Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

How the Obama-Boehner debt talks collapsed

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 02:40 AM
Original message
How the Obama-Boehner debt talks collapsed
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 02:51 AM by TomCADem
Source: LA Times

Boehner and Cantor went back to the White House on Wednesday. Discussions about the additional $400 billion in new revenue were secondary to concerns over tax reform "triggers." Republicans thought they needed a trigger to ensure that Democrats stayed at the table and didn't simply let the Bush tax cuts lapse. The GOP proposal: If tax reform did not occur, the administration would lose key portions of its new healthcare law, including the mandate that all Americans have health insurance.

The White House dismissed this provision as a nonstarter. "We didn't think that it was appropriate that political trophies would be part of the budget discussions," said a senior White House aide.

On Thursday, important differences remained, especially in the amount of added tax revenues and the design of the triggers. Further, Obama sensed that Boehner was losing GOP support — "bleeding members left and right," said the senior aide.

To compensate, Obama hoped to reel in more votes from Democrats. Securing another $400 billion or so in additional revenue would help solidify Democratic support.



Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-boehner-20110723,0,3014755.story



Once again, the Republican leadership cannot control its own caucas with diehard conservatives like Tom Coburn proving to be more reasonable then most Republicans in the House. No one can blame the President for not trying to avoid default. Heck, he probably tried too hard. But, the fact of the matter is that some Republicans in the House want to score a political trophy, and they think that tagging President Obama with the first default in our Nation's history will guarantee that he will lose in 2012. Afterall, the corporate media has covered their ass up until this point, and even celebrated Paul Ryan's much more radical voucher plan as bold and courageous.

Also, what is interesting is that the revival of the Gang of Six plan ended up killing negotiations between Boehner and Obama, because at the time they started negotiating, Coburn had still not rejoined the Gang of Six, so Obama's negotiations with Boehner were the only game in town. But, the Gang of Six allowed President Obama to point to Republicans in the Senate as being more reasonable in trying to address the debt.

My question is how many hissyfits will the American people have to endure from Republicans dramatically walking away and quitting. Should we call it Sarah Palin syndrome?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Rec n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LuvNewcastle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. So they wanted a 'trigger' did they?
Hmmm, where have I heard that term before?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. they may one day regret...
....asking for a trigger. i'm sure there are many who would like to accommodate them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good. Call their bluff. Put nothing but raising the debt ceiling on the table.
Let a clean table work in favor of Democrats for once.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TrollBuster9090 Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. If a clean table is what's needed, maybe they should invite Chris Christie to help mediate
these discussions? (Sorry, somebody had to say it. )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Fat jokes. That's neat. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TxVietVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Obama can raise the debt ceiling unilaterally, I believe.
If not, don't give the conservanazis anything. He caved in many, many times trying to make a deal and you cannot deal with terrorists. I'm sorry, but that's what they are. They do not want to settle on anything other than their proposals. They are trying to hold this country hostage for their demands. I believe Obama and crew have a plan and let them implement it.

Remember this, Obama, you can't deal with terrorists, in case you haven't figured that out yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think that is what he should do also.
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 06:50 AM by sendero
...he should just order is\t raised based on whatever legal justification he can find, just like Bush would have.

He can tell the Republicans and country that he was ready to make a deal, willing to make serious cuts, but the Repugs would not have any deal other than 100% their way. They don't own the presidency, they don't own the senate and they don't get to have anything 100% their way.

I think politically he would come out on top.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TrollBuster9090 Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. If it were me, I'd play it this way:
We know two things:
1. The President, through the Treasury Secretary, DEFINITELY has the power to determine the order in which the country's financial obligations are met when there is a lack of funds.
2. The President PROBABLY has the power to raise the debt ceiling without Congressional approval, but may (eventually) get challenged on it in the Supreme Court.

So here's what he should do. In early August the Treasury will run out of money, and it will be illegal for it to borrow any more. The tax revenues coming in will only cover 60% of the government's expenses. So, in late July Obama signs an Executive Order saying that the Treasury will pay bond holders FIRST to avoid a default on the national debt (which would be an INTERNATIONAL disaster), and that whatever remains of the monthly tax revenues will have to be triaged as follows. Medicare and Social Security will be cut last. The things that will be cut first will be: farm subsidies, gulf state flood insurance, oil subsidies, defense projects, federal construction projects, meat and poultry inspection, customs and ports (ie-no more imports).

My guess is that the Republicans would cave in less than a week under those conditions, and pass a clean bill on raising the debt ceiling. Even Brit Hume admitted on Fox News that this method would work, and that he'd heard it from Republican Senators. (I'm sure he probably got a nasty letter from Roger Ailes for saying so on the air.) Yes, those programs are important to Democrats, too, but that's immaterial. What's important is who will be blamed for stopping them. It will be a repeat of the Gingrich government shutdown on steroids, with the Republicans (rightfully) getting the blame.

The advantage of the executive order stipulating that bond holders will always be paid first is that it would prevent a default, and (more importantly) avoid a credit downgrade and a crash in the stock and bond markets.

Then, if the Republicans didn't cave in a week or two, and we got to the point where we might have to stop sending out Social Security checks, Obama pulls out the reserve card, raises the debt ceiling unilaterally, and waits to see if any Republicans are crazy enough to challenge him in the Supreme Court on his ability to do it. Ironically, despite the fact that five of the supreme court justices are corporate whores, they'd probably all vote in Obama's favor because a default on the debt would hurt corporations almost as much as it would hurt the people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. you should ask yourself....
.....if that would work (and it sounds like a pretty big if to me) why is obama not doing it or just walking away from the table saying he will do it.

i suspect it is because he actually WANTS the SS/Medicare cuts. otherwise, why the cat food commisison?

we must not misplace our trust.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TrollBuster9090 Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I agree (partly).
I agree, I think he wants some cuts, and wants to blame them on the Republicans. Like I've said before, he's NOT a progressive. He's a center/center-right Democrat. Ideologically he's somewhere between George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton which (sadly) is where the country seems to like their presidents to be.

I'm a progressive, but I don't think progressive causes will move forward by trying to push Democratic presidents farther to the left. They tried that with Jimmy Carter and it only resulted in a neo-conservative backlash and 30 years of destructive Reaganomics. I think progressive goals will move forward when we throw massive support behind progressive Senators and Congressmen and left wing think tanks and media outlets, which will have the effect of pushing the Overton Window farther to the left. The President, for better or for worse, is usually forced to sit in the center of the Overton Window. So, in my opinion, progressives should be trying to move the Overton Window to the left, rather than trying to move a sitting Democratic president away from the center of where it now sits. This will be accomplished by supporting Senators like Sanders, Leahy and Franken; Congressmen like Kucinich and (potentially) Grayson; think tanks like Media Matters, Thinkprogress, Moveon.org, and media outlets like MSNBC. If you rebuild the left side of the political spectrum the president will move closer to it naturally. It's what they do. It's like the law of gravity.

Anyway, I agree, I think he probably wouldn't mind some cuts. However, he also knows that the odds of achieving any kind of "deal" are practically zero thanks to the intransigence of the Republican freshmen in the House. His main objective is to garner support from independent and swing voters, and maybe even a few moderate Republicans by appearing to be realistic and flexible, and willing to compromise while the Republican loonies are not. So, I don't think he expects to really GET any cuts as part of a "big deal." If he does, or if he can spin this in to an excuse to re-write the tax code, he'd probably consider it a bonus. But his primary objective here is to make himself look as reasonable as possible while making the Republicans look as UNreasonable as possible. So far he's doing a good job, at least as far as appealing to "centrists" and swing voters is concerned. He's losing a few progressives, but I'm guessing he's gambling on gaining a greater number of "centrists."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. I disagree with part of your analysis of the situation
A lot of people (you included apparently) think that the citizens of this country are in the same place that they were in 1980 and I don't think that's true. The polling on ISSUES consistently and STRONGLY support the idea that the people support "leftish" positions on the issues by a HUGE majority. Progressive positions on issues are the NEW "Silent Majority".

Just like generals tend to fight the last war, the Dems are still mired in the "center-right" mindset of the Eighties. 30 years is PLENTY of time for the public to change it's mind and become more left. I think it's happened. We need to be fighting today's war, not the one 30 years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TxVietVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Then, take it to the streets in Washington. It's time for something to give.
See if you get air time on the store-bought corporate media. The a$$holes in Washington don't listen to the people. They listen to corporations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
42. that may very well be his strategy.
the problem is it will end up hurting people who have been already hurt too much,
and letting the extremely comfortable off the hook.

that is not acceptable.

i'll have to look into this "overton window."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
40. And, tomp, why appoint Geithner to Sec. of Treasury? Geithner
was appointed to the NY Fed by a committee headed by Pete Peterson. He owes a lot to Pete Peterson.

Fifteen years ago, Peter Peterson used some of the immense wealth he had accumulated as an investment banker to create and bankroll the Concord Coalition. The Concord Coalition was designed as a bipartisan organization promoting fiscal responsibility, with its primary targets being Social Security and Medicare. Peterson and his crew put out screeds, with titles like "Grey Dawn," that attacked these programs and warned that the growing wave of elderly would bankrupt the country.

Like most of the granny bashers, Peterson routinely played fast and loose with the facts. For example, while warning about the poverty facing future generations, he suggested cutting the annual Social Security cost of living adjustment because the official consumer price index (CPI), to which retirees benefits are indexed, overstates the true rate of inflation. However, if the CPI really overstates inflation, then incomes are rising much more rapidly than the official data show; and future generations will be far richer than we could possibly imagine. (If income rises by 4 percent and the inflation rate is 3 percent, then real income has risen by 1 percent. But if our measure of inflation is wrong, and the rate of inflation is just 2 percent, then real income has risen by 2 percent.)

http://www.alternet.org/economy/65341/

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Even better...
Make a list of who'll be getting a raincheck, sort it by state and congressional district, and take it to their constituents.

Let the people know: you are the one who won't get paid on time it your teabagger congressman keeps jerking this around. If you're OK with that and the people you pay bills to are OK with that, fair enough.But if like most people that's not Ok with you, let your congressbagger know, in no uncertain terms.

Take it out of the abstract and spell out the consequences. This could have been done months ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bonnieS Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. In what order
are Senate and House checks going out? Why doesn't Prez Obama say he will not accept any checks at all if there is a default and challenge the rest of the Senate/Congress to do the same?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TrollBuster9090 Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Screw "challenging" them to do the same. Just cut them all off.
I'm sure he'd gain a lot of political support if he put Congressional salaries at the top of the triage list for things that will be cut FIRST in order to avoid cutting Social Security and Medicare.

If the Teabaggers make a fuss about it, we can remind them that those almighty FOUNDING FATHERS didn't get paid AT ALL to sit as members of the Continental Congress. THEY WORKED FOR FREE, like REAL patriots as opposed to FAKE patriots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Congress work as agents for the wealthy. That's their job. They keep us (the masses) under control
with their bullshit and facilitate profits for the very wealthy. After all, making rich people richer is the most important thing in the world. That's what civilization revolves around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dorksied Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. pretty smart, but...
while I know it would hurt seniors for a month, its because of a lot of these seniors (the ones who voted tea party and republican) that we're in this mess. So... Cut SS checks for a month, let them feel the pinch, and make sure they know that its because of Republicans that they're not getting their checks. They'll scream at the top of their lungs to anyone who will listen, and they'll turn on the Republicans. Fast.

Pain is a great teacher. Give them pain, and show them who's fault it really is. Then stand back and watch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justyce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. The problem with that is
so many of the headlines read "Obama refuses deal" etc., and so many people don't bother paying attention to what's really going on. On my Facebook, there are so many comments about Obama refusing to issue SS checks & other such nonsense. He's getting blamed by the uninformed already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. The President never has to raise the debt ceiling, nor should he try.
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 11:32 AM by No Elephants
He should simply use his Constitutional power--and perform his Constitutional duty--to pay the already existing obligations of the U.S., obligations that arise under duly adopted laws already enacted. If Treasury has to print more money to do that and/or sell bonds to do that, so be it.

P.S. In case it's not clear, I don't swallow whole the bit about his lawyers and the 14th amendment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. There are four issues.
People seem to like dealing with somewhere between 1/2 and 1 1/2 of them.

1. The 14th Amendment. It distinguishes between debts and obligations. The validity of the debts shall not be questioned. It doesn't say they have to pay them. Presumably by not paying a debt it would lead people to question the validity of the debt, but at the time the problem was that people were saying they simply wouldn't honor some of the debts, but would honor others. Let's let the language mandate what's an implication, by all means. This is what people cite, the first 1/2 of an issue. However, that amendment also *explicitly* grants the authority to implement section 4, the bit everybody's quoting, and by granting the authority explicitly to one authority. In assigning responsibility to one party it's obvious the amendment could have granted it to another, as well, and in not doing so effectively denies the authority to everybody else. Congress is authorized to implement, by legislation, the section everybody's quoting. The president is tacitly told, "None of your business. Article II says you're to follow the laws; await your orders."

2. Article I, section 8 of the Constitution says that the Congress shall borrow against the credit of the United States. The authority is again granted specifically to Congress. We seem to want the president to not only ignore the language of the 14th Amendment, but Article I of the Constitution. I guess we have to destroy the democracy to save it?

3. The budget itself. People argue that by granting permission to spend the money permission is given to obtain the money. In other words, they're trying to argue that Congress may have explicitly taken the authority to borrow to itself in enacting the debt ceiling, never hinting at anything else, but more importantly it can be construed to have implicitly granted any and all powers at revenue raising. They're claiming that by merely passing a budget the Congress has transferred Article I section 8 authority to the president, presumably also allowing him to declare war, make and ratify treaties, and set tariffs and taxes on his own. However, the budget that passed doesn't just authorize the president to spend the money: It says that he shall pay for a few things (essential, but not really huge), and then, the president shall be authorized to spend money from any *additional* revenues for the rest of the budget. In other words, the president's great authority is contingent on revenues; the acquisition of revenues is *not* contingent on complying with mandated spending. The tax bills authorize Obama to find money from taxes; bills on tariffs and other fees and fines authorize him to find money there; the debt ceiling authorizes him to find revenues by borrowing. People are arguing that a contingency provides a mandate. "If it rains, I'll have to stay home" can't be interpreted to mean, "If I stay home, it'll have to rain." He has to pay the interest on the debt; he doesn't *have* to pay for the other, contingent obligations.

4. The general welfare of the US is placed in Congress' hands. They may not act like it, but thems the risks in a democracy. The president could very easily pay the interest on the debt and any debts that come due without spending on other obligations. It's up to him whether to obey the Constitution in this regard, but I'm not likely to praise a President who takes an oath to uphold the Constitution and then decides that his oath isn't worth the air it took to say it. It's easy for a single individual to say, "I think what I need to do to help the country is at odds with the laws and the Constitution I've sworn to uphold. My need in avoiding what I think would be a catastrophe justifies my ignoring the law, I am above the Constitution, I am above Congress." Not a good thing in a president; thugs use the same reasoning. Obama is showing that he's not a thug. Some of his supporters, not so much. Now, if there is *already* a catastrophe--and I'm not talking economic distress or a sudden drop in the polls--extraordinary steps needed to restore a Constitutional order that has already been destroyed is in order. For example, the Continuity of Government plan that all presidents in the last 20 or 30 years have signed. For this purpose there is martial law. Just as Obama has managed to produce a war that doesn't need approval because it's a "humanitarian kinetic military activity with the political goal of overthrowing another country with little risk to us"--essentially staging a coup, but not as cleanly as happened in Chile, so people are asking him to implement partial martial law for reduced grounds without actually implementing full martial law. They want him to just suspend *part* of the Constitution until his uppity minions in the House learn their place, apparently. Perhaps they're Democrats; they're certainly not democrats as the US has traditionally known democrats to be, in other words, republicans. (No, not all republicans are Republicans, and vice-versa, just as not all Democrats are democrats and vice-versa.)

5. The crisis is, in one sense, faked. When the president says the economic catastrophe resulting from not raising the debt ceiling would be utterly heinous and destructive, well, I have my doubts. Harmful, sure, but I'm unconvinced it would be quite so devastating.

On the other hand, when he says he will run the risk of such an utterly heinous and destructive economic catastrophe by not signing a short-term debt ceiling increase, he's just implied that he thinks the short-term debt-ceiling increase is more heinous and destructive than the risk of economic devastation that some say justifies suspending part of the Constitution--or he's playing politics, bargaining with public uncertainty. But why would a short-term debt-ceiling increase be worse than an imminent economic catastrophe? Is it just that he honestly thinks economic ruin is preferable to a repeat of the hassle? Because he thinks a debt-ceiling increase in line with the traditional average increase is beneath him? Because he doesn't want to run the risk of a repeat of this tussle before the elections, providing possible campaign fodder to his opponents and letting governing distract him from his real job of campaigning? Does he intend to make the argument that economic uncertainty would necessarily prevent a jobs-based recovery? I don't know, but I can't think of a good civil-servant response that doesn't shift him from altruistic and good-willed to selfish and defensive. I think a grown up would have the obligation to explain his reasoning, and, if he decides that uncertainty is the reason for the lack of economic growth, act to reduce any and all uncertainty even if he suddenly realizes he sounds like Boehner and McCain.

In fact, straight along a compromise has been possible on both sides, but both sides act as though the consequences of a default are a reasonable price to pay for getting one's way. *They* have explained their reasoning, although perhaps they're not really crazy but faking insanity as a kind of bargaining position (do you really want to challenge a crazy person's bluff?). It's just that one side has delusional people that really seem to believe that their cause is worth extreme economic sacrifice, or that there will be no economic disaster; the other side says that the price would be too high to contemplate, and then acts exactly the same way as the folk called delusional. The inconsistency is glaring and needs to be accounted for. The delusion, well, that I can take at face value.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomThom Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
32. What about the "wars"? We are borrowing that money too.
Will the troops go hungry around the world? Will the bombing stop with not fuel? Sounds good to me. Hold their feet to the fire. We have to raise tax revenue, tax cuts with so many troops deployed is ridiculous and putting it on credit is even dumber.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gmpierce Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. out of order
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 02:28 PM by gmpierce
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gmpierce Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. riight - and wrong
Your solution is absolutely correct - but that is not the way it is going to play out.

When all of the kabuki theater is done, social security and medicare will be gutted (in the long term) and the plan that Obama wanted all along will be blamed on those mean Republicans.

Our political class has discovered that the weak economy means that they are going to have to begin paying back the social security trust fund that they "borrowed" over the last twenty (30? 40?) years. The money is going to have to be paid back and there is no way to do that without heavy tax increases on guess who. (The middle class has already been gutted and fileted.)

They borrowed the money. The only thing in the "trust fund" is IOUs. And they absolutely do not want to repay what they "borrowed".

All of the rest is a combined effort by Obama and the Republicans to throw enough dirt in our eyes that we never figure out what they did to us. (The real effects of whatever plan they pass will not be felt for another few years.)

In case you missed it, yes, I am saying that Obama is as big a crook as the Republicans.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TxVietVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. It sounds like a fantastic plan to me. Hopefully, Obama will do it.
I'm almost afraid that he will cave in to the conservanazi's demands. He should shut them down right now. F*ck 'em. They want to be bullies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Imagine that little weasel Boehner not returning the President's call
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 07:11 AM by mvd
Who does he think he is? Obama already offered the store (again,) and I was hoping his proposal was defeated and he just raised it himself. Get mad and point fingers, Mr. President - to walk away from that deal means they aren't even interested in negotiating. That Grover Norquist is eerie - he seems to wield a lot of power he shouldn't have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
29. You don't have to apologize for calling them terrorists. That's how they behave.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. Too simple
Undo Bush tax cut for billionaires & millionaires and start taxing dead beat corporations that hide their profits off shore.

That my friends would solve this (disaster capitalism) fake crisis brought to you by the fascist politicians that work for the have-too-much-yet-want-even-more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IamK Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
17. "Obama had made nearly-unthinkable concessions for a Democratic president"
By that point, Obama had made nearly-unthinkable concessions for a Democratic president.

He agreed to $1.2 trillion cuts in discretionary spending, and almost $250 billion in cuts to Medicare, including changing the eligibility age, eliminating certain supplemental insurance policies and cutting back on some health provider payments. He agreed to a new inflation calculator that would affect Social Security recipients. And he committed to changes to Social Security in order to make the program solvent.

http://news.yahoo.com/phone-tag-wrong-numbers-collapse-debt-talks-060105421.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rdking647 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
19. the GOP is on trhe way to killing themselves
they have started believing their own talk radio gods that a default wouldnt be a disaster and will somehow let them win in 2012.
right now come 2012 the dems have a real problem. the economy sucks.. that in and of itself makes a dem win in 2012 problematic. But if the GOP causes a default catastrophe then they are done in 2012. right now they are seen as unyielding in their protection of the rich.. they are playing russian roulette with a 6 shooter and they have 6 bullets in the gun.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rdking647 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
20. Obama should negotiate with out boner
since he seems to be unable to act like an adult,put him in a corner and ignore him while the adults talk
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
21. Obama lost his Boehner...
Somebody find Bob Dole...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
26. Boner is the GOPs sleazy used car salesman, never coming back to the table with a compromise
Dear Obama, let Bush's tax payday for the rich expire and just go on, the Citizens of the US are looking to you for leadership.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
julian09 Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Bush tax cut extension Will expire in 2013 as is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
27. You mean the Roopublicons gave up shredding the social safety
net for a trigger they could easily repeal after the elections?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
37. He would have lost the mandate that all Americans be required to purchase
for-profit health "insurance"? Well, OK then!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
38. The Post Dispatch Headline read Boehner Walks Out
I think that headline placed the blame squarely on the GOP. How do other regional headlines read?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
39. Boehner must have flunked math. HIgher taxes for the rich means MORE money for health care not less.
I think he needs to go back to kindergarten.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
41. Boehner lost his manhood when he walked out of the meeting on Friday.
He not only lost his argument, he looks less and less like a man for refusing to stay and talk it out.
The deal is not that hard to reach, but Boehner thinks he is winning the public over -- he is not.

Poll after poll show that the American people can see through the charade that the Republcians are trying to put on here. It won't work.
Obama is not only supportered by his own party, he now has 70% of the American people on his side!!!
70%!!!

That's unheard of!
And Boehner had better wake up and capitulate or Obama will make him look irrelevant by using the 14th amendment to find the funds to pay for the debts that Bush and the GOP party ran up from 2001 to 2009!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC