrestling..the outcome has been made clear

to the participants...the show for us is entertainment...and we are duty bound to applaud.:puke:

[truedelphi]

74. Yeah, that kabuki theater thing of how someone in the Dem party is always

Able to announce that they will fight until the death, the appeal of all that has worn rather thin.

Cuz in the end, Pelosi and those like her always concede.

We have seen that in how she did not defund the War Machinery back in Spring of 2007, when we had a Democratic House. When she threw impeachment off the table. et Cetera.

[Lifelong Protester]

11. I am happy someone is standing up against this 'cut social programs'

crap.

I think she does believe that she is in Congress for a reason, and that reason is to do good by people.

She's easy to criticize, but on this issue I am pulling for her to stand strong.

[Metta]

12. Mazel tov. I'm glad someone there has balls.

He doesn't.

[okieinpain]

15. oh whatever. n/t.

[FreakinDJ]

20. I think she well emerge to be a Major Player in the negotiations

too bad Corp Media is doing their best to ignore her

[Metta]

96. Could be. She's shown some spunk in the past.

She's not perfect but she's a whole lot better than most nowadays.

[CountAllVotes]

13. soon to be President-elect Pelosi

or so says that little bird on my shoulder!

Thank you so much for your hard work and dedication Madame Speaker at the very least!

:kick: & recommend!!

[Cognitive_Resonance]

16. Good Cop-Bad Cop. nt

[Liberalynn]

17. You Go Girl!

Now stick to it this time. Now Harry needs to join her. No weasling out on their promises this time.

If Medicare/SS are in this debt ceiling package in any way "JUST SAY NO DEAL TO CUTTING THE NEW DEAL!" No matter who proposes it or what ever false offers and assurances they make in return.

[whathehell]

37. Good slogan: "Just say no deal to cutting the New Deal"...Damned right!

:headbang:

[Liberalynn]

72. Thanks

:hug:

[whathehell]

103. You're very welcome!

and back at ya, liberalynn!:hug:

[Igel]

95. SS, New Deal.

Medicare/Medicaid, "Great Society." 1965. Part of a revamping of Social Security.

Most SS cuts suggested are in years quite a few years removed, or doing things like reducing COLAs in the next few years to help avoid redeeming large amounts of Treasury securities. It would take pretty severe cuts, more severe than I've heard actually proposed by any but a small number of loons, to get Social Security back to what it was under the New Deal. It's not a question of "saving the New Deal." It's really a question of "saving the Great Society." Doesn't have the same ring to it.

It's Medicare B and D that have had some real cuts suggested--and those are mostly restricting future increases. Medicare part B dates back to 1965, but Part D's legislation was passed in 2003 and took effect in 2006.

[whathehell]

105. Oh, I know that....I'm not old enough

to remember FDR, but I do remember when Medicare went through.


Without going through all the details

of how SS changed, etc., I believe people think of FDR and the "New Deal"

because he was the one who "got the ball rolling" so to speak....He was

in favor of a national health care plan as well, as a newly

uncovered newsreel revealed.

There should be NO cuts to SS or Medicare beneficiaries.

This country has the SMALLEST safety net of all the western

democracies, and the idea that we're supposed to "sacrifice" that

so that the rich can get even richer makes my blood boil

newly uncovered, revealed.

[The Big Vetolski]

18. I don't think it will be necessary. Obama, Reid, and Boner will

accept the Turtle's deal at the last minute.

[Liberalynn]

27. A speaker on Countdown last night

and sorry I missed his name, said even if it is the Mcchinless' deal they go with, cuts to Medicare payments on the supplier's side and some "possible changes" to S.S. would still be included. He said Nancy Pelosi was dead set against any changes but was likely to loose on the issue. Keith specifically asked him if they were safe in the McChinless option.

He did say that the raising the Medicare eligibility age requirement option is dead for now because both sides balked.

Just saying what I heard not that the Olberman's guest is right or wrong on the situation as a whole. I don't know if anybody really knows what the hell is going on with so much fighting between and within the two parties.

So I am not going to totally relax until we here benefit cuts are completely off the table in the final package.

So until then I hope Nancy keeps standing her ground, though I fear she might cave too.

[indepat]

19. Nancy didn't cave on: impeachment is off the table. Let's hope the hell she does not cave

on this one. :patriot:

[Seedersandleechers]

21. I don't know about this,

"Failure to recapture the House in 2012 would probably end Pelosi's career. " :shrug:

[trud]

23. "Failure to recapture the House in 2012 would probably end Pelosi's career. "

They wish. I think not.

[Enrique]

34. the pundits were nearly unanimous that Pelosi would step down as leader

after the 2010 election. A lot of them even said she would resign from Congress.

[trud]

22. elect that woman President n/t

[mvd]

24. Good! The left is hardly being represented

I think I understand Obama calling the Repukes' bluff and keeping the bigger plan in the talks, but if he's serious about raising the retirement age, it's little consolation. When I found out about social security checks not going out, I realized something has to be done - even if Obama has to find a way to raise it without Congress. Just do not do anything drastic to SS or Medicare!

[julian09]

28. Something has to be done about medicare

because it's only going to last twelve years. Remember the seniors threw the dems under bus in 2010 election. They sure showed Obama, now they want his support.
He's trying but he can only fight with the army we gave him.:cry:

[mvd]

32. No.

No benefit cuts whatsoever to Medicare right now. None, none, none. Sure, there's some waste and abuse, but cutting that's about all I'd accept. If the President cuts Medicare, that will be hugely disappointing no matter who he has to deal with. This is not the fault of seniors. Seniors are the ones we need to protect.

[julian09]

41. Not benefit cuts

unless taking duplicate tests, xrays, negotiating prices for prescription, hospitalization doctor fees etc, are benefit cuts.

[mvd]

43. We even have to be careful about supply side cuts

Because those can be passed down to the seniors.

[Liberalynn]

47. Bingo

[Lasher]

67. Medicare has already been cut, by Obamacare.

And those cuts are appropriate - particularly the Medicare Advantage part. That's enough cuts to Medicare. Saint Ronnie already cut Social Security, moving the retirement age out, and those cuts are taking place right now. That's enough cuts to Social Security. How about getting that next pound of flesh from somewhere else besides the aged and the disabled?

Not ranting at you, Liberalynn, just chiming in.

[SharonAnn]

126. Those weren't Medicare cuts. They were cuts to overpayments to insurance companies.

Insurance companies wanted 15% more than Medicare to provide their "equivalent" services.

If they can't provide "equivalent" services for the same $, then they're not competitive. It's not the taxpayer's job to pay the insurance companies more just because they want it.

The whole thing was framed badly, even by our people.

It was NOT "Medicare cuts". It was reducing overpayments to insurance companies. After all, privatization should be more efficient, right? Actually, we know it's not, but that's a moot point.

[Lasher]

159. You are 100% correct.

I didn't feel like elaborating and just said the cuts are justified.

[No Elephants]

83. Last I heard, he had supposedly proposed an increase in the age of eligiblity for Medicare

from 65 to 67. I had also heard of a possible change in the way COLA is calculated for OASDI, but not of any increase in the age at which we may collect full OASDI "old age" benefits.

Eligibity age for full OASDI "old age" benefits has risen to 66 and will phase in to 67 and that was not Obama's doing. (Early retirement age is still 62 and up.)

[TxVietVet]

25. When Pelosi said that impeachment was off the table..........

I no longer have anything good to say about her. Until she proves different, I don't not believe she will do anything to jeopardize her position. So, if she actually follows through and do what the Democrats should have been doing all along, standing up and stopping the conservanazi onslaught, then and only then will I support her. Right now, she's trying to position herself into some kind of leadership position again. She screwed up the last one she held.
What the Democrats should be doing is looking at the polls and how Americans feel about this issue rather than worrying about hurting their corporate bribers.

Put up or shut up, Pelosi. The ball is in your court. We shall see.

[julian09]

30. Pelosi accomplished much more than the senate did for

progressives, where over 300 bills went to die.

[No Elephants]

84. Part of that is due to differences between the Rules of the House and the Rules of the Senate.

Republicans in the House have been passing one crazy vote after another since they got control. even though they know the Senate will kill them.

[SoapBox]

31. BRAVO Nancy for having the SPINE that these jellyfish men do not have!

Bravo to you Nancy!

[FreakinDJ]

36. Granted - some Man should step up to give her an "Honorary Pair"

perhaps Reid because he sure ain't using his

[No Elephants]

85. Pelosi doesn't seem to need any man to step up and give her an honorary pair of anything.

Most women don't. Thanks anyway.

[boppers]

35. LOL, No "benefit" cuts.

In other words, same stance as Obama, she's open to cutting both programs.

[whathehell]

38. If there's no "benefit" cuts, what would be the problem?

[FreakinDJ]

40. You mean Paul Ryan took his proposals off the table

The GOP plan is to keep this the defining topic of the 2012 elections as to push their agenda

[whathehell]

42. That's not what I mean

AFAIK, the Ryan "voucher" plan is dead,

it being as popular as a stink bomb

at a perfume party among the entire electorate.

[FreakinDJ]

44. I thought Obama's proposals were to "Draw out" the Paul Ryan plan

and "Head it off at the pass" so to speak

so then what is all the talk about having to make cuts then.

[whathehell]

108. The Ryan plan would actually replace social security and, as mentioned, it's heartily detested

by most...Even Teabaggers, by something like a 65 to 30 something margin

don't want Social Security or Medicare touched...at all.

As for Obamo on the "cuts"...I confess that I'm confused at this point;

some say that he was just using it as "bait" to lure out the pukes and

that he never intended to make those cuts....If he does, I can assure

you he will have MAJOR resistance on his hands, and I believe

that would be essentially across the political spectrum.

[boppers]

45. People were pissed that Obama might cut SS.

Pelosi's now saying she's willing to do the same thing.

[FreakinDJ]

46. you would have to show me a credible link for that

[boppers]

48. Which part?

For the Obama part, see: the last week at DU.
For the Pelosi part: See the OP.

[FreakinDJ]

66. Where did Pelosi say she would cut Social Security

[boppers]

99. She only said she was opposed to cutting benefits.

That leaves:
Fraud
Admin overhead
Miscalculated inflation
etc.

[bowens43]

52. ..

nm

[No Elephants]

88. Not the way I read the OP.

ETA: Not saying she won't vote Obama's way in the end. Just sayin' that the OP says something different than what you seem to be saying it says.

[boppers]

100. She's not willing to cut "benefits".

So, she's possibly willing to make cuts, just not to "benefits".

It's the same annoying word-game as people slammed Obama with.

[whathehell]

106. She is?

I haven't seen that...Have a link?

[Vattel]

113. No, people were pissed that Obama would cut benefits.

[Dawgs]

129. Why didn't you mention Medicare?

Is it because Obama is willing to raise the retirement age to 67?

[Liberalynn]

49. I am not trying to be argumentative honest

but if the President is not considering "benefit cuts" then what exatly did he mean when he used the phrase "trimming benefits?" in the question and answer session of his press conference the other day?

President Obama: "And so, yeah, we’re going to have a sales job; this is not pleasant. It is hard to persuade people to do hard stuff that entails trimming benefits and increasing revenues. But the reason we’ve got a problem right now is people keep on avoiding hard things, and I think now is the time for us to go ahead and take it on."

http://historymusings.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/full-text-president-obamas-press-conference-debt-ceiling-talks-republican-congressional-leaders/

I have been listening to what the President has been saying and not just what the press and others are reporting and when I listened I clearly heard that phrase "trimming benefits." Again,
this is a direct quote not a paraphrased account from a reporter. Don't cutting benefits and trimming benefits mean the exact same thing?

[boppers]

50. Didn't see that conference, but I'll guess.

If inflation is 1%, and seniors get a 1.1% increase, is removing an unjustified 0.1% increase a "cut", or an "adjustment", or what?

[Liberalynn]

55. Its a cut when

a lot of the elderly are all ready living below the poverty level according to many reports. Gas, food, medicine are all going up, yet SS payments have remained stagnent for two years now.

It will be especially heinous if the cuts are still made when the PUKES are out and out refusing to close the tax loopholes.

Everything including the "trimmed benefits" should be taken off the table if they are not going to give anything in return, and I have heard nothing reassuring so far, that they are being taken off.

It's not shared sacrafice if one side gives but yet gets nothing in return.

I truly sincerely do not have anything personally against the president. I voted for him and I donated to him in the last election. I have voted Democrat in every election since I was 19. I did not sit out the last election I voted. I just think he is totally wrong on the issues of SS and Medicare.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

[boppers]

56. So, is anything less than an increase a "cut"?

How is Pelosi saying she wants to increase benefits?

[Liberalynn]

57. No I am not saying anything other than an increase is a cut.

What I am saying is there should just be no trimmings, no chained CPI, no change in the COLA, nothing! It should just be hands off period in my book. Though politicians over the generations certainly have not followed the priciple, I was taught by my Political Sciene and Ecomomics Professors that SS was always to be considered in a "locked box" totally seperate from the general fund.

SS was not ever and never will be an "entitlement." It is a bought and all ready paid for earned pension plan. Employers and Employees paid into not for it to be used by the government when it can't pay its bills, but for it to be returned to those employees who become too elderly or disabled to work. It was guarenteed to be returned to those who paid into it and was to be used for that specific purpose only. Not to fund tax breaks for the wealthy, not to fund wars.

I am sympathtic to wanting to protect it for future generations, but the commitments all ready made to and paid for by this generation must be honored first and foremost. Anything else is breach of contract and faith.

President Obama himself said it is not the driving factor of the defecit so he should just leave it alone.

[boppers]

58. A GFY:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Entitlement

[Liberalynn]

62. I know how to google

and I know the definition of entitlement. No need for condescension.

The way it has been used in terms of polical debate is what I am talking about.

Social Security is not a handout to people who are selfishly asking for something they didn't earn! That money was earned by the people and payed into the system on the promise that it would be returned to them upon retirement and/or upon becoming Disabled. PERIOD.

Trying to use it to pay down the debt or to supposedly try and save it for some future generation who has not even started paying into it yet and who may never pay into it, at the expense of those who all ready have a hard earned and vested stake in it, is hardly fair in my book.

As I said before we will just have to agree to disagree. Its my right to disagree with the President's actions in this matter just as it is your right to defend him.

[FreakinDJ]

65. "Entitlement" is an abused spin word just like "Job Creators"

Social Security is INSURANCE we all pay into with the Full Faith and Trust of the American Government

RATpubliCONs simply wish to soil the Faith and Trust

[Liberalynn]

69. That's exactly it

the PUKES have been using "entitlement" synomously with free handout which SS is not.

That is why I strongly object to any reference to SS and or Medicare as an "entitlement" by any member of any party.

[FreakinDJ]

76. Social Security INSURANCE

It is especially sinister of the RATpubliCONs who have used the SSI funds for a "Hidden Tax Cookie Jar" all these years to fund Tax Cuts for Corporations and the Wealthy Elite

We need TAX REFORM right now more then benefit cuts to get this country working again

[Lasher]

71. "Reform"

Boy has that one taken on a sinister meaning during the past decade or three.

"Entitlement" has become a dirty word, thanks to the Republican noise machine. It's just something you're entitled to, like a paycheck for an honest week's work.

[FreakinDJ]

77. Tax REFORM as in Closing Tax LoopHoles

will put this country back to work a lot quicker then benefit cuts

[Lasher]

80. That's good, but watch out for Medicare and Social Security REFORM

How about pension REFORM? Boy a lot of us took a reaming on that.

[JDPriestly]

104. Actually, closing about 1/2 of our military bases overseas would

save us money very quickly.

Or how about simply ending cost plus contracts for the military.

Why can't military contractors compete for contracts. If you decide to remodel your house, would you call just one contractor and then say bill me your costs plus. . . . .

I wouldn't do that for a plumbing job. I want to know my total bill up front. And the contractor had better beg for my signature on any overruns.

I've seen some really ugly situations when people are careless about open-ended contracts where the costs and precise work to be done are not carefully spelled out. Contractors love to tear a house apart and then tell the owner that they miscalculated the amount of work to be done or did not foresee certain problems. You have to penalize the contractor to even out cost and time overruns.

Yet our government agrees to cost-plus contracts???? That's opening the door to corruption.

[boppers]

89. Insurance is a ripoff. You pay money in, and may, or may not, get it back.

See how that works?

[No Elephants]

90. "Unjustified" What a hoot. All seniors get is the statutory formula.

How is receiving any part of the statutory formula "unjustified?" And what a word choice for allegedly receiving marginally more than inflation!

Real crooks and welfare queens, those seniors and disabled are. Is that what your word choice is supposed to imply? That attitude is the only thing that's unjustified.

The formula yields a very meager increase and does not include increases in food prices ("too volatile")and is always applied a year in arrears, so seniors and disabled are always getting screwed, no matter what.

And since Obama is also proposing to cut fuel subsidies to the poor (many of whom are poor because they are recipients of OASDI), the seniors and disabled can freeze as well as starve.

What's unjustified is anyone trying to balance the budget of the country by making any more decreases whatever in the already outrageously inadequate amount that seniors and disabled get from Old Age and Disability INSURANCE.

[boppers]

97. You buy insurance, you get scammed.

That's the game.

[Tom Rinaldo]

131. The phrase the Administration was willing to "give some ground on entitlements" has also been used

What does "giving ground" eean to you? It has always meant movement toward the other side to me.

[boppers]

160. I see TV ads every night on medicare scams.

I's like to see them stop.

[No Elephants]

87. No, not according to the OP:

{Pelosi} "told President Obama that House Democrats will not vote for any trims to future benefits in Medicare or Social Security, even a tweak to the cost-of-living index to restrain benefit growth.

As far as I know: (a) Obama is willing to go to a chintzier COLA; and (b) this represents a change in the position Pelosi took only a couple of days ago.

[boppers]

98. That's still benefits.

Is Pelosi agianst fraud?

[Fearless]

39. Good for her. The American people are behind her 100%.

[wordpix]

51. go Nancy, go! One wealthy Congressperson who hasn't forgotten her base

[SpankMe]

54. The headline is wrong.

It's really: "Obama digs in to the right of Pelosi in debt battle". Perspective is important.

[No Elephants]

91. Could be worse. At least he's not to the right of Cantor.

[craigmatic]

60. Good she should buck Obama on this deal. He's ignored his own party in the house for too long.

[Lasher]

61. Yay for Nancy!

Now there's a Democrat smart enough to play a winning hand.

[iwishiwas]

63. Good for you Nancy.

[tsuki]

68. Go Nancy! nt

[derby378]

70. Wow...

I honestly didn't think she still had it in her to do this. Good for Nancy. :applause:

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JDPriestly]

107. She will probably weaken at some point. She usually does.

But at least she is making a show of trying.

[grahamhgreen]

82. Thank goodness!

[Swampguana]

86. go nancy!

[McCamy Taylor]

92. Dems are not working against Obama. This is the old "good liberal, bad liberal" being staged for MSM

[No Elephants]

93. Does anyone remember when Pelosi dug in on the public option, avering she

did not have the votes to pass a health care reform bill without a public option. How did that work out?

A couple of days ago, Nancy said the direct opposite of what this article says she is saying now about the COLA. She said she was against all benefit cuts. However, when a reporter asked her if changing the COLA was a benefit cut, she said, "No, a benefit cut is a benefit cut, period."

Now, she is supposedly saying "No tweaks to the COLA."

Did she change her position that fast, maybe due to blowback from constituents? Or is this what the article says, merely a way to help Obama to hold the line?

Before I join the cheers, I think I'll wait to see what actually happens. Seems to be a good strategy when a Democrat takes a "firm" stand these days.

[keopeli]

118. Fair enough. This is just theater anyway.

Although it does look like they may be moving the goalposts a bit, which is good posturing for an election year.

I have to say that the Dems are getting better at confident campaigning thanks to Obama and the progressives. It's a small relief after the style of most Dems for the last 30 years.

[JDPriestly]

94. Thank you, Nancy Pelosi

The poor and elderly have already sacrificed everything they can for the country. States have cut back on services to the poor already. Wages are down. The upper 5% is doing better than ever and doesn't know why the rest of us are complaining.

The elderly have already taken huge losses to their savings accounts. What wasn't lost in their 401(K)s (if they are lucky enough to have savings in 401(K)s) is lost due to the drastic fall in the interest rates.

A lot of elderly people I know lost their jobs before they ever thought possible and are therefore dependent on Social Security earlier and far more than they ever expected to be.

[TrollBuster9090]

110. How about we start getting Democrats to start signing a CONTRACT WITH AMERICA

the way fatass Gingrich and Grover "The Grouch" Norquist did. Only this time, sign something that MATTER and which will preserve rather than destroy the country. A contract with america saying you'll vote against any cuts to medicare and social security.

[tomp]

111. no fan of pelosi by any strectch,but....

....to paint this, the only principled position to anyone even approaching progressive, as a self-serving gambit, is really bad reporting....excuse me, I meant fucked up subservience to the powers that be.

That said, let's see where everyone ends up, pelosi included.

[cate94]

112. Go Nancy!

[sellitman]

116. Bravo!

:kick:

[keopeli]

117. Looks like it's Medicaid that's gonna take the hit.

I've seen it over and over. I've watched repeats to be sure. The Democrats' meme is "No Cuts to Medicare or Social Security." I'd love to be proven wrong, but Medicaid has not entered the conversation often, except for early discussions months ago.

Perhaps this is part of the big Health Reform Event coming up. Perhaps not. Regardless, I have a lot of friends who depend on Medicaid for their chronic illnesses. I would hate to see their access to medicine reduced.

[KoKo]

123. C-Span just showed a clip of Obama saying "Medicare is unsustainable at it's current level."

So, I'd say it's on the table. If they would go after Big Pharma and put more people on the job finding some of the waste or fraud (that is always in a big program) then folks services shouldn't have to be cut, but what we always see is that Big Pharma get's benefits and they will say there's no money to hire folks to oversee the program in a more efficient way.

[FreakinDJ]

137. Obviously because Healthcare Reform needs to address

the issues or "Runaway Insurance Cost"

[SHRED]

121. "left" LOL...and sad really

Protecting Medicare and SS is now considered a Left issue.

Onward with the demonization of these entitlement programs!
:sarcasm:

[Beacool]

125. I'm not a Pelosi fan, but in this instance I applaud her.

:applause:

[harmonicon]

128. Man, I wish Pelosi had been a Democrat when she was speaker... nt.

[Inuca]

149. What utter BS

What the hell are you implying she was?!?!? She took some decisions that you did not like? OK, so what? Why are you in a better position to define what a democrat IS than Nancy Pelosi or Obama for that matter?

[Beavker]

132. Seems the Dems in the house would save face like the Repugs

have been failing to do. Vote their conscience and beliefs. If the repugs want to cut SS, and the Medi's, then they alone can vote for it to happen. They have the votes. But, they won't do it, as they can't even pass there own shit.

Maddow's "own goal" analogy segment last night on Boner was AWESOME!

[Kingofalldems]

134. Kick again

[Blue Owl]

136. Good on ya, Nancy

n/t

[AC_Mem]

138. Go Nancy

So glad to see her standing up for the Democrats!

[Cherchez la Femme]

141. Oh wow look! It's a REAL Democrat!

(Let's hope it lasts)

[Lord_Proprietor]

146. Pelosi digs in and so does the President's cousin!

WOLF: ‘German Miracle’ Barack Obama doesn’t see
Blinded by big government, the Obama Depression is no accident

By Dr. Milton R. Wolf -The Washington Times
Dr. Milton R. Wolf is a board-certified diagnostic radiologist and cousin of President Obama.

“The eye does not see what the mind does not know.” The difference between your patient’s life and death, my professors would warn, is what you see, and you cannot see what you do not know. Barack Obama cannot see a way out of America’s current economic malaise. He should ask the Germans what they know.

Obamanomics has produced the weakest, most anemic recovery since the 1930s, when another generation’s big-government planners turned their great recession into the Great Depression. To be fair, President George W. Bush certainly did not give the best economic handoff - he too was addicted to spending - but to be clear, President Obama has unarguably fumbled the ball. He has, to borrow his own phrase, put his “boot on the neck” of American businesses with his increased taxes and regulatory burden; he has grown government with his wildly increased spending and outright take-overs; and he has weakened the dollar with his “quantitative easing” printing press.

The devastation caused by Obamanomics is now undeniable.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/13/german-miracle-barack-obama-doesnt-see/

Who will be blamed for all this in the end?:think: So many of the Presidents key people have left very quietly, so he must not be listening to them and they wish to depart and not be a part of what seems to be inevitable unless someone changes his mind and brings things into line toward a solution.

[newspeak]

161. your quoting from the "looney moonie times?"

Little Boot's besides fabricating a war and allowing major war profiteering at our expense, loved deregulation, especially deregulating wall street. That's why we are in the mess today!!!! I trust corporations policing themselves as much as I'd trust someone like Jack the Ripper. How's that BP oil spill going?Our corporate media doesn't even hardly cover anymore-the people in LA are still suffering, there have been suicides, ill health, money loss, and extreme environmental damage. If you love drinking poisoned water and eating tainted food, then go ahead, because without regulation that's what you get. And since Little Boot's, we have had less regulation and a cut in those departments that are supposed to protect us.

Now Little Boot's loved control, and he did a needless department of the Fatherland, oh, I mean, home land security. We already had intelligence agencies that worked just fine, WHEN THEY ARE HEEDED. And before 9/11, Little boot's administration had warnings, August PDB, Coleen Rowley and other FBI agents, and the terrorist experts like Richard Clark, from the previous administration.

That article is pure BS-"boot on the neck of the poor corporations." They've been given carte blanche since Glass Steagal went bye-bye. They've caused more pain and harm to the public, being deregulated. Many corporations today are international-they could care less about the well being of this country or its' people, as long as they can make a profit.

And, since Little Boot's obscene tax cuts to his base; we have had less job creation. Maybe because they're sitting on the money or sending it overseas. And these tax cuts have been for over nine years, feeling any trickles from above? We don't need corporations given more power-hell, the disparity between the rich and lower/middle class has not been seen since before the great depression.

[colorado_ufo]

148. Thank you, Nancy!

For doing your job! Thank you for being our voice and standing up for our rights!

The very idea that our President would accept keeping tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires but "default" on senior citizens who have contributed to the system their entire working lives makes me sick to my stomach. Especially since contributions to Social Security and Medicare are NOT part of our regular tax system! It is NOT an entitlement program; it is a TRANSFER program.

As for the media that continually made fun of Al Gore for saying he would put Social Security in a "lock box," I would like to personally bitch-slap every one of them. Their propensity to feed on anything that they think will bring a viewer, a reader, and a buck helped cost our country its future.

[Lord_Proprietor]

152. but "default" on senior citizens....

The more I read I find that the revenue coming in each month is more than enough to keep the government going and pay SS; they are up to the old "scare the seniors with threats" of cutting SS checks. It isn't going to work this time. At 84 years, it make me ill for the President to try this again. Both parties have got to get down to business and cut spending and cut it drastically, now.

[bvar22]

153. I applaud this,

but also remember she said the same thing about the Public Option,
and then at the last minute, had to Go with The Party.

I've grown so cynical over the last 10 years (especially the last 2.5) that I see
another scene and another player in the Kabuki Theater.

I wish that at least ONE fucking time,
the outcome would be a Step to The Left after the cameras are turned off.

[lark]

154. Whoohoo, you go girl!

HOpe she stands firm, since I have a real problem believing in Obama's heretofore nonexistent spine. He could be playing us (the left) as he has done continually since he took office, and if so, she could be our only protector. Nancy knows that cuts to SSI spell doom to Dems, what's wrong with Obama that he keeps pushing for these rather than defense cuts or raising taxes? I still think he's the trojan horse president, but hope this time I'm really wrong.

[colsohlibgal]

158. Big Kudos Nancy!

Stay strong!

[Vidar]

163. Good for Pelosi's, though it's hard to move to the right of Obama without switching parties.