Libyan rebels discover Gaddafi's chemical weapons

[alp227]

Source: The Guardian

Libyan rebel forces claim to have discovered banned chemical weapons stockpiles in southern desert areas captured from Gaddafi loyalists in the last few days.

Spokesmen for the National Transitional Council (NTC) said a depot had been found in the Jufra area, 435 miles (700km) south of Tripoli, during part of an offensive against regime strongholds in the remote south of the country.

The rebels also say they have now taken most of Sebha, the largest town in the area whose tribes were long seen as loyal to Gaddafi and is an important staging post for travel to Niger, where some former regime figures have fled. Libyan officials have confirmed that a senior intelligence officer was captured there two days ago.

It had been thought that Gaddafi himself might have been hiding in Sebha along with his fugitive second son, Saif al-Islam, but NTC fighters found no trace of them.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/22/libyan-rebels-gaddafis-chemical-weapons

[tabatha]

1. Ironic.

WMD was the pretext for the disastrous war in Iraq; none were found.

Civilian protection was the aim of the Libya no-fly zone - the Libyans themselves find WMD.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. don't mean to be a bucket of icy water, but. . . .

shouldn't we be a bit concerned as to what they decide to do with these WMDs?

For example, we know that the libyan opposition has both liberal and very conservative elements to it. Allies of convenience, as it were. (See Egypt's growth of some serious Muslim Brotherhood factions who in my mind are as crazy as Wahhabi Saudis.)

What a great vehicle to get yourself noticed on the world stage, and to be able to demand some hefty bribes, with a premium, in exchange for some of the weapons. What a way to scare other factions into obedience, by simply "warning" that we are armed better than you expect.

[tabatha]

9. Oh, good grief.

The FFs found this and immediately brought over CNN to show them and for them to broadcast to the rest of the world. The other known sites are secure and being protected. This one was a surprise.

They will get rid of these at the first opportunity.

And Jalil has repeated over an over again --- they are moderate muslims in Libya, who are decidedly pro-West. They are extremely grateful to the West for their help.

UPDATE

In Vienna, IAEA spokeswoman Gill Tudor said: "We can confirm that there is yellow cake stored in drums at a site near Sabha ... which Libya previously declared to the IAEA."

Referring to measures to make sure material is not diverted to non-peaceful purposes, she added: "The IAEA has tentatively scheduled safeguards activities at this location once the situation in the country stabilises."

IAEA safeguards usually include regular inspector visits, seals and possible camera monitoring of nuclear-related sites.

Last month, a U.S. State Department spokeswoman said the United States believed Libya's stocks of concentrated uranium and mustard agent built up by Gaddafi were secure.

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KM4TQ20110922?sp=true

[ChairmanAgnostic]

15. so yo are absolutely sure and content that no

leakage, no losses, no nothing could ever occur.

Wow, I wish I had your convictions and insight. I could sleep better at night.

One dirty secret that is rarely discussed. After the Soviet Union collapsed, they lost raw and finished nuclear material. They also lost control over some of the most deadly bacterial, viroid and poisons that they had secretly developed. While some of that stuff was eventually recovered, safeguarded, even destroyed, NOT ALL OF IT WAS.

But that could never happen, could it? No way could some material become "lost." Oh no, especially since there will be future actions at this location ONCE THE SITUATION IN THE COUNTRY STABILIZES.

Ignorance is bliss, or so I hear.

[ellisonz]

16. You changed the subject from the rebels to "what if"...

The Libyan people didn't buy these weapons; the stinking Gaddafi regime did.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. You seem smart.

Then why play dumb?

Why ignore the possible danger? Not 100% of the rebels are all friendly.

[ellisonz]

18. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

The "rebels" are not the same as black market arms dealers (i.e. criminals) or Al Qaeda in North Africa, which to date has not been shown to have had any presence in Libya.

[Psephos]

6. He used to have a nuclear program, but gave it up in 2003.

Afraid of getting the same treatment Saddam got.

The Libyan nuclear program was bought from Abdul Qadeer Khan's underground network. Khan is the guy responsible for Pakistan's bomb program.

I agree, the irony is profound.

[OnyxCollie]

2. So why didn't he use them?

Gaddafi was keeping the powder dry... for what?

[dipsydoodle]

5. Because he had no means of delivering it.

The stock of 9.5 tonnes was known of but not its exact location.

[OnyxCollie]

7. Okay.

It just makes me question why Gaddafi and Saddam (allegedly) had WMD but did not use them when their existences were threatened. If not then, when?

I believed that an unsuccessful attempt to place WMD in Iraq had occurred, which would had been used to justify the invasion and provide evidence to support the accusation that Saddam had "the will" to attack the USA.

And now, the Libyan "rebels," whoever they truly are, have found the WMD which Gaddafi could have used because he had "the will" to use them.

Fears Gaddafi may replicate Iraq's Halabja gas attack
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/us-worries-gaddafi-may-use-poisonous-gas-chaos-deepens

Libya has in its possession 9.5 metric tons of mustard gas, and 650 metric tons of precursor chemicals used for developing chemical agents; in 2003, following the invasion of Iraq, Col. Gaddafi's government sent to the United States the critical infrastructure for its nuclear-weapons programs, including uranium hexafluoride stockpiles, centrifuge machines, and parts for a nuclear fuel-conversion facility; Libya also destroyed its longer-range missiles and 3,300 aerial munitions used to disperse mustard gas and other chemical agents; the program to eradicate Libya's chemical agents, as well as its chemical weapons production facility, was delayed by spats between Washington and Tripoli over funding and logistics; "When you have a guy who's as irrational as Gaddafi with some serious weapons at his disposal, it's always a concern," said a U.S. official

The government of Col. Moammar Gaddafi has not destroyed significant stockpiles of mustard gas and other chemical-weapons agents, raising fears in Washington about what could happen to them — and whether they may be used — as Libya slides further into chaos.

[dipsydoodle]

8. I didn't mean to imply

he'd have used the mustard gas if he'd had the capability to deliver it. Possibly just old stock that he didn't know what to do with / didn't necessarily give much thought to.

The issue now may not be whether or not he now uses but it falling into the hands of others.

I'd picked up about the 9.5 tonnes while I was out : don't know how to post links using my mobile.

Was here : I'm home again now.

"The whole of the Jufra area – we have been told it has been liberated," said Fathi Bashaagha, NTC spokesman, in Misurata. "There was a depot of chemical weapons and now it is under the control of our fighters."

His comments could not be confirmed independently. Under Gaddafi, Libya was supposed to have destroyed its stockpile of chemical weapons in early 2004 as part of a rapprochement with the West under which it also abandoned a nuclear programme.

However, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons says Libya kept 9.5 tonnes of mustard gas at a secret desert location, although it could no longer deliver it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8780601/Libyan-rebels-capture-Gaddafi-chemical-weapons-site.html

We had this on our tv news here in the UK yesterday - not sure what the delay was in it appearing in our newspapers until today.

[KansDem]

4. Libyan rebel forces must not have gotten the intelligence "wrong"

I'm happy someone is competent in this regard...

[tabatha]

10. what intelligence?

[KansDem]

12. True, they must have stumbled onto Gaddafi's WMDs

Too bad Bush didn't enjoy the same serendipity, but hey, it wasn't really about WMDs in the first place...

[plumbob]

11. Did they find the babies thrown from incubators yet?

Or the mobile chemical labs?

Saw this movie already, thanks.

[On the Road]

19. Geez,

you really think someone from the US, France, or England is (1) controlling the rebels, (2) bringing in chemical weapons from some other place, and (3) persuading them to make up a story about discovering these weapons?

Detecting propaganda requires critical thinking. The inability to distinguish between propaganda and actual events requires the suspension of all critical faculties.

[bemildred]

13. UN agency confirms raw uranium in Libya

"We can confirm that there is yellow cake (raw uranium) stored in drums at a site near Sabha in central Libya," International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) spokesman Gill Tudor said.

She said that the uranium, stored by the government of the now-fugitive Muammar Gaddafi, had been declared to the IAEA and that it hoped to be able to examine the material "once the situation in the country stabilises."

The alleged discovery appeared to contradict a statement from the United States last month, however, that all Libya's yellow cake was at another site at Tajura near Tripoli.

Raw or unprocessed uranium, which has low radioactivity levels, needs to be enriched using a highly complex and expensive procedure before it can be used in nuclear power generation or in atomic weapons.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8784507/UN-agency-confirms-raw-uranium-in-Libya.html

[Xithras]

14. Nothing secret here. The UN has controlled them for years.

The stockpile was very old (some dating back to WW2), and the delivery devices were already destroyed.

How do we know this? Because Kadaffi signed and agreement with the UN to destroy the stockpiles back in 2004, and the UN has had custody of the weapons and has been slowly destroying them ever since. The program was only abandoned in February, when the insurrection started and the UN workers fled the country to escape the fighting.

The chemical weapons are right where the UN left them.

[Prometheus Bound]

20. It's difficult to have much respect for the Guardian anymore.

[Odin2005]

21. Geez, now one of the most left-wing papers in Europe is geting thrown under the bus?

:eyes:

[Prometheus Bound]

22. Do you have any respect for this sort of blatant war propaganda?

Or do you find this sort of thing acceptable, pretending that these banned weapons were being hidden by the Ghadaffy regime, when in fact the destruction of these chemical weapons was being supervised by the UN.

Shame on the Guardian.

In 2004, Gadhafi agreed to dismantle his weapons of mass destruction, and his regime underscored its commitment by using bulldozers to crush 3,300 unloaded aerial bombs that could have been used to deliver chemical weapons.

Libya destroyed nearly 13.5 metric tons (15 tons) of sulfur mustard last year, about 54 percent of its stockpile. It received an extension to eliminate the rest by May 15, the organization said. Nearly 40 percent of the chemicals used to make sulfur mustard also have been destroyed since 2005, it said.

Twice-yearly inspections have found no evidence of Libya reviving the chemical weapons program.
http://news.yahoo.com/un-watchdog-says-libyan-chemical-weapons-secure-133249365.html

[Prometheus Bound]

23. Watchdog: Libya chemical weapons as expected

Watchdog: Libya chemical weapons as expected
Thu Sep 29, 10:57 am ET

AMSTERDAM – The international chemical weapons watchdog says stockpiles captured so far in Libya are in line with what Moammar Gadhafi's regime had previously declared, and no new weapons have been found.
http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110929/ap_on_re_eu/eu_libya_chemical_weapons

[Prometheus Bound]

24. OPCW Confirms Seized Libyan Chemical Agents Were Previously Declared

OPCW Confirms Seized Libyan Chemical Agents Were Previously Declared
Thursday, Sept. 29, 2011

The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons confirmed on Wednesday that a cache of chemical warfare materials recently seized by Libyan opposition rebels had been previously declared by the now-deposed regime of Muammar Qadhafi (see GSN, Sept. 28).

The Hague, Netherlands-based organization that oversees implementation of the Chemical Weapons Convention said in a press release it had no information from sources in Libya regarding any finds of toxic agents that had not been declared.
http://www.globalsecuritynewswire.org/gsn/nw_20110929_1301.php

[Prometheus Bound]

25. Watchdog: WMDs "found" in Libya aren't new

Watchdog: WMDs "found" in Libya aren't new
(AP)
September 29, 2011 12:54 PM
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - The international chemical weapons watchdog says stockpiles captured so far in Libya are in line with what Muammar Qaddafi's regime had previously declared, and no new weapons have been found.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/29/501364/main20113418.shtml