Spain will never again turn back on UN, says new defence minister

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040419/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_spain_un&cid=1514&ncid=1480

MADRID (AFP) - Spain's new defence minister said that his country would never again "turn its back" on the UN or the Spanish people, an allusion to the sending of troops to Iraq (news - web sites) last year by the ousted conservative government.

"We will never again turn our back on the United Nations (news - web sites)," said Jose Bono.


"Nor will we turn our backs on Spaniards -- be they rightwing or leftwing -- who neither understand nor accept the presence of Spanish troops in Iraq," he said.


"One cannot act against the Spanish people," said Bono, alluding to the decision by former conservative prime minister Jose Maria Aznar to send Spanish forces to Iraq in the teeth of massive popular opposition last August.

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[Capt_Nemo]

1. Jose Bono is the guy that best described Tony Blair:

"Un gilipollas integral" (an absolute dickhead)

[David__77]

2. They are upholding the popular will.

If only Blair and other leaders would do the same.

[rjbcar27]

3. I think you'll find a majority of the UK population

would be against pulling our troops out right now.

[Capt_Nemo]

4. Yeah, but that majority are the very same that can't bring up to

themselves and realize that Blair is a war criminal. It is called denial...

[rjbcar27]

6. Wrong.

They are the same majority that realise that pulling out now would be disasterous.

[Capt_Nemo]

7. some things just can't be fixed like environmental disasters

and like them this war's consequences cannot be minimized by the
presence there of the very same troops that caused the disaster.
But I would be much happy if you could prove me wrong...

[rjbcar27]

8. Care to offer an alternative?

[Capt_Nemo]

10. No alternatives. The dammage is done. Now the whole

world will have to live with it, troops or no troops.

Iraqis will sort it out among themselves when the troops leave,
be it in a month or in 10 years, Remember Afghanistan?

The only thing that can be done is to hold accountable those responsible
for this disaster.

edit: have to go now, discuss this later.

[KansDem]

13. Offer up Bush and his cohorts...

Seriously, give the Iraqis Bush and his henchmen. It might not solve everything, but offer them up as a "peace proposal." It might help to placate some concerns and lead to healing...

[stepnw1f]

25. Iraqis will sort it out among themselves

Good point!

[NNN0LHI]

11. Disastrous for who? BP and the other British corporations raping Iraq? n/t

[rjbcar27]

14. No, for the people of Iraq

who would once again have been deserted and left in the hands of yet another tin-pot dictator.

Like it or lump it we've got to make it work, and pulling out now will not acheive that.

[NNN0LHI]

15. Oh bullshit

Who the hell do you think you are talking to here? That is the same line of crap I listened to for a decade during the Vietnam war too. Our government supported and did business with the last tin-pot dictator in Iraq. Did you forget that already? Don't tell me how we have to stay for the Iraqis sake when you know as well as I do that is absurd. The best thing we can do is pay for all the shit we blew up and haul our asses out of there pronto. They have suffered enough under the control of yours and my governments.

Don

[rjbcar27]

17. Fair enough Don

We disagree.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. Even your plan has problems

Pay who? It's not as if there's a bank account marked 'Iraq' that you know will get used to fix the Iraqi infrastructure. We could promise to donate the money through the UN, but it couldn't be used until someone has the country under control. You know it would be chaos until then if all foreign soldiers were pulled out at once. A foreign presence in the country really can help till then - it would help the most if it included large numbers of Arab-speaking soldiers and police, under the UN or the League of Arab States, perhaps.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Its not hard to start a bank account. I opened one last week

It took all of 5 minutes. Who gets the money you ask? The eventual government of Iraq after we leave gets the reconstruction money whoever that ends up being. No problems at all.

And no, I don't know Iraq would be chaos after we leave either. Chimpboy keeps saying that and some actually believe it. But I don't. Though it is chaos right now with us there.

Don

[truthspeaker]

16. which tin-pot dictator? Paul Bremer?

[saigon68]

23. Disastrous for who?

[David__77]

9. I"m curious how a referendum, if such a thing were held, would turn out.

I'm not so sure that continued presence would be supported in the end. It is true, aide from this question, that the British people didn't want them to go in the first place.

[fedsron2us]

21. The introduction of conscription might change their minds

There is nothing like having your arse on the line to concentrate the mind. Most people assume this is not likely to happen but they do not seem to understand how overstretched the British army has become. Blair has committed troops to more theatres of miltary activity than any British Prime Minister since the time of Suez. Even though regular soldiers tours of duty are getting longer and longer, the army is still having to rely on reservist and territorial call ups to make the numbers. Grave concerns were expressed about this situation by the military before the invasion of Iraq commenced. As usual these misgivings were ignored by the idiot politicians who love to will ends but baulk at providing the means. This is hardly suprising considering most of them have never heard a shot fired in anger.

The British commanders in Basra have made no secret of their alarm at the way the situation in Iraq has been handled by the CPA. They know that they can only sustain their position in the south by not alienating mainstream Shia opininion. The following quotation appeared in the Daily Telegraph

- ' the commander of British troops in southern Iraq, Brig Nick Carter, admitted that he would be powerless to prevent the overthrow of Coalition forces if the Shia majority in Basra rose up in rebellion. Brig Carter, of the 20 Armoured Brigade, who has been in Iraq for four months, said British forces would stay in Basra with the consent of local Shia leaders, or not at all. Last month, 14 British soldiers were injured in Basra, at least three seriously, when they came under attack from demonstrators armed with petrol bombs, rocks and a grenade. "A crowd of 150,000 people at the gates of this barracks would be the end of this, as far as I'm concerned," Brig Carter said. "There would be absolutely nothing I could do about that . . ." During an interview in Basra last week Brig Carter acknowledged that the Coalition's presence in southern Iraq was entirely dependent on the goodwill of the local Shia Muslim leader, Sayid Ali al-Safi al-Musawi. He represents Ayatollah Sistani, Iraq's leading Shia cleric. "The moment that Sayid Ali says, 'We don't want the Coalition here', we might as well go home," Brig Carter said. ' -

If the CPA is stupid enough to send US troops into Najaf and Kabala then the Brigadier and his men had better start packing their bags for Blighty now.

[the Kelly Gang]

5. lucky Spain..a PM who is keeping his promises

[Endangered Specie]

12. Who would have thought Spain would join the 21st century...

before we did.

[Larkspur]

20. Zapatero for US President!

Here's a guy who is not nuance about his position on the Iraq war and he's keeping his campaign promise.

Viva Zapatero!

[Just Me]

22. It is shameful how the US weakened the UN,...

,...the UN will only be as strong as its constituent members. It should toss out the veto power and operate more democratically. Of course, the power-mongers will never go for that.

[0007]

24. Good for Spain