Chavez turns 57 vowing to stay in power until 2031

[robcon]

Source: APnews

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez sang, danced and said he intends to stay in power for two more decades as he celebrated his 57th birthday looking ahead to months of cancer treatment.

Chavez rallied a crowd of cheering supporters from the balcony of the presidential palace on Thursday, waving a large Venezuelan flag and briefly wrapping himself in it. He said he expects to lose his hair soon as a result of chemotherapy and that a long process of treatment lies ahead.

"This is going to be various months all of this year, but I'm going to continue in charge of my government functions," Chavez said.

He mixed serious statements about his upcoming treatment with the ecstatic rallying cries of a leader already in pre-campaign mode ahead of the 2012 election.

Read more: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110729/D9OP5SEO0.html

---

He wants to reign, not preside, as president - like his hero Castro.

A real thug.

[socialshockwave]

1. It's horrid.

Chavez wants unlimited power. He doesn't care about the people - he just cares about his own self and crushing dissent.

It's people like him who give progressives a bad name.

[BuddhaGirl]

2. just like any other dictator!

n/t

[socialshockwave]

4. This'll sound dumb...

but what does n/t mean?

But mhm, Chavez is almost as bad if not worse then some of these right wing wackos who call themselves elected officials.

But remember - Glenn Beck says G.W.B was a progressive!

[TheWraith]

5. n/t means "no text."

Usually it's used when someone's comment fits entirely into the message subject, so there's nothing more in the body. Then people add "nt" to the end of their message, so nobody bothers clicking onto it expecting to read more.

[crazyjoe]

72. you would have to put it in the subject line for it to work like you say.

[bitchkitty]

28. If I were you, I'd worry more about what comes before the n/t.

[lunasun]

33. Chavez will always be evil as long as he is in charge of all that oil

Well, evil At least in the good oleoil grabbing USA

See Oliver Stone's South of the Border
about Hugo Chávez and other leftist Presidents ofSouth America



The best line in the movie still lifts my heart

"Against and despite all media against him , he still won the election"
Gives me hope

[madokie]

40. Our government has a campaign of mis informing us about the Venezuelan

President and its because of the fact he won't play ball, let them steal the people of Venezuela blind like what was happening pretty much everywhere in south America up until these last couple decades.

[Steerpike]

19. To be Fair

He is a popularly elected President.

[EFerrari]

37. LOL! Yes, h\is endless greed is why poverty has been cut in half

in Venezuela during his tenure! Damn you, Chavez!

[roody]

55. That is why the Venezuelan gap between rich and poor

is shrinking. The opposite of the US.

[dipsydoodle]

3. like his hero Castro

Well if you mean turn Venezuela into a great holiday resort for Canadians, Europeans, Chinese and Russians then fine just as long as it helps the people of Venezuela.

[dbackjon]

6. So he is admitting he is a dictator

[harmonicon]

8. How do you read that out of this?

If Obama said "I will be president until 2016" would he be a dictator? You may not have noticed, but politicians like to make such claims at political rallies. It's part of campaigning.

[dbackjon]

9. Because he has used illegal means to keep getting elected

He is a dictator. Doesn't matter if he is a "lefty" (although he is definately not progressive). He is still a dictator.

[harmonicon]

15. Typing it out doesn't make it so. Here, check this out:

I'm Santa Claus. Believe me?! You should, because I typed it out.

[bitchkitty]

29. What illegal means?

Like the poster says, typing it doesn't make it so. Care to elaborate?

[EFerrari]

42. Link? Thanks in advance.

[Judi Lynn]

47. Illegal, huh? You mean like a court selected him? Or his party controlled the vote results?

As you have already been asked, please do provide links to your evidence. We want to know as much as you do.

[bitchkitty]

76. WHAT ILLEGAL MEANS?

That little fart you just floated in company was noticed by all. You can't enlighten us because it's a lie, which you knew when you typed it.

[harmonicon]

7. I doubt his "cheering supporters" would agree that he's a thug.

If you really don't like it, sort out getting Venezuelan citizenship and vote against him. He's won multiple elections more free and fair than those we have in the US. If he's a thug, I wish we had such a thug in the US government.

[CBHagman]

10. This is what you desire?

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/venezuela/report-2009

Attacks on journalists were widespread. Human rights defenders continued to suffer harassment. Prison conditions provoked hunger strikes in facilities across the country. Some significant steps were taken to implement the 2007 law on violence against women but there was a lack of commitment from many of the authorities responsible. Lack of arms control contributed to high levels of violence and public insecurity.
Background

On 31 July the enabling law that empowered President Hugo Chávez Frías to pass legislation by decree on a wide range of issues including public security and institutional reform came to an end with legislative power returning in its entirety to the National Assembly. During the 18 months the law was in force, President Chávez issued a total of 66 decrees covering a wide range of issues.

A law on national intelligence and security passed by presidential decree in May was withdrawn the following month following protests against several aspects of the law, including a provision that would have obliged people to inform on each other or face prosecution.

There were reports of physical attacks on journalists, by both security forces and by civilians. Public insecurity remained an issue...

[harmonicon]

14. You're conflating things that aren't related.

I understand that Venezuela is not as wealthy as the US and has real problems with crime, poverty, and infrastructure. You can pick and choose things from daily life to make politicians look good or bad. There are lots of murders in the US - is that the president's fault?

That there would be attacks on journalists anywhere in the world concerns me. The US supported a coup in Honduras which harassed and murdered a great number of journalists. We've also murdered journalists in Iraq. The place of private journalism in Venezuela is a curious case, in part because much of the media is owned by right-wing forces which actively supported the coup which temporarily deposed the country's elected leader.

What I desire is to have elections in the US where the people really have a choice. To have a force which could counter our corporate controlled media which picks out candidates for us. I would also like a leftist leader, but if that's not what people wanted to vote for, so be it. In Venezuela it is what the people have voted for time and time again, and I think it's an insult to them to suggest that they don't know what they're doing.

[RZM]

21. By definition, 'cheering supporters' like whomever they are cheering

Sometimes the cheering is coerced, though I don't think that is the case here. But they aren't the most reliable indicator of a particular leader's commitment to democracy.

Chavez is an interesting case. I've always been on the fence about him. On the one hand, I think he does enjoy strong support and Venezuelans have a right to support whomever they wish. But there is also a lot of criticism of him and it is by no means confined to the right. I think it's inaccurate to argue that anyone speaking against Chavez is a corporate tool or brainwashed by the right (not saying you are arguing that). He has been criticized from the left and center too, particularly regarding his commitment to democracy and freedom of the press.

I believe it's good for a functioning democracy to see some variety at the top spot. You don't see a whole lot of real democratic countries where the same person helms the government for decades at a time. If the Venezuelan people continue to elect him, then so be it, but at some point I think he should at least groom a hand-picked successor, endorse them, and let the people decide if they want to continue Chavez's policies with a new leader or go in a different direction. If it's the policies and the people that he cares about, then that shouldn't be a problem.

[harmonicon]

30. I'm all for criticism and debate.

It just galls me that many people who don't like Chavez will just throw around words like "dictator" and "thug" with absolutely nothing to back up such allegations. If people want to criticize actions his government makes, that's fine by me.

I don't actually agree that it's always good to have a change in who is in power in a government. I wasn't even born at the time, but I'm very glad that we had FDR as president for as long as we did. Since then, I think only Clinton could have easily won a third term, and I don't think it would have been a bad thing if he had been able to.

That's beside the point though. The Venezuelans have their own democracy, and it's different in some ways from ours. In some ways it's probably better, and in some ways probably worse. What bothers me the most about the Chavez-bashing isn't my feelings for the man, but my feelings for those who elected him. It's an insult to them to suggest that they - who have radically changed their country though a peaceful democratic process - don't matter.

[cbdo2007]

11. Dang it, he's my Birthday Buddy!!!

booo!!!!

[sulphurdunn]

12. Chavez

is the legitimately elected president of Venezuela, not a dictator. Under the country's constitution, he may hold that post so long as the people reelect him.

Chavez has been far more effective in the cause of promoting socialism peacefully than Castro ever was exporting armed struggle.

The Venezuelan government has been the inspiration for the rise of left leaning governments in Ecuador, Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina and Bolivia that are taking back control of their resources and finances from the global corporate interests and domestic oligarchs who had turned all of Latin America into petty banana republics. Chavez is demonized in the capitalist press and hated by the privileged in Venezuela because of his policies not his demeanor.

[socialshockwave]

13. I consider myself a Chavez critic

because he's taken away freedom of speech, freedom of press and generally attacked, with words and fists, people who disagree with him.

Disagreement is a right - a right Chavez has taken away from those who oppose him.

[Steerpike]

18. The media

In his country (that he cracked down on) spread disinformation specifically designed to demonize Chavez and his Administration. This media represents the Monied European Descendants that have grown accustomed to taking the riches of the country for themselves and their cronies. They have chosen to oppose Chavez's Socialist Revolution through Murder, Lies and Subversion.

Unfortunately for their lieing asses there is no constitution to protect them. Too fucking bad for them. The oligarchs that have terrorized south America for generations will do anything to maintain a stranglehold on the workers...The media is their tool.

[lunasun]

34. The media is their tool.

exactly what happened there
like a FOX nightmare! people here in USA get a lot of Chavez = devil propaganda too
He is evil becuz he controls oil .


I bet he may even some day have WMDs if enuf USA people will believe it

Dont forget Bush + Chavez

[EFerrari]

43. No, he hasn't. The media in Venezuela is still largely owned by the opposition. n/t

[rabs]

64. Hey EF, guess where the AP office in Caracas is located ...

No need to say more.

---------------------------


Descripción:
Agencia Internacional de Noticias y Prensa

Direcciones en Caracas de AP ASSOCIATED PRESS
Dirección: Av. Urdaneta, Esq. de Animas, Edf. El Universal, P-2, Ofc. D
Urb./Sector: La Candelaria
Teléfono: [phone] (0212)621.1500
Fax: [phone]

[EFerrari]

67. Oh, brother. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

69. Good old "just the facts" AP. Nesting inside the offices owned by the virulent enemy of the Pres. nt

[roody]

56. links?

[roody]

16. He is referring to dying, not staying in power.

He is not going away, aka dying, for two more decades. Some of you have been watching too much right-wing television.

[Bucky]

20. Sorry, but no. Here's the reality check. He used to say he'd stay in power till '21. Now he says '31

"I invite you all to celebrate my 77th," Chavez said. "I had said I'd leave in 2021. Well, I'm not going away in 2021 or anything. Maybe in 2031."

So it's less than a solemn campaign pledge to hold office for 20 more years. It might be just flattering his supporters (except that he's already stayed in office longer than he originally said he would). But the context is clear that he's not talking about his longevity. He's specifically referencing his tenure in office.

I think it's pathetic that you, as a Chavez supporter, jump straight to an accusation of following right winger propaganda just because they criticize him... and that you have to misrepresent his meaning in order to sustain that point.

[Steerpike]

22. He still has to be elected...

Soooo...what is the problem? As long as his countrymen continue to vote for him he deserves to be president.

[cstanleytech]

24. Would you be so supportive if it was Bush

being elected to term after term because its his "countrymen" voting from him?

[Steerpike]

25. Clever Question...

Our Constitution precludes that. Their countries laws do not! Plus Chavez is cool...while Bush is a Dumb Ass.

[cstanleytech]

31. You did know that

Venezuela did have term limits when Chavez came into office the first time right?

[msanthrope]

48. Don't bring facts into this. We all know that if Bush had changed the

Constitution to eliminate the Presidential term limit, no one here would have had a problem with it. In fact, I can't wait to hear how changing one's constitution by referendum is defensible---andheck, Chjavez only had to run two of them to strike the term limits....

I mean, really. We all know that when the electorate can change the Constitution by referendum, good things happen. Ask California.....

[Judi Lynn]

53. You should be fully aware our constitution had NO term limits whatsoever

and that FDR died during his fourth term, and would probably been re-elected if it hadn't been for his death interfering, of course.

We do know the Republicans are the ones who blocked multiple re-runs, as they could NEVER, and will never be able to find any Republican who would do so much for the majority of the citizens he dould ever be re-elected time after time. NEVER.

So, in true fashion, since the majority would prefer Democrats over time, they made sure that wouldn't be happening again. Dirty, and typical.

[msanthrope]

54. Our constitution didn't allow you or I to vote, either. That's why amendments exist.

And they don't get passed by simple majority or referendum. We tend to have a great record with our amendments--I can think of only one fuckup, which was rectified with another amendment.

The only other 'democracy' in this hemisphere that does not have a presidential term limit?

Cuba.

A term limit on the executive is a sign of progress--hell, I'm old enough to remember Jerry Brown campaigning for them....

As I noted downthread, I'm betting that if I perused Prop 8 threads, I'd find very little support for the idea that a governing Constitution can and should be changed by simple majority...

[roody]

27. Venezuela has transparent elections. US does not.

[cstanleytech]

32. Your certainly free to believe they have a better and less chance of being

corrupted election process than we do if you want to.

[EFerrari]

36. It's not a matter of belief but of fact.

Venezuela has paper ballots, a huge audit and international observers. We don't.

You are free to believe their elections are not better than ours if you want to.

[cstanleytech]

46. If we were keeping score you would have just lost because

I didnt say nor do I believe ours are better.

[EFerrari]

51. Actually, I posited a conditional statement, so no, you would not have won. n/t

[cstanleytech]

58. Whatever you want to claim

or believe is ok but what I know I know for a fact which is I did not say ours was better, imo they are both flawed.

[joshcryer]

60. The 2012 Venezuelan election is introducing electronic voting machines.

It will be interesting to see how they handle their multi dimensional party system that way (MUD is a part of parties, etc, the ballots there are massive).

[lunasun]

35. I like when media refers to him here as - would be dictator-

would be dictator if not elected !
:crazy:

and that has not been easy

The Big Money people try hard

[joshcryer]

63. If he didn't control the administrative process that vets candidates and disallows the opposition...

...from running, you might have a point. Fortunately Venezuela is being smart and is introducing candidates that are so squeaky clean that it's a joke.

[roody]

26. "I'm not going away" does not mean I

am serving as president. I will now check the Spanish, which is what he spoke.

[rabs]

45. Chavez quotes:

Caracas, 28 Jul. AVN .- "¡Vienen 57 más, viviremos y venceremos!", dijo el Presidente de la República, Hugo Chávez Frías, al salir al balcón del pueblo, en el Palacio de Miraflores, a compartir con el pueblo congregado para celebrar su cumpleaños número 57.

Chavez:

"57 more are coming, we will live and triumph ..."

"Llegué a los 57. Es la mitad de la vida. Estoy comenzando a vivir", dijo Chávez, quien agregó que los presidentes de Bolivia, Evo Morales; de Cuba, Raúl Castro, y de Brasil, Dilma Rousseff, enviaron felicitaciones por su cumpleaños.

"I have reached 57. That is half of life. I am beginning to live ..."

-------

Looking to see where AP got its version.

[EFerrari]

39. He obviously was talking about his longevity.

All of these stories always turn out to be bullshit. I have to add this one to my collection.

[cstanleytech]

23. How do you figure that exactly?

The quote from the article says

"I invite you all to celebrate my 77th," Chavez said. "I had said I'd leave in 2021. Well, I'm not going away in 2021 or anything. Maybe in 2031."

That doesnt sound like he was discussing his death (unless he was considering suicide in 2021) but rather it sounds more like he is telling of his intentions to remain in power.

[EFerrari]

41. You do know that Venezuela is a democracy and that the president

can't decide for himself when to leave office, right?

[msanthrope]

50. He can't resign, or decline to run?

Who knew?

[EFerrari]

52. Off in left field as usual. n/t

[joshcryer]

61. He can't die either.

:rofl:

[msanthrope]

65. President for Life means President for Life.....

Poor Chavez. His life his not his own...

[crazyjoe]

73. what? he's not allowed to resign? what happens if he tries, is he arrested ? Haha

[David__77]

17. Here's hoping.

It's interesting how people of color are "thugs," but not usually whites. Because of the racial roots of the word, I can imagine why this is so.

[UTUSN]

38. K&R #1 but his electorate *here* won't let it get above zero. n/t

[slackmaster]

44. Sic semper tyrannis

:argh:

[msanthrope]

49. I'm betting that if I were to check out a few Prop 8 threads, I might notice a few inconsistencies.

I suspect that I would find very few supporters of the idea that one's governing Constitution ought to be changed by referendum....in the Prop 8 threads.


But if Chavez runs two referendums to change his country's constitutional term limits? That's okay---

Uses the state-run media channels to advertise his stance on the issue??? That's okay, too---because no one here on DU would have lost their shit if the Governor of California had used state resources to influence the Prop 8 vote.

[joshcryer]

62. He's ruled by decree over a third of his entire Presidency.

Far far more undemocratic than referendums ever thought about being.

[msanthrope]

66. But, ruling by decree is okay if you do it to for the right reasons.

Democracy is hard. If you rule by decree to make it easier for you to improve economic conditions, then you shouldn't be held accountable for violating democratic principles.

Hugo gives the people bread. What do they need votes for?

[unkachuck]

57. c'mon folks....

"...Chavez sang, danced and said he intends to stay in power for two more decades..."

....Hugo said this with his tongue-in-cheek....besides, if he keeps on winning elections, who cares how long he stays in power?

....that fact is, in two more decades, most of us over fifty will be dead, including the lovable Hugo....

[rabs]

59. You nailed it.

Anytime the Associated Press reports anything from Caracas on Chavez, I go check out the original Spanish. Sure enough, the translation is crappy.

The headline on the OP says Chavez was "vowing to stay in power until 2031" and that "he intends to stay in power for two more decades."

He said no such thing.

He used the words "A lo mejor en el 2031, a lo mejor que se yo a los 77" años." ("a lo mejor" = "maybe."

Correct translation is "maybe in 2031, what do I know, maybe (when I'm) 77 years old."

"Maybe" is a far cry from "vowing."

His remarks were ad-hoc in a jocular sense. He joked too that when he loses his hair from the chemo treatments, he will be known as "Yul Chavez." That is the spirit in which he made his remarks, and not the false, draconian translation by the Associated Press reporter that got the anti-Chaves folks all riled up.

-------------------
This is the lead on the AP's Spanish story: Note how it goes from "maybe" in Spanish to "vowing" in the English version.

El presidente Hugo Chávez celebró el jueves su cumpleaños 57 en medio del combate contra el cáncer y afirmó que se irá del gobierno "a lo mejor en el 2031".

My translation: President Hugo Chavez celebrated Thursday his 57th birthday in the midst of (his) fight against cancer and affirmed that he would leave the government "maybe in 2031."


Moral: Beware of the AP's English-language reporting from Caracas.

[UTUSN]

68. Yeah, beware of Dictionary.com: affirm

************QUOTE**********

–verb (used with object)
1.
to state or assert positively; maintain as true: to affirm one's loyalty to one's country; He affirmed that all was well.

2.
to confirm or ratify: The appellate court affirmed the judgment of the lower court.

3.
to assert solemnly: He affirmed his innocence.
EXPAND



–verb (used without object)
5.
Law .
a.
to state something solemnly before a court or magistrate, but without oath.

b.
to ratify and accept a voidable transaction.

c.
(of an appellate court) to determine that the action of the lower court shall stand.

************UNQUOTE*********

[Judi Lynn]

70. Many of us trust the man who knows exactly what he's talking about. n/t

[harun]

75. You can see how easily duped some of these people are. Everything the Corporate

Media says about Chavez is going to be biased and a lie. EVERYTHING.

Of course this isn't saying he doesn't do things wrong, all leaders do. But they need to be conscious of the filter they are seeing him through.

[bitchkitty]

77. There are two kinds of Chavez haters, IMO.

The first are the innocent stupid who would believe anything if they hear it often enough. Although stupid, they are not necessarily evil or mean. They are redeemable.

The second are the ones who craft the lies, and they are beyond redemption.

[crazyjoe]

71. Jeez, doesn't he have to be elected first? How does he already

know the outcome of elections for the next 20 years?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

74. We defund the arts and sciences as being frivolous. We're going downhill.

Venezuela has the Youth Orchestra of Simon Bolivar.

And the program has produced a truly great conductor, Gustavo Dudamel, conductor of the Los Angeles Philharmonic, at the age of thirty.

It is the chief orchestra of 220 youth orchestras in Venezuela. There are 250,000 children enrolled in this program, started in 1975.

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Sistema

On 6 June 2007, the Inter-American Development Bank announced the granting of a US$150 million loan for the construction of seven regional centers of El Sistema throughout Venezuela. Many bankers within the IDB originally objected to the loan on the grounds that classical music is for the elite. In fact, the bank has conducted studies on the more than two million young people who have been educated in El Sistema which link participation in the program to improvements in school attendance and declines in juvenile delinquency. Weighing such benefits as a falloff in school drop-out rates and a decline in crime, the bank calculated that every dollar invested in El Sistema was reaping about $1.68 in social dividends.<9> Supported by the government, El Sistema has started to introduce its music program into the public-school curriculum, aiming to be in every school and to support 500,000 children by 2015.<11>

The project has been extended to the penal system. On 25 May 2008, Leidys Asuaje wrote for Venezuelan daily El Nacional: "The plan to humanize jails through music began eleven months ago under the tutelage of the Ministry of the Interior and Justice and FESNOJIV...."<12>



We don't spend money to save money later, as in preventive medical care. These people are spending money to give children something constructive to do with their lives.

Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra - Gustavo Dudamel conducting, Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony, 4th movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y4_oFxEBsg