Italy seizes 'US-bound' arms haul

[Oggy]

"Police in southern Italy say they have seized a large illegal arms shipment from Romania destined for the US.
Customs officers in the port of Gioia Tauro, in Calabria, discovered 7,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles after noting irregularities in the documentation.

The cargo, estimated to be worth some 6m euros (£3.9m, $7.15m), was declared as arms for civilian, not military, use."
<snip>

More at:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3642245.stm

Plenty for Tin Hats to speculate about here I think. What were these for I wonder?

[whistle]

1. Uhmmm, NRA members starting a mail order business perhaps...

:freak:

[Ganja Ninja]

4. Gun Dealers/Distributors jumping the gun and

anticipating the ban on assault weapons being lifted? I would expect for Bush to try to lift the ban before the election.

[Gman]

12. That's exactly what it is...

they're expecting the AWB to be lifted.

[NickB79]

27. Even after the AWB is lifted

(which it will be), fully automatic weapons like true AK-47's will still be illegal under the 1934 gun control law. Remember, the AWB never even mentioned fully automatic weapons, but mainly just things such as pistol grips and 30-rd magazines.

You can still legally import and purchase AK-clones here in the US for cheap as long as they conform to the AWB specifications. Here is good quality model (except for the crappy cut-down stock) for sale: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=5429074. It can still be legally sold with the high-capacity magazines as long as the magazines were produced and imported before 1994; the rifles themselves can still be imported new to this day with 10-rd magazines however.

[DoNotRefill]

40. The guns pictured are not covered by the AW ban.

They have folding stocks. Import of rifles with folding stocks was banned not by the AW ban, but rather by Bush the First, by executive fiat, in 1989.

That is, of course, assuming that they were semi-automatic, not fully automatic. If they are fully automatic, they were banned from import in 1986 under Reagan.

Who says that the Republicans are "gun friendly"?

[maddezmom]

2. hmmm

American Company......Backwater Security? :shrug:

[leanings]

3. Wonder what was illegal about them?

Full-autos, maybe? Weird.

[maddezmom]

5. perhaps it's illegal against Italian law

ARMS: OVER 8000 KALASHNIKOV SEIZED IN GIOIA TAURO
(AGI) – Gioia Tauro (Reggio Calabria), Italy, Apr. 20 – Tax police and customs officers seized over 8000 Kalashnikov light machine guns in the Gioia Tauro port. Firerms were imported in Italy illegally by the MS Adnan Bayraktar, coming from Costanza in Romania. According to the bills of lading, the firearms were directed in Georgia in the United States.
http://www.agi.it/english/news.pl?doc=200404201232-1064-RT1-CRO-0-NF11&page=0&id=agionline-eng.oggitalia

[Norquist Nemesis]

6. Zell's getting desparate

"According to the bills of lading, the firearms were directed in Georgia in the United States."

Either that or they're getting ready to do the right thing and run him out of town.

[BostonTeaParty04]

9. Maybe they just mixed up the two Georgias?????

8000 assault weapons.. for civilians.

Geeze, I hope it was someone on OUR side... but I know it isn't...

[yellowcanine]

26. Is Zell Miller starting a militia in case Kerry wins?

Never to late to revive "The Lost Cause".

[0007]

7. Maybe they had a bayonet lug on 'em?

I wish BBC would have told us the destination of these weapons here in the U.S. - just the state would have been good enough.

[maddezmom]

8. BBC say destination was New York

and AGI says Georgia
http://www.agi.it/english/news.pl?doc=200404201232-1064-RT1-CRO-0-NF11&page=0&id=agionline-eng.oggitalia

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. BBC report says bayonets were included

and 'reloading devices', whatever that means.

[Kinkistyle]

10. Iraq is like the Old West

Lots of guns, posses, killing and not much law. Not surprised that all sorts of black markets in contraban is sprouting up there. Waiting for transplantable human organs.

[Zhade]

43. Er, what does this story have to do with Iraq?

NT!

[UpInArms]

11. WTF?

The receiver of the cargo is an American company.

Although some states allow the purchase of Kalashnikov rifles by collectors, the sheer number of the guns has prompted a judicial inquiry into whether they were in fact destined for military use.

Wish it had named the "American" company. This is pretty weird stuff (understatement).

[maddezmom]

13. notice media blackout,,,only BBC and AGI

hmmmm, strange indeed. If the US had discovered 7,000 guns it would be all over the news.

[EV1Ltimm]

14. probably blackwater...

their "security personnel" are most likely bitching about the sand in their ar-15s and are demanding the more robust ak-47.

[leanings]

18. I think if there's one thing in Iraq

that's not in short supply, it's AKs.

[DoNotRefill]

41. Not really....

apparently, Saddam ordered a bunch of guns to be sabotaged by having part of the barrels removed in places where the damage could not be seen until the gun was fired and it exploded. He was probably trying to increase casualties among US souvenir seekers.

[The Stranger]

16. "Tin Foil Hats"? The U.S. doesn't manufacture Kalashnikov rifles or use

them for its own armed forces. Give me a break with the "tin foil hats" bit.

[Minstrel Boy]

20. I guess it didn't happen then?

Or perhaps it did, and you have a benign explanation for why a US company was smuggling thousands of Kalashnikovs into the country, and why it's news only fit for the foreign media.

[rinsd]

33. Ahhhhhhhh

There is a thing called the black market.

Cigarettes, drugs, guns......

[The Stranger]

36. I think we are in agreement.

I don't think it is conspiratorial to see the U.S. actions as questionable given the source of the guns and the fact that the U.S. was shipping someone else's guns.

[mulethree]

21. they don't use AK's in training?

Like in how to use the enemies weapons if you lose/break your own?

Probably for arming some Venezuelan "rebels" or such

[The Stranger]

37. I believe they at one time purchased these weapons for the Contras.

[DoNotRefill]

42. actually, there are some small kalishnikov manufacturers in the US...

due to the various import bans.

[John_H]

17. TO: George C/O: Acme Imports Inc., Langly. VA n/t

[leanings]

19. Reuters

http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=853663&tw=wn_wire_story

These could have just been Romanian SAR semi-auto AK knockoffs. Those are sold all over the place. Maybe Italian customs just got in a knot over paperwork descrepancies. I doubt a US company would be importing that many full-auto for-real Kalashs. Real AKs are still going to be illegal even after the ban expires. Maybe they were planning on using them for parts kits? Strange.

Keeping an eye on this one, see how it turns out.

[maddezmom]

22. According to the travel documents, the arms belong to a large U.S. company

According to the travel documents, According to the travel documents, the arms belong to a large U.S. company with headquarters in the state of Georgia.


Wonder if we'll ever know...:shrug:

[Minstrel Boy]

23. Bay of Pigs II, anybody?

Sounds like a nice cachment to help "freedom fighters" in Venezuela, Cuba, take your pick.

[maddezmom]

24. Fort Benning GA?

can't believe I just posted that, but with the current chimp in chief one never knows.

[AP]

35. CNN is raising an army? Now I've heard it all!

Would that almost be the definition of fascism?

[maddezmom]

25. another link:

`SNIP`
The weapons had been modified and were declared as being destined for civilian, rather than military, use.

Italian magistrates suspect the rifles had been modified to dodge international laws on the sale and transport of arms. - Sapa-dpa

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1515065,00.html

[AP]

28. Destination: Haiti? Columbia (to use against Venezuela)?

[loudsue]

29. Isn't the School of the Americas (wrong name?) in Georgia?

You know....the CIA training school? Isn't that in Georgia?

Maybe they're arming the new terrorists to go ....someplace!

:kick:

[Judi Lynn]

44. Definitely! It's at Ft. Benning, Georgia. n/t

[leftchick]

45. thanks loudsue....

Now that makes sense!

[maddezmom]

30. another update:

~snip~
The customs office said the weapons had been described as "common guns" instead of assault rifles and longer-range combat arms in the travel documentation.

Romania's National Agency for Export Control (ANCEX) said in a statement: "There have been transfers of weapons of small caliber and of light weapons from Romania to the United States.

"Their export was done according to Romanian law, on the basis of individual export authorizations and on confirmation from the American authorities prior to the transfer," the ANCEX statement

more:http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4881819

[mobuto]

31. Interesting link: Turkish/Israeli connection?

From the website of the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv:


BAYRAKTAR ÜRÜN VE MALZEME
Contact: Adnan Bayraktar
Medical items
Fax: [phone]
E-Mail: [e-mail]
ÝSTANBUL
EXPORT

The same guy who was exporting 8000 Kalashnikovs from Romania through Italy to the US also exports medical equipment from Israel to Turkey?

http://www.turkishembassy-telaviv.org/august%20offers.doc

[leanings]

32. These have got to be for parts kits.

Distributors take the guns, cut the receivers and then sell the barrels and furniture and the rest of it seperately for people who are building their own on existing receivers. Look at the way they're being shipped:

http://rds.yahoo.com/search/news/S=53720272/K=italian+guns+seized/v=2/SID=w/l=NIER/R=1/SIG=12b434d7o/*-http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040420/481/rgc10304201743

If they were intended for use they wouldn't have just been tossed in a pile. There was another pic on Yahoo earlier (dunno where it went) showing a WWII German MG-42 machine gun that was in the shipment; nobody's buying that for nefarious purposes. Gotta be parts kits.

[mmonk]

34. Probably for a clandestine operation somewhere

of which a contractor was to disperse and the use of kalashnikovs to cover up where the support for the operation was coming from.

[sofa king]

38. I hear the Cola Wars are about to heat up.

And this time, Coca-Cola is planning to go medieval on Pepsi.

[tom_paine]

39. Probably al little more Iran-Contra type activity

Since the Imperial Family and their Stooges are officially above the law, one has to assume that the career criminals of the Imperial Family are taking full advantage.

Much stolen loot and secret "Iran-Contra" slush fund money fidnign it's way to the Caymans tthese days.

And that's not even if you add in the tremendous amount of money made by the Busheviks by selling airline stick short on 9/10.

That was a brilliant move for them, and they KNEW they'd get away with it scot-free in spite of the fact that the Neon Trail pointing to THEM is probably still trackable (but won;t be in another 5 years)