General says Fallujah a "rat's nest" that needs to be dealt with

[Flagg]

General says Fallujah a "rat's nest" that needs to be dealt with




WASHINGTON (AFP) - The top US general said the Iraqi town of Fallujah was "a rat's nest" that will have to be dealt with in part through the use of military force.




General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, charged that insurgents were violating a ceasefire, putting women and children in the line of fire, and using Red Crescent ambulances to smuggle in arms and ammunition.


"We went in because we had to to find the perpetrators and what we found was a huge rat's nest that is still festering today. It needs to be dealt with," he told the Senate Armed Services Committee (news - web sites).


Myers, who visited Iraq (news - web sites) last week, said that although coalition authorities were responding with negotiations and a ceasefire, extremists continued to fire on US marines in Fallujah.


"They are still firing," he said.


"I think it was yesterday or the day before a Red Crescent ambulance trying to get in Fallujah was stopped and weapons were found inside. They are trying to resupply themselves with weapons and ammunition," he said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040420/pl_afp/us_iraq_fallujah_myers&cid=1521&ncid=1473

[damnraddem]

1. And the US is there to ...

bring democracy to those rats in their nest? Will the general have to destroy the nest in order to save it, or to democratize it -- or whatever they're calling it this week?

We should ask Condi: Is the "rat's nest" better now that Saddam is no longer in power?

Hmm, I wonder if the residents of Fallujah wouldn't prefer being called 'Iraqis' rather than 'rats' -- just something to ponder.

[htuttle]

3. RE: 'rats'

Facists have a long history of characterizing their victims as 'vermin' or 'rats'.

[MisterP]

16. take "Maus," for example, which spins off on that

[Just Me]

21. "hornets", "ragheads", "rats",...

THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS!!!!

:mad:

[saigon68]

31. Nazi's called gypsies "Vermin"

Myers has a long line of criminals to emulate and learn from apparently

[arcane1]

2. in other words

they don't want us there, we are going to have to MAKE them want us there, or kill them all in the process.

all they have is an irrational hatred of "freedom", no connection to our invasion and occupation and looting of their homeland

:puke:

[Catherine Vincent]

4. Yeah? Well who turned it into a rat's nest?

!!!!!!!!!

[k in IA]

5. Last night, I think it was on Arron Brown's CNN show

they were talking about the history of Fallujah and how it gave Saddam (sp?) and before that the British a hard time. It sounds like it is a city that just never gives in to anyone.

I thought it was interesting and wondered why we had never heard it before now.

[mbperrin]

7. Can't go teaching too much about the rest of the world

now, can we?

"And that's how Betsy Ross decided to support her big strong men."

After all, the bastards running things have control of the history of the country now, and he who controls the past controls the future.

[truthspeaker]

6. he's right but he's confused about who the rats are

[DulceDecorum]

11. It is not really his fault

that he is confused about the true identity of the rats. It is not like he can see a reflection when he looks in a mirror.

Incidentally, isn't this the same General Myers who cannot account for himself and his actions on September 11, 2001?

Ooops sorry, I forgot that we are not supposed to be able remember lies that we were told that far back. Nor are we supposed to be able to correctly identify liars and lies they are telling us today.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. a rat's nest

The ONLY human made rat's nest is the one in Washington. This battle has been going on for weeks, clearly the Iraqis are gaining ground on this one. So far they have avoided an all out genocide in Fallujah and elsewhere, it remain to be seen how the US military will accept this defeat. Most likely they will call it a victory, regardless of how bad it is.

[Aidoneus]

9. There does seem to be a "Rat's Nest" or two around there..

but it mostly seems to me to be these clusters of Generals who spit bluster before the cameras before plotting some new round of mass murder. Maybe instead, they're something that needs to be dealt with? These clowns must be in league with whoever is digging the graves over there, skyrocketing business for them while taking their cut under the table, and also on the side have stock in the industries that manufacture black body-shaped bags.

[anarchy1999]

10. We should not let them get away with this garbage.

We need to be faxing and sending every bit of information on what has really been happening in Fallujah to every member of this damnable committee! It's a rat nest created by our military!

excerpt from Stan Goff's essay from yesterday:

snip:
Last April in Fallujah--ancient history now - U.S. soldiers were sent there after local imams had established order. The imams had stopped the looting and vengeance attacks, re-opened public services, and established an interim constabulary. Normalcy was beginning to take hold when the Bradley fighting vehicles rolled into town, and the Americans took over a recently re-opened school for their headquarters, arrested the imams, installed their own mayor, and road blocked the whole city.

These actions were their orders, orders from people who knew nothing of Iraqi society, and this ignorance was delivered into the hands of the Iraqi resistance like a priceless gift.

Popular outrage was swift. The Americans--still tightly strung from recent combat--were besieged by angry demonstrators, who they then began to shoot. Between April 28-30 last year, twenty Iraqis were killed and scores wounded. Lies about weapons in the crowds were concocted, and eyewitnesses were effectively excluded from the Boeing/ADM media. CENTCOM could say anything, no matter the number of witnesses, and it would be given equal weight against all claims to the contrary.

But lies are only misrepresentations of reality. They do not erase reality, which is the problem now for Republicans and Democrats. In Fallujah last year, the masses were served a helping of occupation reality, and they were galvanized by it. Resistance is fertilized by blood, and the American guns in Fallujah nourished the greening fields of Iraqi opposition. The popular basis for a guerrilla struggle had been established by the American military's hand, and it wouldn't be long in coming.

A whole population was now prepared to take a supportive role in an armed resistance. This was a signpost, but it was written in a foreign tongue for the Americans.

http://www.counterpunch.org/

[anarchy1999]

14. Here is another excellent article to be used!

Baghdad doctors report use of cluster bombs in Falluja; US harrassment of patients
Dahr Jamail, The NewStandard, 20 April 2004

Baghdad, April 19 -- The word on the street in Baghdad is that the the cessation of suicide car bombings is proof that the CIA was behind them. Why? Because as one man states, " too busy fighting now, and the unrest they wanted to cause by the bombings is now upon them." True or not, it certainly doesn't bode well for the occupiers' image in Iraq.

The night before last I was awakened by a very large explosion in central Baghdad, followed promptly by three other smaller explosions. This morning, I awoke to another large explosion, again followed by several smaller ones.

snip:
When asked if the U.S. military were bombing civilians in Falluja, he stated, "Of course the Americans are bombing civilians, along with the revolutionaries. One year ago there was no revolution in Falluja. But they began searching homes and humiliating people, and this annoyed the people. The people became angry and demonstrated, then the Americans shot the demonstrators, and this started the revolution in Falluja. It is the same in Sadr City."

He continued angrily, "Aggression against civilians has caused all of this. Nothing happened for the first two months of the occupation. People were happy to have Saddam gone. And now, we hope for the mercy of God if the Americans invade Najaf."

Cluster bombs are reported to have been used commonly in Iraq both during the invasion and the occupation.

snip to end:
He continued, "One of my doctors in Falluja asked the Americans there if he could remove a wounded patient from the city. The soldier wouldn't let him move the victim, and said, OEWe have dead soldiers here too. This is a war zone.' The doctor wasn't allowed to remove the wounded man, and he died. So many doctors and ambulances have been turned back from checkpoints there."

This same doctor reported that he saw American soldiers killing women and children, as well as shooting ambulances in Falluja.

The doctor I spoke with expressed his outrage, "What freedom did America bring us? Freedom of the machine gun? So I am free to take my gun and shoot you?"
http://electroniciraq.net/news/1463.shtml

[mallard]

33. Re: questions of intimate familiarity

QUOTE: anarchy1999:

"These actions were their orders, orders from people who knew nothing of Iraqi society, and this ignorance was delivered into the hands of the Iraqi resistance like a priceless gift."


Great post, but some elements within the US operations planning circle - ones who know of struggles with Arab culture all too well - push their volitile plans through to get exactly the results they WANT - a dedicated, unstoppable armed conflict.

While playing dumb works (Rummy: no idea this insurgency would be so severe/did someone say "bring 'em on"?) marvelously as to expalining 'unexpected outcome' - the high echelon must nuture field commanders who can only find out the hard way that these orders they're given to decapitate the local civilian leadership (imams) are just adding fuel to the fire. Because they are KEPT IGNORANT of the intentions of their own directors - and even perhaps selected so's to insure an effective 'lack of foresight' buffer that people will respect (mostly because the mid-level commanders are good people being abused by the admin).

Yes, our miltary people are generally ignorant of Iraqi culture and will mostly be returning home with strong anti-Arab sentiment, but I think the ones making the key orders for confrontation know - and are getting - exaclty what they want - alot like with the case of the raiders on the National Museum.

They're pros at drawing out Arab crowds chanting for revenge - making more business for profit as the conflict escalates.

I still can't believe we're doing this (to modern Babylon no less)!

[saigon68]

12. Well General-- I guess you're just a Murderer/War Criminal

I forgot mother fucker and Lap Dog of the Corporations/ sorry it wouldn't fit in the title.

[progressivebydesign]

13. They're not "rats", they're civilians..

..they're families that have been caught in the crossfire between the occupiers and those that are trying to drive them out of the country. We fucked up big time over there, and the standard military answer is to kill them all.

[David__77]

15. US desperately wants a way out of confrontation in Fallujah.

It's interesting seeing the "diplomacy" unfold. Who are these "leaders" in Fallujah. I know that there have been collaborators who have been killed. There are police that openly support the insurgency. There are many pieces to the puzzle.

I have a hard time believing that the groups in Fallujah will willingly disarm. Perhaps they are escaping from the city with their weapons, knowing that they would be wiped out, but somehow I think many there have no problem dying so long as the attetion of the average Iraqi is fixed in the city.

[aquart]

18. Calling them "rats" may not be the way to do it.

Is our military still under the impression we're the good guys?

[David__77]

19. Officers want confrontation, administration does not, so it seems.

I think the military officers want to do what it is that they do in Fallujah. They feel like they're sitting around doing nothing. The administration, or some of them, see the serious consequences of hasty action.

[Gothmog]

17. Even Saddam had problems in keeping control in this town

I have seen several news reports that this town has always been difficult to govern. Evidently even Saddam had trouble in this town.

Urban warfare is very messy and we will lose a number of troops under the best of circumstances. There is no way that the town leaders are going to convince the militants to disarm and to turn over to the US the people who killed the military contractors. This is going to be a mess.

[Ganja Ninja]

20. This is going to be a bloodbath.

Especially when some of the troops have been told they are being rotated out and then are told they are staying. That has to really piss them off and the only people they can take it out on is the Iraqi's.

Bush, Cheney and Rummy are creating a bunch of bad dogs. Like a dog owner that wants a dog that is mean and will fight. They tease it and scare it and beat it and they wind up with a vicious animal. Thanks to the cruelty of this administration our guys are now ticking time bombs on the verge of exploding. So when the inevitable happens the soldiers and their commanders who commit the atrocities will get the blame. Meanwhile Bush will spout some crap about disciplinary action without the slightest feeling of guilt for his own role in turning disciplined soldiers into raging killers.

[anarchy1999]

24. What reports?

I've read the town was pretty much left alone. Ostracized at best. Don't put a lot of credit into recent reports and make sure about the source.

It might serve you well to google Robert Fisk and read some of his articles. Also, just google Fallujah and then do some homework.

[JoFerret]

22. Even Saddam left Fallujah

alone for the most part.

[yellowcanine]

23. When you call them "huns","gooks" or "rats" it is much easier to kill them

Anything to dehumanize the enemy. Happens in all wars. Part of the training. Myers knows this.

[Disturbed]

25. Brute Force

America has lost the war on the Iraqi people.
The US Govt. doesn't seem to know this... yet!
When news of this city's plight reaches many in Iraq
the resistance to the Occupation will be full titlt boogie!
Military minds don't understand that brute force causes
only deep resentments and long lasting hatred. The city may be pacified but the hearts and minds of the people will not be
open to subjegation.

The war is lost America! Go home!

[Karenina]

26. Such SICK SHIT!

:SIGH:

[0rganism]

27. And of course there's nothing wrong with carpet bombing a bunch of rats

Let's see... what shall we use... Napalm? Appealing, but smelly. High explosives? Effective, yet messy. How about.... a Neutron Bomb?

Efficiency and progress is ours once more
Now that we have the Neutron bomb
It's nice and quick and clean and gets things done
Away with excess enemy
But no less value to property
No sense in war but perfect sense at home

Ah yes, I think one of those will do nicely.

[saigon68]

28. PUNK ASS COWARD



Gen. BLUE SUIT MEYERS puppet boy, US military catamite, appointed by Caesar Cheney in the year of Our Lord 2001

His quotes “Duh, we are winning” and on the increased violence that flared up this month is "a symptom of the success that we're having here in Iraq"

And "No my hand is not grabbing at her breast"

Also on the subject of Fallujah "We went in because we had to find the perpetrators and what we found was a huge rat's nest that is still festering today. It needs to be dealt with,"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/newstmpl=story&u=/afp/20040420/pl_afp/us_iraq_fallujah_myers&cid=1521&ncid=1473

[DivinBreuvage]

29. Ominous parallel with 1942?

The Germans took to calling the fighting in Stalingrad "Rattenkrieg", or "rat war" because of the way it was fought: the Soviets holed up everywhere they could and fought the Germans from basements, rubble heaps, the tangled wreckage of destroyed factories, and had to be cleared house by house, floor by floor. The Soviets also dug in as close to the German lines as they could so the Germans couldn't call in air strikes on the Soviet front line for fear of hitting their own men.

The Germans bombed the crap out of the city and killed civilians by the tens of thousands, but the end result of that was to create more places for the Soviets to hide while making it harder for the Germans to move their tanks and vehicles around.

[gottaB]

30. Thank God we've learned all the right lessons from WWII

Originally reported in the NY Times: "And we don't want to rubblize the city," said Colonel McCoy, whose battalion of 800 clashes daily with insurgents. "That will give the enemy more places to hide."

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=4151

[saigon68]

32. rubblize the city

Nice going McCoy

[happyslug]

34. "Increasingly well organized" ?????

Units DECLINE in combat readiness the longer they are in combat, thus this makes no sense UNLESS you interrupt the term "Enemy" as anyone in the City and as such CIVILIANS organize themselves to protect themselves they become better organize.

[gottaB]

36. I'm thinking of a word.....

perspicacity

[ze_dscherman]

35. "We kill them like the morons they are"

That was said during the invasion, I forgot by whom, but IIRC it was someone high-ranking. The right way to win their hearts and minds.

[callous taoboy]

37. Such a glass house

we live in here in the U.S. Close to 1,000,000 children are abused in the U.S. each year (and these are just the reported cases). Yet our child protective services are woefully underfunded.