Liberal group threatens to pull Obama support

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP

CHICAGO (AP) - A liberal group upset over potential cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security delivered pledges Friday to President Barack Obama's national campaign headquarters threatening to pull its support.

About a dozen people representing the Progressive Change Campaign Committee delivered what they said were 200,000 pledges from people who will refuse to donate or volunteer for Obama's re-election campaign if he cuts the entitlement programs.

"It's not a question of who they're going to support for president, they're going to vote for Barack Obama. It's a question of where their time and money is going to go," spokesman T. Neil Sroka said.

Obama has been taking heat from the left over the debt ceiling negotiations, in which he has been willing to target the long-standing programs. His approach is certain to sit better with independent voters, many of whom have told pollsters they want Washington politicians to work together to solve the big problems.

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20110715/D9OGA1LG1.html

---

Jan Bees a member of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee is upset over potential cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security walks to President Obama's campaign headquarters to deliver 200,000 signatures from people who are refusing to donate or volunteer for his re-election campaign if Obama cuts entitlement programs, Friday, July. 15, 2011 in Chicago. (AP Photo/David Banks)

[villager]

1. He wanted his feet held to the fire, yes?

Perhaps he meant "only by Republicans," though...

[No Elephants]

11. It's what he said, but whenever anyone tried, we got Scolding Obama.

Remember his riffs about the public option after he was criticized for abandoning it?

There have been other occasions for him or someone else in the WH to put us in our place. One was not very long ago.

I don't remember what it was, but I remember Jon Stewart's remark after airing a clip of him scolding us.

"He's so very disappointed in us. And his biggest disappointment in us is our disappointment in him."

[meow mix]

27. from "who cares what you think" to "drug testing for professional left"

made it clear he wont be engaged on any topics... regardless of feets and fires.

[No Elephants]

121. I had forgotten about the drug testing part of the "professional left" remark.

Guess I blocked it.

[SSDA]

82. George bush could not get away with this.

Even bush could not get his ss scam through congress. And we are going to allow obama to do it?



Why?

[No Elephants]

123. Because we really have no idea how to stop him from doing it?

[stockholmer]

153. ahh, nothing like 'left-cover' , brought to you by the systemic controller's 'continuity of agenda'

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy."

- Carrol Quigley, Tragedy and Hope (1966)

[dotymed]

155. It is an old axiom but it's true.

A repuglican cannot destroy a Democratic "sacred cow" (a social contract with Americans)so they get someone with a "D" behind their name to do it, and it works, almost every time....

[midnight]

226. I think that's why Rupert Murdock like Obama being President...

There is a similar response from this man saying about the same thing...

[24601]

160. Think in terms of "Only Nixon coud go to China" n/t

[harvey007]

169. And now the Chinese own our sorry asses

:cry:

[Union Scribe]

128. And, worse, Scolding Obama Fans.

[Hawkowl]

175. I HATE the scolding Obama fans. nt

[patrice]

206. I wonder if you could tell me please how you know who really is what in this environment. HATE seems

such a strong word, especially when the probabilities and consequences of error are so high.

Do you take everything you see on the internet at face value? Ever watch Stephen Colbert? Do people ever say things that may or may not be true solely for effect? If one side in an argument can do it, can't the other also? And if they're both doing it, where does that leave you?

Are you aware that HATE is what Wars are made of?

I already know that you are going to say I'm "scolding", because you have so clearly already made up your mind about some extremely complex and ambiguous things, but I really am honestly asking you to explain the questions above to me. I'm very puzzled and genuinely curious.

I promise I will be nice in Reply if you will too, but then I DO recognize that might not be possible since you've already decided that you HATE people you don't actually know and very possibly do not understand.

[Hawkowl]

231. To be precise

I don't 'HATE' the scolders. It is the unquestioning support of Obama. My hatred is of the particular attitude of "we must follow the leader" even if it means going over a cliff with him. I hate this unquestioning, unconditional support in a any person. For how else are you truly going to help your leader, your country and yourself, if you can not give and take honest criticsm, and correct mistakes?

And no, I don't find you a scolder. And yes, hate is a strong word, and I mean it.

[primavera]

245. You're in excellent company

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

[NCarolinawoman]

246. Wonderful quote by Theodore Roosevelt!

That quote should be brought up over and over again.:thumbsup:

[BNJMN]

248. Theodore "Rough Rider" Roosevelt is good company? M'Okay. [nt]

[patrice]

247. Agreed . . . with the proviso that I can scold from time to time. I'm old & getting tired of all of

the careless thinking, because what we need most is people who can think AND are courageous.

Right now, it looks like so many of the "brave" are the dumb, probably because they don't know what they are talking about or don't care.

Sorry! I was a little too sharp with you! I feel things like HATE too and I'm fighting that in myself because I KNOW it will affect my mental capacities, something all of us should need to be more careful about.

Thanks for not freaking out on me! :-)

[SSDA]

242. Personality over policy.

[pam4water]

178. +1

[Cherchez la Femme]

68. Hmmm... & I always thought

there was more machismo than masochist to him...

[shanti]

116. yes!

but he said a lot of things.

[CoffeeCat]

2. It's disheartening that preserving...

Soc Sec, Medicare and Medicaid is a PROGRESSIVE issue. Very sad that so
many ignorant Republicans (especially the tea baggers) have been duped
into fighting against their own interests.

Republicans, Independents and Democrats should be united in fighting
these cuts.

We don't need to cut these programs to balance the budget. Yes, Grover
Nordquist and his ilk want to get their grubby paws on those programs
and dismantle them. We can't let them use the debt ceiling as an
excuse to socially engineer many middle-class and poor senior citizens
into dire circumstances.

It's so bizarre that these cuts are even on the table.

Proud of this Progressive group. Obama needs to hear this.

[No Elephants]

24. I'm not so sure these are only liberal issues. I remember the town meetings

where Obama spoke, where people were showing up with guns holstered on their calves, chests, etc.

He claimed people he spoke to that summer were telling him they didn't want government interfering with their health care and he should leave their Medicare alone.

I'm sure the President wouldn't have lied about something like that, right?

ETA: Remember, after a certain age, Medicare is mandatory, at least for OASDI recipients and Obama wants to means test and charge recipients who have more money a higher premium. I can't imagine many Republicans wanting that, no matter how much they have. In fact, I just read a post on another thread that Dick Armey, accomplice of the Koch crime family, is suing the government to allow him out of Medicare.

[AntiFascist]

46. The bottom line is that workers pay into SS and Medicare...

it doesn't matter if they are Republican or Democrat, and most want something in return.

[defendandprotect]

52. Butthis is a Democratic Party President who has put these programs on the table ...!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. No shit. Well said.

:thumbsup:

[annabanana]

170. +1. . . . . . .. .n/t

[Laurab]

176. Well said, indeed. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

186. Shame on Obama for putting them on the table. He deserves to pay the price politically for this bs.

Though he probably won't.

Something else must be in play, like he doesn't need the millions of votes he is sure to lose over this. :shrug:

[CakeGrrl]

3. ...and they use a RW radio talk show to get their message out?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x711771

Doesn't sound like sound Progressive strategy to me.

[Tarheel_Dem]

5. It's called the "FireBagger" strategy. Remember Healthcare Reform?

Firedog Lake, where the far left & the Tea Party intersect. :crazy:

[No Elephants]

17. Communists are the far left. I have yet to see a Teabagger touting communism.

Care to explain?

I sure hope you aren't using rw terminology wherein anyone left of the person speaking is the "far" left, or worse.

[Tarheel_Dem]

19. I can't explain it either. You'll have to ask Hamsher & Grover Norquist.

As FDL is where they all meet up. :hi:

[No Elephants]

22. You posted it, so I asked you. I ask again. What did you mean by "far left."

[The Big Vetolski]

77. Shee-it. And you probably think Kucinich is crazy because he

said he saw something in the sky and didn't know what it was.

[Tarheel_Dem]

217. Yup.

;)

[inna]

159. really lame and ridiculous smear, fyi

[Dawgs]

38. At least they support the left.

Obama is struggling to stay to the left of Reagan.

[No Elephants]

127. He is?

[Tarheel_Dem]

218. Let's call all this what it really is....

A desperate search for relevance in the age of Obama. Professional activists have to remain relevant to get much needed attention to elevate their own profiles, and to get you to donate. Good luck with that. :hi:

[Duke Newcombe]

42. Smear by Association...nice.

Mr. Rove would be proud of the unintentional disciples he's inspired.

[No Elephants]

12. Gee, I wonder who they were trying to reach and convince.

[JackRiddler]

18. If they were on NBC or CNN, would you consider these to be "LW" media?

Oh, but NBC and CNN and PBS and the other networks don't put them on, they're too busy with AEI and David Brooks.

That link says nothing, by the way. A poster here calls it a "right-wing radio station," doesn't specify the program or what was actually said by the PCCC.

What is wrong with progressive groups speaking to all audiences, including those on the right? If you had a chance to address a few million right-wingers, what would you say? Nothing? Would you insult them? Would you not try to persuade them of something?

[No Elephants]

21. Maybe Democrats are supposed to save their breath to speak only

to people who already agree with them?

[frylock]

25. obama has given interviews to fox..

do you have a point to make?

[Bluenorthwest]

75. Calling Richard Roeper a right winger is shitty and incorrect.

What basis do you have for calling these guys RW? The Tea Party hates their guts. Roeper was partnered with Roger Ebert on that film review show.
Show some evidence that the show is RW, please.

[rhett o rick]

101. I think using a RW radio talk show to broadcast their message is brilliant. But you are so determine

determined to spew hate toward the left you cant see it. The left wants to save SS and Medicare but apparently you side with the Repukes and are willing to compromise and give up SS and Medicare, just like you did with Health Care, the WArs and the Bush/Obama tax cuts. Whose side are you really on???

[Union Scribe]

130. How many times has Obama been on Fox now?

(edit: sorry Frylock, didn't see you'd already brought up this gaping hole in their media purity theory)

[eilen]

179. How many times has he been on Democracy Now?

I thought so.

[KaryninMiami]

4. Ok so yes- we progressives are pissed off and it's important to let him know-

but does anyone really think we won't be supporting him in 2012? I mean really- are we not going to vote or vote for whatever monster they are running on the red team? Really? Does it make sense at this point, to show the Repugs that we are threatening Obama? I get it-- we need to speak out but don't you think he knows he's pissing off the progressives by mentioning cuts to the big 3? Seems like our energies could be used elsewhere....

[Jokerman]

6. "refusing to donate or volunteer"

Is NOT the same as not voting or voting for someone else. The article goes on to say, "It's not a question of who they're going to support for president, they're going to vote for Barack Obama. It's a question of where their time and money is going to go," spokesman T. Neil Sroka said."

I agree with them completely. I'll never vote for a republican but I may decide that the time, effort and money I donated to Obama last time just isn't worth it this time around.

[No Elephants]

26. I'm not sure how Sroka knows all liberals will vote for Obama, or even

all 200,000 of the liberals described in the OP will vote for Obama.

[go west young man]

183. Maybe you should read the petition.

Those 200,000 liberal people did.

[No Elephants]

221. They will vote however they want, no matter what the petition says.

That was my point

[KarmakazeNZ]

244. Show me the difference between Bush and Obama...

And I will agree that you would "never vote for a republican".

As far as I am concerned there is no difference. What exactly did Obama promise that he has delivered on? In fact what exactly have the republicans wanted that obama HASN'T given them?

[slay]

14. I do not support much of Obama's actions since he got elected

wars, no real health care reform, tax cuts for billionaires, talks of cutting SS and medicare, etc. he does not have my vote at this point - and i don't know that there is any way i would ever trust the man again. that said - i will never vote republican and i feel fairly confidant that Obama will win in 2012. he just very well may do it without my vote. i don't like what he's done - why would i vote for it again? just cause republicans are scary? sorry, i will not be scared into voting FOR someone. any vote for Obama at this point is purely a vote AGAINST the republicans - which i am against. something to think about - but he does not have my support, i will not volunteer or donate to him like i did last time. i'll have to think long and hard about the vote.

*edited for spelling

[bahrbearian]

76. +1

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pholus]

187. Wowzers and that is the BEST statement of the day!

Thanks for putting that so clearly!

[lindalou65]

188. In total agreement

with you on this. The current deficit situation is a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenario. I would like to hear how those people who are so critical of Obama's stance on the deficit reduction would resolve the issue in a way that would be acceptable to everyone. I just don't know if that is possible. Apparently, some people who comment here are far more knowledgeable than Obama on how to resolve the crisis our nation is in. Maybe some of them should "step into his shoes" for a day!

[No Elephants]

20. I doubt liberals will vote Republican, but some of them will not vote for Obama.

Voting Republican or voting for Obama are not the only two choices on Election Day.

Some will vote for Obama. Some will write in a name on the Presidential line. Some will vote third party and some will stay home, which is my least favorite thing to hear from any American, but especially a Democrat.

I am starting to get the feeling that one or more Democrats may even challenge him in the primary, a possibility I rejected out of hand as recently as a week or two ago.

If any one to the left of him does that, it will be very interesting to watch.

[defendandprotect]

54. +1

[AverageJoe90]

43. Agreed.

I may not have been very happy with some of the Commander-in-Chief's decisions, but it doesn't look like we have anyone better......betcha 90% of us are still gonna vote for him anyway.

[defendandprotect]

53. Obama needs to move to left -- and you're suggesting we're going to vote for the right?

My conscience won't permit me to vote for Obama -- he played his cards on

Social Secuirty and Medicare -- and in trampling single payer option in making

back room deals with Big Pharma and private H/C industry -- large contributors

to his campaign chest.

Obama/Dems supporting two Bush wars going for more than 10 years now and bankrupting

our Treasury --


but does anyone really think we won't be supporting him in 2012?

I'll be voting for a liberal -- someone like Alan Grayson --

Don't know what anyone else here will be doing but they sure won't be voting for

anyone on the right!!

I do think the answer to your question, therefore, is "MAYBE" ...


I'd suggest, it's over --

I think voters are beginning to understand that the more you vote for the "lesser evil"

the further you move the party and Congress to the RIGHT -- !!

[The Big Vetolski]

79. Uh-oh! You're making sense again! Stop it or I'll hold my breath!

:toast:

[harvey007]

171. It's time to move past the false left-right paradigm

It's now all about top vs. bottom.

[No Elephants]

222. You and my sig line agree.

[sce56]

73. He has to win the primary!

[Scuba]

7. When did protecting Social Security become a far-left fantasy?

[neverforget]

8. When the President is a Democrat who suggests cuts/changes to

FDR or LBJ programs that's when. Can you imagine a Republican President doing this? ALL of DU would be up in arms.

This isn't the Democratic Party that I know.

[No Elephants]

28. +1.

The DLC was very effective. Worth every penny the Koch brothers donated to it while they were thinking up the Tea Party, and then some.

Next up to take the Party even further right perhaps: No Labels. Founded by someone who worked in a Democratic administration or two, but now appears on TV with the subtitle "Republican strategist."

It may not do as much damage as the DLC, but it doesn't sound to me as though it will do any good. (Wonder who's funding that one.)

[defendandprotect]

56. +1

Basically what some DU'ers are suggesting is that we should support

Obama no matter what he does --

Think they're in for a big bad surprise!!

[roxiejules]

9. +1

n/t

[myrna minx]

59. Apparently we're commanded to sit down, shut up, obey and vote as we're told.

Principles are for losers.

[QC]

167. In the words of a hymn beloved of evangelicals, we must "Trust and Obey."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q00TXBPl9i4

[judesedit]

10. And what? Vote for the party that does absolutely nothing for them...unless they're rich, of course

How stupid is that? Instead of gaining support. the protesters make threats that will only hurt themselves. Are you sure they aren't members of the tea party? There are changes in Social Security needed. People like John McCain collect ...(I don't care if he was a POW..he opted to stay there and, why not? HE was eating steak dinners!) THe guy doesn't even know how many homes he owns???? Does he need it? NO WAY! That's bullshit. His 2007 tax return said he collected $23,000 from social security. He could refuse it. He says he cares about the deficit so much. That's on top of the $54,000. in veterans' benefits he collects. And $169,000 in salary we pay him. Wake up so-called "Progressive" Change. You're fighting the wrong party.

[w4rma]

13. The line has been crossed. (nt)

[No Elephants]

29. Please see Reply 6. And they don't seem to be fighting any Party.

They seem to be protesting certain policies of Obama, as are a number of Democratic members of the House and Senate.

Obama's policies are not the Democratic Party and neither is Obama.

P.S. I don't think McCain is running for President anymore.

[fascisthunter]

36. it's a threat to get him to do what we want

it's all WE the People have left... it's our only choices left. This is how it's always been done. If you keep voting for the same, NOTHING changes, and politicians will expect you to accept that. We are way beyond the point where we need to worry about what will happen, because it is happening and it isn't stopping or slowing down. We are losing our nation to the Wealthy class.

[defendandprotect]

58. Maybe they're waking to fact that more we vote for "lesser evil" more it moves party to right ....

and Congress to the right?

They may simply see the handwriting on the wall -- ?


Imo, this should have happened twenty years ago -- and with women's groups as well --

and unions --

Now that unions have almost nothing in the way of money to give to the Dems any longer

not much concern about them in the party --

Same with women -- once their right to Roe vs Wade is traded -- reproductive freedom

and no ERA -- where are they in the party --


Look at Biden as our VP -- he put Clarence Thomas on the court --

by ensuring that witnesses against Clarence Thomas were never heard from -- almost a

dozen of them!

Biden has also been warmongering for more than a year trying to get Israel to attack Iran.

Biden says -- "Israel would be JUSTIFIED in attacking Iran" -- !!


Give me two strong anti-war candidates -- democrats who are humanists and who care about

the people -- especially the neediest among us!!

[defendandprotect]

57. Only YOU are suggesting that we want a move to the LEFT so we'll vote for the right !!!:

:eyes:

What has greatly hurt this liberal nation over decades, however, is continuing

to vote for the "lesser evil" which only moves the party and the Congress further

to the right!




"there are changes in Social Security needed" .... ?????


EVERYONE HAS TO COLLECT ... OR IT BECOMES A WELFARE PROGRAM -- !!

ANYONE WHO PAYS IN SHOULD COLLECT --


We do need to raise the cap on FICA payments for the wealthy, however -- that's always

been automatically done!!

[MrMickeysMom]

166. If this is fighting the "wrong party", you better check your invitiation...

... the parties on both sides are ignoring what the majority of Americans want them to do.

Obama never was progressive... he was admittedly conservative. Many Democrats are, so we shouldn't be surprised that to hold one's feet to the fire, ONE MUST GET HIS ASS KICKED PRETTY HARD.

He can either respond or not have a 2nd term.

[ProSense]

15. PCCC is only relevant

to the MSM who want to create the appearance Obama is losing support.

Here is PCCC's post at Daily Kos.

Most people aren't buying the group's bullshit spin.

[No Elephants]

30. Is that link supposed to support your statement that this group isn't relevant?

If so, I'm not sure how it supports your statement.

Do you have a link that does? If not, how do you know it's not relevant?

[brentspeak]

37. "Most people aren't buying the group's bullshit spin."

Wait, stop. Let me get this straight:

You of all people are accusing some other entity of "bull$hit spin"?????

Bwahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ProSense]

113. .

From the OP:

"It's not a question of who they're going to support for president, they're going to vote for Barack Obama. It's a question of where their time and money is going to go," spokesman T. Neil Sroka said.

Now that's funny, $86 million funny.

:rofl:

[No Elephants]

131. As if he knows how 200,000 disappointed people would vote tomorrow, let alone

in November 2012.

[EFerrari]

104. LOL

[PSPS]

16. "they're going to vote for Barack Obama"

"It's not a question of who they're going to support for president, they're going to vote for Barack Obama. It's a question of where their time and money is going to go," spokesman T. Neil Sroka said.

No they won't. They just won't vote. That was the obvious lesson in the 2010 mid-term elections. Well, obvious to everyone except "T. Neil Sroka."

[No Elephants]

31. Aw, come on. Sroka interviewed each of the 200,000 and not a one of them

is going to change his or her mind between now and November 2012.

Radio and TV stations used to have formulas. For every viewer who contacted them to complain or praise, they assumed a certain number of thousands felt the same, but did not bother to contact them.

If those formulas apply, Obama may be open to a primary challenge, something I thought was unthinkable. I still doubt it will really happen, but my level of certainty is shakier than it used to be.

At a minimum, expect to hear a lot about hard choices, adult conversations and how good all this is for the country between now and 2012.

[defendandprotect]

60. True ... and do you remember the less Obama took from 2010? "I'll compromise more!" ...!!!

[mahannah]

23. Social Security is not an entitlement program.

[Dawgs]

39. Huh? We're not ENTITLED to something we've paid into our entire lives?

Okay. :eyes:

[Liberalynn]

45. +10000

That's my problem with all of this.

It's not like private company insurance/pension at all. There you have a choice whether you want to buy a policy or not. With SS and Medicare they didn't give us one. We were forced to pay into the systems with the promise that money would be returned to us when we became too old or too disabled to work.

To refuse to honor the promise to return the money now is breach of contract pure and simple.

[No Elephants]

132. EXCELLENT point. And a private insurer does pay.

[julian09]

48. Says Who

Yes you are entitled but only if there is money left, unless you want blank checks.:sarcasm:

[trud]

55. julian

Anyone who's now collecting regular SS has been taxed more than they will ever get back, counting the compound interest that money has earned. So if there's no money left, there are thieves in the building. I think we all know who those thieves are.

[julian09]

80. actually I'm more concerned about Medicare than Soc

As the baby boomer's are going into Medicare; that means that medicare costs will go up as people come from the private insurance providers into medicare. Private Ins providers will see COSTS go down as riskier clients are enrolled in Medicare. But premiums will be still go up on primary as well as medi-gap plans.
Medicaid is another story.

[defendandprotect]

61. "Entitlement" is just another legitimate word that Repugs have been permitted to demonize ....

The way they use it -- it becomes something filthy -- intentionally --

But, you are of course correct -- it's an insurance program that we all pay into --

And there is no way that any of us individually could afford personally to buy such

an insurance program as Social Security provides for citizens and their dependents --

in health or disabled -

[SammyWinstonJack]

189. It is but not the way Obama and the rest of those who want to get their greedy paws on it, means it.

We are most certainly entitled to what we have paid into and it's not we had a choice whether to pay in or not. So while we were forced to live up to our end of the bargain, they are unwilling to do the same.

Fuck that! :argh:

[No Elephants]

32. 200,000 signatures from Democrats protesting Obama's policies while

the OP of another thread speaks of all of, wait for it, 50 Republicans protesting Grijalva's stands.

And, for all I know, those 50 were paid to show up. . People came from all over the country to Scott Brown's rallies. We in Massachusetts had barely heard of him, though he was an irrelevant state senator and already people were just coming to Massachusetts from as far away as Seattle, Washington to hear him speak. Riiiiight.

And I'm Santa Claus.

[julian09]

50. Bet half those people didn't get off their couch.

[eridani]

102. The questionnaire asked me how many hours and dollars I'd donated in 2008

They posted testimonials from people who outdid my $500 and 200 hours by a long shot.

[No Elephants]

120. Let's assume you're right, even though that was right out of the air. What would it prove,

in your mind, if only 100,000 of them got off their couches?

[defendandprotect]

62. +1 ---

[Vidar]

33. Excellent: a group I'd be happy to join, but the link didn't contain that information.

[Vidar]

34. Here's the link to join the organization.

http://boldprogressives.org/

[fascisthunter]

35. This is how we can pressure Obama

in fact, it's all we can do besides trying to elect progressives and liberals.

[defendandprotect]

85. Don't think that's it -- think we all realize we have NO leverage over Obama....

and Obama acts as if he knows that -- in fact wasn't that the message delivered

from on high via Koch Bros/DLC Rahm Emmanuel to liberals?

There's always a lot more we can do -- when we begin talking about it --

these discussions haven't even begun here at DU yet -- !!

[larwdem]

114. so

you are saying stay the course

[defendandprotect]

181. Eh .. no -- to the contrary ... I am saying we need a Plan B -- and should be discussing it --

As I said ...

There's always a lot more we can do -- when we begin talking about it --

these discussions haven't even begun here at DU yet -- !!


For one, we can try to draft Sen. Bernie Sanders who is a better democrat than

most of our Dems -- he can run on a Dem ticket --

We could try Alan Grayson -- there are tons of democrats who can run on the ticket

who are not from inside the party -- and aren't pre-bribed and pre-owned by corporate $$ ---


We need two strong anti-war democrats -- maybe Tom Hayden for VP --

Name your favorites!!

[No Elephants]

134. We can, but they are assuring people they will still vote for Obama.

Obama's people already say "The left has nowhere else to go," the implication being "therefore no one has to worry what the left likes or doesn't like. Let's go further right in quest of all those Indies!"

So how is this allegedly bold group going to effect change?

How about one of the Primary Obama groups?

http://newprogs.org/primary-obama-ads-roll-through-dc

[tblue]

40. Obama keeps treating us the way he should be treating republicans.

He equates standing up for very popular Democratic policies with the dickishness of Republicans. I'm tired of progressives being scolded and ignored time after time after time.

[KoKo]

63. We are told to look at his "Poker Skills, Boxing Skills and Chess Playing Skills...and

not to see the "Man (Banksters) Behind the Curtain...who Run him.........

Sad that. So much Promise and FEET DO need to be HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

[defendandprotect]

64. Great point --- sometimes it's hard to tell who Obama thinks the enemy is ...

too often it looks like he thinks it's liberal Dems!!

[Dystopian]

41. KandR

My name was on that list.


peace~

[Liberalynn]

47. so was mine

[Dystopian]

87. Thank you for checking in....

Awesome to know other DUers were together in spirit..

peace~

[Creideiki]

109. And mine. Former Democratic Precinct Committeperson.

And then the Democratic Party decided they didn't want liberals, so I resigned.

[No Elephants]

136. Come again? I don't think I heard you correctly.

[Enthusiast]

84. Mine too.

The Obama Administration probably has me on several 'lists'. The group W bench list for one.

[Dystopian]

88. Good for us! All of us....

And then there were three...

Thank you...
I wonder how many more DUers signed, pledged, and were delivered.

peace~

[MissDeeds]

243. Mine too n/t

[hay rick]

44. It's not a question of who they're going to support for president...

Umm, yes it is.

[DesertFlower]

49. lawrence o'donnell just talked about this on his show.

[defendandprotect]

65. ... and .... ????

is it worth tuning into the repeat for?

[DesertFlower]

118. not really.

[defendandprotect]

51. Obama is effectively destroying what's left of the Democratic Party ...

though, realistically, imo women and unions hung in too long with the party

and have lost a great deal doing that -- and now have basically no leverage

with Obama and this Dem Party!!

[KoKo]

66. Either his "Three Dimensional Chess, Boxing "Rope-A-Dope" Skills will Prevail...OR...

We Progressives are SUNK....

What else is there? :shrug: Our HOPE remains with him because there's nothing else.

[defendandprotect]

89. Liberals are a huge voting bloc -- and this is a liberal nation .... !!!

and you believe we have no where to go?

Why ... ? Because Koch Bros./DLC Rahm Emmanuel tossed obscenities at us

and told us that?

Seems to me there's too much fear here at DU about looking at reality --

we're not going to find solutions to fascism in enveloping ourselves in fear!!



:)

[KoKo]

92. "I" am not afraid "D&P" so don't go attacking me!

But, I know what we are up against and tell me who is the "Progressive Leader?" Where's the "Flag" we can rally round.

That was the point of my post. "It is What it Is." And, this is Obama, our President that we Elected doing this stuff. He's what we got...

[defendandprotect]

107. In general, we have a lot of "fear-based" thinking and posting ....

here --

Didn't mean to attack you -- but honestly, as long as you're breathing you have

somewhere to go!!

We elected someone totally different from what we've seen of this president and

his pro-corporate decision making --


I'm not one who argues that we don't need leaders -- but we have had 50 years and

more of right wing political violence -- assassinations -- eventually taking out liberal

leaders before they even have had a chance to rise.

Violence is the only way that the right wing can rise -- that and stolen elections.


Everything about the GOP is created with money --

GOP/Religious right -- GOP gave start-up money for the Christian Coalition --

Richard Scaife funded Dobson's group -- other wealthy rw's financed Bauer's group.

GOP/"pro-life" --- has been funded for decades by white supremacist groups --

Supreme Court failed to allow RICO laws to be applied to them --

"Pro-life" demonstrators were solicited from Methadone clinics and PAID ---

"pro-life" murderers encouraged among extremist religious groups, like those of

Randall Terry's --

GOP/NRA -- GOP radicalized the NRA to target not only liberals and moderates in the

Dem Party, but liberals and moderates in their own party thereby moving the Congress

to the right.

GOP/T-Baggers -- funded by Koch Bros and run out of a PR firm guaranteeing them publicity.


Even within the Democratic Party we had 20 years of infiltration by Koch Bros funded DLC --

influencing not only the party on issues and agenda -- but influencing its candidates --

even our presidential candidates!

On and on --


There are tons of democrats who can run on the Dem Party ticket -- who aren't pre-bribed

and pre-owned by corporations.

[No Elephants]

137. a Primary Obama group?

[Lorien]

72. Yep. nt

[Enthusiast]

86. It cannot be an accident or

collateral damage.

[defendandprotect]

90. I've long thought that ...

Certainly Koch Bros weren't interested in funding a strong Democratic Party --

How weak would be weak enough for them?

[unkachuck]

67. K&R....n/t

[cstanleytech]

70. Whats so wrong with it if the cuts are mainly just a change

so the programs geared more towards providing medicare assistance based on income and assests? It wouldnt then effect the poorest who cant afford a cut would it?

[defendandprotect]

91. Since when these days are we seeing "change" that is positive?

Let's create MEDICARE FOR ALL -- that would help our suffering citizens --

It would save the government money -- it would create 2.3 million new jobs -- !!

However, Obama engaged in back room deals with Big Pharma and Prive H/C industry ---

large campaign supporters of his -- to do just the opposite!!


In the end, Koch Bros./DLC Rahm Emmanuel was "crowing" about the fact that Obama

'PRESERVED THE PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM' --- and how GRATEFUL business should be

for all he'd done for them!!


If you want more info on that, let me know!



Let's reduce Social Security retirement age to 62 -- we have retired folks collecting

Social Security and because the checks are so low they have to take on one or two other

jobs -- meanwhile kids getting out of school can't find jobs -- 6 months, a year --

maybe longer?

Social Security checks should be at least doubled --

Look at it this way -- every $1 anyone had is now worth 50 cents --

Obama/Dems of course know that --

I'd also say that they've clearly known that this was a depression from the beginning --

[eridani]

103. Medicare is already means tested

Dropping individual retirement income where you start to pay more from $85K to, say $30K, would fuck over, and possibly even kill, a significant number of people.

[cstanleytech]

122. This people imo are being silly for getting upset for him bringing it up if thats

true.

[eridani]

125. What Obama bringing it up means is ominous for two reasons

Either he doesn't even know that Medicare is already means tested, which means he doesn't give a fuck about doing his homework about a major program that older people heavily depend on. Or--

He wants to drop the means tested income level from $85K to $30K or something of the sort.

Either way, it creeps me out.

[cstanleytech]

133. Or

its still early and he only mentioned it at all because he was asked for example of some of the ideas so far being discussed, either way its a tad early to be complaining until its announced for what cuts and or changes he is proposing be made.

[eridani]

141. It most assuredly is NOT too early to let Obama know that ZERO

--cuts to SocSec and Medicare are acceptable. Raising the FICA tax? Sure, go for it. He talked about that in 2008, but have heard more about cuts than about FICA caps this year.

[EFerrari]

106. Medicare is already bare bones as it is.

It pays so little many docs don't even take it and it takes so long to get paid that also prices a lot of providers out, too. This is not some cadillac medical coverage where there is fat to "trim".

[cstanleytech]

119. How is that remotely related to

asking if it would be so bad if the government based the coverage you get with the program on your income and assets?

[EFerrari]

129. If you're referring to means testing, it already is. n/t

[cstanleytech]

135. I'm refering to your post.

You went on how its bare bones and such you didnt discuss the means testing though, that was the person above you who mentioned means testing.

[20score]

71. Hopefully this will have some effect on him. Obliviously the 2010 losses didn't.

Although it should have woken him and some others to reality. If Obama had governed the way he said he would in the campaign, we would not have a Republican House now and this petition would not have been written.

[bahrbearian]

83. He thought he got a shellacking, which he did because he did he never took a firm stance.

[defendandprotect]

94. See ....

my post above --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4922082&mesg_id=4922586

[defendandprotect]

93. Remember Obama's immediate reaction to 2010 loss? "I'll compromise more!" ... !!!

Public understood his trampling of universal health care in back room deals

with Big Pharma and private H/C providers -- !!

And Koch Bros DLC Rahm Emmanuel CROWED about how "grateful" business should be to

Obama for all he'd done for them -- including having 'PRESERVED THE PRIVATE HEALTH

CARE SYSTEM' -- !!!




:nuke:

[bahrbearian]

97. +1

[KoKo]

95. Losing Ted Kennedy's seat to a REPUG should have awakened him. After all Ted's endorsement

is why so many of us accepted Obama even though his credentials were weak and we thought he might be a bit too young. Teddy SOLD HIM...and he allowed Tim Kaine to ignore Ted's seat in MA when he died and we got that Repug in. Then "tiny TIM KAINE" lost the House to the Repugs!

[No Elephants]

138. If you have relatively conservative legislation in mind, it may be

politically useful NOT to have sixty members in you Senate caucus

[skepticscott]

74. Uh, do they not get

that it was people pulling their support from Democrats in 2010 that created this situation in the first place? Sheesh.

[cstanleytech]

78. Magic 8 ball says "Doubtful".

[EFerrari]

81. 2010 was Independents voting Republican, not Democratic. n/t

[No Elephants]

139. Or, maybe it was supporting Democrats, no matter what they did, that

got us here.

We made it very safe for them to ignore us. "The Left has nowhere else to go."

So, then they go further right, in hopes of getting the votes of Indies and maybe some disaffected Republicans.

And then, Republicans have to go further right to make sure there's enough daylight between them and Democrats.

And the cycle continues, taking the country further and further right.

That may be what you want. I don't know. I'm not sure it is what I want.

[Somawas]

96. I'm out if he folds.

[defendandprotect]

98. Just don't go off alone ... remember we have a huge liberal voting bloc ...

stick together and work on a way to go to be effective -- !!


:)

[harun]

108. +1

[Somawas]

157. Vote, yes. Contribute: No. Volunteer: No.

[defendandprotect]

180. Obviously, we need to primary Obama ... unless we want 4 more years of this ..?

[Somawas]

214. I'd favor it. Alan Grayson or Kucinich or Bernie Sanders. I'm any with any of them.

[defendandprotect]

219. We need Dems to begin stepping up -- !!

[SoutherDem]

99. What if there were 4 or 5 running for POTUS ...

... in the general election?

I really don't want to join the debate as to support Obama or not, I have an opinion, but would rather not state it.

Although some disagree, many feel so far 3rd party candidates only dilutes the results causing the opposite, the less desirable candidate to win.

But what if we had 4 or 5 legitimate choices, Progressive, Democrat, Republican, Tea-Party (maybe a moderate in the middle, or very extreme to the right or left) Rather than diluting one side or the other it may spread the field so that a choice doesn't mean guaranteed loss.

[ProSense]

100. Bernie Sanders: Elections Have Consequences

Elections Have Consequences

[Major Hogwash]

124. "We tried elections. They don't work." -- Senaturtle McConnell.

That's about the biggest disconnect I have ever heard from a sitting US Senator in the last 50 years!!

[No Elephants]

140. They sure seem to when Republicans win them. Bush and his Republican Congress sure got a lot done.

[ProSense]

154. Um

invading a country and destroying the economy is not getting a lot done. In fact, Bush is on the low rung of Presidents when it comes to accomplishments. Still, don't let facts get in the way of hyping one of the worst Presidents in history.

[No Elephants]

223. Bull puckey. I hated everything they did, from Iraq to WOT to Afghanistan to

Patriot Act, to faith-based initiatives, to GITMO to extraordinary rendition to Bagram to fighting FOIA requests and so on.

I was not approving of the substance of what they did. Just noting that they went after they agenda--and with less of a majority than we had 2009-2011.


I've never hyped Bush's agenda though and never will--even if a Democratic President pursues a good portion of it.

[nobodyspecial]

105. Yes, because we all know the GOP will do everything

in their power to protect them when they get elected in 2012.

And, no, this isn't a threatened boogeyman. It's reality.

[No Elephants]

224. It is a reality that a Republican may win. That's been true every election since Abe Lincoln.

And it is also a threat.

The more Democrats go right, though, the less of a threat it is.

[humbled_opinion]

110. Oh but we will be told that

Privatization is the truly Progressive reform for SS and Medicare because that way the poorest among us will have real investment in their futures, investments in the country, investments that will grow...

Eat our Peas????????? Eat our PEAS???? No Mr. President take the PEAS off the table.

[patrice]

111. I'm not sure why we are supposed to take everything at face value. 200,000 whos have done what?

aside from collecting signatures. You've heard of Citizens' United? Groups such as this could get their funding from anyone. There ARE Republicans who do not want Medicare PAYMENTS touched and the "cut" meme exists pretty much right up there with "support our troops" at this point in terms of concrete meaning.

Those of this 200,000 who know one another and/or others, so they and the rest of us have some way of knowing who actually worked on Democratic campaigns and such, that is one thing; their commitment and efforts will be missed.

It seems reasonable to wonder about others of these 200,000 who possibly haven't done that much of the work of being the Democratic party, and wouldn't have anyway had we not stoked these fires about "cuts" that are not defined in any way yet, except as something to do with P - A - Y - M - E - N - T - S . PACs are easy enough to form and $hit Stirring money seems to abound. It is puzzling to me that so many people are so eager to accept what appears to be so many unknowns, here and elsewhere, especially when, in the case of payments, a significant portion of this PAC could well be either un-informed or defending the FAT in CMS systems that has little or nothing to do with direct care and, in some cases, even intentionally impedes it for agenda that don't have that much to do with the quality of life of Medicare/Medicaid recipients.

More briefly put, don't we all need to see some credentials here?

[No Elephants]

142. Ah, yes. Everyone who doesn't want the signature Democratic programs

of Medicare and OASDI cut must be Republican.

[Name removed]

204. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

225. Holy overreaction, Batman!

I made a one line sarcastic post and you reply with a diatribe of babies dying and accounting for wars off budget and insults and imperious demands? And then you use words like irrational and insane with respect to MY post? Good Lord, get a grip.
.
If you don't know how sarcasm works, maybe there's a wiki on it.


As far as your accusations of dishonesty falseness, irrationalityg and the like, right back atcha..

As best as I understand it, your position is that my using the word "must" in my reply to you was false and dishonest because you had not used the word "must" in your post. Candidly, I find that quite the bizarre and self-important notion.

In what universe does your post limit the words I may "honestly" use in my reply to you, sarcastic or not?

My very brief reply contained no quotation marks nor any statment or other indication that I was purporting to quote you. Also nowhere in my reply was any statement about what your post said, or any pretense that I was repeating what you said.

Given that, your claims of dishonesty and falseness you demands to show you anything from your post are quite misplaced, to put it more politely than I probably should.

Finally, please don't pretend to know what I assume or what I am against or what I would do or say if your imaginary scenarios were real.

[patrice]

210. Look at this thread; that logical flaw, "a MUST mean x and ONLY x"

appears to be more characteristic of your side than it is of mine. Is it possible that's why you can't understand it when someone says something different?

[Faryn Balyncd]

112. and a "binding commission" appears to be the weapon of choice to destroy SS and MC, while providing

....political cover:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1500818

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1498662

[patrice]

115. Why are we pretending that "voting for Obama" is not completely un-verifiable? nt

[JEB]

117. Once more, with feeling.

Stop the friggin wars and runaway military spending, tax the top of the food chain who have made such massive gains over the rest of us and leave SS and Medicare alone.

[cstanleytech]

126. Does this smack anyone here at all kind of like what the teaparty is doing to the republicans?

You know, the whole "you will do as well tell you and not support x in x bill or we are going to support some other candidate"? I mean really, do we really want to be like them?
Just think about it is all I am saying.

[Downwinder]

143. Medicare and Social Security are life and death issues for me.

I'll wait and see what comes about. If they get cut, I might just stick you with Palin or Bachman and SIE out.

[cstanleytech]

201. As they are for my mother and that concerns me as she has

COPD and is on oxygen and just got out of the hospital as her oxygen went to low again but I am willing to have patience until some concrete details on what is on the table as far as changes to the program go is announced.
After all it doesnt do any good to denounce someone for something they have yet to do.

[Downwinder]

209. How do we organize a march on Washington?

With canes, walkers, wheelchairs, and hospital beds and maybe a few pitch forks.

[eilen]

182. you cannot deny their tactics are effective nt

[Kermitt Gribble]

191. Supporting 2 of the greatest accomplishments

in the history of the Democratic Party is comparable to the teabagger's agenda?

Wow, I've heard it all now...

:eyes:

[cstanleytech]

202. No, acting like they do with the whole "do what we tell you or else" is.

[No Elephants]

228. Also not what they said.

They said, if you do X, we will not do Y.

If they do intend to withhold donations and volunteerism, he may as well know it before he cuts. It may be a factor he weighs in his decision, or not. That's up to him. But, if that is their intention, there's little point keeping a secret.

[No Elephants]

227. Did you read the OP? They never said a word about another candidate.

To the contrary, they specified they were going to vote for Obama, but would not volunteer or donate if he cut Medicare and Social Security.

Now, will they in fact vote for Obama? We'll never know.

[Hubert Flottz]

144. K&R

[grahamhgreen]

145. Please listen to us. Our ideas are real solutions.

[somone]

146. Recommended. Democracy in action.

[Bluesbreaker]

147. Highly biased writing by the reporter

The reporter implies that (1) only the fringe left are concerned about social security, Medicaid and Medicare and other programs for the middle class and (2) cutting these programs will appeal to "independent" voters. What a crock.

[Skittles]

148. LOL

apparently, Obama feels the same way

[No Elephants]

229. Yes, I noted that as well. "Certain" to appeal to indies, no less.

AP is Rove's PR company.

[guruoo]

149. 7-15-11: Obama campaign sets all-time fundraising record, 65% donations of $200 or less

Two-thirds of Obama campaign cash from small donors

By Eric Johnson and Kim Dixon

CHICAGO/WASHINGTON, July 15 | Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:28pm EDT

CHICAGO/WASHINGTON, July 15 (Reuters) - Nearly two-thirds of the $86 million raised by President Barack Obama for his re-election effort in recent months came from small donations of under $200 or less, according to filings released on Friday.

Obama released top-line data on his campaign from April to June earlier this week which showed him breaking a prior fundraising record by former president George W. Bush. Obama's campaign raised $47 million on its own and another $39 million was generated by the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

The data underscored the campaign's promise of targeting small-dollar donations instead of powerful political action committees, as the Democratic incumbent seeks re-election in 2012.

More than 65 percent of the funds raised by the Democratic incumbent's campaign, Obama for America, were from donations of $200 or less, according to Federal Election Commission (FEC) filings.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/15/usa-campaign-obama-cash-idUSN1E76E1UG20110715

[JTFrog]

151. +1,000,000,000

[guruoo]

152. Wonder if

PCCC has a plan B?

[eilen]

184. Over half of all money collected in Q2 came from bundlers

"In fact, Obama for America only cited less than half of their total contributions – $21.4 million – as “unitemized,” meaning they were smaller than $200 donations that don’t need to be teamed with identification. You can pretty safely bet that almost no DNC Victory Fund donations were under $200. That would mean that 3/4 of all money collected by Obama for America and the DNC Victory Fund were through donations over $200. That syncs with the bundler data."

"What we also don’t know is if a maxed-out donor who comes to an Obama/DNC victory event counts under the bundler who may have “hosted” that event. This will all come out as people dig through the FEC reports. But just what’s out already tells you a lot. You cannot possibly take in between $35-$50 million, if not much more, from bundlers and maxed-out donors, and claim to have a grassroots campaign"

"It’s possible – in fact, given the numbers, it’s likely – that a portion of the under-$250 contributions were collected by bundlers. I think we can say with confidence that bundlers aren’t going to “ordinary Americans” for those collections. They are rich elites who go to their rich elite friends."


http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/07/16/obama-for-america-data-shows-over-half-of-all-money-collected-in-q2-came-from-bundlers/
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59136.html

[guruoo]

197. 62% under $200, per FEC. The rest is opinion, speculation.

I like to speculate too. I will speculate that the PCCC's claim of 200k legit
signatures to their web petition is, (to be very kind) dubious.

[No Elephants]

230. Well, they'll be delivered, so, if the Obama camp is dubious as well, they can count.

[guruoo]

240. WH can count names, but won't be putting this 'push poll' petition through the kind of scrunity

that would be required if this were a ballot issue.
Let's just say that I have my doubts as to whether it would even come close to passing such a test.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll

[tomp]

156. again, two quotes:

"If voting made a difference it would be illegal." --Phillip Berrigan

"The corporate coup is complete." --Chris Hedges.

Obama will get the money. Whoever TPTB want will be president. No matter who the president is, the will of TPTB will be done.

[inna]

158. exactly. very fitting and succinct quotes, btw.

[patrice]

212. All true. So how do we get from here to there without killing MORE people than are going to

suffer and die unnecessarily in the status-quo processes.

If our point is that people should be valued, why is that okay if what we do results in more deaths than the Dems & Reps precipitate?
Republicans will be the biggest killers. Democrats will be the next biggest killers. And the problem with what Chris Hedges and all of them are alluding to is that THEY CAN'T DELIVER any time soon. All they are capable of doing is spoiling, so it's possible that they will play Dem flaws against Republican flaws and the end result could be that you all are the biggest killers of all. Whatever it is that you are proposing (compared to whatever it is that Obama does, which btw we don't have any real idea about at present - though LOTS and LOTS of people are trying to pretend that we do) . . . whatever it is that you are proposing, YOU HAVE NO MECHANISM TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. You cannot just walk in there and get your way and presto chango all is perfect. Please give me a scenario in which that CAN happen, i.e. your policies adopted in full, what is a reasonable scenario for that objective. I honestly want to know what that scenario looks like. Whatever Hedges, whom I deeply admire, btw, and all are saying, HOW DOES IT WORK. HOW DO YOU MAKE IT HAPPEN?

I can't see it. I think it is most likely that you can do nothing but spoil and that will make you the biggest killers of all.

[judesedit]

161. Instead of flooding Obama and Congresspeople with letters showing support for Medicare, SS, Medicaid

these people go out in the streets to appeal to whom? A bunch of people driving by in their cars, who are eating, texting, talking on phones, shaving, putting on make-up, smoking, drinking, and God knows what, to get home to sit on the couch and turn on the boob-tube to listen to a bunch of bs. Which is more effective? You tell me. Start teaching your children now what is right for the whole of civilization and the planet. Don't wait until they're already warped by our media.

By the way, there is a lot of abuse in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid that MUST be dealt with. Many are stealing from your government that don't need and don't deserve it. Many "mistakes" are made that never get corrected. I know first hand. Many tests are repeatedly performed by each physician you are referred to, instead of using the original results already obtained by the first physician. Wake up. You are fighting against your own best interests.

[No Elephants]

232. If you are having that problem, you can do some things about it.

You can ask for a copy of your test results.

You can ask why your earlier test results are not usuable on this go round. You may learn there's a reason. If not, you've spared yourself an unnecessary test.

You can report duplication to whatever program you are in, on the condition of anonymity.

When it comes to massive fraud via phony bills, funny bookkeeping and the like, the patient will never know and Medicare or Medicaid have to be awake.

However, when it comes to the kind of thing you are talking about, the patient is the first line of defense. Besides, your body doesn't want a lot of scans, blood tests and the like.

The fewer times you get stuck with a needle, the less risk of infection and the like. The less you are exposed to radiation the better. And who needs extra appointments to keep or extra stops at the clinic.

[gateley]

162. "POTENTIAL cuts" -- sounds like DU. :-) Obama needs to make

a DEFINITIVE statement. It's really not fair to let people worry like this. x(

[Jefferson23]

163. What kills me about this is Obama never had to say one fucking word even suggesting such a thing.

But he does regardless, a horrendously bad idea.

[Faygo Kid]

164. I signed it.

I contributed more than $500 to him in 2008. I of course will vote for him in 2012, but my money now goes to my daughter's health care (another story). He lost me the moment he appointed Alan Simpson to the Catfood Commission; that in my opinion was unforgivable, and a clear indicator of his willingness to throw Social Security and Medicare overboard.

No donations in 2012.

[truth2power]

165. I don't even understand this...they won't campaign or volunteer, bu

they'll still vote for him? And that's supposed to sway him, how?


P.S. I haven't read through this entire thread, yet. So this question may have been addressed.

[No Elephants]

233. It won't. But at least people are sending a message, as are the "primary Obama" folks.

He's so awash in contributions, he doesn't need theirs and he can buy whatever he needs.

Remember, in his first campaign, he bought a jet with the Presidential seal on the outside and his headrest. So, not only a jet, but a custom jet. And he'll raise more this time.

(At the time, I questioned the wisdom of using the seal during a campaign, but maybe the PTB said it was okay.)

He'll get enough volunteers, too. And, if he doesn't, he'll have enough money to hire real people or robots or anything he wants.

The one thing he can't give a fundraiser for are votes, and they say they will vote for him, thus confirming the meme that the Left has nowhere else to go, no matter how far right any Democrat goes.

[harvey007]

168. What a waste of paper!

Come on, PCCC, start thinking more creatively. Petitions are old-school.

And I for one will NOT vote for Mr. Obama if he cuts or reduces Social Security.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

172. This is not the time for Obama to be the nice guy and mediator - lives are at stake

He needs to go after the rich, who are the causers of this mess, and the ones that are always benefited and whose programs are never cut!

[Cool Logic]

174. But when it's lever-pulling time...

Obama knows that they will "come to Papa."

[greenman3610]

177. because we all know there's not a dime's worth of difference

between George Bush and Al Gore

[No Elephants]

234. Actually, we don't know. We have no clue what Gore would have done

if he had been in office during 911. And if fear is the only reason to vote for someone, screw that.

It's the meme that the Left has no choice but to be good little Democratic boys and girls that has left the Party free to go further and further right. And then, to put daylight between themselves and Democrats, Republicans have go further and further right.

It wasn't THAT long between Nixon and Dummay or between LBJ and Obama. Can you imagine what the next 50 years will bring? Not the direction I want for America or future generations.

It's self defeating, too. If people see not much difference in policies, they WILL vote for the Party that taxes less. And they will keep throwing out incumbents, no matter which Party the incumbents belong to.

[texshelters]

185. You're all awesome (almost all)

and I will add kudos and ditto!

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[Stellar]

190. I saw where Keith Olbermann was reading the riot act to Obama...

Then the very next day he was calling Obama brilliant! What's up with that? He changed his mind awfully quick.

I'm still voting for the President, no matter what's going on or what they're saying about him this week. You can't possibly know everything that's going on behind closed doors.

[No Elephants]

235. Different issues were involved and Obama behaved differently.

So, different reactions.

Nothing puzzling about that. Keith is an analyst and a commentator, not a worshipper. What I find puzzling is defending someone, no matter what they do or don't do.

"You can't possibly know everything that's going on behind closed doors."

We should. We have a right. We are picking up the tab for every single thing that goes on in the White House and the Capitol.

If you owned a company, would you tolerate secret meetings about you and your wallet on your property by your employees?

[ermasdaughter]

192. Clinton cut Medicare and it turned out fine....

“I'm a old lefty but I am sicken by the left continuous­ly chomping on its own tail!
Obama just talking about cuts in Medicare and SS have "the left" screaming "BETRAYAL"­.

That is ludicrous. Truly. Clinton cut Medicare to help him get control of the economy and no one from the Left said a damn thing!!!

Morever, OBAMA wanted a clean bill - as per usual! When the Right came back demanding cuts he offered more cuts knowing that the very fact that HE suggested the cuts would be rejected by the Republican­s. It was and he's spent the last 5 days spanking them for it. He's negotiatin­g. t's a negotiatin­g strategy folks - as evidenced by Nancy Pelosi saying she's open to the 4 Trillion in cuts - do you really think she is or has the votes for that? No!!! ITS A NEGOTIATIN­G STRATEGY!!­!”

[robinlynne]

193. I signed that pledge.

[Motor City Lib]

194. Adam Green’s Dishonest Attack And Appeal For Cash

http://www.angryblacklady.com/2011/07/15/adam-greens-dishonest-attack-and-appeal-for-cash/



Adam Green recently sent out a mass email attacking President Obama based on several lies concocted from a press conference on July 11, 2011. These lies were born and reside only in the mind of Adam Green, as well as the rabid Obamahaters who cling to Green’s every word to justify their irrational hatred for our President.

Green’s group, the PCCC (Progressive Change Campaign Committee), is probably the most organized group of people suffering from Obama Derangement Syndrome.

So what was so dishonest about his appeal? How about EVERYTHING!

Whether blatant or subtle lies, exaggerations, misrepresentations or selective omissions of reality, they are lies – pure fucking lies.

Lie Number 1: The lie upon which most of the other lies were derived: Obama “came right out and said” that he’s pushing for benefit cuts in important programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

Adam Green cherry picked Obama’s statements in order to concoct a lie. He plucked one utterance of the word “benefits” from a general statement by Obama in which he discussed the broader issues of how we get the country’s fiscal house in order. Bear in mind — the word “benefits” does not appear anywhere near the words “Social Security,” “Medicare” or “Medicaid” (the big 3), and considering the President had addressed those issues before and after that question in the press conference, it shows that Adam Green doesn’t give a shit about the truth. If he did, he would have looked at everything the President said and not cherry picked one word and then connected it to previous words in order to manufacture a lie.

Adam Green is using scare tactics to raise money from his vulnerable and apparently very gullible followers. I’ve been waiting for him to talk about “death panels”.

The following passage is where Adam Green plucked that word from. Of course, I’m including the context — unlike Mr. Green. The bold type is where he grabs that lone word, “benefits”.


And if you’re a progressive that cares about investments in Head Start and student loan programs and medical research and infrastructure, we’re not going to be able to make progress on those areas if we haven’t gotten our fiscal house in order.

So the argument I’m making to my party is, the values we care about — making sure that everybody in this country has a shot at the American Dream and everybody is out there with the opportunity to succeed if they work hard and live a responsible life, and that government has a role to play in providing some of that opportunity through things like student loans and making sure that our roads and highways and airports are functioning, and making sure that we’re investing in research and development for the high-tech jobs of the future — if you care about those things, then you’ve got to be interested in figuring out how do we pay for that in a responsible way.

And so, yeah, we’re going to have a sales job; this is not pleasant. It is hard to persuade people to do hard stuff that entails trimming benefits and increasing revenues. But the reason we’ve got a problem right now is people keep on avoiding hard things, and I think now is the time for us to go ahead and take it on.

As you can see, in the preceding two paragraphs, the president is talking in general about the difficulty of getting our fiscal house in order so that we can do things that progressives, I say liberals, care about. He was talking very broadly. I can just picture Adam Green wetting himself when President Obama said the word “benefits.” And I can also imagine him jumping on his computer and starting to type that dishonest appeal to his listserv for money, even before the President finished his sentence. He must have missed what came after that benign and very general reference to “trimming benefits”.

And if we analyze that sentence as it was spoken, the president is talking in general about the debt ceiling negotiations, which have included cuts and taxes. He was referencing the process and not talking specifically about any benefits. He did, however, speak very specifically about them elsewhere in the press conference, but Adam wouldn’t want to pull those quotes out, they don’t work quite as well for crafting a completely bogus appeal. What the president specifically said was “It is hard to persuade people to do hard stuff …”. So he’s talking about the difficulty of dealing with these issues. He didn’t refer to any specifics of what might be cut, he’s merely talking about the difficulty of getting politicians to do the hard stuff…” that entails trimming benefits and increasing revenues.” That is exactly what the debt ceiling negotiations have been about for months. Republicans want to cut benefits (and other things) and Democrats want to increase revenue (taxes on the rich). So the President didn’t say anything about cutting benefits to any of “the big 3″, but he was just talking very broadly about the difficulty of getting politicians to do any goddamn thing — a far cry from what Adam Green wanted his “donors” to believe. He was throwing them their red meat – but it’s really tofu painted red and marble-ized.

Now let’s take a look at how Green interpreted that use of the word “benefit”…(emphasis mine, throughout)



BREAKING: Today, in a press conference, President Obama came right out and said it: He’s pushing for benefit cuts in important programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

You and 175,000 others boldly pledged that if Obama actually cuts Medicare/Medicaid benefits, you’ll take your money and volunteering elsewhere in 2012.

Is that what you saw or read from the President? It’s a fucking lie. President Obama didn’t say anything even remotely close to that. Sorry to deliver that news to you so “boldly”, Adam.

That plucking of “benefits” was the basis for most of the other misinformation that followed.

More from the transcript of the press conference, gotta love context. This was the very next question, if only Adam wasn’t cleaning up after his wetting incident or busy typing on his computer, maybe he would have heard how the president actually feels about Social Security…

THE PRESIDENT: With respect to Social Security, Social Security is not the source of our deficit problems. Social Security, if it is part of a package, would be an issue of how do we make sure Social Security extends its life and is strengthened? So the reason to do Social Security is to strengthen Social Security to make sure that those benefits are there for seniors in the out-years. And the reason to include that potentially in this package is if you’re going to take a bunch of tough votes, you might as well do it now, as opposed to trying to muster up the political will to get something done further down in the future.

The president has been very clear that Social Security is not the source of our deficit problems and any changes to it will be to strengthen it. Does Adam not know what the word “strengthen” means or is that the selective omission part of his dishonest appeal. It proves that Adam Green is a grifter, trying to raise money off people who may either genuinely care about liberal policies, but have been led down this road that Adam Green has conned them into traveling or they are libertarians. Many of these people have no desire to be critical of Green’s words, they want to cheer and chant and jump up and down, so it probably doesn’t really matter to those folks if he lies.

Here is the detail and supposed significance, as Adam Green distorts it…

1) “We’re going to have a sales job. This is not pleasant. It is hard to persuade people to do hard stuff that entails trimming benefits and increasing revenues.”

Significance: This is the first time Obama admitted he is pushing “benefit” cuts that would hurt our grandparents, kids, and the disabled — not just “savings” like negotiating lower drug prices.

That is another massive, fucking lie that comes from Adam Green’s ass. There is no basis for it at all. Show me anywhere in that entire press conference where the President “pushed” for any cuts to the big 3. It ain’t there, you lying sack of shit. Of course Green then goes there with “hurt our grandparents, kids and the disabled”. Wow, utterly fucking shameless.

Lie Number 2, Adam Green Conveniently Numbered Them For Me

The President’s second out-of-context, edited words…

2) “I want to be crystal clear — nobody has talked about increasing taxes now. Nobody has talked about increases — increasing taxes next year.”

Significance: Polling shows that by 4 to 1, Americans want taxes increased on the rich. The “millionaires tax” proposed by House progressives would raise $1 trillion — helping to take benefit cuts off the table. By his own admission, Obama is not even asking for this!

President Obama has made it clear for months that he wasn’t going to raise taxes in this fragile recovery and pull money out of the system. He’s carefully trying to keep our economy rolling along, and as anyone who really pays attention knows, businesses and Wall Street freak at the mere mention of the word “tax”. The combination of pulling money out of the economy and making Wall Street freak, would be a bad thing. I felt obligated to educate Adam on that, because he apparently hasn’t been paying attention to anything that doesn’t fit his narrative. One that is coming completely unraveled. Delicious, isn’t it?

It’s kind of amazing how Adam Green then uses that fact that polling shows that “Americans want taxes increased on the rich” as if that is counter to what President Obama wants, simply because he stated that he wasn’t talking about raising taxes in the near term. That is not counter to what the President wants, it is EXACTLY WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS! And he has said it countless times, over and over again. Go watch the Presidents speech from April where he lays it all out, in painstaking detail, how he thinks we should be dealing with our looming deficit problem and budgets. That one is so well known, I’m not even going bore you readers with it, if Adam hasn’t heard the President talk about raising taxes on the rich…well, fill in the blank.

Lie Number 3

3) “The vast majority of Democrats on Capitol Hill would prefer not to have to do anything on entitlements; would prefer, frankly, not to have to do anything on some of these debt and deficit problems.”

Significance: The House Progressive Caucus proposed balancing the budget by taxing the rich, making companies like GE pay taxes, ending the wars, and other popular, progressive proposals. By his own admission, Obama didn’t even try for these — and then he attacks progressive Democrats with false, right-wing talking points.

The President is making another general comment about the culture in Washington of dodging tough votes and the concept that politicians would “prefer” to not do controversial things. No, say it ain’t so. Politicians are never wishy washy and they never kick the can down the road or take the easy path.

But Adam then goes on to tell about the House Progressive Caucus and their really great proposal that all of us liberals can get behind, except it has no chance of passing. It’s a damn shame that Republicans control the house and won’t even let it get out of the rules committee and onto the floor of the house. At which point I want to say, thanks a lot, Adam Green, for helping Republicans get back control of the House in 2010, you selfish punk.

So yes, that is a great proposal, supported by many Democrats who know that they will never get a chance to vote on it, which makes it so much easier. If it came down to actually voting to cut defense spending that might affect jobs in their districts, well then you might get a different response from some of these folks.

So, to the meat of the last lie. He states that the House Progressive Caucus proposed “taxing the rich, making companies like GE pay taxes, ending the wars”, yes, they did. AND SO DID PRESIDENT OBAMA.

Once again, I refer anyone who doesn’t believe it to President Obama’s speech in April where he laid it all out, very eloquently, seriously and honestly. But then Green throws this out “By his own admission, Obama didn’t even try for these”, which I have no idea what the fuck he’s talking about and I don’t think he does either. He continues with “and then he attacks progressive Democrats with false, right-wing talking points” which is an even bigger, what the fuck are you talking about? There’s no reference, no citation, just a broad statement that has no basis in reality.

Bonus Lie, The Hits Just Keep Coming – And it is the worst of the worst

The President’s words, edited and plucked from a much larger context.

3) ”With respect to Social Security, Social Security is not the source of our deficit problems….the reason to include that potentially in this package is if you’re going to take a bunch of tough votes, you might as well do it now, as opposed to trying to muster up the political will to get something done further down in the future.”

Significance: Seriously??? Why is a Democratic president going out of his way to help Republicans cut Social Security??? That’s just wrong.

You fucking lying douchenozzle (Twitter has benefits). That is the farthest thing from the truth, of all the bullshit lies you put in this email. You are the lowest form of pond scum. That one statement alone should land you at the bottom of the stinking, rotting pile of waste that the Professional Left has become. It is so blatantly wrong and an obvious attempt to inflame your readers, that you sealed your fate.

He did build up to that last lie slowly, building on one lie and then another to end up with that whopper that should ring in the ears of any cable executive who is considering having you on their network to spew your lies. I’ll refer you back to the top of this post where President Obama talked about strengthening Social Security. Or watch Obama’s speech from April; he’s been very consistent for months on Social Security, and has never said anything about cutting benefits.

The big question we are left with as it relates to Adam Green and his PCCC is — if you are a progressive as you say, then why would you have to resort to lying, distorting and manufacturing in order to pitch to your “supporters”.

You are a grifter, pure and simple. Here is the definition…

–noun Slang .

1 – a person who operates a side show at a circus, fair, etc., especially a gambling attraction.

2 – a swindler, dishonest gambler, or the like.

You can join with Jane Hamsher in her irrelevancy and skip down the road together into oblivion. But it didn’t really have to be that way for either of you.

If you want to read even more analysis of Adam Green’s stupidity, Joy at The Reid Report breaks it down even further with extended passages that counter Adam’s bullshit. With Jane Hamsher’s completely batshit post yesterday, which Deaniac83 covers at The People’s View, I think we are watching the “death rattle” of the Professional Left.


I would call Adam Green a lying bastard but that title works too.

[Myshadow]

195. OK, It's square one again

he shitcanned Elizabeth Warren last night in a document drop, friday night.

Get a clue, he is walking a republican tightrope, and placating them slowly while he is skid marking his base.

[ermasdaughter]

196. Elizabeth Warren DIDN"T WANT THE JOB!!!

He didn't can her....

[No Elephants]

236. That seems to be a DU meme not one DUer can back up.

Check the thread titled Obama Eliminates Warren or something of the sort.

Someone claimed Barney Frank said so, but a poster produced links showing Frank saying several conflicting things on the subject. I think that was Reply 43 on that thread. And Reply 80 gives a convincing reason for why she "left" when she did.

Ponder this. She was an interim appointment, supposed to stay until the permanent head took over/ So, why has she already left office? The permanent head has not even been nominated, let alone confirmed.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yurbud]

198. how many recs would a thread calling for compromise at any cost get?

I'm proud to see this response from DUers and it should remind those who run the board that we are an overwhelmingly PROFRESSIVE community.

[MissDeeds]

199. I am a progressive

and am damn proud of it.

[No Elephants]

238. For my take on progressive v. liberal, please see Reply 239.

[yurbud]

216. I hate when I notice I mispelled a word I all capped too late to fix it...

[No Elephants]

237. Count me out of the progressive label, please. I am a liberal

I have no clue what "progressive" means. And I'm not sure anyone does. But I do know a couple of things.

Marshall, a founding member of the DLC signed the 2003 PNAC memo, then went on to found the Progressive Policy Institute. If he's progressive, I'm not.

Hillary, another DLC founded member, used the term over and over in her campaign. And she was for mandates in Hillarycare before mandates were cool and had prayer breakfasts with the C Street crowd. If she's progressive, I'm not.

And that's all I know about that term. So, I am hesitant to say I am a progressive.

OTOH, I think I have a fairly good idea what liberal means.

[MissDeeds]

200. I have a problem with this part:

"It's not a question of who they're going to support for president, they're going to vote for Obama." Then where it the threat? Not raising money or sending checks, not manning phone banks, not going door to door? Many progressives will not vote for this president given his agenda and tepid record on supporting progressive issues. That's the bottom line. Some here will say he doesn't need progressive votes, but watch what happens in October 2012 when they do a full court press for progressive votes.

[Politicub]

203. Is anyone else sick of these idiotic pledges?

The GOP has their marriage and slavery pledge in Iowa, and now this "liberal group" has their petulant child pledge.

People who can honestly withold support and sit out an election must have nothing to lose should executive power go to the GOP in 2012. While I disagree vehemently with cutting entitlements, our chances of winning the concessions back are more favorable with a Democratic majority.

[patrice]

207. Witholding support and sitting it out are like expecting to win the lottery (for your issue) without

buying a ticket.

It's kind of revealing to me that anyone would think using something that is completely un-verifiable (voting for Obama) as leverage is a good idea. Does Obama look that dumb? . . . But then, that un-verifiability could be the point since Republicans want those PAYMENTS left alone.

[No Elephants]

239. Hardly fair to mention them in the same breath.

One is for candidates pledging to bigotry and the other is by voters saying what they want their elected representative to do.

Petitioning an elected representative is one Constitutional right. Telling your representative what you want is a free speech right.

As far as winning concessions back, I think that is not realistic. Clinton did it. NO one reversed his cuts. No one is going to reverse Obama's either, certainly not Obama. We'll be lucky if he reverses the Obama tax cuts.

[Politicub]

241. Sit it out then. No one is going to twist your arm.

I don't know how it would be possible to sit on the sidelines with such an important election, but to each his own. I know I wouldn't be able to do that. But then again, I have a lot at stake in 2012. Perhaps you do not.

And you're half right about what the pledges mean on both sides -- both are aimed at what people are saying they want their reps to do. It's just that one side is evil to the core, and the other -- well, I guess it's pursuing perfection at the expense of everything else.

[patrice]

205. Interesting thread. Please, if you have time, review my post #204 above.

Thank you very much.

[NoodleyAppendage]

208. Good. Now I know to what group I should donate my political funds.

It's high time that we rid ourselves of the DINO in Chief.

J

[patrice]

213. Right, "Cthulu" is a reliable source for your thoughts, all. nt

[DeSwiss]

215. K&R

''...you can stand back and look at this planet and see that we have the money, the power, the medical understanding, the scientific know-how, the love and the community to produce a kind of human paradise.

But we are led by the least among us - the least intelligent, the least noble, the least visionary. We are led by the least among us and we do not fight back against the dehumanizing values that are handed down as control icons.''

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYB0VW5x8fI">~Terrence McKenna

[ProgressIn2008]

220. This should have been done from day-goddamn-one. nt

[UrbScotty]

249. Not that they ever cared about Democrats. Most of their $$ goes to 'administrative' and media costs.

Source: http://theobamadiary.com/2011/07/15/here-we-go-again-2/