Liberal Dem lawmaker vows to reject GOP, White House debt deal

[GrantDem]

Source: The Hill

One of the most liberal members of Congress vowed Sunday to reject an emerging debt-ceiling compromise among lawmakers and the White House, calling it a “cure as bad as the disease.”


Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/house/174593-liberal-dem-vows-to-reject-white-house-gop-deal-

[Change Happens]

1. Do we know names yet?

[bonnieS]

5. Se Grijalva statement on right hand side

of home page

[liberalmike27]

88. More than anything

This is an "Unemployment creation program." Just like the states who've cut back show that unemployment is higher, than states that have managed to wrangle a small increase in taxes on the rich, this will simply fire a lot more people, and give us no new jobs. All I can say is there are a lot of angry people, and whether he succeeds or not, he'd better be stepping the light fantastic FDR dance until election time," suggesting creation of jobs to replace those killed by concession to republicans.

I think it's important for him to paint the compromise as blackmail by republicans he had to do to keep the economy from crashing, and that he believed it would just create more unemployment, but his hands were tied. Then he pushes jobs programs, new highway spending, building power grids, pushing solar and wind power, anything and everything. Hell he could even do FDRs tree-panting CCC thing too. Trees use CO2, so that's good. Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, right up to the election. Make the republicans look like do-nothing refuseniks.

[midnight]

90. "Unemployment creation program" Seems to be a theme....

[lark]

94. You are such an optimist

Obama doesn't give a shit about any of those things, right now he's focusing on cutting SSI, Medicare & Medicaid. Obama has lost this country if he doesn't stack the deck with the upcoming commission of 12 with fire breathing liberals. Unfortunately, we alredy know who he'll pick - the Joe Lieberman, Claire McCaskills of the world who already want to cut the rug out from under working folks. Last time he put in a few token liberals and the group couldn't come to a consensus, this time he won't even bother with the tokens.

When faced with a choice between a real Repug and a fake, people will choose the real deal and Obama will go down.

[DLnyc]

2. Yet another 'negotiation' that goes backward.

-----
“We have made our bottom line clear for months: a final deal must strike a balance between cuts and revenue, and must not put all the burden on the working people of this country,” he said. “This deal fails those tests and many more.”
-----

I think we ended up further to the right than we started. Very original and creative form of 'negotiating'.

[William769]

3. K&R.

[MissDeeds]

4. K&R

[Syrinx]

6. (continued)

Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), the co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, said in a statement that progressive lawmakers and working families “were thrown under the bus” by a deal that “trades peoples' livelihoods for the votes of a few unappeasable right-wing radicals.” The result, he said, is as bad for the Democratic Party as it is for the country.

“We have given much and received nothing in return,” Grijalva said. “The lesson today is that Republicans can hold their breath long enough to get what they want. While I believe the country will not reward them for this in the long run, the damage has already been done.”

The proposal would cut spending by $1 trillion immediately and seek about $2 trillion more in deficit reduction later this year. Grijalva excoriated the White House for abandoning too much ground to the GOP, notably by excluding revenue raisers from the first phase of deficit reduction.

[Ken Burch]

37. Raul Grijalva stands with the people!

n/t.

[amborin]

81. does he? FDL says he voted FOR this, and only now opposes it

[loyalsister]

7. I'm glad these guys are talking

We need to have all of our voices represented during this as long as they are willing to prevent the worst possible scenario.

[russspeakeasy]

42. Were you awake when you wrote that?

The last thing you want are people who want to destroy your way of life talking with each other.

[loyalsister]

44. The CBC, Bernie Sanders, and other progressives

Did help air the bad parts of this deal. There are some really crappy parts.
I think the more aware people of POVs other than the tea party, the more they will think about who the real culprits are. The loyal opposition offers a lot to the debate.

[BNJMN]

58. +1

[blackbart99]

62. Are Sanders and Grijalva ready to fillibuster or...

just vote no. It has to be a fillibuster or this crap could pass. Force Obama to use the 14th.

[Bluenorthwest]

70. Learn things then speak. Grijalava is in the House, and in the

House, there is no such thing as a filibuster. Which has just the one 'l'.

[deacon_sephiroth]

78. but not courtesy

learn "things", but make sure courtesy is not one of them.

[loyalsister]

79. It's possible to speak out without being an obstructionist

much more productive, too.

[swilton]

8. Power to Grijalva

[Bluesbreaker]

9. I'm ready to open my wallet for these guys

No contributions or support for any Dems who vote for the debt deal.

I mean, really, it's like TP says, "So the purpose of the Super Committee is to slash entitlements so we can avoid the trigger which slashes entitlements?"

[styersc]

17. The Committee will give an opportunity to direct cuts but

progressives will have to be organized and focused to be effective.

We must cut loopholes for the rich, provide enticements masked in tax cuts for research and development for green technology and manufacturing, and the Bush tax cuts are dead for renewal.

Voice objection to this deal, then, vow to be an organized force in the upcoming debate and let's get organized. The Teabaggers are a small minority but they have raised hell. We are brighter, bigger and more importantly, our policies are better!!!!

This was a suprise attack from the GOP/Teabaggers- never has a debt ceiling bill been used for this sort of argument, but now we have seen it, we must prepare for the next battle. The work of the Super Committee is the next battle.

[creeksneakers2]

45. The Committee isn't going to cut loopholes for the rich

Boehner already more or less told Hannity and Limbaugh that Boehner and McConnell won't put anybody on the committee who presents any risk of voting for more taxes.

Boehner Power Point presentation on the deal also says:

NO TAX HIKES

"Requires baseline to be current law, effectively making it impossible for Joint Committee to raise taxes."

[earcandle]

85. Isn't it treason to NOT LEVY TAXES on everyone to pull out of this nosedive? I have never heard of

any agency, no business, nor household that could operate on
financing and to ignore the GAAP requirement to generate
operating income to pay bills.  Furthermore, it is stupid
because borrowing money raised the debt higher with interest
costs. Really dumb.  

And even more that that, what about the collusion between our
congress and this private organization called The Federal
Reserve, who we are borrowing from, and to whom we owe 44% of
our debt for this interest?  Who are the shareholders of The
Federal Reserve Bank?  If they are our WH and Congress
administrators and law makers, then this is a severe criminal
conflict of interest case and possible treason against the
people's public interest.  

How do we get out of the scams deeply embedded by the Murdock
News Corps that keep feeding the people lies and confusion. 
Social Security belongs to us and is not part of the general
fund, so to even include that like it is in the deficit
financing debacle is also fraud against the American people
and our treasury.

Didn't the Rosenbergs get electrocuted for treason against the
American people?  Don't we need to prosecute, not negotiate,
with people who drive propaganda to steal the public treasury
and default on the goods and services expended for the
American people? Are we made whole by the levy of tax revenue
on all people fairly so that we can prosper?   How did we get
such criminals and ass backwards management in our government
who will take us down with debt?  And how to we get them out? 
Even the justice department is full of criminals or bystanders
who allow crimes against the American people.

These republicans are planning manufacturing jobs for our
public.  That is so fucking backwards and 18th century.  We
are high tech people and we are on the cutting edge.  They do
not want to recognize us because we know we are privilege and
entitled, so they are stripping us down.  Our government and
unions wages are placeholders for correct and legal wage range
for jobs and when they destroy those wage levels, we will have
no place holder for our labor laws to strike out against. 
Dudes, I am not happy with any of this.  How do we stop them? 

[Bluesbreaker]

47. It wasn't a surprise

The Republicans do it all the time. It's their MO: Find something that is tradition, but not a rule, then use it hijack the legislative process.

The best example of this is the use of the filibuster, which was relatively rare, until Obama was elected. Now, any Democratic bill must have 60 votes. Clearly a violation of SOP, but, hey, no rules were broken.

Almost unnoticed in all the flurry over the debt debate is the GOP holding the FAA hostage. No money unless the rules are changed to bust the unions in the agency. So, we have a semi-functional agency, half shut down.

Prediction: Sometime between now and the end of 2012 there will be some critical piece of legislation that Obama must see passed. Republicans will hold that legislation hostage and demand that he extend the Bush tax cuts as a bargain.

[jerryster]

75. Your prediction is spot on!

There is NO WAY the RepubliKochs are going to sit still and let those cuts expire without a fight. They are absolutely planning to do just what you say, especially if they get control of the Senate and retain control of the House. I just made myself sick.

[No Elephants]

60. Sadly, until the DNC and big donors open their wallets to liberals,

and the popular Party stars support them, liberals in Washington and those of us who support them will continue to have a very uphill fight.

And, if re-elected, about all they can do is vote aye or nay. The House Progressive (hate that word) Caucus is down to 77 members and Sanders and maybe Franken are about the only liberals in the Senate, and about all they can do is vote aye or nay as well. And that's it for D.C. liberals, unless you count Ginsburg on the SCOTUS.

I'm not sure what we do next.

However, I do not mean to discourage you from supporting people like Grijalva. I intend to do the same. (I am fortunate in that my rep is Mike Capuano, who voted with Ted Kennedy against the Patriot Act and the Iraq War and is one of the members suing Obama over ignoring Congress re: Libya.) They certainly deserve our support.

[harun]

10. Obama, McConnell and Boehner in a room together, what could possibly go wrong?

[russspeakeasy]

12. Damn it must smell like hell in that room.

[tcaudilllg]

11. Get as many as you can.

And as for the rest, they'd better plan retirement.

[tsuki]

13. The US defaults on its workers.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mazzarro]

36. Hmmm! Amen here -- n/t

[TBF]

15. Sanders comments:

"The Republicans have been absolutely determined to make certain that the rich and large corporations not contribute one penny for deficit reduction, and that all of the sacrifice comes from the middle class and working families," said Sanders, who mentioned cuts in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other programs.

"I cannot support legislation like the Reid proposal which balances the budget on the backs of struggling Americans while not requiring one penny of sacrifice from the wealthiest people in our country. That is not only grotesquely immoral, it is bad economic policy," Sanders said.

Bravo!

[indepat]

30. Grotesquely immoral times 10 to the 29th power

;) :patriot:

[kestrel91316]

48. Bernie is one of the few who understands that he works for THE PEOPLE.

[BNJMN]

56. Bernie Sanders isn't beholden to the DNC for campaign monies. [nt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee#DNC_fund-raising
"Beware, all ye who enter..."

[SoapBox]

16. Bravo! And I'll be damned if I'll support Dems that agree to this deal, by taking it out on seniors

and those AMERICANS that need help.

Fuck the ENTITLEMENTS that Big Industry, Big OIL, Big Pharma get.

AND...the military! What a HOG that thing is! Where is that in the overall conversation???

[placton]

18. yawn

wont make a dif - the Obamanation has dealt us out again

[INdemo]

19. Ok folks .....How many here still support Obama for 2012

have you had enough of this Republican??

[primavera]

27. Crickets chirping - n/t

[bjobotts]

31. I do, The SC depends on it and you don't even KNOW what his accomplishments have been so far

[bjobotts]

32. Your being ruled by expectations that no one could get done at present.Shallow thinking

[Heathen57]

65. Actually, having Obama in there is

just like having a Rethuglican as president. The Justices that are there for the Conservatives will just hold out until after 2012. If Obama gets re-elected, He won't put a progressive in there for fear of the Republicans.

This deal they have cooked up has about done it for me. He forgot just who put him in the White House. Maybe a primary opponent would be a great thing. He just might wake up to the fact his base wasn't and isn't the top 1%'ers or the Republicans.

[primavera]

76. A primary opponent would be great, but...

... I think we need to be honest that our primary system doesn't function when an incumbent president is seeking re-election. The entire party apparatus works for the incumbent. Has an incumbent president seeking re-election ever faced a serious primary challenge? If it weren't for two term limits, the party apparatus would cheerfully keep giving voters the same single choice, election after election, until that candidate either retired or died.

[emilyg]

39. I did not vote for

him and day by day am glad I didn't.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

49. There's nobody better on the horizon. Doesn't speak well of the party.

[BNJMN]

55. Who decides which candidates will run to begin with? Answer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Wasserman_Schultz#Chair_of_the_Democratic_National_Committee

It's how elections are 'stolen' before you even get a chance to vote in a primary. DINOs feeding DINOs. Around and around she goes...these people are *appointed* ...NOT elected. And they decide who gets the war-chest funds from the all powerful Democratic Party!

[grahamhgreen]

93. Any of the WI 14; Feingold/Grayson; Kucinich; DeFazio; John Lewis; Grijalva; a sprig of arugala

[Enthusiast]

61. "Oh, he had to do it"

"Those mean Republicans made him do it. Poor abused Obama."

[oldbanjo]

67. I will.

he is the only one that is trying to help the poor, older and retired people in this Country. The reason he is having these problems in the first place is that people over reacted without thinking out their decision to put these ass**les in office. Obama has done a lot already that has helped poor and sick people like it or not. HE HAS MY VOTE.

[snooper2]

69. I'm in Texas not OK, but I've still got Obama's back

[NorthCarolina]

71. I never wanted Obama from the get go. I was for Kucinich in 08. nt

[leftyohiolib]

72. i will stll support him. dont like everything he's done but i will not sit it out or

vote repube.the supreme court is more important than any other issue

[Jester Messiah]

82. Not "support", but "will probably settle for, absent a better option."

Hell, if it weren't for SCOTUS nominations I might just sit the next election out entirely. Then again, I'd rather have a limp noodle like Obama in office than a raging idiot like Bachmann or Palin. I guess it comes down to how bad the alternative is.

[INdemo]

20. Did anyone doubt that Obama would cave to Republicans?

Would some one please tell me how a so called Democrat negotiates with Rpublican leaders and leaves Democratic leaders out of the conversation..

We need to organize tomorrow to draft a challenger against Obama.

[unkachuck]

29. " Did anyone doubt that Obama would cave to Republicans?"

....I didn't because Obama always walks on political egg-shells and only worries about legacy....

....he thinks it's 1947 and he's Jackie Robinson....

[SleeplessinSoCal]

50. There's a lot more in the details than I first thought. Now the fight over taxes going into 2012

[thereismore]

77. Yes, but it could be a good thing. People will have a chance to vote for candidates who

support raising taxes on the rich. Could be a reverse of 2010.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

95. That seems to be the thinking from the Obama circle. But they've been wrong about the T people.

[ijiji]

64. well said nt

[INdemo]

21. duplicate

[INdemo]

22. Duplicate

[polichick]

23. He's right, the prez should've demanded a clean bill all along...

The president is not who he pretended to be during the campaign - he's far to the right of that guy.

[bjobotts]

33. He did demand a 'clean bill' and it was voted down in the House.Polls manipulated by repubs to get c

crisis going.

[polichick]

38. He should have said he'd veto anything but a clean bill and then gone on...

...with other business - SHOWN that he wouldn't waver.

[Divine Discontent]

53. thank you! That's the honest truth! hearing the president talking this evening about how there's

still cuts needed that have to be discussed in regards to entitlements.... that nauseated me.

Whenever I get a slight urge to defend him from the knuckedraggers, he goes and says things that I'd only expect a right-wing Senator like Lindsey Graham say!

We'll find out around Thanksgiving if we are going to be seeing a huge push away from the Democratic party from liberals in regards to entitlement cuts in the 2nd portion of this debt limit increase that has to be resolved later (if it even gets voted through tomorrow)

[11 Bravo]

24. Cool, so does Teabagger Utah Senator Mike Lee.

What to do, what to do?

[Xtraneous]

25. Face it, the rich have won.

This is all a game to throw the country more to the right of hell. Neanderthal politics enabled by the supposed "opposing" party. It is not about compromise, it is about greed and hopelessness. As long as this game is debated as serious, the more it will work.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

26. We must write this man and let him know we approve! nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

28. I think this is his fax: fax [phone] nt

[trud]

46. email don't fax

Send email, don't use use his and the planet's paper.

[bjobotts]

34. It should be a clean bill with nothing attached, ever.Voted down by House already

[cstanleytech]

35. It should be but it wont be, this is after all politics.

[russspeakeasy]

40. "Vows to"...yeah right...I'll take that to the bank.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bertman]

43. I hate to bring this up, but it's true. Grijalva folded on the Healthcare Deform and he'll

fold again on this. He and the so-called "Progressive Caucus" are cowards who love their titles and their perks more than they love their country and the people who put them there.

The party has left the people behind. The rich who control the levers of the Democratic party are only in it for themselves. They say "JUMP" and President Obama and the Democratic Senators and Reps ask "How high?"

All of this made-up-for-the-media high drama was for one thing and one thing only. To sell out the American working class.

[amborin]

80. Grijalva folded on this, too, according to FDL

[alp227]

51. On 5/31, a clean debt bill overwhelmingly failed in the house

House Rejects Clean Vote to Raise Debt Ceiling (ABC News' The Note blog):

The measure, which failed by a vote of 97-318 with seven members voting present, stated that “the Congress finds that the President’s budget proposal, Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2012, necessitates an increase in the statutory debt limit of $2,406,000,000,000,” and would have raised the debt limit to $16.7 trillion.

All 236 Republicans voted against the increase - joined by 82 Democrats. 97 Democrats voted yes for a debt limit increase, while 7 Democrats voted present.

I recalled that there was a vote for a simple debt ceiling raise and found this. Anyway if Congress can't stop fighting there'll be either a default or executive order debt limit increase. Throughout this excessive, unnecessary debate, the Democrats have always bore the burden of needing to negotiate and listen to the other side. The lesson learned here is that we need to support progressive candidates for Congress to prevent such hostile takeovers from the tea party. As I've said before, change begins with Congress, and maybe your state legislatures and local governments too.

[BNJMN]

52. Suspending judgement until I get a clearer view of what was done.

But GodDAMN, I'm feeling depressed.
Cannot believe I suffered through 8 years of Bush...FOR THIS!!

[Yon_Yonson]

66. WE ALL suffered through 8 years of bush ... for this!

The only way to fight back is call a nation wide general strike, hit them in their pocketbooks and make them bleed green. We all have to get on the picket line, stand together WE THE PEOPLE and take our government back from these NEOCON slugs.

:grr:

[BNJMN]

54. "...by demonstrating that raw extortion works and carries no political cost, it will...."

"...by demonstrating that raw extortion works and carries no political cost, it will take America a long way down the road to banana-republic status."

The President Surrenders
By PAUL KRUGMAN
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/opinion/the-president-surrenders-on-debt-ceiling.html?src=ISMR_AP_LO_MST_FB

Ugg, this doesn't look good to me.

[jeanmarc]

57. I've never felt so ashamed and so indifferent

I am represented by no one in this White House.

Keynesian economics must be smirked at by those that have access to the White House.

Giving a damn about our social net must be a sin in this White House.

I can understand a little bit of fatigue. I can't remember any President going through the sort of problems and unneeded roadblocks that Obama has gone through, and the media does little to cover it.

But I can't understand this nonsense crisis when we have really double digit unemployment. My sister is about to join the 99ers. This Congress and this President have lost focus. We care about jobs. Cutting the gov't at the federal level will do the same thing as it has done at the state level. It will destroy jobs and sink us further into the quagmire.

I can't believe we and I mean this forum, can't see it as a whole, rather than as a split group.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PatrynXX]

59. after watching the star trek movies (cept the remake) on BD for over a month

(rentals) I actually though the Republicans are acting like the borg... "they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. "


Resistance is Futile?

[ijiji]

63. k&r

[lunasun]

73. a “sugar-coated Satan sandwich.”

The leader of the Congressional Black Caucus, Rep. Emmanuel Cleaver, has called the legislation a “sugar-coated Satan sandwich.” Unfortunately, House Democrats don’t count, as they are in the minority.

Super Congess coming now 3 pukes on it will be tea party for sure you betcha

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[colsohlibgal]

83. Let's Hope He Sticks To It

This is going to be fascinating in kind of a train wreck kind of way. The tea party types live in some kind of alternate universe where cluelessness rules. For them to think this is too liberal of a deal shows that they are nuts.

Of course I also think Obama defenders have their own alternate universe. They have been lined up on Stephanie Miller's show this morning and she picks them because she too is a defender.....it's clear that there is probably nothing Obama could do or not do to alienate them, he could invade Canada and legalize heroin in grade school and they would rationalize it. What drives me most crazy is them saying "how about the health care bill" when that was a cop out from him. Also they say he doesn't have a majority but he sure had one for 4 years, more than Bush ever had.

[orbitalman]

84. K and R

[earcandle]

86. I have never heard of

any agency, no business, nor household that could operate on
financing and to ignore the GAAP requirement to generate
operating income to pay bills. Furthermore, it is stupid
because borrowing money raised the debt higher with interest
costs. Really dumb.

And even more that that, what about the collusion between our
congress and this private organization called The Federal
Reserve, who we are borrowing from, and to whom we owe 44% of
our debt for this interest? Who are the shareholders of The
Federal Reserve Bank? If they are our WH and Congress
administrators and law makers, then this is a severe criminal
conflict of interest case and possible treason against the
people's public interest.

How do we get out of the scams deeply embedded by the Murdock
News Corps that keep feeding the people lies and confusion.
Social Security belongs to us and is not part of the general
fund, so to even include that like it is in the deficit
financing debacle is also fraud against the American people
and our treasury.

Didn't the Rosenbergs get electrocuted for treason against
the American people? Don't we need to prosecute, not
negotiate, with people who drive propaganda to steal the
public treasury and default on the goods and services
expended for the American people? Are we made whole by the
levy of tax revenue on all people fairly so that we can
prosper? How did we get such criminals and ass backwards
management in our government who will take us down with debt?
And how to we get them out? Even the justice department is
full of criminals or bystanders who allow crimes against the
American people.

These republicans are planning manufacturing jobs for our
public. That is so fucking backwards and 18th century. We
are high tech people and we are on the cutting edge. They do
not want to recognize us because we know we are privilege and
entitled, so they are stripping us down. Our government and
unions wages are placeholders for correct and legal wage
range for jobs and when they destroy those wage levels, we
will have no place holder for our labor laws to strike out
against. Dudes, I am not happy with any of this. How do we
stop them?

[urbuddha]

87. Obama has thrown us all under the bus...

The proposed 'compromise' on the Debt Ceiling Crisis stinks on every level...Obama is giving away the entire store to the Repubs, who smelled blood, capitalizing on Obama's fatal weakness--his inability to stand his ground, & act w/courage when faced w/big challenges...He's throwing us under the bus, to court Independents for his reelection...I'm officially over him, & will write-in Nancy Pelosi now. Shame

[Melinda]

91. Outstanding post.

:fistbump:

[humbled_opinion]

89. Next up the Budget....

The teabags are going to attack any budget and we will be right back here giving in to the right by cutting stuff out of the FY 2012 budget. It's over Obama and America lose, Pukes and the RICH win.

[pam4water]

92. I wish they had a chance to succeed but they don't.

[n0nesuch]

96. Where do I send my apology to Hillary?