Air and Space Museum closes after guards clash with protesters

[ChandlerJr]

Source: washingtonpost.com

The Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum on the Mall was closed this afternoon after a “large group of protesters” tried to push past security guards and enter the museum, Smithsonian spokeswoman Linda St. John said.


A demonstrator lies on the ground at an entrance to the National Air and Space Museum after police pepper-sprayed a group of protesters trying to get into the museum Saturday. (Jose Luis Magana - AP) At least one demonstrator was pepper-sprayed by a museum guard in the confrontation, St. John said.

It was not immediately clear if the protesters were affiliated with the Occupy DC protest that sprung up last week as an offshoot of the larger Occupy Wall Street movement in New York.

The protesters.attempted to enter the museum through doors facing the National Mall. They were carrying large signs and other items not allowed inside the museum, St. John said.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post_now/post/2011/10/08/gIQAx0x2VL_blog.html

---

Who's Museum? Our Museum!

[DrDan]

1. stupid - a protest at WS makes a statement

at a museum, not so much.

A good way to lose support of the public in general.

[elleng]

20. Right.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. They were protesting the use of drones in Afghanistan

And there are several drones in that museum.

[Occulus]

68. The American Spectator conservative "magazine" provoked it

[bbinacan]

2. Why the air and space museum? n/t

[jwirr]

8. If it was a part of the Peace Demonstration then they might have some

explanation for protesting a museum of aircraft used in war. This does not make sense to me.

[Gore1FL]

3. Our museums have our rules too.

I am not happy that pepper spray was used, the museum was closed, or that there was a confrontation there in the first place.

Wall Street has nothing to do with those Museums. They are there for the 100%.

The Demonstrators were misguided on this one.

[formercia]

4. Perhhaps it was just street theater to discredit OWS.

False Flag?

[kas125]

9. These people were there because today is the 10th anniversary

of the war on Afghanistan. And although some of them also share the goals of the 99%, they were there today protesting the use of drones, not Wall Street.

[DrDan]

10. then wouldn't a protest at the Pentagon make more sense than at a museum?

just across the river if I remember correctly

[daleo]

16. Would the Pentagon allow a demonstration nearby? n/t

[DrDan]

17. so they go to a museum? Makes no sense.

How did this museum contribute to the 10-year war?

[ThomThom]

19. not likely at the Pentagon

they should have stayed out front
everyone would have seen and heard them
no reason to break the rules and mess with the people and guards
I'm sure there were people that came along way to see the museum and didn't get too
this doesn't help the cause

[quakerboy]

96. "they" did

The RW agitators was the one who went in.

[ChandlerJr]

24. You don't remember Levitate the Pentagon?

Here ya go young person, this is how ya do it.

After the speeches, about 50,000 people set off for the Pentagon. It took them about an hour and a half to walk two miles across the Memorial Bridge and down a service road to the north parking lot where a second rally was scheduled.
At the other end a group of hippies was trying to exorcize the Pentagon. The brainchild of Abbie Hoffman, the plan was for people to sing and chant until it levitated and turned orange, driving out the evil spirits and ending the war in Viet Nam. The Pentagon didn't move.



http://www.jofreeman.com/photos/Pentagon67.html

[FailureToCommunicate]

26. That WAS fun!

Our bus full of arrestees moved off to the processing location, yet after a while we made the driver stop and let us out, and we walked back to the protest.

[flamingdem]

61. I do remember that

:hi:

Abbie was the best. Creative.

[daleo]

102. I vaguely recall "Armies of the Night" by Norman Mailer

I think it was based on a demonstration at the Pentagon circa 1970. I have my doubts about such a thing being permitted today. Authorities would probably claim it was too big a security threat.

[FailureToCommunicate]

25. Of course not - but that's the point. Freedom of assembly EXCEPT

at the following scared cows...

Protests at the Pentagon are aways my favorite - fresh air, sunshine, bright colored police buses to haul away citizens...

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Anti war groups have been planning October protests in DC for nearly a year

It's the tenth anniversary of the war on Afghanistan.

[Gore1FL]

35. So Picketing the Lunar Lander and the Spirit of St. Louis helps how?

Why not protest Nationals Park or the McPherson Square Metrolink station? They have at least as relevant of a connection as the Air and Space Museum.

One would think if they had a year to plan they would have been able to do something sensible, rational, and something that would unite people to their cause.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. It's the drones

There are several in that museum.

[kas125]

39. They had a special exhibit on drones, that's why they protested

there today. Tomorrow there's another big drone protest at Creech Airforce Base.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. There are several on permanent display

[kas125]

40. Oh, and today's protest at the museum was led by 50 members

of VFP. And CodePink. Tighe did a banner drop and from the pictures it looks as if he was arrested. Real agent provacateurs, lol.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. A friend is there

and ran into Lobo.

Sounds like they are having a great time. :hi:

[EFerrari]

47. Nobody bothers to read the article at these links, do they. n/t

[Gore1FL]

48. A drones exhibit are a stupid reason to protest

Let's protest at the planetarium next, because they show Mars, and Mars is the God of war.

Protests at museums should be done only if they refuse to have an exhibit for political purposes.

All this does is get warranted bad press.

[EFerrari]

49. No, protesting the exhibition of weapons that are being used to kill people

in at least five countries is perfectly legitimate. How the protest was put together needed work, but objecting to the display itself is fair.

[Gore1FL]

50. Should we remove swords from museums too? n/t

[EFerrari]

55. Peace movements have always protested weapons. n/t

[Gore1FL]

58. At museums?

I haven't heard of it before.

Let's all make a road rip to Gettysburg National Military Park and picket the cannons!

After that we can go to Pearl Harbor and spit at the Arizona memorial!!

[EFerrari]

73. Yes, wherever weapons are enshrined. n/t

[Gore1FL]

77. Because we must always ignore history in museums!

God forbid they be something other than propaganda!

I mean, what would drone aircraft have to do with the history of aviation, right?


If you want to protest the use of drones, how about at least aiming your protest to something responsible for them.

What is next? Are you going to protest the Holocaust museum because there are displays that mention NAZIs?

[EFerrari]

80. The *Holocaust* Museum's position is already anti-Nazi

Analogy FAIL.

[Gore1FL]

85. The air and space museum is pro air and space

and not pro weapon.

You failed when you started down your untenable path of illogical silliness.

[EFerrari]

91. Name calling is not logic.

And before you evaluate the drone display, you'd have to see it. Have you?

And of course, Boeing is the Museum's largest private donor.

Boeing:

Boeing is among the largest global aircraft manufacturers by revenue, orders and deliveries, and the third largest aerospace and defense contractor in the world based on defense-related revenue.<3> Boeing is the largest exporter by value in the United States.<4> Its stock is a component of the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing

[Gore1FL]

103. I never called you a name

I said your arguments were silly.

Look at post 101. The people who agree with you were **PROVOCATEURS**.

[Gore1FL]

89. And furthermore:

You are justifying protesting this application of drones too.

Unarmed versions of the military Predator drone already patrol thinly populated stretches of the nation’s borders. Predators have also been flown over cities to assess damage after hurricanes, floods and earthquakes.When smoke grounded other aircraft during a 2009 forest fire in Circle, Alaska, a drone provided infrared imagery that allowed officials to determine that no evacuation was necessary. And during the accident this spring at Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, the world’s largest drone analyzed the emergency from high altitude, while a backpack-size drone inspected the crippled reactors at close quarters.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Drones-are-Ready-for-Takeoff.html#ixzz1aJHsHQAW

This further discredits your arguments even further.

[Occulus]

66. If the Secretary of Defense had a ceremonial sword,

and that sword were making a tour of the country, I would expect that sword to be protested.

Not sure what exactly you're complaining about, here.

[Gore1FL]

69. That's absurd on the face of it.

I am complaining that a misdirected protest that will accomplish little but bad press is going to be confused with the legitimate OWS events.

Protesting the Smithsonian over drone attacks is like invading Iraq because of 9/11.

[quakerboy]

95. RW plants instigated it

And published their tale, boasting of provoking it in the "american spectator" magazine.

[Gore1FL]

104. It figures n/t

[Faygo Kid]

5. This makes no sense and detracts from a powerful message.

The Smithsonian truly does belong to the people, even if the Kochs try to buy their way in. This is not cool, if it's truly the OWS protesters. I want more information.

[Pirate Smile]

6. Not helpful.

[quakerboy]

98. Thats why the RW did it.

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/08/standoff-in-dc/print

[Ian David]

7. Come on, man. Just admit you wanted an excuse to see the Apollo capsule. n/t

[bigworld]

11. I was there and I was surprised when I heard a small group of folks asking others if they were

going to the museum next. I thought that was odd... maybe they're going to do some sightseeing when they're here, I thought.

In any case, a stupid move which will only take away from their legitimate concerns.

[ProgressoDem]

12. Aaaand this is how independents get turned off.

These idiots ought to know that they probably just swayed a few tens of thousands of people against OWS. Thanks guys!

[BiggJawn]

15. Mission Accomplished.

I don't think they were "our" people.

[EFerrari]

46. LOL. No seriious person is going to turn away

because there was a protest of drones killing people in Afghanistan -- or Iraq, or Pakistan or Yemen or Somalia.

[ProgressoDem]

54. Wrong. Mainstream people will turn away.

Causing a ruckus at the Air and Space Museum of all places makes them look silly. Silly is what the MSM wants OWS to appear to be.

[EFerrari]

56. "Mainstream people" got us exactly here. They're nothing to write home about.

God forbid the sheep be made uncomfortable on their way to the slaughter.

And no serious person is going to expect the corporate media to reflect a popular movement. Hello.

[ProgressoDem]

59. Mainstream people got tricked by the corporate media.

We shouldn't give them more reasons to use to convince mainstream America of their position. Who, by the way, hold the voting power in this country.

[EFerrari]

74. A "power" they notoriously do not use.

Something to remember while you're lecturing people you don't agree with on the "majority". And the corporate media already has a reason to diss popular movements -- their paycheck. You can't negotiate with that, you have to subvert it.

[ProgressoDem]

84. They do use the power.

But the corporate media convinces them to buy into bull.

How do you propose that OWS should see our goals accomplished? As the minority? That's awfully democratic... We need to convince the masses to our side, not be obnoxious and ostracize regular folks.

[EFerrari]

86. You seem a little confused about who #OWS is.

We are regular folks, hence the 99%.

[ProgressoDem]

90. 99% of America is supporting OWS?

That's news to me.

They should be supporting #OWS. But as you said, mainstream America gets duped. It's easy to paint the whole movement as radicals when a tiny group of people do silly things like try to cause trouble in the Air and Space Museum.

[EFerrari]

92. First, it has been established that the troublemaker at the museum

was the editor of a right win rag, not #OWS.

Second, no one is 'painting" the entire movement as "radicals" unless you mean grass roots, which is was "radical" means.

[quakerboy]

99. No idiots

RW plants. And you bought in.

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/08/standoff-in-dc/print

[BiggJawn]

13. Agent Provacateurs

Weren't we cautioned to be aware of people, even if they had tell-tale traces of Hippie on their chin, who suggested tearing shit up or setting fires?

They'll (the 1%)try ANYTHING to get an excuse to bring in the bulldozers.

[TheWraith]

18. A typical excuse, one used by every large protest from any side.

It's a very convenient way to insist that none of "our people" could ever do the slightest thing wrong that would reflect badly on (Occupy Wall Street/the Tea Party/anti-war groups/vermeil protesters/other). :eyes:

[tammywammy]

30. +1 n/t

[Posteritatis]

34. Yep. (nt)

[BiggJawn]

43. You have, I assume, PROOF that this is NOT happening? n/t

[bvar22]

70. "The American Spectator admits to being involved....

... in the precipitation of violence at the Air and Space Museum as a means of discrediting the Occupy Movement."

"The American Spectator admits to being involved in the precipitation of violence at the Air and Space Museum as a means of discrediting the Occupy Movement.

It has been openly reporting about its "plants" among the protesters and their actions to get certain things to occur. Included in this, today, was the presence - and central role played by - of Patrick Howley, its Assistant Editor, in sparking the police reaction and violence."




http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/08/1024352/-Conservative-Magazine-Brags-of-its-Agent-Provacateurs-Role-in-Provoking-Police-Action-in-DC-?via=siderec

We await your retraction and apology.
:eyes:



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[hack89]

81. Read his account - he was not a central player

he certainly was not involved in the planning. And there certainly was no violence on his part - he was pepper sprayed, got in the building, and ran until he could find an exit.

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/08/standoff-in-dc/print

[bvar22]

94. This story is growing legs.

Glad to see the Washington Post pick this up.
Sad to see the attempts on DU to discredit the protest movement.

"Conservative journalist says he infiltrated, escalated D.C. museum protest"


"A conservative journalist has admitted to infiltrating the group of protesters who clashed with security at the Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum on Saturday — and he openly claims to have instigated the events that prompted the museum to close."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/conservative-journalist-says-he-infiltrated-escalated-dc-museum-protest/2011/10/09/gIQAIKxCYL_blog.html

You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[hack89]

97. But didn't the protesters plan to occupy the museum and hang banners?

what exactly did he do that they were not planning to do?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

71. Maintaining your record of being 100% wrong about everything is admirable.

:patriot:


"But as far as anyone knew I was part of this cause -- a cause that I had infiltrated the day before in order to mock and undermine in the pages of The American Spectator --"
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/08/standoff-in-dc/print

[hack89]

79. Looks like he was simply along for the story - it was not his idea.

"At that assembly, the "Action Committee" for the protest movement organized by October2011.com suggested storming the museum in order to state their opposition to American militarism, which they perceive as a root cause of the federal deficit."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

105. Wonderful!

[quakerboy]

100. They admitted it.

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/08/standoff-in-dc/print.

Go roll your eyes somewhere else. Its one thing to say that OWS protestors can do things wrong. They have and they will. They are human, and there are both well and questionably intentioned among them. However to blame this on them, when it has been admitted by the RW that they did this is just asinine.

[iamthebandfanman]

51. while no doubt some exist

in every protest..
i think youre really going out on a limb for an excuse..

i highly doubt all the people involved were payed agents..
which begs the question..
why were others stupid enough to follow the idiots who were attempting this?



this helps nothing and is pointless as well as meaningless ..

no excuses, it was dumb.

hope that message is being spread to others as well... dont do stupid shit.

[Electric Monk]

93. Read this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5021099

[madrchsod]

14. remember...... there are assholes and provocateurs in every crowd

[NBachers]

21. Bad move.

[elleng]

22. Any relation, ya think?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5020467

[alp227]

23. The Smithsonian is AWESOME - you gotta be STOOPID to want to occupy that

unless the Smithsonian were putting on creationist displays.

[AngryOldDem]

64. That was my first thought.

Great way to undermine any message you're trying to get across -- shut down one part of one of the world's premier museums. I believe the Smithsonian Institute itself has one of the first cash register machines ever made. I hope the protesters don't catch on to that.

[liberal N proud]

27. Use of force, any force destroys the integrity of the protests

[SoapBox]

28. Something is just weird about this "protest"...

AND that it was immediately labeled (but unsure!) with the OWS folks.

I love how the "media" says shit like this only to later find that it was some nut. BUT, the
damage is already done with an initial news release.

[unionworks]

29. unmanned drone exhibit

That is what they were trying to protest

[YOHABLO]

33. The Air and Space Museum?

What does protests and the A&S Museum got to do with drones in Afghanistan? Perhaps they would have done better to go over to the Pentagon.

[KoKo]

36. Preserving "unmanned killing" as a piece of history. Offensive,

to many....

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. +1

I wanted to vomit when I saw the drones in that museum.

[kas125]

41. Apparently, for some people it's not quite so offensive if they

like the guy whose in charge of doing it.

[BiggJawn]

44. How many drones do they have at the ASM, anyway?

I wasn't aware they had drones on display. I figured you'd find them at the Wright-Pat museum.

[iamthebandfanman]

52. they do have some,

but i am unaware if they have any of the current armed latest versions..

they have some from WW2 and previous wars ... all of which were unarmed as far as i know (im no expert lol)


regardless, its a lame excuse.

we should treasure museums. they teach us the rights AND WRONGS of history. most of the time ;)

[ProgressoDem]

53. I guess museums shouldn't have anything bad in them. n/t

[EFerrari]

57. That is the authoritarian position.

The progressive position, or a progressive position, is that we have a First Amendment and people are free to protest weapons used to kill civilians indiscriminately using their money and in their name.

[ProgressoDem]

60. ???

My post was sarcastic. Museums should have good and bad things in them. They're supposed to educate. Furthermore, I'll try to ignore your insinuation I'm not progressive. But just as they are free to protest, I am free to hold the opinion that they are silly and unwise.

[Gore1FL]

62. I think we should protest libraries next!

They, not doubt, have history books that discuss war! That must be just plain wrong!

In fact, let's check out those books and burn them!!!

[EFerrari]

76. People protest at libraries all the time.

You are conflating free speech with destructiveness, which is a very odd conflation for a progressive to make.

[Gore1FL]

78. Link to where liberal protested a library becasue of the presense of a book .

Until that time, please quit trying to justify idiocy with unsupported anecdotes and illogical arguments.

Assuming you are actually able to come up with something, please be prepared to support your "It's been done before so it's makes perfect sense" line of reasoning, because that is what I plan to target next.

[EFerrari]

82. It's "presence" and you're free to prove your own strawman. n/t

[Gore1FL]

88. My strawman?

You are the one so sure of all of this.

I am calling you out on your alleged "facts" and your logical fallacies. I am more than happy to keep this going, but if you are unable to support your claims, I'll just assume victory and let you lick your rhetorical wounds.

Every museum that has a weapon must be protested, per you. God forbid we give people facts and information let them decide as reasonable people.

Do you think people are too stupid to make decisions based on facts and logic? So you need to distort and hide things from the public in case they come to a different conclusion than you feel is right?

Did you protest the Chicago Museum of Science and History? They have a WWII German U-boat! They have a Nazi weapon "enshrined."

Elephants were used as weapons by Hannibal. You protesting zoos next? The not only "enshrine this animals" they feed and study them!

Get your signs ready! In the Eisenhower Presidential Library there are swords, pistols and artillery "enshrined!"

Ever go to Shiloh? They have civil War cannons "enshrined" all over the place.

At one end of Pearl Harbor the the U.S.S. Arizona Monument. There could be no better example of "enshrined" Down a way is the "enshrined" U.S.S. Missouri. It was in service in the 1980s.


So let's review:

* Your choice of protests is dubious, at least by your own definition of why it is being protested.
* The protest is directed not at the people using the drone as a weapon, but at a place that is using it for education
* The protest (at best) detracts from, and more likely gives bad associative press to another protest that doesn't need your bad press. So not only are you doing more harm than good to your cause, you are hindering another.

If you don't understand any of this, then you are willfully blinding yourself to the obvious and harming worthwhile causes.

Until you can come up with an actual sensible reason that isn't layered in nonsense and fallacy please don;t waste my time.

[AngryOldDem]

63. You may not like it, but drones have become a part of aviation history.

And that is what a museum is for -- to document and preserve that history.

If the protesters keep this kind of stuff up, they will lose a lot of mainstream support. Guaranteed.

[tawadi]

42. This takes away some the credibility of other protesters

It's really unfortunate.

[CJCRANE]

65. Conservative Magazine Brags of its Agent Provacateur's Role in Provoking Police Action in D.C.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2084473

[SpartanDem]

67. Just plain stupid

protesting a musuem display is stupid in the first place, but that's not real issue. It was completely unnecessary trying force there way in they could've got message out acting like adults and respecting the museums rules.

[JHB]

75. Check the link at #63

An assistant editor for the conservative American Spectator was the guy leading the push through the doors.

[slackmaster]

83. Let's screw over people who used precious vacation time and spent their savings to see DC!

That will REALLY win them over!

[arikara]

87. THEY WERE PROVOCATEURS

And they got the desired result. Stories about the occupation today are leading with that one act, and the true story is being sidelined once again. And even though the provocateurs have admitted to doing it, the MSM will never retract the lies.

[Gore1FL]

101. And Scene...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2084473

The American Spectator admits to being involved in the precipitation of violence at the Air and Space Museum as a means of discrediting the Occupy Movement.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

106. Interesting that you have no comment on the fact that right wing douchebags caused

the commotion in the first place.