Brazil to build nuclear submarines which will dramatically alter balance of power in South America

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Daily Mail

Brazil to build nuclear submarines which will dramatically alter balance of power in South America
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 11:14 AM on 18th July 2011

The Brazilian government has started work on a submarine programme which will include the construction of South America's first nuclear subs.

The move will boost Brazil's claim to be the strongest force in the region, and strengthen the country's military assertiveness.

This new-found power may harm Britain in the event of another flare-up over the Falklands, according to U.S. news agency Global Post, as Brazil thinks the islands should belong to Argentina.

~snip~
By the time the programme is complete, Brazil will have four extra conventional submarines as well as a nuclear-powered model. It would be only the seventh country in the world to build a nuclear sub.

Read more: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-2015731/Brazil-build-nuclear-submarines-dramatically-alter-balance-power-South-America.html

[naaman fletcher]

1. "as Brazil thinks the islands should belong to Argentina."

As a believer in democracy and self-determination, I say let the people who live their decide.

[Phoonzang]

9. Considering that they're British have been since 1841, I think we know

which way they'll decide. :)

[Judi Lynn]

2. Brazil begins building 4 diesel-powered submarines, looks ahead to having nuclear vessel

Brazil begins building 4 diesel-powered submarines, looks ahead to having nuclear vessel
By Associated Press, Published: July 16

RIO DE JANEIRO — Brazil has begun building four diesel-powered submarines as part of a 2008 agreement with France that includes the future construction of Latin America’s first nuclear submarine.

President Dilma Rousseff attended Saturday’s ceremony marking the startup of operations at the shipyard where the four Scorpene attack submarines will be built.

~snip~
The Brazilian navy says the four vessels represent a first step in moving Brazil toward construction of its first nuclear-propelled submarine.

Officials have said the submarines will be used to protect Brazil’s large offshore oil reserves and exploration platforms.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/americas/brazil-begins-building-4-diesel-powered-submarines-looks-ahead-to-having-nuclear-vessel/2011/07/16/gIQAhihUII_story.html

[rabs]

3. That Daily Mail headline and story is bs

the anonymous reporter of that yellow journalism rag threw in the Malvinas/Falklands angle playing to British readers.

Dilma stressed today that Brazil's objective is to moderninze the navy, protect the 8,000 kilometers of Brazilian coastline and for the security of the Pre-Salt that is expected to make Brazil one of the world's top oil producers in the next half century.

Dilma said the subs were for defensive purposes only, never for attack.

The first conventional sub will go into service in 2017, after sea trials in 2016. The other three conventional subs will be finished in intervals of one and a half years.

SN-BR, the nuclear sub, is scheduled to be delivered to the Brazilian navy in 2023.
O SN-BR só fará parte da frota brasileira em 2023.

Story from Journal do Brasil today if there are readers of Portuguese out there.

http://www.jb.com.br/pais/noticias/2011/07/18/dilma-construcao-de-submarinos-e-questao-estrategica-para-a-soberania/

[Judi Lynn]

4. That hit me as odd after I posted it. I had focused on the submarine itself,

didn't pay much attention to the rest until after it was up, and it seemed entirely odd for the reporter to have immediately leaped in to spin it that way.

It would be so unlikely a country like Brazil would even in passing imagine building a submarine to assist a neighbor in fighting off the British over that. Simply disgusting, and pathetic, isn't it? One would have to be a little feeble to spend time wallowing in that off-road area.

I recall the way Lula was talking before the end of his term he was very concerned about Brazil's security concerning oil, mentioning it multiple times. This is nothing new, by any means.

From the article you posted, a google translation:

~snip~
Dilma recalled that the agreement signed with France in 2008, provides for the transfer of technology to the domestic industry is able to continue building and developing submarine in Brazil.

The next step, according to the president, will manufacture a nuclear-powered submarine.

In addition to strategic issues and defense, Dilma assesses the national construction of submarines will play a considerable economic. The government plans to create 9,000 direct jobs and 27,000 indirect jobs in the construction of the shipyard and naval base for the equipment.

"And during the construction phase of the submarine, the forecast is to create around 2,000 direct jobs and 8,000 indirect permanent jobs. Each submarine to be manufactured in Brazil will have more than 36 000 items produced by 30 Brazilian companies, "added the president./blockquote]Very, very interesting. Why wouldn't the Mail reporter have found this worth mentioning?

Thanks for setting this story on a straighter path, rabs. :thumbsup:

[hack89]

5. This is a huge mistake

1. Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology is much cheaper and quieter, yet still lets you operate for weeks without surfacing.

2. Nuke subs are noisy and easier to detect then diesel boats.

3. The operating costs are astronomical.


This may make sense politically but not militarily or economically.

[Cool Logic]

40. That depends on who is building them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_class_submarine

[hunter]

58. An example of AIP for the curious...

Gotland class submarine

"HMS Gotland managed to snap several pictures of the USS Ronald Reagan during a wargaming exercise in the Pacific Ocean, effectively "sinking" the aircraft carrier. The exercise was conducted to evaluate the effectiveness of the US Fleet against diesel-electric submarines, which some have noted as severely lacking."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland_class_submarine

[WatsonT]

6. Why?

The only purpose would be to fight the UK for the falklands and I'm guessing building those things will cost more than the islands are worth.

[melm00se]

7. submarines in defensive roles

have generally been failures.

if you park a submarine near an asset you are trying to protect, you dramatically shrink the area that ASW forces have to search to prosecute a submarine contact.

a confined submarine is a dead submarine.

[FLPanhandle]

8. Doesn't Brazil have better & more pressing use for that money?

Are they ruled by Republicans too?

[Phoonzang]

10. Nope. Democratic Socialists.

Or Social Democrats. Whatev.

[txlibdem]

11. Three words: Goodbye US Empire

This is the first step in South America freeing itself from the vampiric grasp of US Imperialists and the CIA death squads/CIA backed "freedom fighters."

It's funny how CIA backed freedom fighters were always sent in to bring down democratically elected governments in South- and Central-America, ones that made the fatal mistake of favoring the nationalization of their natural resources or in some other way going against the interests of US or European corporations.

I guess you only have to be invaded and your people brutally tortured, murdered by slitting their throats and having their tongues pulled out through the resultant hole, etc., so many times before you start thinking you need to protect yourself *against* the US Empire. Then there were the "convenient" assassinations of labor leaders, clergy, political opponents and anyone who got too outspoken about the rights of the poor and / or indigenous peoples. Maybe that might have something to do with their decision to build advanced weapons systems.

But what do I know.

[hack89]

12. Are you kidding?

one or two or even 10 nuclear subs will not shift the balance of power - militarily, politically or economically. Brazil will soon discover what a waste of resources this is.

[txlibdem]

13. Your point is that the "mighty USA" can never be successfully opposed???

May I remind you:

Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Pakistan
Osama Bin Laden
Syria

Etc., etc., etc.

[hack89]

16. The point is that nuclear submarines are not the best tool to oppose the US

Your post makes my point for me - none of your examples are countries that took on the US in high-tech, high-intensity conventional warfare. The US has over 50 nuclear fast attack subs - a handful in SA will not make much of a difference.

Nukes are easy to track and kill. If they only have a handful you simply time your attack for when they are in port. It is very difficult to get proficient in their use - they have no modern navy to practice against.

[Judi Lynn]

18. As was mentioned years ago by Lula, they plan to use them to protect their oil. n/t

[txlibdem]

21. Smart move don't ya think?

Especially since the US is now involved in 4 (or is it 5) oil wars right now... ;-)

[Judi Lynn]

29. Absolutely! The time demands it, doesn't it? It also is a complete declaration to other countries

Brazil means to guard its country's resources for the good of its PEOPLE, not its elite, which could serve as a rallying cry, one would think, to other countries to make the committment to their own people as well, as it SHOULD have been from the first.

[txlibdem]

35. +1

[hack89]

24. There are better and cheaper ways

even when it comes to submarines. The only advantage a nuke holds over a conventional sub is that it can travel long distances at high speed. If you are protecting oil rigs in your own waters, nukes gain you nothing.

And what exactly are you protecting your oil from? Brazil has to sell on the global market in order to profit from their oil - US companies can get all the Brazilian oil they want.

[txlibdem]

28. Two words: Peak Oil

The US isn't playing nice in its frantic grasping for any and all oil resources it can get right now. What do you think the idiots in D.C. are going to start planning when the peak oil sh*t actually hits the fan.

* note that peak oil has already happened IMO and all the denials and oil wars signal to me that our government knows it. What I'm addressing above is when the news becomes public worldwide and everyone starts getting themselves into a tizzy.

[hack89]

30. Still doesn't justify nukes. nt

[txlibdem]

36. Common misconception: nuclear powered does NOT mean it carries nuclear missiles

It just means that the propellers are turned by an electric motor that gets its power from a steam generator hooked up to, you guessed it, a nuclear reactor.

The US nuclear submarines are virtually undetectable and can stay out to sea for 6 months before needing to resupply at port. I don't know if the Brazilian nuclear sub will be better or worse than ours (since ours were designed in the 1970s and theirs is brand new with 21st century knowhow).

As for the missile compliment on board, it could be nuclear weapons, chemical, biological, incendiary, explosives, or a precision guided kinetic weapon. Any one of which would send shivers down the spine of any foolishly invading US forces.

[hack89]

39. Let examine your misconceptions

1. Nuclear subs are the easiest subs to detect - nuclear reactors require large and noisy cooling pumps constantly operating.

2. Submarines with AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) technology can stay down for weeks on end and are much more quieter than nukes. They are also smaller and more maneuverable.

3. The subs they are talking about are not missile shooters. The will be fast attack boats with torpedoes as their main weapons. Any missiles will be short range anti-ship missiles - and there won't be many of them so I doubt the US will be shivering.


An AIP sub costs a fraction of a nuke for nearly identical performance. From a military perspective, what is a better deterrence? One or two nukes or 5 or 6 modern AIP subs? If nothing else, you don't have all your eggs in one basket.


BTW - the US is replacing all their 1970's subs with modern ones. The French, on the other hand, are not known for their nuclear subs.

[Angleae]

55. That's not the only advantage a nuke sub has.

They can stay submerged virtually indefinately while a diesel has to surface every so ofter to recharge it's batteries.

[hack89]

56. Not AIP submarines

they use fuel cells to charge their batteries - they can stay down for weeks at a time. And they are much quieter and cheaper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-independent_propulsion

What would be a better deterrence - one or two nukes or 6-10 modern AIP diesel boats? A some point quantity has its own quality. It certainly would be good to not have all your eggs in one (or two baskets) - the fewer subs the more tempting a preemptive strike becomes. And finally, they can get the AIP subs operational much quicker.

[FLPanhandle]

14. "vampiric grasp of US Imperialist and CIA death squads"

Your post may not make much sense, but it was worth reading just for that line.

[txlibdem]

20. Some context was definitely missing

Google CIA atrocities if you would like more background.

[FLPanhandle]

22. Oh I know my history

It's sort of passion and hobby of mine. I don't agree with your post, but I do love someone who has a way with words.

[txlibdem]

37. You may not know the history that I know, but for now I'll just bask in the compliment :-)

:-)

[Judi Lynn]

27. Here's a jiffy grab regarding US support of their murderous right-wing coup in 1964:

Brazil 1964Main article: 1964 Brazilian coup d'état
See also: CIA activities in Brazil

A democratically-elected government headed by President João Goulart was successfully overthrown by a CIA-supported coup in March 1964. On March 30, the American military attaché in Brazil, Colonel Vernon A. Walters, telegraphed the State Department. In that telegraph, he confirmed that Brazilian army generals, independently of the US, had committed themselves to acting against Goulart within a week of the meeting, but no date was set.<32>

Declassified transcripts of communications between Lincoln Gordon and the U.S. government show that, predicting an all-out civil war, President Johnson authorized logistical materials to be in place to support the coup-side of the rebellion as part of U.S. Operation Brother Sam.<33>

In the telegraphs, Gordon also acknowledges U.S. involvement in "covert support for pro-democracy street rallies...and encouragement democratic and anti-communist sentiment in Congress, armed forces, friendly labor and student groups, church, and business" and that he "may be requesting modest supplementary funds for other covert action programs in the near future."<34>

In 2001, Gordon published a book,Brazil's Second Chance: En Route Toward the First World, on Brazilian history since the military coup. In it, he denied a role in the coup. However, James N. Green, an American historian of Brazil, argued: " changed Brazil's history, for he....made it clear that, if the coup was advanced, the United States was going to recognize it immediately, which was fundamental ."<35>

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions#Brazil_1964

We know there is a TON of material available on this bloody, dirty coup, including the book of testimony from political prisoners who survived their torture, etc., compiled by the clergy, named Nunca Mais (Never Again) which was widely read, AFTER the military coup ended.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-teWaK7A1amY/TfkEanfMh2I/AAAAAAAATiM/6OOGr571v_c/s1600/brasil+nunca+mais.jpg
Brazil's new President Dilma Rousseff, as you know, was herself a political prisoner, one who was subjected to an intense torture well over one hundred times, "The Parrot's Perch," (or Pau de "Pau de arara)

http://groundsforappeal.ihookitup.com.nyud.net:8090/files/2010/11/pau.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com.nyud.net:8090/3641/3362067513_e6ccb16911.jpg

Torture technique

Pau de arara can also refer to a physical torture technique designed to cause severe joint and muscle pain, as well as headaches, and psychological trauma. The technique consists of a tube, bar, or pole placed over the victim's biceps and behind the knees while tying the victim's both ankles and wrists together. The entire assembly is suspended between two metal platforms forming what looks like a parrot's perch.

This technique is believed to originate from Portuguese slave traders, which used Pau de arara as a form of punishment for disobedient slaves. Its usage has been more recently widespread by the agents of the political police of the Brazilian military dictatorship against political dissidents in the 1960s and 1970s and it still believed to be in use by Brazilian police forces<1>, although outlawed<1>. The device was often used as a restraint for a combination of other torture techniques, such as water boarding, nail pulling, branding, electric shocks, and sexual torture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pau_de_Arara

And of course we know that the brother of the last President, the beloved Luis Inacio Lula da Silva was ALSO imprisoned for his leftist political beliefs.

They've had a good long time to absorb the lessons of their experience, haven't they? They would be damned if they EVER allowed this to happen to their country again!

[lunasun]

60. US/cIA etc been trying to set up camp for ages in SA- glad to see they are

getting stronger there. I see no threat to US or Uk from this

just trying to keep their own the way they want it

not how other countries want to play them for profit and power games

China should be very scared of US also and I can see why they are building up too


Hey - we spend a lot of $$$ protecting ourselves from perceived terrorist / others can do the same for their homelands

and it is within Brazil borders not agression as spun in story

[DeSwiss]

15. WTF? With all the poverty and problems Brazil has..... {heavy sigh} :-/ n/t

[txlibdem]

23. Hmmm. Maybe googling the history in that region may answer the poverty question???

eom

[DeSwiss]

50. I know the history. I'm asking about the REALITY. n/t

[txlibdem]

53. 1962, 1964 to 1985 -- you know the history of Brazil

Don't even think to look up the 1800s.

When you're done with all that, let's talk about the causes of poverty in Central- and South-America.

[DeSwiss]

54. Why stop at the 1800's?

Why not go back to the 1400's? The 1500's?

You're missing my point, but never mind.

Such is the nature of DU......

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

46. Let's look at both of our countries.

In one of them, poverty is going up. In the other, it's going down. Guess which?

[DeSwiss]

51. I KNOW we're stupid. I thought they were smarter. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

17. Article from 2008 indicates former President Lula's plans to start using submarines:

Lula Says: “Brazil will get the nuclear submarine in the near future” and Sarkozy Wants to Help
Agência Brasil - Folha Online - NPSGlobal, 12, 18, and 22 Dec 2008.

~snip~
Last 11 December, during the Sailor’s Day ceremony, President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva said that Brazil will get its nuclear submarine in the near future.

"Agreements to build the first Brazilian submarine with nuclear propulsion are becoming more concrete every day. In a few years, Brazil will be a part of the nations’ select group which possess this factor”, stated the President.

In the message, Lula also pointed out that one of the top priorities of the Navy’s Re-equipment Program is to acquire patrol ships which will operate around the off-shore oil platforms.

More:
http://npsglobal.org/eng/news/25-international-security/348-lula-says-brazil-will-get-the-nuclear-submarine-in-the-near-future-and-sarkozy-wants-to-help.html

[Judi Lynn]

19. More Brazil news from today: Brazil unemployment rate drops to 6.2 percent in June

Brazil unemployment rate drops to 6.2 percent in June
By Associated Press, Updated: Tuesday, July 19, 12:48 PM

BRASILIA, Brazil — Brazil says the unemployment rate in Latin America’s largest economy dipped slightly to 6.2 percent in June, down from 6.4 percent one month earlier.

The government statistics agency known as IBGE says it’s the lowest June jobless rate since 2002 and the lowest overall since January. Unemployment in the same month last year was 7 percent.

The bureau’s new figures say 1.5 million people were unemployed in June, which was stable compared to the previous month.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/brazil-unemployment-rate-drops-to-62-percent-in-june/2011/07/19/gIQAx6m5NI_story.html

[txlibdem]

26. 6.2%??? What is Brazil's policy on accepting refugees?

:woohoo:

[Judi Lynn]

31. Amazing, isn't it? Lula's the "dude" that "dood it." Funny how our corporate media

have cast him as the "good leftist" to try to pit him against the "bad leftists" their masters tell them to attack.

That completely overlooks the fact that so many countries in the Americas elected Presidents who were prisoners of these filthy governments which were put in place by the U.S. after they helped them overthrow the leftist Presidents who were put into office by the people.

In Uruguay, the current President and his wife were BOTH prisoners of a fascist monster government.

[txlibdem]

33. That goes along with my question: how many times can the US get away with brutal tactics...

...before the people of the region all have a clear memory of exactly what the US is all about.

Here is the truth about Ronald Reagan:

“I won’t even write in the diary what we’re up to.”
– Reagan, in his diary, about the arms for hostages deal

“…the moral equal of our Founding Fathers.”

- Ronald Reagan, describing the Nicaraguan Contras

“Rosa had her breasts cut off. Then they cut into her chest and took out her heart. The men had their arms broken, their testicles cut off. They were killed by slitting their throats and pulling the tongue out through the slit.”
– Soldier describing treatment of prisoners by Nicaraguan Contras

http://trueslant.com/childers/2009/06/07/reagan-overseas-one-part-hero-three-parts-villain/

[Judi Lynn]

44. Thanks so much for this link. Immediately filed it away for personal use. Wow. n/t

[txlibdem]

48. Honestly, I wish I'd never read that info (from another source originally)

"Now you've seen it... you can't unsee it!"

I can't get it out of my mind now. :-( This is what MY country did. And worse, what are they doing now that we don't know about?

[FLPanhandle]

32. With an average yearly income of less than $4,500

There won't be a long line of folks in your way to emigrate there either. Have fun!

[txlibdem]

34. Then the cost of living is lower there - perfect for me

Unless you suppose that everything there costs just as much as it does here... (you'd be wrong).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. Roughly half, although it varies wildly for each kind of product or service.

OK, let me dollarize / imperialize things:

I rent a 3-bedroom apartment here, in a median-like neighborhood. With all taxes and maintenance fees included: around US$ 800. (This is Rio, and rents here are much higher than everywhere else except São Paulo.)

One bus ticket: US$ 1.50.

Weighed meal at a downtown salad bar: around US$ 5 / lb. Up to double that for fancier places.

Groceries: (Taken from two big Rio supermarker chains - NOT WAL-MART!)
Chicken breast: 95¢ / lb
Black beans: 60¢ / lb
16 rolls of toilet paper: $7.80
Mayo: $1 / lb
1.1 lb loaf of bread: $1.60

Gasoline is more expensive: $6 / gal. Cars too. And electronics.

[txlibdem]

49. Thanks for the info!

I'm sorry that you have to live in such a terrible place... I hear the women there are just hideous. J/K

So, so, so jealous!!!

[FLPanhandle]

52. Hey, if you found a place perfect for you, then go for it.

Enjoy and let us know how the move goes.

[hack89]

47. You might want to check their murder and violent crime rates first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[madokie]

25. I have no problem with it.

with us up to the north of them If I was them I'd be trying to acquire the best military I could. The pukes have gone rogue. all it would take right now if a puke was to win the whitehouse in '12 is someone hollering boo and we'd be on them like a chicken on a june bug.

I'd rather not see them with nuclear as I don't like nuclear but if there has to be some nuclear powered anything I'd rather it be by millitary rule as they sure seemed to me when I was in the Navy to go by the book, no corners cut, no books cooked, just the real shit.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. I see nothing about this in Brazilian media. No sources.

They speak about an ongoing project that was announced in 2008 and is... well, ongoing.

If true, so what?

[Judi Lynn]

41. Rabs posted this one earlier from Brazil:

http://www.jb.com.br/pais/noticias/2011/07/18/dilma-construcao-de-submarinos-e-questao-estrategica-para-a-soberania/

Looks as if the western media had to use this event to try to crank out some political crappola for whatever purpose they're serving.

[rabs]

43. Fyi JB Online had stories on Saturday and yesterday (Monday)

16 July

16/07 às 20h01 - Atualizada em 16/07 às 20h03

Dilma vai à cerimônia de início da construção de submarinos no Brasil

A presidente Dilma Roussef participou neste sábado, em Itaguaí, região metropolitana do Rio de Janeiro, da cerimônia que marca o início da construção de quatro submarinos convencionais brasileiros (S-BR), com tecnologia francesa. Os submarinos são da classe Scórpene, e são um dos itens do acordo que o Brasil assinou com a França há 2 anos e meio.

"A produção representa uma posição estratégica do Brasil diante do fortalecimento da sua indústria, da capacitação de nosso País, da nossa capacidade de construir alianças internacionais", disse a presidente.

http://www.jb.com.br/rio/noticias/2011/07/16/dilma-vai-a-cerimonia-de-inicio-da-construcao-de-submarinos-no-brasil/

-----------------------------

18 July

18/07 às 08h17 - Atualizada em 18/07 às 08h20

Dilma: "Construção de submarinos é questão estratégica para a soberania"

Luana Lourenço

A presidente Dilma Rousseff disse nesta segunda-feira que a construção de submarinos nacionais é uma questão estratégica e de garantia de soberania para o país. Na última sexta-feira, Dilma participou da cerimônia que inaugurou a fabricação brasileira de submarinos, com tecnologia francesa.

O Brasil vai construir quatro submarinos. O primeiro deve ficar pronto em 2016. “O Brasil passa a fazer parte do pequeno grupo de países que tem conhecimento e tecnologia para construir submarinos. A capacidade de produzir submarinos é fator estratégico, tanto para a defesa do país quanto para o crescimento econômico”, disse Dilma no programa semanal de rádio, Café com a Presidenta.

http://www.jb.com.br/pais/noticias/2011/07/18/dilma-construcao-de-submarinos-e-questao-estrategica-para-a-soberania/

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. Ah, thanks. -nt

[Judi Lynn]

57. Brazil's new nuclear subs to defend oil wells

Brazil's new nuclear subs to defend oil wells

Work on the country's first nuclear submarines has begun in an effort to defend oil reserves and project global power.
Fabiana Frayssinet Last Modified: 23 Jul 2011 11:52

Plans for a Brazilian nuclear submarine that had been postponed since the 1970s are beginning to materialise, as the nuclear-propelled sub is regarded as a strategic necessity to guard Brazil's deep water oil reserves, and to project global power.

Steel plates piled up in a warehouse at Nuclebrás Equipamentos Pesados (NUCLEP), a mixed capital company in Itaguaí, about 80km from Rio de Janeiro, are labelled "submarine plates".

President Dilma Rousseff made the symbolic "first cut" of a steel plate on July 16 at a ceremony marking the start of operations at the shipyard where the submarine hulls will be built.

"This is a very special moment", she said in her speech launching the Brazilian navy's submarine development programme (ProSub), which will initially produce four conventional S-BR submarines using French technology.

More:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/07/201172213173679528.html

[hack89]

59. And "project global power". What a noble goal. nt

[sofa king]

61. Looks like they're cooking up a Monroe Doctrine of their own.

Hey, that's okay with me. Policing the seas is so expensive that we should welcome Brazil's willingness to step into that role. And when they do, their first strategic dilemma will be the fact that Britain, and all the outside interests it backs, will control the passage around Cape Horn through its ownership of the Falklands.

It occurs to me that the problem can be averted by simply leasing out one of the many, many inlets of the Falklands to the Brazilians, so they can construct a naval base of their own there, or allow the Brazilians to refurbish and use some of the facilities at Stanley. That would allow the people of the islands to retain their cultural allegiance to the British, and put the Brazilians in the position of wanting to keep the status quo. Eventually, a similar offer could be extended to the Argentinians, and their strategic concerns might be lessened as well.

Of course, that might also guarantee a war sooner or later, too. I don't pretend to know all.