Alan Grayson Blasts Tea Party Debate Audience's Reaction To Health Care Question: 'It's Sadism'

[cal04]

Source: Huffington Post

The jubilant shouts of members of the GOP audience encouraging the death of a hypothetical uninsured man bring to mind the 2009 House floor speech delivered by former Florida Rep. Alan Grayson, in which he famously charged: "The Republicans want you to die quickly if you get sick." Members of the crowd at the Tampa debate agree with Grayson.

(snip)

HuffPost asked Grayson what he thought of the crowd cheering for the death of the uninsured man. He writes:

My speech was about the fact I had been listening to the Republicans for months, and they literally had no plan to help all those millions of people who can’t see a doctor when they’re sick. So I said, in sort of a wry manner, that their plan was "don’t get sick." All I really wanted to do was just call attention to the stark absence of a Republican plan. But Fox, trying to take the heat off Joe Wilson and Sarah Palin I guess, transmogrified that into a charge that Republicans want to kill people.

What you saw tonight is something much more sinister than not having a healthcare plan. It's sadism, pure and simple. It's the same impulse that led people in the Coliseum to cheer when the lions ate the Christians. And that seems to be where we are heading -- bread and circuses, without the bread. The world that Hobbes wrote about -- "the war of all against all."



Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/12/alan-grayson-tea-party-debate-health-care_n_959383.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

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videos at link

[The Wielding Truth]

1. These people are sadists. How else could they enjoy denying those in need.

[jberryhill]

7. The parable of the poor servant

You know, in that parable the servant can actually see his master suffering in Hell, and it's okay.

Most of them have long accepted that their reception into eternal joy will be coupled with the damnation of most of humanity. They aren't going to let that spoil the fun.

[noel711]

44. Slight correction..

You're referencing the story of Lazarus,
the homeless man who languished at the doorstep
of a wealthy, nameless man from the gospel of Luke.

These republican clowns parade around like
Pharisees, claiming their triumphant Christianity.
Just like the crowds that cheered the execution of Jesus.
But they haven't a clue;
sadly, the crowds that believe them are also clueless,
all the way into destruction.

Yet, the rest of us a socialist losers.

[jberryhill]

46. Ah, that's it

I always blank on that since Lazarus was the name of the guy whom Jesus made die twice (i.e. since Lazarus is no longer alive, the resurrection didn't "take" permanently).

[jwirr]

48. The story of the man laying injured on the roadside with everyone

but the good samaritan avoiding him comes to mind also.

[fasttense]

29. Wolfy boy phrased the question to make it appear as if there is a choice.

But why didn't he ask what happens if the guy with no health insurance has a car accident, his tire blew out and his car hits a post, and is in a coma? Do we let him die then? He can't go out and beg churches to have ridiculous bake sales for him to pay his bills. He can't go around begging rich people to cover his bills.

And what was it that Wolfy claims is the cost of comprehensive health care insurance? He said $200 to $300 a month. I know for a fact that a healthy 22 year old's health insurance runs more like $900 a month.

But we all know what the real underlying questions is? Who will pay the profits of the health insurance corporations? It's not about rugged individualism. It's simple math. The Health Insurance corporations want your money and by God they are going to get it one way or another.

People who cheer such a purposeless death, never stop to think what if it happens to them or their loved ones. It's easy to be heartless and cruel when it doesn't affect you.

[TonyPDX]

66. It's a personality disorder and when they're gathered together

their collective greed and inability to feel empathy or guilt is validated.

[PatSeg]

78. But when they are the ones in need of help,

they suddenly become "entitled". Somehow THEY are worthy, but THAT guy over there is an undeserving free-loader.

You summed it up rather nicely. Mob mentality.

[jellen]

98. They don't feel entitled.

I definitely feel that they feel that all the troubles won't happen to them. their kids will never get on drugs, go to jail,rack up a catastrophic medical bill. They will never lose their jobs, have elderly parents with Alzheimers, Their marriages will be honey and roses forever, no one will get shot with a gun,get a problem that they can't handle with God's care. I know people sometimes get any number of these problems. It gets them empathy. It teaches them the value of life and love.

[PatSeg]

108. Oh, they certainly

can't imagine such things happening to them, but when it does happen, they often react less with empathy and more with an "entitled" attitude. There are exceptions of course, but I've seen it so often and it amazes me every time. It is sad really. How can people require and solicit the compassion that they are not prepared to give?

[provis99]

2. it's worse than that, Mr.Grayson,

at least in Rome, only rebels and foreign enemies were thrown to the lions; the Teabaggers want to see their fellow Romans killed in the Coliseum, too.

[jberryhill]

8. Depends... Are the Romans white and do they speak English?

Hey, how do italicize a subject line?

[onehandle]

3. Hey, they got theirs. Fuck the little people. nt

[Juche]

79. It is worse than that

Most aren't aware that they only have 'theirs' because someone more powerful gives it to them (a good job, an SS check, medicare, good schools for their kids, etc), and are too in denial to know that they are the little people too, everything they value can be taken away at a whim by someone more powerful. It is sad. Jay Gould said he could hire half the working class to kill the other, and this is the half that falls for that shit.

[Lint Head]

4. As I've said many time on DU, Republicans LOVE death. Soldiers dying for oil,

people dying because they don't have health care an on an on an on. Death means profit and you know Republicans LOVE profit more than life itself. Hell, they applauded execution during the last Tea Baggers debate.


I could link to all my previous posts referring to this but I think it's not the DU thing to do. Grayson should be President. He said on the House floor what I've thinking for a long time.

[kestrel91316]

60. Repigs remind me, more than anything, of the bloodthirsty Mayans as depicted

in Apocalypto. Cheering at the deaths of the poor saps they stole from their homes in tiny forest villages. Eating their hearts. Gratuitous killing for the sake of killing.

[kag]

94. And don't forget...

Letting women and babies die because the rethugs force her to have an unwanted child. Then once the baby is born (assuming they don't both die in childbirth since the Rethugs don't want her to have medical insurance), they want nothing to do with her or her offspring. They want her and the child they hoisted upon her to live in poverty, without insurance, with no help for the inevitable postpartum depression, no support to teach her how to care for her child, and no medical care if either of them get sick.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

5. Yet another example of the left being correct and blasted for it

See also: Opposition to Iraq War, opposition to NAFTA, GATT, etc

Thank god we have more serious minds in the beltway to help set us straight

[pampango]

33. The left is correct, as you say, but the left created GATT not the right. The right (Hoover, Smoot,

and Hawley) created the tariffs that FDR sought to prevent from coming back with multilateral institutions governing international trade and monetary policty.

The Bretton Woods Conference of 1944 recognized the need for a comparable international institution for trade (the later proposed International Trade Organization, ITO) to complement the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.<[br />
In early December 1945, the United States invited its war-time allies to enter into negotiations to conclude a multilateral agreement for the reciprocal reduction of tariffs on trade in goods. In July 1945 the United States Congress had granted President Harry S. Truman the authority to negotiate and conclude such an agreement.

The General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (typically abbreviated GATT) was negotiated during the UN Conference on Trade and Employment and was the outcome of the failure of negotiating governments to create the International Trade Organization (ITO). GATT was signed in 1947 and lasted until 1993, when it was replaced by the World Trade Organization in 1995. The original GATT text (GATT 1947) is still in effect under the WTO framework, subject to the modifications of GATT 1994.

The idea of multilateral institutions to govern international trade and monetary policy was FDR's.

"The "Bretton Woods) conference was held from 1-22 July 1944, when the agreements were signed to set up the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD), the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), and the International Monetary Fund (IMF)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_Conference

The International Trade Organization would have had even more power than GATT over international trade, was signed by Truman and submitted numerous times to the republican-controlled congress which never approved it.

"The Bretton Woods Conference of 1944 recognized the need for a comparable international institution for trade (the later proposed International Trade Organization, ITO) to complement the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Trade_Organization

[StarsInHerHair]

6. & they CLAIM TO BE 'pro-life'

[Divine Discontent]

13. they're all for it until the baby comes out - then it's screw you, get your own, we don't give a

damned about your call for compassion and charity! frauds.



http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128002960205017719

[Plucketeer]

70. Even those GOP-endorsed births are self-serving

That they insist on a pregnancy going full term (screw the circumstances or consequences), is merely (in their eyes) a no-cost way of garnering God's good graces so they'll be certain to ascend when the Rapture comes to pass. If their anti-abortion fervor didn't "buy" them anything, they wouldn't say a word.

[Divine Discontent]

101. yep! they wouldn't say a word.

http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128002960205017719

[alterfurz]

90. GOP/Tea Party platform: The Right to Life ENDS at Birth!

[kag]

95. What a great quote!

Think I'll copy it and use it in the future. I've never heard of John Fugelsang. Do you know who he is?

[alterfurz]

104. another great Fugelsang quote

"Dear Tea Party: Obama is not a brown-skinned anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You're thinking of Jesus."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fugelsang

[w0nderer]

106. 2 quotes, a bookmark link and a rightclick save picture

pretty awesome for 2 posts
:-)

[lonestarnot]

9. Fucking bunch of nutwit CONs. That's all.

[reformist2]

10. It's Social Darwinism making a resurgence in the GOP.

I think we should call them out on it, repeatedly - it might make the fundies freak out to be identified with atheists - and evolution! ;)

[Lost-in-FL]

11. Actually, there is nothing Darwinian about Social Darwinism.

Republicans and conservatives not only managed to distort the Christian scriptures and adopted the worse kind of christian doctrine (Calvinism) as a way of life. They also distorted the little bit of "evolution" their pea size brain managed to absorb.

So no... They should not be identified with evolution. However, Teahadists teaches us a great lesson in evolution; that evolution does not always lead to greatness or perfection. At times illiteracy can have a genetic advantage.

[FarLeftFist]

12. Grayson was right about the GOP the whole time: Die Quickly!

[chollybocker]

14. Bloodlust is a fetish for rethugs.

War, guns, suffering, violence, death, hate. A religion, a lifestyle, an agenda.

[Kall]

15. Hey, you know Jesus.

He asked to see peoples' insurance cards before he did anything.

Not that this really excuses the Democrats for their shit bill either, which doesn't even begin to address the problem of health care being left to the private for-profit health insurance industry. Yeah, Republicans are even more ridiculous, but that doesn't excuse Democrats being a bit less stupid and ridiculous in the way they go about the problem. This industry has fucked up health care six ways from Sunday, so why not require everybody to buy their defective products, and entrench them as the delivery system for health care? I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

Now there's a bill that won't work but it can't be defended on the basis that it will actually work, just on the basis that the Republicans are against it.

Earth to Democrats - shit you pass has to actually work. You can't attract support and votes if it doesn't, while saying the other guy's answers are even worse. Passing 'A Bill' isn't enough.

[Thor_MN]

39. Hmmm.. Sounds an awful lot like the Conservative binary approach

Conservatives abhor shades of gray, everything is black and white, 100% good or 100% evil. For bills other than their own (They are masters of hypocrisy) if it doesn't solve ALL aspects of the problem, it shouldn't be even considered. There are no partial solutions to the conservative mind. Any little flaw or uncovered area becomes an insurmountable object. So much so that they will force crap into bills via "compromise" that they can later disown and blame the liberals for the effects of their own bad ideas.

Yes, perfect bills are the goal, but I'll choose mediocre over the crap that the GOP puts up every time. Mediocre is a start towards not so bad, that leads to OK, that leads to pretty good, etc.

It doesn't have to happen in one bill, most journeys can not be completed in one step, and one needs to take the first step to start.

[area51]

61. +1

Great post, Kali. The demo party has no idea of the coming shit storm when the mandate kicks in & they get blamed for this very republican bill that doesn't even offer a public option or the ability to buy into Medicare.

Republinazi '93 plan:

"Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005."

[MedicalAdmin]

64. "shit you pass has to actually work" = +1

Excellent point. As a clinic manager who deals with this shit daily I can only tell you that insurance companies are evil. Not that I'm biased.

[DaveJ]

100. Sure, destroying the health insurance industry would work

Or maybe the 440,000 people employed in that field might mind, maybe?

I noticed everyone who's jobs aren't effected by it don't seem to mind throwing out this suggestion.

It's really ridiculous to think that politicians have the power to just transform and/or eliminate entire industry that is integral to the economy just like that.

I totally understand how insurance is evil, lots of professions are. There are lots of professions and industries I'd like to get rid of too, but we need to be realistic here.

[Moonwalk]

75. "Hey, you know Jesus...He asked to see peoples' insurance cards before he did anything." I am...

SO going to use this! That absolutely made my day! What an awesome comeback to the righteous right. :yourock:

[KansDem]

77. "He asked to see peoples' insurance cards before he did anything."

I need your picture ID, insurance card, and co-pay...

[cppuddy]

16. Just wondering.

What happen to people if these 'people' get into office. If they win more elections? We can kiss the United States of America good by. I'm glad I live in Rhode Island, we still have a little sense left in New England, I Hope. Is just really sad.

[dogmoma56]

17. GOP believes Wealth is proof of God's favor of a man, sin to tax the rich. poor are being punished >

the "C street Family and the Dominionists believe that God/Jesus only bless the Rich, Wealth and Power is proof of gods Favor of a man/corporation, so it is a sin to tax them. God Speaks directly to the rich/Powerful, the poor must "Submit" totally to their will, and become a slave to god. the poor and sick are being punished by god so it is a sin to help them, or not to torment them.

http://doggo.tripod.com/doggchrisdomin.html

http://blog.buzzflash.com/hartmann/10016

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

the GOP is a Theocratic Cargo Cult of OCD psychotic narcissistic wealth/power hoarders.. in the 30's Depression FDR appointed Abraham Vereide, ,to a Cabinet position to start programs for the poor to bring them out of poverty.. Vereide's plan was to start Dominionist evangelical tent "Revivals" all over the country, only the Poor who came and prayed thru and totally submitted to the Dominion of the rich and Gods great plan would get help. he quietly was replaced ..and the Reich Wing immediately began undermining the New Deal.. still the fundamental purpose of the GOP is to repeal the New Deal, because it is the work of Satan, communists and Socialists, all interchangeable. that is what all the Debt debate is to get the power to repeal the New Deal legislation and the rights of the under class.

they want to disfund the government to destroy it and the Constitution and replace it with a Theocratic Plutocratic Cleptocracy. the Constitution is a socialist document.


over 6 months on the NYT best sellers list... best source of who really runs America and for how long.. MUST READ BOOKS

http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secret-Fundamentalism-Heart-American/dp/0060560053/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312653553&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Street-Fundamentalist-American-Democracy-Readers/dp/0316091065/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312653553&sr=1-1

[jwirr]

49. Exactly. The double predestination law. False in every way. But

they like it as long as they can be the ones pointing the fingers.

[dogmoma56]

62. yea.. but they will burned at the stake beside us.. they are just temporary tools.

[goforit]

18. Wow! Even animals care for their own.

[PuffedMica]

19. The President needs Alan Grayson in his administration

[Le Taz Hot]

26. He needed Howard Dean, :Paul Krugman,

Robert Reich and Al Gore too, but that didn't happen -- got their polar opposites as a matter of fact.

[jwirr]

50. And that I will never understand. How did he expect to make change

with the very people who were creating the problems?

[bvar22]

59. He didn't.

..and the proof is, as you point out,
the people he put in positions of POWER.

No Democrat who opposed the Invasion/Occupation of Iraq
was included in his White House.

Summers & Geithner were put in charge of The Economy.

Mr. Monsanto (Vilsack) was in put in charge of our food supply.

...and it just got worse from there.

The Writing was On The Wall for those who chose to read it.

The DLC New Team
Progressives Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254886&kaid=86&subid=85

The problem I have with "Centrists" is that they agree with Republicans on policy.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[PuffedMica]

20. K&R

[jefferson_dem]

21. I don't always agree with Grayson's blustery characterizations...

This time, however, he's spot on. Shame on them!

[OneGrassRoot]

22. (edit): What's up with it being billed as Tea Party Republican debate?

Is it official that all Republicans ARE Tea Party Republicans now? Is it no longer just the Republican Party?

I found a link to the video with the audience's reaction to the healthcare debate.

[paparush]

23. The HYPOCRISY. I'm guessing the "Let him die" crowd are white Christians.

A cornerstone of Christ's ministry was healing the sick..for free.

The stupid is bordering on dangerous.

[LeftishBrit]

35. And most would probably claim to be 'Pro-life'

[w0nderer]

24. K&R

some people clearly state they wish to stand outside society (as defined by people working together for a common goal) why not let them?

clear out a state or two, barb wire, cement wall and mines around it and toss them there
let them live in a ayn randian tea party paradise of glorious self reliance and rugged patriotic individualism

[NewJeffCT]

25. The Teabaggers make up a real death panel

cheering the man who has executed innocent people, and then cheering somebody being allowed to die.

[David Sky]

27. And to think, lots of those Tea bagger folks are over 65 and on Medicare!!

Owing their lives to the money we all pay into the Medicare system to keep them around.

[dotymed]

99. That was my first thought. "This is retirement state USA."

How can these elderly people, having lost many friends and loved ones over the years, cheer the for profit death of a fellow human being?

Also, these are the pre-Reagan generation. I always think in terms of the new generation not having experienced life before the free market insanity of reagan... remembering what non-profit hospitals were, etc..

Obviously, my rationale is wrong.

[AngryOldDem]

28. I wonder how close some of these people are to being in the same boat.

Whether you opt out of it, or lose it, or it's not offered as a benefit of employment (and those days are coming, sooner rather than later) if you don't have health insurance, you don't have health insurance. Period.

So....what to do if someone in last night's audience gets sick or hurt? (Hypothetically, of course.)

Looks like we have our Tea Party-approved answer.

[Botany]

30. Executions and people in comas dying are things to cheer?

What is next the applause line the famine in Africa, black lung disease, breast cancer, or bull fighting?

Sick bastards.

[Chipper Chat]

31. Alan must have read my post about the Christians and the lions.

I was referring to the sorry-ass republicans that cheered and whistled at last week's debate when Rambo-Rick Perry proclaimed that if you sneeze in Texas you will be executed. Samo samo.

[LeftishBrit]

36. If right-wing Republicans were thrown to the lions, the poor lions would die of food poisoning.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. So, Thrid Way folks, what is the proper compromise to offer

to those cheering 'let them die'? What common ground do you see, where is the 'middle way'?

[demwing]

34. The people claiming to be Christians act like the Romans

and the people those "Christians" deride as Godless Liberals are the ones really following Christ's examples.

We will get fed to the beasts if these evil people are successful.

[hue]

37. Repubs populate hospitals as much as anyone...

I am a nurse and work in an intensive care unit. The irony runs so deep to see them recover from their heart attacks,
heart failure, out of control diabetic episodes and renal failure while watching Faux News and railing against the very
benefits they are receiving. They sit in their hospital beds and call President Obama names!
And believe me they expect EVERYTHING to be done for them. Yet they are non compliant at
home continuing to smoke, not monitor their blood sugar, don't adhere to their cardiac or diabetic diets (some are quite obese)
and family members sneak in burgers & chips etc.for them.

[bbgrunt]

41. ...so you agree with Dr. Paul? People who appear to

be non compliant with your ideas should just die?

[jberryhill]

47. That doesn't seem to be a fair comment

It would seem to me that the person was expressing an observation of the hypocrisy of those who receive benefits but would deny them to others.

Quite clearly, the person to whom you are responding is in the business of caring for the sick, regardless of their political or personal views, and it is inappropriate for you to attribute the odious comment above to him/her.

[Paka]

105. Thank you, jberryhill! n/t

[jwirr]

51. Where did she say that? She is saying that when they get sick they

still hold that others should not have help - but themselves - why everything they can get.

[hue]

58. Thanks!

I was was referring to the irony of the situation!

[hue]

56. that's a big jump in assumption for you to make!

I treat them the same as everyone! It is a constant battle to keep some Peeps alive--while they do
everything at home to kill themselves, such as continue to smoke tho they are given smoking cesssation classes
after their heart surgery & have had a month in hospital & rehab without smoking before they go home.
That's just one example. I do not wish anyone to be left to die for any reason tho we all must die.
I hope You are well also! I've been a nurse for 38 years!

[bbgrunt]

68. sorry if I misunderstood your intention in that post.

I didn't mean to attack you--although I guess I did. I just think that the hypocrisies that you point out are not limited to republicans and that it is very easy to judge who is "worthy" of medical care.....and if we ever give in to the republican idea that those who do not take responsibility for themselves by buying insurance should be left to die-----the next step is to say that those who appear to not take responsibility for themselves by ignoring "good habits" or being overweight should also be left to die.

I think it is a very slippery argument--even if you did not make it.

:hi:

[teknomanzer]

89. Stop being so dense...

The people the poster was talking about are being non-compliant with their medical directives.

[tilsammans]

52. Thank you for all you do for all your patients

It must be a challenge to care for people who'd so easily deny the same care to others.

I'm embarrassed to say that some of my relatives are like that.

[asjr]

38. I am less worried about the Republicans

running for office as I am about the ones voting for them. Now that is scary!

[bongbong]

40. The question to ponder

Do repigs hate humanity, or America, more?

[moondust]

42. They love killin' things.

People (especially brown people), wildlife, environment. I suppose it makes them feel less powerless or something.

That destructive psychology seems evident in their politics as well. If they can politically "kill" their election opponents they win! Last man standing! Isn't that what they are trying to do to Obama? Would that still work if there were more than two major political parties?

[Zorra]

43. Ick. This is what they are.

They're just the same as the heartless fucking nazis were.

This is why bipartisanship cannot ever work, you can't reason with people that have no conscience.

Make no mistake, they'd burn us at the stake and dance around the fire howling ecstatic praises to their deity in a shrew's heartbeat if they ever get the leader who will take them to their dark and nasty conservative "promised land".

They've done it before, many times.

[samsingh]

45. the are the face of hate and vile filth

[tilsammans]

53. Being a Republican today means . . .

. . . you are willingly and blissfully devoid of all empathy.

[Odin2005]

54. They are PSYCHOPATHS.

[Loge23]

55. I wonder how the screamers are covered?

Government pensions? Medicare?
These people are dangerous, make no mistake about that.

[janjensen]

57. jobs back

How can they get the jobs back?

[liberal N proud]

63. The teabaggers must have sought out the sickest of the sick minds for the audience

[madrchsod]

65. now you know why hitler could kill 8 million + people....

[sufrommich]

67. I wish Alan Grayson would move to a blue district and

run again.

[SpankMe]

69. Repblican evil - Confirmed. n/t

[Mnpaul]

107. "Die quickly" plan - confirmed

Grayson nailed it some time ago.

[BanTheGOP]

71. Would someone PLEASE TELL ME why the republican party should be allowed to even EXIST?

The republican party is NOT a political party! It is the REASON our country is in shambles now. Seriously. If any organization which purported to give money from poor people to rich people, to champion military mayhem over progressive diplomacy, to covet planetary destructive oil, coal, and nuclear over wind and solar energy, and finally, to promote a highly racist policy over that of diversity, this organization would IMMEDIATELY be renounced for its inherent evil.

But the republican party does all this, and FAR WORSE. So WHY THE HELL IS IT ALLOWED TO FINANCIALLY EXIST???

We should get downright MEDIEVAL on republicans...NOW! Enforce existing RICO statutes on this organization to prohibit its financing. This is NOT a political party any more. I will repeat. The republican party is NOT a legitimate political party, but because of its actions and edicts, is against virtually EVERY constitution and any semblance of progressive fairness.

SO BAN THE #*#%)(ing PARTY ALREADY!! Sheesh...

[unionworks]

72. There is no "Tea Party"

It is pure astroturf, comprised of Bush supporters who stripped off their uniforms and put on nutty costumes so they could deny all responsibility for the shape this country was left in after 8 years of facism.

[on point]

73. Actually they are predators. It explains everything in their positions

From deregulation (hey buyer beware. If you are sucker enough to get taken that's your loss)
to health care (you lose ha ha!)
to authoritarian bully instinct (if I can cower you all the better)

[SoapBox]

74. Go Alan Go! I loves ya man!!

Stick it to these scum bags Alan...

Move out to CA to my area...I would love to have a true Progressive instead of DINO Janice Hahn.

[joeglow3]

76. Part of me said "screw that uninsured man."

The reality is that this is why we are in the situation we are in. Those who CAN afford health insurance, but choose to not buy it. He is a world apart form the poor family that cannot afford health insurance. This is why the mandate is so important.

[radhika]

80. Actually, the way Wolfe framed it, the guy was a classic free-rider..

In economics, its a person or company that deliberately chooses to not participate in a social good, and instead rides for free on the contributions of others. In unions, even tho a worker can legally decline to JOIN a union, usually s/he will be required to pay the equivalent of member dues since the wages, benefits and protections were negotiated by the union. The free rider gets those bennies, but doesn't chip in dues. (Right-to-work laws have weakened this, alas).

The example....

The 30 YO, single, with a decent income opted out of insurance, betting on good health. He bet wrong. So this example is as much a reason in support of a mandate (as joeglow3 notes) or (my choice) Single Payer, where the health system is funded by tax dollars. As for the lack-of-compassion charge, sure, I get that. Reptilians don't like that mammal stuff.

Under today's policies, that man would get emergency care - and he' get it from state/county facilities, charitiable care or under Medicaid. Assuming he recovered, he'd likely be stuck with a ton of unpaid bills and face medical bankruptcy.

Wolfe coulda done better unpacking the discussion - be then, that's CNN isn't it?

[defendandprotect]

84. .... kind of like Capitalism -- corporations we taxpayers bailed out -- again -- !!

[radhika]

86. That's the rub, isn't it?

You don't hear free-rider arguments about corporations. Only people. (In this instance, I'm sure SCOTUS would NOT argue that citizens and corporations are one and the same).

If Wolfe had asked if a large corporation (say, Exxon-Mobil) was found to be exploiting pricing mechanisms to the detriment of citizens, toxifying the environment, failing to clean up and operate safely, requiring American military to enforce their international holding and contracts --- but PAID NO TAXES! What would the crowd shout? If Global Corporations aren't free-riding what is - and in the case of Big Oil, we hand them taxpayer dollars outright for sucking the lifebloo out of citizens and country.

Good comment.

[bvar22]

81. No, the

...support a Private EnterpriseFor-Profit approach to Health Care Allocation,
where the parasitic Health Insurance Corporations have been enshrined as the Gate Keepers to health care in America.
They manufacture NOTHING,
Provide NO "Service",
and create NO Wealth (Valued Added),
but NOW have Mandated "Customers, and a guaranteed Profit.

If we had a system like those in Any Other Civilized Country,
you wouldn't be able to blame somebody else for your problems.

Do you have any figures that support your claim that
"People who can afford insurance, but choose not to buy it are the problem"?
This is suspiciously like the Republican Claims of the Welfare Cadillacs.

Please cite some data indicating how many can afford insurance,
and choose not to buy it.

Here is what Campaign Obama had to say about the Insurance Mandates:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acc6Wn_BWlk

I support THAT guy.


Solidarity!
The problem I have with Centrists is that they agree with Republicans.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[joeglow3]

85. You realize I was simply referring to the hypothetical man, right???

In this case, it was a healthy 30 year who COULD afford health insurance, but bet against needing it (and lost). This is worlds apart from what you are citing (and which I agree completely with you).

[defendandprotect]

82. ... but above all ... remember, the right wing are "Christians" -- !!! YIKES!!!

Love Alan Grayson -- !!!

[RedCloud]

83. Did the lions eat the christians in stoic Rome?

Or was that more in the outer parts of the empire?

[katty]

87. agree.hey if the word fits....! they are narcisscists for sure &

skew to the perverse, glad to dole out 'pain and punishment' for 'those NOT like them'--a sickening bunch.

[CrispyQ]

88. Has anyone on CNN made a comment about this heinous behavior?

I'm so fucking sick of our compromised, corrupt media. I heard Blitzer refer to himself as a journalist one day & wanted to throw something at the screen.

[DollyM]

91. Two MD's spoke at a local TEA party rally here . . .

I thought about going but didn't think I could stomach it. Two local physicians were scheduled to speak about the evil of healthcare reform though. Big surprise there! I don't see why people can't get that this issue is a about greed. I'll tell you one thing, those are two physicians I will write off my list of ever going to see.

[a2liberal]

92. It's a mental disorder

Now we call it fiscal conservatism, objectivism, tea party, libertarianism, or minarchy to make it appear more reasonable or socially acceptable. But we used to have a different name for it: sociopathy.

[orbitalman]

93. K & R

[Riley18]

96. They are no better than the Nazis

[Norrin Radd]

97. Yahoo! News is trying to scrub comments about this:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/audience-tea-party-debate-cheers-leaving-uninsured-die-163216817.html

That page went down for awhile, and now it's back up, without comments, which is odd, because every other article on their "The Ticket" page has comments.

[Tx4obama]

103. There are over 9,000 comments on that article link.

Perhaps the comments just didn't load for ya.
Try again, they are there.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/audience-tea-party-debate-cheers-leaving-uninsured-die-163216817.html

[Tx4obama]

102. Heads Up: Alan Grayson will be on Countdown w/ Keith Olbermann AND also on The Ed Show - TONIGHT