NBC News: Debt negotiators 'very close' to deal

[IamK]

Source: MSNBC


WASHINGTON — Lawmakers were "very close" on Sunday to reaching a last-minute deal that could raise the U.S. debt ceiling by up to $2.8 trillion and assure financial markets that the United States will avoid default, according to NBC News.

Prospects that a significant package was within grasp brightened after Republican and Democratic leaders reopened stalled talks with the White House, and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said he was confident and optimistic.

"I think we've got a chance of getting there," he said on Saturday.

"The way this deal is shaped, Congress can avoid BOTH the tax and entitlement fights until 2013," NBC News' Chuck Todd said in a tweet.


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43949638/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

[peace frog]

1. Great

We're fucked. But we knew that.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. I find it hard to believe that the Tea Party/Republicans would give up

the revisiting the debt ceiling in six months and the balanced budget amendment mandate.

[IamK]

3. TP votes are not needed if the get both dem & repub votes.....

[Cool Logic]

10. Actually, I don't understand the objections to the balanced budget amendment mandate.

Why not pitch that question to the People and let them decide if they want it or not?

[mac56]

12. It'd have to be ratified by 2/3rds of the states

within seven years. IIRC. Not a quick fix, or a certain one.

[Cool Logic]

19. That's right...and that is why I don't understand the objections.

It is an inert issue that IMO, raises questions as to why anyone would fear the consequences of debating it.

*Nothing* is too dangerous to debate.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

27. Time is the issue.

It would take years, not weeks or months. Years.

[Cool Logic]

56. That's my point...It will take years...And there is no guarantee that it would pass.

I don't consider it to be a solution to the current state of our debt.

All I am saying is that I do not fear the debate.

[24601]

48. My recollection is the state requirement is ratification by 3/4

instead of 2/3.

There are two paths before that step - one is being passed by 2/3 of each house of Congress. Or, if 2/3 of the states call for a Constitutional Convention, the congressional route can be avoided completely - but ratification by 3/4 of the states is still required for whatever a convention proposes.

[sulphurdunn]

37. Yea. If a balanced

budget amendment means the chickenhawks can't wage war without raising taxes, count me in, but don't hold your breath.

[Cool Logic]

57. That is one of the primary considerations that debating the issue would entail.

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Trajan]

50. Well .... Because there are times that deficit spending is essential ...

For so called 'stimulus spending' .... Like the Works Projects Administration, for instance, during the Great Depression, which was introduced under the FDR Administration

Look up 'Keynesian Economic philosophy' ...

[Cool Logic]

58. I am aware of all of that and most of the drafts I have seen address your concerns.

Furthermore, I am not convinced that it would solve anything.

I just don't understand the resistance many have to letting the American People consider the issue.

[DFW]

55. You don't?

Such an amendment would tit the hands of the country's ability to respond to extraordinary circumstances.

When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and the Nazis declared war on us, it would not have been the best
time for Roosevelt to discuss with Congress whether or not to let America's infrastructure wither so we
could defeat a pressing world danger. Nor would it have done us any good to tell England, France and the
Pacific rim, "sorry guys, we can only afford to send you bagels and some small arms."

If Republicans wanted this for real, they would have brought it up last decade when they controlled the
White House, both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court. Not a peep. They only bring this up when a
Democrat is in the White House so they can whine about "tax and spend" Democrats for the 99th time. The
fact that under Cheneybush they were the world record-holding champions of tax and spend didn't seem to
bother any republicans at the time. Balanced budget? That's for Clinton and his boys. Cheney said, "deficits
don't matter." Now suddenly, when they are out of power, deficits DO matter?

Sorry, but gimme a break. I've heard THAT rerun one too many times to want to listen to it again.

[Cool Logic]

59. What you say is true...it is indeed political posturing by the Rs. Everyone can see that.

However, if the Congress were to pass it, what would happen?

That's right--nothing.

[jmowreader]

63. Because a balanced budget amendment is a bad idea

The one the teabaggers want basically says, "you will balance the budget by cutting everything except the military."

Forty-nine states have balanced budget laws. Forty-nine states are in trouble.

[Cool Logic]

65. Actually forty-nine states are not in trouble...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37516043

[jmowreader]

67. Okay, forty-eight states then...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=8016634&page=1

According to this, only Montana and North Dakota are not in trouble. Montana has four things going for it: it's very thinly populated, it has a good industrial base, its major highways are all federal roads (hence maintenance is subsidized by the federal government) and its governor is fantastic.

[Cool Logic]

70. Some states are better managed than others--at least a dozen or so.

Unemployment Rates

Minnesota - 6.7
Kansas - 6.6
Hawaii - 6.0
Iowa - 6.0
Virginia - 6.0
Wyoming - 5.9
Vermont - 5.5
Oklahoma - 5.3
New Hampshire - 4.9
South Dakota - 4.8
Nebraska - 4.1
North Dakota - 3.2

[jmowreader]

71. Unemployment rate doesn't equal "well managed state"

Budget shortfalls, all from http://www.sunshinereview.org:

Minnesota: $5 billion
Kansas: $510 million
Hawaii: $71.6 million
Iowa: $500-$700 million surplus
Virginia: $403 million surplus
Wyoming: $31.8 million
Vermont: $150 million
Oklahoma: $500 million
New Hampshire: $63 million surplus
South Dakota: used spending cuts to eliminate $127 million deficit; these cuts were to government agencies, Medicaid, education and public broadcasting
Nebraska: $751 million
North Dakota: no budget shortfall

[Cool Logic]

69. .

[totodeinhere]

18. Why not? They are getting almost everything they want. Taxes or even closing loopholes have been put

off the table. Even the craziest of the Tea Party congresspeople know that a balanced budget amendment doesn't have a chance. They are pushing that just for show. They have already won. Obama has accepted their narrative that we need deep budget cuts and "reforms" in SS and Medicare.

[cstanleytech]

46. The tea party ones dont matter, what matters is the rest of the republicans

and them growing a pair and learning to stand up to the tea party idiots who dont understand that in politics you cant always get your own way and that you have to learn to compromise.

[bamacrat]

4. $2.8 Trillion is nice but not nearly enough.

That will get us by for what a year, maybe two? They shouldn't put an exact amount for the increase. What should be/have been done is come up with a rational deficit reduction, tax restructure and infrastructure plan for the next 20 years starting in 2013 I suppose and see what the amount for the debt ceiling needs to be, then set it at that. This would hold lawmakers accountable for their plans because we would effectively have a salary cap over 20 years, barring anything catastrophic of course. It would also restore confidence in our financial markets, job markets and on the global market. This fight over the debt ceiling is doing nothing but further destroying our credibility with the world. Even if the get it passed we may be right back here in a couple years and before long the world will stop caring and we will fade into obscurity as another great power that fell because of political bickering and greed.

[plumbob]

23. THEN could we bring the troops home from everywhere and concentrate

on decent lives for our citizens?

I really could not care less about being a great power - nothing great about this kleptocracy, and I'm regretful about bringing children into it. But really, from the 60s, who could have foreseen the great heaving immoral legal theft machine this country has become?

[customerserviceguy]

41. I have a feeling that they've miscalculated

on the amount needed to be 'safe' from having to deal with this until after the election. If interest rates go up as a result of damage already done, and the economy goes into a double dip that even the economists can find (it never left the single dip for a large part of our country), then projected revenues for the next year and a half will be down.

We might be fighting this battle just as the election is upon us with full force, and the Repukes have chosen a nominee. If that's Mitt, then he gets to strut around above the fray without having to make any hard decisions, and if it's Bachmann, then the tea partiers will control the agenda even more than they appear to right now.

[Union Thug]

5. Manufactured crisis ends with another democratic lunge to the right

The story is so common that its become a hackneyed. I guess Nader was right.

[mazzarro]

44. What essentially consitute the budget?

When RW politicians and talking heads say that entitlements make up 2/3 of the budget, are they excluding the defense from the budget? And why are democrats not challenging this claim that entitlements make up the largest portion of the budget if this is not true?

[Igel]

60. 2010 budget expenses

#1: Social Security, 19.6%

#2: DOD, 18.7%

#3: Unemployment, 16.1%

#4: Medicare, 12.8%

#5: Medicaid/SCHIP, 8.2%

#6: Interest on national debt, 4.6%

#1, 3, 4, 5 are "entitlements" and total 56.7% of the total budget. There are other entitlements scattered about in there, too.

I haven't tried to find #s for this year.

There are some tricks we like. We pull out everything DOD related and lump them under "military spending," including interest on the portion of the debt we ascribe to the military (making that portion as high as possible) while making sure that all health/human expenses remain fragmented, thus smaller. So nursing home benefits for the VA is military because of some sort of taint, but we make sure to try to remove any administrative expenses from Medicare to keep Medicare spending 'pure.' It's a cynical shell game to make one number as big as possible by any means and the other as small as possible by any means.

We like focusing on the "discretionary" versus "non-discretionary" spending distinction, in which "non-discretionary" is set by law. Of course, Congress wrote the law and could just as easily revise it to void all non-discretionary spending. In other words, non-discretionary spending is also discretionary, but differently discretionary. Just because Congress can change it with a simple majority doesn't mean that it's under Congress' control.

If you do the lumping and splitting just right, you can show that we really spend very little on health and human services. Of course, it requires first ignoring 57% of the budget, but that's a small price to pay for showing obvious truths like "most of the budget" is completely different from "the majority of the budget."

[riverwalker]

6. Todd tweets

chucktodd Tweets last hour

VP Biden just pulled into the WH. If they are as close to a deal as it appears, bet on lunchtime POTUS announcement
50 minutes ago

The last sticking point before the deal is announced: the "balance" on the trigger regarding defense.

Schumer is talking up the aspect of the deal that got WH to sign off on it: threat of tough defense cuts in lieu of a tax trigger.
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Important message Schumer appears to be sending, the fight is over even if he doesn't love it.
Schumer won't talk too many details this morning but does describe the mood as "relief"

It's probably going to take more Republicans than Democrats to pass this compromise in the House.

The behind-the-scenes "short-hand" spin I'm hearing: GOPers say this deal is essentially "Boehner"; Dems say it's essentially "Reid"+

[tigereye]

16. well, they knew they had to come to some type of compro-

mise, otherwise the alleged TP economic/ budgetary concerns would look rather silly as they push the nation into further economic disarray. Don't these folks know anything about world-wide economics and the effects of interest rates on bonds, and all that stuff... :shrug:


husband sez "after a month of mindless blather, they do what they were going to have to do anyway."

[Altoid_Cyclist]

7. We better start stretching so that we can grab our ankles.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I feel like a government mandated colonoscopy is about to take place on the bottom 98% of Americans.

What a freaking debacle.

[Faygo Kid]

26. +1

That's exactly what's coming.

[awoke_in_2003]

32. BOHICA. nt

[Scottybeamer70]

8. I guess they have finally come to an agreement on how much

they can take from the poor to give to the rich. That's what it has been about from the beginning.

[GOPBasher]

9. I'm probably the only one on DU who thinks this is a decent deal.

I've been very critical of President Obama throughout this debt ceiling debate, but I really think this deal is good for now. A lot of the initial cuts of $1 trillion come from defense, and an expected draw down of US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. It doesn't touch entitlements. True, there is no new revenue, and that sucks, but we could have that fight in the 2012 election. For now, this avoids a catastrophic default. The 2012 election could be about taxes to protect SS, Medicare and Medicaid vs. keeping taxes this low and cutting the entitlements.

[DCBob]

14. I agree.. however it still remains to see how this all plays out.

This automatic cut mechanism is a bit scary.

[Lorien]

20. "Social programs" not "entitlements". Let's cease the adoption of GOP language and

talking points.

[plumbob]

24. Yes. people have paid in all their lives. It's a program.

Imagine putting something on layaway, making all the payments, then going to pick it up and being told, "Hey, you greedy bastard! Quit expecting something for nothing! Getouttahere before I call the cops!"


See? No confusion. Not getting what you paid for is theft and fraud and mis-, mal- or non-feasance of some sort.


But mostly it just shows greedy immoral motherfuckers are in charge. My apologies to actual motherfuckers, who have never done me a moment's harm.

[GOPBasher]

25. No, let's stop the bullshit connotation. An "entitlement" is NOT a bad thing. By definition:

you're "entitled" to something, so it's an "entitlement." If you spend your life paying into SS and Medicare, then you're "entitled" to receiving its benefits. In other words, you have a RIGHT to the benefits. That's not bad. It has somehow turned into negative connotation -- I have no idea where it came from, but that's what we have to fight, not basic language.

[KittyWampus]

31. Entitlements isn't GOP language. Learn some vocabulary. The Constitution ENTITLES us

to various Rights.

Buying a ticket ENTITLES us to a ride on the carousel.

Paying into S.S. during our working days ENTITLES us to benefits.

[No Elephants]

35. Name a Democrat in D.C. who called the programs "entitlements" prior to 2006.

BTW, we all know the dictionary definition of the word.

[sulphurdunn]

38. Human Rights are not entitlements.

They are rights. They are inalienable. You have them whether someone decides you are entitled to them or not. The Constitution does not confer them. It affirms them.

[KittyWampus]

49. When talking about Legalities and Citizenship and the Constitution they certainly are.

[sulphurdunn]

51. Human rights exidt independent

of legalities, citizenship or the Constitution.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The farther we move away from that through the endless hair-splitting legalisms of but, but and but, the closer we move toward absolute tyranny and the docile acceptance of serfdom.

[KittyWampus]

62. And if we lived in a country without a Constitution that specifically describes those Rights-

We would NOT HAVE THEM.

Damn, this is freaking basic stuff.

[sulphurdunn]

66. The Constituion didn't

give anyone rights. Rights don't exist on paper, nor are they conferred by governments. The Constitution merely affirmed the rights the American people had already asserted through armed revolution. At present, rights declared under the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th Amendments are routinely denied people by government, yet these amendments remain enshrined in the Constitution.

[totodeinhere]

53. Many good Democrats use the word "entitlements." I am not going to succumb to the word police.

I will use whatever terms I want and that makes me no less a progressive.

[Cool Logic]

68. Actually, entitlement, is not GOP language. It simply denotes mandatory spending...

as opposed to discretionary spending.

Discretionary spending is a spending category through which governments can spend through an appropriations act.<1> This spending is optional as part of fiscal policy, in contrast to entitlement programs for which funding is mandatory.<2>

[rayofreason]

34. You are not the only one. n/t

[Po_d Mainiac]

11. It's a smoke screen

Takes the focus away from Wall Street and the fuckers that killed the economy

[iamthebandfanman]

13. LAME, not a victory at all

he could raise the debt ceiling whenever he wants. this isnt a deal.
my understanding of this is the biggest difference between boners bill and reids is the debt ceiling wont be brought up again until after the next election. other than that, all the cuts and no revenue increases stay.

yay he gets a campaign victory and we get ???

exactly.

[Lorien]

21. Cuts with no revenue does nothing to slow the recession. nt

[cstanleytech]

47. No revenue "yet", the tax cuts are still due to run out

in 2012 unless they have included an extension to them.

[sulphurdunn]

40. Yea, and if people think

the Bush tax cuts will ever be allowed to expire I would refer them to one of the most sage sayings of the great American philosopher P.T. Barnum. :+

[hayrow]

15. As Gomer Pyle would say, "Surprise, Surprise, Surprise"!

Why pretend this is news? The fix was in from the start. Everyone played their roles. Let's see if Bernie Sanders votes for this. That will be the news in this whole charade.

[Name removed]

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[awoke_in_2003]

33. wow, just wow. nt

[suston96]

22. About that Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution.....

From a comment upthread....

A constitutional amendment proposal has to be passed by 2/3 of the House and 2/3 of the Senate and ratified by 3/4 of the states, within any time limit set by Congress, usually 7 years.

[LongTomH]

28. The 'Balanced Budget Amendment' talk is red meat for the Tea Party base.

It really doesn't have to have any contact with reality. Most of, even the new Tea Party types in Congress, have to know amending the Constitution is a difficult process.

[saras]

29. So we're looking at 3/4 of the country, and most of Congress, wasting seven years on it. Bad deal.

[suston96]

30. CNN host trying to pin down Mitch McConnell on just vote or actual passage.....

CNN host asks whether the demand is for a voye or actual passage - 2/3 of each chamber. He refused to comment.

[No Elephants]

36. Gee, what a surprise. Why do I feel we've been watching a reality show?

Will the commission's recommendrations be binding, or will we go Constitutional for a change?

[krabigirl]

39. Of course, all of this hoopla and drama was a complete joke.

They will certainly manage to raise the ceiling with a plan that screws us all in the end, oh and barely cuts the war spending,..

[totodeinhere]

52. Just you wait. Defense or war spending will go up, not down. Unfortunately, there is

no stopping that train.

[pasto76]

42. NBC is the only one reporting this, and not a single left-ish outlet is either

makes me think the corporate overlords are setting up a "we almoost had a deal, but then Obama ruined it" scenario to recover from the last two weeks of very bad republican PR

[texshelters]

43. Republicans win, the US suffers

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[Major Hogwash]

45. They are NOT close to a deal of any kind at all. Another case of premature emancipation by MSNBC.

I'm sure they thought it looked like there was going to be a wedding, but McConnell walked away from Reid, so Reid has egg on his face and now the Obama's puppy won't play with him!

In the meantime, Boehner is out playing golf!!
Probably.

[Plaid Adder]

54. I do not like this 12- person "committee."

I suppose this is the "supercongress" that that Huffington Post article was talking about.

Actually, I really don't like anything about this 'deal.' And I am real tired of being held hostage by lunatics, and being told "but we have to do this or the economy will collapse." First time was the bank bailout deal, and...oh! I know! Maybe the BANKS could bail the GOVERNMENT out!! Let's ask them!!!

Ha. Ha ha ha ha ha.

@#$!,

The Plaid Adder

[cstanleytech]

64. Its a two edged sword

as if they fail to come to a consensus then the trigger they were talking about comes into effect which means everything I believe across the board takes an equal cut including defense.

[Name removed]

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