Two books pulled from Republic Missouri school library shelves

[pstokely]

Source: Springfield News Leader

REPUBLIC -- Two of the three Republic High books singled out in a public complaint last year will now be removed from the school curriculum and library.

Shortly before 9 p.m. Monday, the school board voted 4-0 -- three members were absent -- to keep Laurie Halse Anderson's "Speak," an award-winning book about date rape, and remove Kurt Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five" and Sarah Ockler's "Twenty Boy Summer."

Wesley Scroggins, a Republic resident, challenged the use of the books and lesson plans in Republic schools, arguing they teach principles contrary to the Bible.

"I congratulate them for doing what's right and removing the two books," said Scroggins, who didn't attend the board meeting. "It's unfortunate they chose to keep the other book."

Read more: http://www.news-leader.com/article/20110726/NEWS04/107260366/Two-books-pulled-from-Republic-school-library-shelves?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[bluestateguy]

1. I like how one parent can make a whole policy change

One parent. One.

[formercia]

5. They need a complaint to vote on it.

...so a ringer submits one.

Next step is to file a counter complaint. Slaughterhouse Five? What's wrong with that book? It's a true story.

[dmallind]

8. Alien abduction into an extraterrestrial zoo exhibit with a porn-star mate is a true story? nt

[jberryhill]

10. As compared to a talking snake being punished to "crawl on its belly"

I've never seen the snakes complaining about that one.

They seem to do just fine.

Slaughterhouse Five is more credible, though.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dmallind]

98. True - it's more likely than other books I confess. nt

[JackRiddler]

18. A man so traumatized from the war that he imagines it could be a true story...

At any rate, I'm sure you're aware (since you've obviously read the book) that the poster meant the part about Vonnegut's experiences in the Dresden bombing.

[formercia]

24. Exactly.

That's how the book got its name.

[cyberpj]

110. I'm assuming that was filed under Fiction, yes? At any rate -- once you get started banning books,

well, I don't even think I have to finish that sentence.

[dmallind]

111. Which is irrelevant to my statement that it is not a true story. I made no mention of banning it

While not my favorite Vonnegut it's one I've read several times and enjoyed it, fictional though it is. Gone with the Wind isn't a true story because Atlanta exists, and neither iss S5 because Vonnegut was in Dresden during the bombing.

[No Elephants]

83. Bingo. He never bothered to go to the school board meeting on the books, and, when interviewed,

did not even seem to know the titles of the books, referring to them as "the two books" and "the other book."

As for Slaughterhouse Five, it was one of the best books I ever read. But, I did not read it when I was in elementary school or high school. Is it age appropriate for those ages? I don't recall.

[Volaris]

95. self-delete

[bengalherder]

109. I read it when I was 14.

I was in a local theater production at the time and between exposure to the college-age kids I met doing theater things and a stint working at the public library, I was anxious to check out the literature I saw around me.

Slaghterhouse Five was my first Vonnegut.

As this was community theater, all ages and types were represented. There were a couple of older people in the group who I liked working with and chatting to. One day, I am stretched out in the hallway next to the greenroom reading S5. One of the older men in the troupe approaches me with this angry scowl. He points to the book. "Do your parents know you are reading this?!!!?". I was taken aback. It had never occurred to me that my parents would object, indeed, I had lolled on the couch the weekend before, reading the same book, I figured they must have seen it, so, "Yeah, yeah, they know." and I looked him in the eye. He walked away at that point muttering.

My own child read S5 at about the same age. I was happy to see him do it. It's kinda fun to see that Vonnegut is still naughty after all these years, :), but a bitch seeing they are still trying to actually censor it, :grr:

[defendandprotect]

119. Any anti-war message must be killed --!!

[exboyfil]

13. Slaughterhouse Five???

How can you ban Slaughterhouse Five? It is the best book by one of the top American writers of the second half of the 20th century. It is not really that controversial. If you are worried about a attack on Christianity, I wonder if they have a copy of Ellison's Deathbird - now that is an attack on Christianity. I have Vonnegut, Ellison, Tolkien, and C.S. Lewis as authors in my library. I can deal with dissonance - why can't this flake deal with it.

I hope your kids can read and understand Slaughterhouse Five in High School. They can also pick up C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters or Mere Christianity or his fiction. High School and college is about learning different opinions and making your own mind up. Don't take this marvelous book with its semi-autographical portion about the firebombing of Dresden away from the students. Vonnegut was there, and I think he has something important to say about the experience.

[skepticscott]

33. Or Moby Dick

which is a deeply un-Christian book. Doubtful that any of the fundy book-banners even understand that though. We can be thankful for ignorance in that case.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

47. Pizza, incoming!

[caraher]

54. Welcome to DU...

I hope you've found the right web site. A question like that suggests maybe you're lost...

In your atheist case, a citizen seeks to uphold the First Amendment's principle of separation of church and state.

In this case, a government body is violating the same amendment by censoring books.

The difference is pretty clear

[LetTimmySmoke]

100. That was my first thought. Why does this bible-thumping fuck get so much power?

[blur256]

112. It is because it is

in the buckle of the bible belt. Trust me, I used to live down that way. Ignorance trumps logic every time down there - as long as it is in the name of the lord that is. Scary isn't it? :scared:

[MountainLaurel]

2. Who cares if they teach principles contrary to the Bible?

Other than Mr. Scroggins, of course? And I guess that means "don't rape people" and "war is bad" are contrary to the Bible, or at least the one he's reading.

[Critters2]

11. I haven't read the other two, but what "principle contrary to the Bible"

does Slaughterhouse Five teach?! EVERYONE should read that book!! :banghead:

[defendandprotect]

120. Evidently, Bible is pro-viloence, rape -- and war -- ???

[Arugula Latte]

107. Have these people ever read the frickin' Bible?! There is some sick, twisted sh@# in there!

Seriously creepy stuff goes down in the Bible, not to mention all the violence and smiting and mass murder and approval of slavery and dashing of babes upon rocks and cutting a woman's hands off and incest (Adam and Eve had two sons, sooooo), and on and on -- what a seriously perverted book that is! Oh, but "god" is Love, right? :rofl:

[Kurska]

3. Removing Slaughterhouse Five?

FUCK YOU bastard, go choke you overly religious scumfuck.

[RebelOne]

7. I read that book in high school, which I got from the school library.

At least the Florida schools were not so narrow-minded at the time I attended high school.

[Itchinjim]

14. I read "Slaughterhouse Five" in high school too.

Along with every thing else Vonnegut had written up until 1978. And I pulled each and every one of those books from the shelves of my Catholic high school library. Why are some people so frightened? It's insane. Just insane.

[chervilant]

41. Insane?!

Our ENTIRE SPECIES is teetering on the fine edge of absolute insanity.

[RainDog]

4. go to church to hear about christian principles

go to school to learn about a wide spectrum of ideas that deal with questions christianity in the form these folks practice is unable to answer.

this is pitiful that these four people think they can coerce everyone else to live life the way they do and to limit their minds.

[alp227]

80. If public schools bent over and refused to question religion,

then we'd become Iran.

[ixion]

6. It is NEVER the 'right thing' to remove books, Mr. Scroggins... you should be ashamed of yourself

Especially a literary classic like Slaughterhouse Five, but it is shameful to do it to any book at all.

[jberryhill]

9. Slaughterhouse Five?

These people are crazy.

[Doc_Technical]

17. "poo-tee-weet"

n/t

[arcane1]

12. Yes, let the kiddies read Hosea 13:16 all day long instead n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

15. Just reading the headline...

I guessed they would be going after Vonnegut

[Johnboi70]

16. I couldn't agree more!! Nobody should ever have to read Kurt Vonnegut... oh.. wait...

To be fair, though, Slaughterhouse Five does portray the horrific allied firebombing of Dresden in an unflattering light.

[4saken]

19. An appeal to theology in regard to teaching? That's his argument?!

Does he even know what his theology states? Not having stoning as a punishment for adultery is also contrary to the Bible's teachings. Wesley Scroggins needs to get some perspective, and not hoist his primitive bronze age mythology based on personal taste, but rather argue for it based on its merits(if it can be argued to have any).

[Tansy_Gold]

36. I assure you, 4saken, they mean to bring back stoning, too. n/t

[TheDebbieDee]

48. And chastity belts.......Oh, the horror!

[indurancevile]

75. i believe that, actually. step by step, the idea of "normal" is changed.

[BiggJawn]

79. The stoning is coming.

Your homework assignment:
Research the following:
Christian Reconstructionism
Dominionism
R. John Rushdooney
Gary North

And if THAT doesn't scare the piss out of you...

[socialindependocrat]

20. Ban an award winning book?

I think that the fact that a book won an award says that it has something redeeming about it. If all books were banned because "some one person" didn't want anyone else to read it we would have very few books and we would be a very naive society. I don't think any "one" or any group has the right to say that other people can't read whatever has been written.

[christx30]

117. What someone needs to do

in the absence of the books being allowed, is to buy a bunch of cheap copies of the book and leave them on the tables in the library. Make sure people are able to read them.

Banning a book from the library is actually not a bad thing. It gets the kids curious about what is in the book. Maybe it'll make the kids actually want to pick it up. The kids might not even know who Vonnegut was. Maybe this will encourage them to find out.

[Solly Mack]

21. Fucking idiots.

[toddwv]

22. Time for someone to file a complaint and have the Bible banned too.

Based on the criteria given, the Bible is definitely in violation.

[av8rdave]

23. Slaughterhouse Five? Really?

Well, it IS against war and killing, so that does teach principles contrary to the Bible.

[RevStPatrick]

25. So it goes.

I was just thinking about one of my other favorite authors, Robert Heinlein.
We are definitely in his "Crazy Years."

So it goes...

[byronius]

27. Nehemiah Scudder Bachmann. Toooooooo true.

[slay]

34. +1

[The Wizard]

26. Slow in the head (NT)

[AtheistCrusader]

28. If there is one thing I can impress upon my child it will be; read the books on the banned list.

[demwing]

31. AMEN to that.

[MrScorpio]

29. Didn't Lot's own daughters get him drunk to sleep with him?

I dare you to try to find some drunken incest in "Slaughterhouse Five"!

[demwing]

30. I don't care if the bible the best book ever written, or the worst

It simply doesn't matter. Religious belief should have no bearing on what gets taught in a public school, EVER.

What will it take for the fucking fascists to just disappear?

[defendandprotect]

121. We need to free the South -- and its women -- !!!

[slay]

32. I urge everyone, and certainly every teen in Missouri, to go read the SUPERB Slaughterhouse Five

by Kurt Vonnegut ASAP. One of my all time favorites! Fuck these idiot bible thumping republicans trying to tell people what they can and can not read! And what the fuck is wrong with Republicans (besides the obvious) - if you don't like it - don't fucking read it. Just like the hissy fits they throw about some tv shows - if you don't like it - don't watch it! But for fucks sake stop trying to make these decisions for the rest of us cause progressives, and intelligent people in general - have HAD IT with republicans thinking they can control everything everybody does! For people who claim they want the government out of people's lives, they sure as hell don't act that way - telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies, telling people what they can and can not read. These Republicans are very much like the right-wing fascists from 1930's Germany!!!! And you know what a fitting book concerning that time period would be - Slaughterhouse Five!!! Read it, love it - I did.

[skamaria]

35. This could backfire

When kids find out it's been banned they will just have to read it...

[Volaris]

96. I was just going to say, is there a FASTER way to get a kid to read a book....

than to tell them 'Even though this is one of the greatest pieces of literature of the Twentith Century, its' is far, FAR to dangerous for you to be exposed to, so you CAN'T have it..."

What idiots....

[socialindependocrat]

99. I read Lord of the Flies in Jr High and my teacher saw it on my desk

while we were taking a test and he looked at me and Tsk'd me. I read the book and couldn't figure why they were opposed to us reading it. I did read it because I heard we weren't supposed to.
I also read Catcher in the Rye - just this year - to see why they keep referring to it when someone goes postal. First, I think it was a waste of time and second, I couldn't find anything that would make me pissed off enough to shoot someone. Would someone please let me know where the trigger is in this book. I'm obviously a naive retiree.

[mikeytherat]

101. In Catcher in the Rye, Holden Caufield is always wearing his hunting hat, talking about hunting.

It is often interpreted that he's getting ready to hunt people.

mikey_the_rat

[Ishoutandscream2]

102. My English teacher whispered to me to read "Catcher"

I was a junior in high school in the late 1970s. She had to whisper that to me. How insane is that?

[cullen7282]

37. Isn't this illegal?

The U.S. Supreme Court considered the First Amendment implications of the removal of the book, among others, from public school libraries in the case of Island Trees School District v. Pico, <457 U.S. 853 (1982)>, and concluded that "local school boards may not remove books from school library shelves simply because they dislike the ideas contained in those books and seek by their removal to 'prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion.'"

[stlsaxman]

39. Thank you!

[rebecca_herman]

113. that's not the reason the books were removed according to the full article

From the article:

Minor said the process took a while because the 4,500-student district didn't want to look at the three books "in isolation." Instead, a task force was convened to develop book standards for elementary, middle and high schools.

The panel reviewed existing board policy and the public rating systems that already exist for music, TV and video games.

"We very clearly stayed out of discussion about moral issues. Our discussions from the get-go were age-appropriateness," he said.

"The discussion we've been having was not are these good books or bad books ... It is is this consistent with what we've said is appropriate for kids."

The board adopted the standards -- which cover language, violence, sexuality and illegal substances -- in April and those standards have since been applied to the three books.

[Doctor_J]

116. You think the law applies to Republicans?

not for at least 20 years.

[TatonkaJames]

38. Does it sound like he wants Christianity

To somehow mimic Sharia Law ?

[eppur_se_muova]

66. Hmmmm ... would these books violate the principles of Sharia law?

Either way, it would be ironic.

[W T F]

40. Why remove the books when you burn them instead?

[alp227]

42. Wesley Scroggins should homeschool or send his kids to a fundie Christian school

I'm tired of radical religious parents imposing THEIR twisted, ignorant views on public schools via censorship like this. Our anti-intellectual culture is turning our country at a backwards angle while Asian and European students are getting smarter. (I was about to say "the schools will let the kids read easy lit like Twilight and Harry Potter" but realized about the parent)

[Johnboi70]

60. Honestly, I prefer it when they don't homeschool their kids...

Seriously, when they expend energy banning books and trying to rewrite history in the public schools, it exposes them to well-deserved ridicule. Meanwhile, their kids are still getting a less narrow-minded education than they would at home (and a chance to escape from their controlling parents on occasion). Homeschooling *CAN* be a form of abuse and any opportunity to minimize abuse makes our society a better place.

[alp227]

74. good point, I should've attacked the school districts that bend over to accommodate

the parents' frivolous complaints.

[Johnboi70]

76. Possibly. The important part is that you took note of it and made your views known.

The ridicule is such an important element. I mean, your reaction to reading the article constitutes part of the social control and the normalizing effect of social interaction... as does mine. You pointed out that they're trying to impose their radical views on everyone else and I insinuated that they were abusing their own children. You suggested that they should leave the sandbox if they can't play nicely and I said that leaving means that there's bad parents. You see how the two points of view are complementary? In order for my approach to work, I need yours!!

[RayOfHope]

81. He does, actually. I live in this community. He's a whacko, and I mean first class nut

everyone around here knows it.

[blogslut]

84. Please tell me

He's not the Wesley Scroggins I found on teh Google. That guy is a professor at Missouri State. If it's him that makes this whole thing triple sad.

[RayOfHope]

86. Yep, its him. n/t

[blogslut]

88. Wow

Granted, it appears he's one of those MBA-bot instructors but just the same, a university professor advocating the removal of books from a library...the mind reels.

[Posteritatis]

114. And that's why I generally don't recognize MBAs as scholars. (nt)

[cheapdate]

44. Few books have made me think deeper about what humanity means

and how precious are our lives here in this world.

Apparently, we haven't dumbed down high school education enough for some people.

[Odin2005]

45. WTF is their problem with Slaughterhouse Five?

[Johnboi70]

46. Slaughterhouse Five *IS* a poor vehicle for teaching Christian theology. n/t

[pauljulian]

49. True...

and they've shown that's all they want taught in schools...

What the hell, let's pass a law to redefine pi as 3 --- oh, wait... that attempt has been made?

Gawdamn ungodly math, science and literature...

/s

[Johnboi70]

52. It's a thought-provoking book...

It caused me to question the very nature of existence. It's written in a way that reflects our non-linear experiences of memory and how we can edit that memory. In that way, it's insidious. It raises doubt about the validity of any doctrinal view of the nature of reality. If I were raising a true-believer, I would ban it too.

I'm betting that it was the unflattering portrayal of the fire-bombing of Dresden that really drove this... :-D

[pauljulian]

56. Most of these yahoos have no idea of Dresden

Dresden? Whut? Hail, that ain't even a name in the Biiieeeeeble!

They don't know much about history... hell, they don't even know what's in their "holy" book...

I saw someone make the statement yesterday that if one were to ask for an Old Testament reference portraying God as vengeful, they could come up with it in a snap...

Anything Jesus, James or John said about love... *crickets*

(but they shore do know themselves some John 3:16... only because some clown at football games and NASCAR races keeps flashing a poster with that ref.)

[Johnboi70]

58. Well, in that case...

Why bother banning a book nobody is in danger of reading?? :-D

Honestly, banning Slaughterhouse Five is the stupidest F***ing thing I've heard of in a long time. I'm having a very difficult time extracting my tongue from my cheek!

[pauljulian]

63. As another wise commenter here stated

It may just get kids to read it...

Poetic justice and the law of unintended consequences. May his kids grow up to be the opposite of their dad.

[christx30]

118. They reject the

theory of gravity, in favor of "Intelligent Falling"

[existentialist]

61. Actually, I could disagree, and write an essay as to why it might

be a very good vehicle.

For instance, I remember that when Billy Pilgrim was questioned about how much he really knew about torture and suffering, his response to himself was that he knew all about suffering from the picture in his church of Christ on the cross.

That said, and although the argument could be made there is certainly ample ground for counterargument.

Also, I don't really feel the energy to do such an essay.


But I think we can agree that Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five is an incredibly thought provoking work--even if, as Vonnegut wrote: "It is a failure. It had to be. It was written by a pillar of salt."

[Johnboi70]

62. Touché

Perhaps I should revise my statement to say "SH5 is a poor vehicle from spreading fundamentalist dogma (since it questions the nature of reality)?"

[fascisthunter]

67. Book Banning... how about we ban the Bible

since that book doesn't seem to be a good vehicle for christian theology. What other books should we ban from our libraries?

[Johnboi70]

69. See Above: I had to revise that statement. Apparently, SH5 might indeed be a...

good vehicle for teaching Christian theology, just not fundamentalist dogma. My bad.

Hmmm... What other ones should we ban?? Everyone I know who has read Ayn Rand has ended up insane. Perhaps there's a public health issue there, but I'm not sure if there's a causal effect. For instance, were these guys insane for wanting to dive into her objectivist world?? OR were they somehow vulnerable and her message was the final straw?? OR, perhaps, reading Ayn Rand is like the Videodrome and exposure causes insanity. This needs further study, but it *might* be a good reason for restricting access to all her books.

On the other hand, the simplest way of handling this would be to stop teaching people to read :-D

[Johnboi70]

70. Come to think of it, many people have been burned at the stake for reading the Bible n/t

[blm]

50. Why didn't Scroggins target Ayn Rand's books? Rand's books are as contrary to the Bible as it gets.

Effin Repub hypocrite.

[Johnboi70]

53. Probably because they're shallow and unchallenging n/t

[Peregrine Took]

51. "Beam me up!" I can't stand it anymore. Who ever would have thought we

would drift so far backwards into abject ignorance?

[McCamy Taylor]

55. Slaughter House 5? Yippee! Now the kids will go read it because it is "smutty".

[KurtNYC]

87. Dirty books? A: Chaucer, Rebalais...Balzac!

Next thing ya know they'll open a pool hall!

[Sentath]

103. Shakespear

almost got in a Lot of trouble trying to explain a couple of his allusions.

[existentialist]

57. Slaughterhouse Five

Back in the day I wrote a research paper regarding the Board of Education Island Trees decision to remove some books, including Slaughterhouse Five from the school library. In that case--although the case had almost zero value as a precedent because of the way the Court split--the United States Supreme Court held that the the Board of Education could not remove the books in question.


Even further back in the day, Slaughterhouse Five was assigned reading for my high school humanities course, and was assigned again during my college modern American Novel course.


Now its being banned again.

The only other book that I have read that begins to really indicate the madness that was World War II is Gunter Grass' Die BlechTrommel.

But we can't let our innocent children know that war is madness--can we?

[yawnmaster]

64. I find that laughter is a major component of Slaughterhouse 5. eom

[rurallib]

65. Wouldn't it be easier to throw out all books but the bibble?

The way their going about it it's going to take several years and lots of votes to get where they want to be.

[Hayabusa]

68. Damn it

there should be a law requiring people to read Slaughterhouse 5, not a school board edict banning it.

[abelenkpe]

71. Omg that is so sad and stupid. Nt

[harun]

72. Never heard of them.

[cliffordu]

73. I got an IDEA!!! LET'S BURN SOME BOOKS!!!!!

I fucking hate anti-intellectual religionist shitheads. Really.

God damn them to hell.

So there.

Yes, it IS a NAZI reference. Fuck 'em.

[buckrogers1965]

77. As a pastafarian

I object to any pasta cooking books in the library as being contrary to my creators will.

If you set policy according to religion, then you have to respect every religion that makes a claim.

I wonder what it would take to get a free copy of Slaughter House Five to every child in that school district?

[freshwest]

78. Who's paying for the library staff and the school? The church? I doubt that, they don't pay taxes.

[alp227]

82. I read Slaughterhouse Five last year, because of this I might wanna reread it n/t

[TroglodyteScholar]

85. Banning Vonnegut is downright shameful

Can someone please explain to me exactly what about SH5 is dangerous?

[adigal]

89. What a disgrace. We are going down the tubes, fast

They don't seem to get separation of Church and state. Parents can opt their children out of a book, and the teacher can choose another book for them, if there are religious objections.

How much do you want to be the parent didn't read either book???

[lunatica]

90. Slaughterhouse Five has caused so many slaughters

It's an evil book I tell ya!

:sarcasm: <--- for the sarcastically impaired

[JAnthony]

91. Population of Republic, MO: 2010 14,500 grown 69% in 10 yrs!!!

Who is moving in there? I never heard of the place before this news article!

What's going on in Republic, MO to attract and empower right wing fascists to censor public education?


Anybody from that area of the state have a clue?

I see that it's not TOO far from OK. And I know SW MO. is pretty conservative, but....

[pstokely]

92. Exurb of Springfield MO

SW MO is a fast growing area

[VWolf]

93. Wesley Scroggins has come unstuck in time

and is living in the 19th century.

:grr:

[myrna minx]

94. K&R n/t

[DocMac]

97. Kids today.

The very fact that a decision was made to remove the books will cause the students to rush out and buy them.

[and-justice-for-all]

104. "teach principles contrary to the Bible."

is not a legitimate argument and if the Public school system of Missouri recognizes it, then they are in violation of the constitution and should be sued.

[Erose999]

105. Why aren't those cheese dicks going after Ayn Rand since she also challenges X-ianity? Also,

her novels have more graphic descriptions of rape than just about any other author.

[kentauros]

106. Time then for some of the kids

to do a little clandestine resupplying of their library }(

[davsand]

108. Wow, my daughter just read Speak recently.

She really was touched by the book--to the point she asked her father and me to read it too. He's got it right now, and I'll read it when he hands it over. It might sound odd, but in our family we pass books around and we actually TALK about them.

I dunno about putting it on a class list or teaching it as a part of a curriculum--I'll know more after I actually get to read it--but that author is highly respected and certainly the subject matter needs to be discussed with kids. Makes sense to me that a teacher might want to teach it as part of a class if it is as well written as the author's reputation suggests.

I'm afraid I am missing the reason why it would be a challenged book for a library, however. Book banners never really have any logic to what they do, and I have yet to REALLY understand why they do anything they do...



Laura

[mainer]

115. There'll be a run on those books in bookstores now

Banning always has the opposite effect.

[Kennah]

122. Welcome to the Idiocracy