Chavez to seize homes and hotels for the poor on idyllic Los Roques

[Synicus Maximus]

Source: The Independent

Venezuela president Hugo Chavez's policy of nationalising strategic private businesses has taken a new twist with his announcement that his government will expropriate hotels and holiday homes at an upmarket Caribbean resort.

The president plans to turn Los Roques, an idyllic archipelago of deserted beaches of perfect white sand with swaying palms and dazzling coral reefs, into a state-run getaway for his country's urban poor.

Speaking on national television, he said that yachts and speedboats confiscated from fugitive bankers would be used to transport holidaymakers from the mainland. "There are some houses there that were illegally built. We are going to expropriate them."

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/chavez-to-seize-homes-and-hotels-for-the-poor-on-idyllic-los-roques-2367385.html

[tcaudilllg]

1. Interesting

This just might get the bankster's attention.

[BadtotheboneBob]

2. Um... Anybody for this?

Makes me feel a bit unsettled (No pun intended)

[cstanleytech]

8. Well if it was supposed to be a protected land and not to be developed I dont have a problem.

On the other hand the article does say his seizure of grocery chains isnt working to well with people having to que up USSR style as in hours in line so maybe he might want to rethink that part and proceed in a more balanced way on what he decides to seize but that last parts just my opinion.

[EFerrari]

13. You go build a home in Yosemite Valley and see what happens.

These stories are hilarious. The shocking headline, the nothing to them.

[bemildred]

31. I think it's great.

No nervousness whatsoever. Even on the downside, where you get some new set of kleptocrats, at least they got there by sucking up to the poor, not the rich.

[EFerrari]

33. LOL

[bemildred]

35. Hey.

:hi:

[unkachuck]

3. illegal private housing in a national park should be expropriated....

'...the archipelago, a national park, had in effect been privatised by Venezuelan and foreign members of "the upper bourgeoisie".'

....many would consider stealing from thieves a noble act....

[socialshockwave]

4. Private property is private for a reason, dildo Chavez.

Why don't those on the radical Left respect the concept of private property?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

12. Lmao. You build a mansion in a national park at your own risk.

Private property, my ass. It's federal land.

[L. Coyote]

24. I think I'll build one of these "private property" homes in Yellowstone, next to Old Faithful

"If I build it on National Park land, it is still my private property" and I'll have you to back me up :rofl:

[Occulus]

28. You didn't read the article.

The measure may turn out to be one of Mr Chavez's least controversial nationalisations. Los Roques was declared a protected area in 1972 and it is unclear why local authorities permitted any private properties on the islands, effectively allowing the archipelago to become one of Latin America's most exclusive beach destinations. Lying 95 miles off Venezuela's northern coast, Los Roques is a paradise for bird watchers, snorkellers and scuba-divers.

This was apparently the equivalent of someone building a home on protected land in Yosemite National Park. I'd fully expect that home to be seized and used for another purpose, if not outright razed, and the homeowner sent to jail, too. Shoving the wealthy's excesses and presumption into their faces by making it a vacation spot for the poor, who are transported there by boats seized from "fugitive bankers" (criminals, we can assume) is a very nice touch, though.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[McCamy Taylor]

5. Housing is good, but what about jobs? Will it all be service sector for tourists?

Unless everyone there has a job and enough money, there won't be very many tourists for fear of economic crime.

[valerief]

7. Woo hoo! Love it! Nice to see some Robin Hood action. It's ALWAYS the other way around. nt

[Little Tich]

9. President Chavez's nationalising spree destroys Venezuela.

He has already nationalised drilling rigs, telecommunications, steel, power and agriculture among other things. The subsequent mismanagement of these assets have made Venezuela into the worst performing economy in Latin America. Venezuela had a functioning economy before Chavez, now it's a third world dump. Only the oil keeps the country still tottering on the brink of collapse.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. Uh oh.

Now you've done it.

[christx30]

11. I know if I were in

Venezuela, and I was a little more wealthy than the average bear, I would not be there for long. I would sell/burn anything that I couldn't take with me and head to some other country that might give a rat's ass about private property rights.

[EFerrari]

15. The last time there was a headline about Chavez "seizing" a four star hotel

it turned out that the state was already the biggest stockholder.

And in this case, these people built homes in a national park.

These stories usually turn out to be "Chavez he evil" bullshit.

[christx30]

17. The question is

how long were these homes there? Are the people losing the homes getting compensation for their lost property? I know I would be pissed if the government one day decided to kick me out of my home. I would take anything that I had, and my future tax money, and I'd high tail it out of there.

[EFerrari]

18. The expropriations always involve compensation at market value

although, that value is always disputed.

On the other hand, it might be a good idea not to build your home on land you have no title to in the first place.

[L. Coyote]

27. You might want to read the article first, then comment.

[EFerrari]

14. Yeah, we've been hearing about this doom for ten years.

Get back to me when it happens.

[joshcryer]

20. Almost 30% annually.

It's coming to a head sooner or later.

[L. Coyote]

25. You are very ill-informed. Try watching "South of the Border" for a little intro

and then do some serious studying to correct your deficit.

[Little Tich]

41. Wikipedia: Economy of Venezuela

"A 2010 International Monetary Fund (IMF) study qualified as "delayed and weak" the economic recovery of Venezuela in comparison with other countries of the region that had emerged from the world economic crisis "comparatively well" and were now recovering to a "strong rhythm". According to figures from the Venezuelan Central Bank, the economy showed signs of improvement in the first quarter of 2011 when GDP rose between 3% and 4%."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela

Pay special attention to the discussion page, it seems some people think that the already negative depiction of the economy is too rosy. The people of Venezuela must get rid of this guy for their own sake. All the gasoline you can eat is not very filling when the store shelves are empty.

[joshcryer]

42. What's apalling about it is the lucrative bond sales subsidized by the state which foreign...

...investors are monopolizing on. I don't even want to get in to the missing $29 billion from Fonden (Chavez' 'personal' purse with which he can disperse how he wishes).

[Bo]

16. El Presidente for Life.....has destroyed the economy there

but...then agaon Chavez is a communist

[L. Coyote]

26. No, he is a Bolivarian Socialist.

[dipsydoodle]

19. Good.

.

[melm00se]

21. due process and adverse possession

the article didn't address it but where was the due process


as asked earlier about building a house in Yosemite, if the government seized the house, they would 1st have to prove that the house in question was actually in Yosemite and the owner would have the right to counter-sue.


Thre was another post asking how long the houses had been there. excellent point. there is a legal concept of adverse possession which might apply here.

[joshcryer]

22. Adverse possession almost never concerns government property. You can't, eg, squat on BLM land...

...and then ask for title. (Particularly so when BLM land leases are a few dollars an acre and perpetual leases are not unheard of.)

[EFerrari]

34. Adverse possession isn't going to work if the state decides

it needs the property just as it wouldn't work here.under eminent domain if the mayor's brother-in-law wants to build a shopping center.

[Dover]

23. "a getaway for his country's urban poor" ?

Hmmmm...I wonder how much leisure "getaway" time is available to the poor? Seems like he could be more effective by doing more to alleviate the class divide.
It just seems it's more about him and his bravado, playing the Robin Hood hero thing to the hilt.

[dotymed]

30. President Chavez has done more to alleviate "the class divide"

than any previous Venezuelan leader.

"Poor" people do not have or deserve "leisure time?" Without a program like this, the non-privileged would probably never have the opportunity to enjoy such a pristine environment. Of course, under capitalism, only people who have available excess cash are allowed to enjoy the finer things in life. Thank God that capitalism is not the only "financial" system in the world. In America, capitalism has replaced Democracy and, as witnessed by your comments, some Americans can not fathom the concept of high quality "leisure" unless you have first successfully capitalized from the sweat of your neighbor and claimed their labor as your profit.
Fortunately, MOST countries are NOT like America. In Europe the citizens are actually mandated a living wage, paid vacations (usually 5 weeks annually), free health care, etc. Americans have been sold "unfettered capitalism" since birth and most have no concept that it is the most destructive system known.

[Downwinder]

29. Terrible, he is going to make Los Roques like Florida.

[joshcryer]

37. Nah, election season is coming up, needs to make some gestures.

[JCMach1]

36. Occupy Palm Beach anyone?

[Chan790]

38. Occupy South Beach?

I'm willing to organize it. I'm pretty sure that the lefties at Art Basel will want to support such a thing too.

[Vidar]

39. Bravo, Hugo!

[Peace Patriot]

40. Bravo, Chavez! I wish we had such an FDR-like president here,

who would say, as FDR did, "Organized money hates me and I welcome their hatred!"

And here are some more statements that could have come from Chavez...

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt

“We have always known that heedless self interest was bad morals, we now know that it is bad economics.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt

“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt

“In these days of difficulty, we Americans everywhere must and shall choose the path of social justice…, the path of faith, the path of hope, and the path of love toward our fellow man.”
― Franklin D. Roosevelt

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/219075.Franklin_D_Roosevelt

-------------------

We were a great nation when our leaders were committed to a "New Deal" for all--to high employment, to decent wages, to a good education for all and other progressive values. We have sunk to the depths with our huge rich/poor discrepancy, with a few being billionaires and paying little or no taxes and everybody else struggling and being ripped off and the poor simply falling off the cliff. This is not America. This is fascism, as FDR aptly points out.

With the Chavez government, Venezuela has risen to being "THE most equal country in Latin America" on income distribution (according the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean), and the government has paid special attention to education, health care, labor conditions and wages, equitable tax collection and equal opportunity. It is a beautiful thing to behold when a people commits themselves to values like these and are able to elect leaders who share those values and, not only is this good for most Venezuelans now, but time will tell--as it did here--that progressive policies are good for everyone and for a nation as a whole. Venezuela had a huge economic surge during the 2003 to 2008 period due to these progressive policies, and then suffered an inevitable slowdown exacerbated by Bush's Depression--mainly due to the steep decline of oil prices. Someone upthread commented sourly that Venezuela's economy is based on oil. Well, duh! They have a lot of it--twice the reserves of Saudi Arabia, according to the USGS. And there is NO BETTER USE for the oil revenues than new and continued services for the poor--especially education and health care. That's what they have--oil. And the Chavez government is putting that resource to the best possible use for the future of Venezuela. They did wise belt-tightening in 2008-2009 but they did NOT cut social programs--the fatal mistake that is being made in the U.S.

Our decline began with Reagan, was masked for a time by the Clinton "bubble," and then surged over us like an evil dark wave with the Bush Junta. That evil is fascism. Now we are a failing nation, which basically sells war to the world and little else--while Venezuelans rate their well-being and hopes and dreams, in surveys for those factors, among the highest in the world. Who here would rate the U.S. as a place where well-being is high and hopes and dreams can be realized? Only the few--only the rich elite! Everybody else is suffering decline and depression. The bullshit that Venezuela's mixed socialist/capitalist economy is failing is fascist propaganda. Venezuelans in great numbers contradict it. They are doing well. They believe in the future. And it is THIS attitude, of its leaders, in reflection of the majority of Venezuelans--that the poor should have a beautiful place to relax in and enjoy nature, and the rich creeps who stole protected land in corrupt deals and built houses there provide the opportunity to benefit the poor in this way--that is MISSING HERE, among our leaders! The FDR attitude!

[dipsydoodle]

43. Kick

.