Scientists’ Analysis Disputes F.B.I. Closing of Anthrax Case

[alp227]

Source: NYT

A decade after wisps of anthrax sent through the mail killed 5 people, sickened 17 others and terrorized the nation, biologists and chemists still disagree on whether federal investigators got the right man and whether the F.B.I.’s long inquiry brushed aside important clues.

Now, three scientists argue that distinctive chemicals found in the dried anthrax spores — including the unexpected presence of tin — point to a high degree of manufacturing skill, contrary to federal reassurances that the attack germs were unsophisticated. The scientists make their case in a coming issue of the Journal of Bioterrorism & Biodefense.

F.B.I. documents reviewed by The New York Times show that bureau scientists focused on tin early in their eight-year investigation, calling it an “element of interest” and a potentially critical clue to the criminal case. They later dropped their lengthy inquiry, never mentioned tin publicly and never offered any detailed account of how they thought the powder had been made.

The new paper raises the prospect — for the first time in a serious scientific forum — that the Army biodefense expert identified by the F.B.I. as the perpetrator, Bruce E. Ivins, had help in obtaining his germ weapons or conceivably was innocent of the crime.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/science/10anthrax.html?pagewanted=all

[applegrove]

1. I saw the documentary on the Ivans case and he seems exactly like

the psychopath who stalked me. Also like Ted Bundy (obssessed with a woman who had turned him down). I never followed the case before but now am sure it is Ivans.

[EFerrari]

2. Then you need to "follow" some more. Bruce Ivins never hurt anyone.

When he had meltdowns, he drank, wrote to his friends and went to a shrink. That's not the M.O. of a stalker or a psychopath.

[harun]

11. He committed suicide, I'd call that hurting someone.

[EFerrari]

12. That's correct. He and his family were stalked and harrassed by the FBI

who rented the house nest door during their "investigation".

[mod mom]

14. + 1

propaganda seems to always flow from the same spigot. :eyes:

[msanthrope]

37. He was stalked??? Ah--the irony. He stalked a sorority for 24 years, and terrorized

a student merely because she had rejected him.

I have no idea if he was the anthrax killer. But I don't think he was a cute and cuddly scientist.

As for the FBI moving in next door, I might not have reacted to such with the purchase of more ammo and an bulletproof vest, but to each their own.

[EFerrari]

40. False. That didn't happen. n/t

[msanthrope]

49. Yes. It did. Are you accusing Wikipedia of fabricating evidence that he edited the sorority's

page repeatedly? Are you accusing the stalking victim of lying?

You know, EFerrarri--sometimes there are criminals who do bad things. Sometimes, a harassed criminal is still a criminal.

[HowHeThinks]

13. Not if the pain of living.........

was greater than the pain of dying. In some circumstances there is a certain nobility in taking one's own life. Your mileage may vary.

[ThoughtCriminal]

33. I have doubts about the suicide

I'm not on board with most of the conspiracy theories out there, but even the suicide doesn't add up.

[defendandprotect]

61. +1 --

[applegrove]

34. He targetted a woman and a sorority because he was rejected. I can't tell

you how dangerous it is to 'gaslight' somebody. It can kill and I imagine often does. It is a wonder I am still alive. It hurts.

[EFerrari]

41. There is no evidence that he "targeted" that woman.

And talking to people in a sorority on the intertubes is neither criminal nor stalking.

[applegrove]

46. He send a letter to the editor of the local paper in her name. He was

constantly asking her about the sorority. They probably have not figured out 1/40th of what he did to torment those people. That is how psychopaths roll!

[msanthrope]

54. Bruce Ivins is a FireDogLake martyr. Therefore, he's a sacrificial

lamb to TPTB. And no woman--especially no woman claiming herself to be a victim of his psychopathy is going to be believed.

See, Assange, Julian...

[defendandprotect]

65. A psychopath stalked you ... ????

[msanthrope]

50. Breaking into her home, stealing her research, and then continuing to harass her isn't evidence?

Okay. Look, sometimes a harassed criminal is still a criminal.

[defendandprotect]

62. And before Ivins they were harrassing another scientist -- Hatfield, was it?

Who seemingly had the sense to fight back quickly ---

[msanthrope]

36. Well, the woman he stalked was hurt. Stealing someone's possessions, B&E, mailing

24 years worth of letters......that's one creepy ass stalker. You might want to read up on his 24 year obsession with Kappa Kappa Gamma. It's one hell of a coincidence that the first anthrax letter was mailed from outside one of their admin buildings.

When the search of your house turns up crap like this--

"The documents also revealed the results of searches of Ivins' property, including the contents of a black briefcase -- Glock 34, Glock 27 and Beretta pistols, makeup and "false hair," and a copy of Albert Camus' book "The Plague."

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/07/nation/na-ivins7/2

Then you are definitely a person of interest.

[EFerrari]

42. How do you know he stalked anyone?

You don't.

[msanthrope]

51. I think the Associated Press story on the extent of his stalking of

the microbiologist, and the sorority pretty much sums it up....

I mean, are we to believe that Wikipedia was complicit in framing him??? Are we to believe that the FBI just happened to manufacture decades-old incidents? Are we to believe that the stalking victim herself is lying?

You know, sometimes a harassed criminal is just a criminal....



Microbiologist Claims Lone Anthrax Suspect Bruce Ivins Stalked Her for Decades
Associated Press

Saturday, August 09, 2008

In an interview Friday, Kappa Kappa Gamma executive director Lauren Sullivan Paitson said the FBI asked in August 2007 for help documenting decades' worth of Ivins' contacts with the sorority, including breaking into the now-closed chapter house at the University of Maryland. The sorority disbanded at Maryland in 1992.

But before being contacted by the FBI, Paitson had been engaged in an editing war on Wikipedia.com with a writer by the name of "jimmyflathead" who threatened to post secret rituals and bad publicity about the sorority on the Web site.

Court affidavits listed "[e-mail]" among Ivins personal e-mail addresses.

Only after the government asked for the sorority's help did Paitson realize that the online Kappa nemesis was the top suspect in the anthrax investigation.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400941,00.html#ixzz1aTiqzmDq

[applegrove]

59. He stole her lab notes university and thew them in a mail box. Lab notes

would be her whole year with no backup copies. After a few hours of torture he finally anon let her know where her notes were and she was able to retrieve them with the help of the police from a mailbox. The psychopaths like the torture. They like to see their victims struggle. He certainly did.

[mike_c]

28. you formed a negative (vicarious) first impression and on that basis...

...you're prepared to accept that he's a mass murderer? More than prepared to accept it-- you're "sure" it was him, despite admitting ignorance of the facts in the case. I hope you never sit on a jury!

[msanthrope]

35. The sorority stalking that Ivins did was disgusting and creepy. He definitely could have been the

anthrax maker and mailer--if you look at the pattern of harassment and boundary crossing he did to Kappa Kappa, then you get the idea that he didn't have much restraining him.

I just got a PM suggesting I read a book on this case called "Mirage Man." It seems to be a pretty good read about how Ivins helped implicate Hatfill and fooled investigators for years.

[defendandprotect]

63. There's no proof that Ivins did any of this -- and it's overworking the

CIA's/Warren Report -- i.e., Oswald was a psychopath capable of anything so don't bother

with any details of what happened that day!


Even if there was any proof that Ivins ever harrassed any woman how does that PROVE that

he is responsible for the Anthrax attack?


Rather, it is far more likely that that Bush/Cheney needed to shut down Congress immediately

after 9/11 cause too much info was coming in from citizens about what really happened --

and they put their "privatized" military in play to work up some Anthrax --

In fact, didn't Rumsfeld have stronger connections to Anthrax than Ivins did?



:eyes:

[msanthrope]

76. Downthread I posted his own lawyer saying he was fixated on the sorority.

Not for anything, but if his own lawyer thinks he's off on the sorority, I wouldn't gainsay it.

[defendandprotect]

89. More like ....

you are fixated on connecting Ivins to Anthrax --

:rofl: --


And quite sure you're supposed to be on IGNORE --

Bye --

[defendandprotect]

64. You're comparing a man you never knew to Ted Bundy .....

whom I presume you also never knew?

[tabasco]

81. You're defending a man you never knew?

Funny how that works both ways!

[defendandprotect]

85. Quite different from suggesting personal insights which make him Ted Bundy-!!

Everyone here is questioning and challenging the case against Ivins -- and in fact,

Stephen Hatfill -- based on a LACK of evidence vs Ivins or Hatfill which is being made

clear by scientists NOT connected to government --


Again, there is more evidence for Rumsfeld/Pentagon -- Poppy Bush/Carlyle Group --

involvement in the attacks than anyone else!

That's where the motivation is --


Even those trying to turn him into a "Ted Bundy" have had to admit that they have no idea

if he was involved in the Anthrax mailing -- !





"Ivins had no contact with any members of the sorority or their chapter houses

since 1981"

[applegrove]

88. I'm comparing how they both became obsessed with a woman

who turned them down..then became obsessed with women who represented that over decades. Yes. That's how psychopaths roll. It is called pattern recognition or thinking.

[defendandprotect]

90. And you know so much about psychopaths .... because "a psychopath was stalking you" ... ???

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=5021400&mesg_id=5021416

[applegrove]

91. I lived it for 22 years. Are you saying life experience does not count?

[defendandprotect]

93. You had a "psychopath stalking you for TWENTY-TWO years" ... ????

Did you get the Ripley's "Believe it or Not" Award -- ???


Think that 22 years must have set some kind of a record -- :eyes:

[applegrove]

94. Spreading rumours about me, isolating me from my friends, messing with my shit all

because I turned him down in a bar when he was a weirdo. Denied he was a sociopath and had me misdiagnosed. It was hell. A series of felonies. Just keep on rolling your eyes that was a nice touch.

I'm curious. Why are you so sure he is innocent vs say the average criminal who finds himself subject of an investigation? How do you come by this special knowledge in this special case. Cause you do strike me as special.

[defendandprotect]

95. And how did it go on for TWENTY TWO years -- ????

[applegrove]

96. I'm a polyanna and don't see danger often. I was misdiagnosed. He changed

the thinking of those around me. I hung on. And since I'm still standing and pretty much sane - I persevered in the end. For the first 8 years I had no idea he was all over my life or that he existed. I just thought my friend were being unkind, my workplaces were bad luck, etc.

[defendandprotect]

98. Well .....

What do you mean .... You were "misdiagnosed" .... ????

and ....

8 years of being completely oblivious still leaves FOURTEEN YEARS -- !!!

You have to have set the record for being stalked -- even for being stalked

and not knowing it !!!!


:eyes:

[applegrove]

99. You still have not shared with us your special power to discern what crimes

investigated are wrong or not. Surely you are going on gut emotions. sarcasmOr perhaps you are a operative of the gop paid to create wedges between the authorities and the left???? sarcasm

[defendandprotect]

101. Those challenging the official conclusions here are looking at the lack of evidence ....

at what scientists -- WHO ARE NOT PAID BY GOVERNMENT -- are saying about the

investigation. Even the FBI wondered if government scientists might have been

intimidated into implicating Hatfill!


This has nothing to do with any PERSONAL feelings about Ivins --


Clearly, you are unable to withstand any challenges to your own claims --

You probably should have been on IGNORE long ago --

and you're there now --


Bye --

[EFerrari]

3. This is how the NYTs presstitutes buttress the official bs.

Scientists don't "disagree" on whether the FBI got the right man. There is no scientist that agrees with the FBI that isn't on their frickin' payroll. That's the real first sentence of this story.

ETA And Scott Shane, who used to be a very decent reporter, knows very well that "serious" scientific forums like Meryl Nass's blog and others have questions this story from "go". Shame on you, Scott Shane.

[AntiFascist]

4. Some of the most relevant information came out in December of 2001...

pointing at the involvement of scientists at the Dugway Proving Ground in Utah:

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/armyweaponsgradeanthrax.html

Richard Spertzel, a former Army colonel who directed the U.N. biological weapons inspection team in Iraq, scoffed last week at the idea of a "bio-bomber," a disgruntled or deranged scientist crafting a lethal anthrax weapon alone in a basement lab.

"The quality of the product contained in the letter to Senator Daschle was better than that found in the Soviet, U.S. or Iraqi program, certainly in terms of the purity and concentration of spore particles," Spertzel said in testimony Dec. 5 to the House Committee on International Relations, apparently referring to the U.S. offensive program that ended in 1969.

[dotymed]

15. Me and my tin-foil hat..

Does anyone else remember the international bout of very strange deaths that occurred to microbiologists during the bush administration? IMO, there is a definite connection. Something that we are not supposed to know.

[AntiFascist]

27. dead men tell no tales n/t

[defendandprotect]

97. I've wondered about this .....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=5021400&mesg_id=5023461


That was in regard to Hatfill -- but presume that they would have done the

same in trying to implicate Ivins.

Eventually, these people -- I'm guessing -- tend to figure out what you're

trying to cover up and you need to get rid of them?



Hatfill was just stronger -- and presume he had a great lawyer?

Ivins was more vulnerable personally --

[defendandprotect]

66. Agree ...

and it was the Bush/Cheney government which had the motivation to shut down

Congress and kill Daschle -- and Leahy --

Also to shut down Congress and communications with citizens who were protesting

the 2000 election steal --

Even still today, mail for members of Congress is being radiated -- or is it

irradiated -- and it takes 3 weeks or more before it "dries" and is sent on to

the Congress member!!

[AntiFascist]

67. I don't know if the intent was to actually kill Daschle directly...

but the killing of people handling the mail terrorized Democrats sufficiently enough so that we ended up with the compromised government that we have today. It shows that terrorism works, particularly when it is directed by those higher up.

[defendandprotect]

83. True -- but we can't say that wasn't the intent, either -- !!

The doses were deadly -- less that which killed and injured postal workers!


Violence wins against everything -- we have never found a solution to violence and

the few among us always ready to use it --

We've had 50 and more years of RW political violence in America which took not only

our president but our people's government -- and much more!

[Charronxyz]

5. motivation motivation motivation

Why deliberately create a massive panic among the population and falsely blame dangerous Muslim, who would have the motivation, and what purpose would it serve, even Inspector Cluzo would figure this one out.

[certainot]

6. wasn't the anthrax scare what helped push the 'patriot' act through? daschle and the other dem recip

pient had to evacuate their offices.... or am i confusing two bush crime family crimes....

[Charronxyz]

7. "wasn't the anthrax scare what helped push the 'patriot' act"

Yes, among other things...

[think4yourself]

10. Exactly.

For me, that's the smoking gun. The biggest opponents were the ones who suddenly received weapons grade anthrax in the mail. Daschle? Of all the members of Congress? Come on. The whole thing has been stinking to high Heaven for years. After a few weeks, you never even heard about
Anthrax again. They achieved their goal of scaring the sheep with the dreaded anthrax.

[defendandprotect]

68. Rumsfeld -- and Bush's Carlyle Group -- have stronger connections to Anthrax ....

than Bruce Ivins did --

In fact, Donald Rumsfeld during Reagan Administration worked to gift Saddam Hussein

with many chemical and biological weapons -- including ANTHRAX --

To prevent Iraqi defeat in the Iran-Iraq war, which was started by Iraq and lasted from 1980 to 1988, the Reagan Administration began supplying Saddam with battlefield intelligence on Iranian troop movements.

By the end of the decade, Washington had authorised the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications. These included poisonous chemicals and biological viruses, among them anthrax and bubonic plague.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article807098.ece

And later pushed Anthrax vaccine on military --

http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com/allposts/project-anthrax-the-cover-up-part-four-the-bioport-loop-hatfill-special-forces-introduction-to-vaxgen-ivins-redux-rumsfeld

[Bonobo]

45. Ding ding ding.

How anyone could ignore the motives is beyond me.

[Devil_Fish]

8. Oh ya, you mean the terror attack that happend on Bush's watch after 9/11

That Anthrax Case?

[EFerrari]

9. Yeah, the SECOND national terror attack that happened on Bush's watch. n/t

[truedelphi]

30. Thank you for attempting to keep us well informed.

CNN had an hour long special on this that went after one and only one person - Ivins.

I trust CNN as I easily as I could face Wolf Blitzer over a beer.

(Which means not at all.)

[EFerrari]

32. Once you're aware of the frame, it's so obvious.

This morning, PJCrowley tweeted that he was having a "great" discussion in his national security course, which I presume he's teaching. "What must a government share with its citizens?"

http://twitter.com/#!/PJCrowley/status/123448533251665921


His first assumption is that governments must withhold information. Astonishing.

[truedelphi]

47. Thanks for the link. I guess if governments withholding info is number one,

Then shutting off the internets must be item two.

Especially if such communication is bringing about a mass movement.

[Wilms]

16. ^

[Ganja Ninja]

17. 3 words - False Flag Attack!

No rogue scientist. It was weapons grade anthrax not research anthrax. If it were otherwise it wouldn't have additives. This was a criminal attack perpetrated by the Bush administration.

[Supersedeas]

18. the post 9/11 terrorist attack that the Media continues to ignore

[OnyxCollie]

19. Doesn't matter. The Obama administration is all in when it comes to vaccines.

Emergent BioSolutions Signs Contract with BARDA/NIAID, Valued at Up to $29.7
Million, to Fund Development of AV7909 - A Next Generation Anthrax Vaccine
--AV7909 Contract is in Addition to Recently Announced $24 Million
Development Contract for Anthrax Monoclonal and Pending Proposal to Supply
HHS with Up to 25 Million Doses of a Recombinant Anthrax Vaccine
http://investors.emergentbiosolutions.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=202582&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1202589&highlight=

ROCKVILLE, Md.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 12, 2008--Emergent BioSolutions Inc.
(NYSE:EBS) announced today that it has signed a contract with BARDA/NIAID, valued at
up to $29.7 million, to fund the further development of AV7909, a next generation
anthrax vaccine candidate within Emergent's portfolio of anthrax countermeasures. The
three-year contract provides up to $24.9 million of funding for manufacturing of clinical
lots, for non-clinical safety and efficacy studies, and for stability studies to further
demonstrate that the vaccine candidate does not need refrigeration during storage, a key
requirement of this vaccine development initiative. In addition, the contract provides up
to $4.8 million for a Phase I clinical trial, to be funded as an option that, if exercised,
would increase the value of the contract to $29.7 million.

Bushco was sure to toss some taxpayer dollars Emergent Biosolutions' way before he left. Would the new administration be as generous as the previous administration was?

Vaccines: Is the Boom Sustainable During the Obama Era?
http://www.windhover.com/ezine/html/ac0109-2lp.htm

The emerging Obama health team has experience in the field; they bring
preconceived approaches and tendencies to the field. Many trained in public
health roles during the initiation of the Vaccines for Children Program. Now is
the time to understand the background and to analyze how they will
approach the changes that have occurred in the vaccine industry in the
past eight years.

Take away key perspectives and guidance in the following areas:

How do vaccines fit into the developing overall health care reform effort that promises
to be a key part of the Obama economic revitalization?

What is the future for “push” incentives for vaccines: funding for research; funding for
new production capacity; support for regulatory approvals?

Is the government ready to continue and support “pull” programs: efforts to expand
vaccination populations for flu vaccines, for vaccines for adolescents, for vaccines for
the elderly?

How far will the government go to assure the public that safety fears are unfounded?

Who will be the key voices for vaccines in the new administration?
...and much more!

Join us for Vaccines: Is the Boom Sustainable during the Obama Era? on Thursday, Jan.
29, 2009 at 12 p.m. EST (9 a.m. Pacific). Listen as our experts help you understand the
future before it's begun. Grab your team, a phone and a computer with Web access (that last
one's optional). No travel required!

The answer is yes.

U.S. orders more anthrax vaccine
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2011/05/03/US-orders-more-anthrax-vaccine/UPI-53371304443716/print

ROCKVILLE, Md., May 3 (UPI) -- The U.S. government has ordered more vaccine from Emergent BioSolutions Inc. of
Maryland to counter exposure to anthrax.

Emergent BioSolutions said the modification to its contract -- increasing the order of its BioThrax vaccine to 17.92 million
doses from 14.5 million, increases the value of its contract to as much as $101 million.

Potential Billion $ Contract for Emergent Biosolutions
http://www.wilx.com/localnews/headlines/Potential_Billion_Contract_for_Emergent_Biosolutions_122671924.html

LANSING - Emergent Biosolutions is close to securing five more years of work in Lansing. On Thursday Emergent Biosolutions
announced the U.S. government intends to purchase 44.75 million doses of biothrax, the anthrax vaccine. The contract is still being
negotiated, and a final price has not been set. A dose of biothrax costs about $30, so the contract could be worth in the
neighborhood of $1.3 billion. The new contract would last for 5 years. Approximately 400 people work at the Emergent Biosolutions
plant in Lansing.

Biothrax is the only vaccine licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to protect against anthrax infection. Emergent is the
sole provider of the vaccine to the U.S. Government. Biothrax is mainly used to vaccinate soldiers, and millions of doses are
stockpiled in case of national emergency.

The US bought an enormous amount of vaccine for a situation that it was unapproved for and which was unlikely to occur.

Project BioShield, signed into law by President Bush in July 2004, would replenish the Strategic National Stockpile of vaccines in the event of a terrorist attack. It would also allow BioThrax to be used for inhalation exposure, even though the FDA only approves it to be used for cutaneous exposure.47 However, without supplementary antibiotics BioThrax was found to be ineffective against inhalation exposure in animal testing.48

A strong advocate for Project BioShield II was Jerome Hauer, who gave his assessment of Project BioShield I in December 2004, “Bioshield I was a good start; there’s no question about it. It was intended to engage the industry {and} to stimulate the industry. …But it appears to have had just the opposite effect for many of the pharmaceutical companies.”49 At the time Mr. Hauer gave that statement, he was no longer acting assistant secretary for emergency preparedness at HHS; he was working as a lobbyist for BioPort Corporation.50 He is currently on the Board of Directors for Emergent Biosolutions (formerly BioPort) along with former FEMA director Joe Allbaugh.51

In May 2005, BioPort was awarded a $123 million dollar contract to produce 5 million doses of anthrax vaccine.52 The following November, the government decided to double the amount of vaccine they would purchase, citing the possibility of an airborne anthrax attack. Skeptical about the effectiveness of the vaccine in an airborne attack, David Ozonoff, a professor at Boston University’s School of Public Health, said, “The number of doses they are amassing is wildly out of proportion to any possible threat from anthrax. What the benefits are is very unclear and there are always the {health} risks … when you vaccinate a whole lot of people.”53

In agreement with Mr. Ozonoff is Hillel W. Cohen, an epidemiologist at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx, who emphasizes the difficulty of executing such an attack, “The only possible benefit of a vaccine is if there’s a danger of exposure and that danger is small because of the technological hurdles of weaponizing anthrax … It’s not something you can do in your basement.”54

Indeed, the difficulty in producing high-quality anthrax puts it beyond the reach of amateurs. According to a 2002 GAO report, “…it would be very difficult for a terrorist to overcome major technical and operational challenges to effectively and successfully weaponize and deliver a biological warfare agent to cause mass casualties.”55 The report lists five steps to producing high-quality anthrax, the first being the acquisition of a virulent strain of anthrax by either isolating it in a dead animal, purchasing it from someone who already has it, or by stealing it from a lab.56


47 Maier, T. (2005, November 20). A shot in the dark? Newsday.com. Retrieved April 15, 2009 from http://www.military-biodefensevaccines.org/documents/articles/20051120.pdf
48 Ibid.
49 Strohm, C. (2004). Congress seeks to stimulate market for bioagent vaccines. Retrieved April 15, 2009 from http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?filepath=/dailyfed/1204/121604c1.htm
50 Ibid.
51 Emergent Biosolutions Inc. (2009). Board of Directors. Retrieved April 15, 2009 from http://investors.emergentbiosolutions.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=202582&p=irol-govboard_pf
52 Maier, T. (2005, November 20). A shot in the dark? Newsday.com. Retrieved April 15, 2009 from http://www.military-biodefensevaccines.org/documents/articles/20051120.pdf
53 Ibid.
54 Ibid.
55 Rhodes, K. (2002). Information on U.S. domestic anthrax attacks. General Accounting Office (GAO-03-323T). Washington, D.C. p. 3.
56 Ibid.

http://www.biothrax.com/prescribinginformation_biothrax_us.pdf

-------------------INDICATIONS AND USAGE-------------------
BioThrax is a vaccine indicated for the active immunization for the prevention of disease caused by Bacillus anthracis, in persons between 18 and 65 years of age at high risk of exposure. Since the risk of anthrax infection in the general population is low, routine immunization is not recommended. The safety and efficacy of BioThrax in a post-exposure setting have not been established.

[newspeak]

20. it was kind of ironic that one of the tabloid reporters

was sent the anthrax, one who had done a hit piece on the bush twins.

The timing of the anthrax attack was suspect, especially when little boots was pushing the patriot act. The timing of finding a perpetrator is suspect, right before little boots leaves the WH. It's like tying up all lose ends.

Ivins was well regarded by his fellow employees, they defended him against the FBI's allegations. Apparently, the FBI harassed him. If he already had depression, I'd say they probably drove him over the edge. But, he makes a great scapegoat, someone handling mental problems and apparently was attempting to get his life back on track.

[EFerrari]

31. In the last week or so of his life, the FBI floated one bogus story after another

about him. That he hated women, that he was a loner, that he had a profit motive, that he was a conservative Catholic, that he didn't report an anthrax spill. That he left work early to mail anthrax on that first date.

It was all a big steaming pile once you sort through the facts. There is no evidence he hated women, he wasn't a loner, his profit on the vaccine was very small & he had another one cooking, he wasn't a conservative Catholic, he did report the spill and he was in Fredrick at the time they claimed he was in Princeton.

It's like they never expected anyone to challenge their bullshit.

[msanthrope]

38. No evidence he hated women??? He stalked a sorority for decades.

I mean, this dude may not be the anthrax mailer, but let's not pretend that he was a friend to women--

Google this guy's name and 'Kappa Kappa.' Or this guy's name and 'Nancy Haigwood.'

[EFerrari]

43. Nancy Haigwood was firmly in FBI's hands when she coughed up that story.

Maybe you should do those searches because I did and years ago. There is no there there.

And his stuff around that sorority never hurt anyone. He never stalked a person. You are maligning someone who can't defend himself with bullshit spun by the FBI to make him look guilty because they had nothing. They still have nothing.

ETA: When Haigwood contacted him at the FBI's request, she reported that their exchange was brief and cordial. Yeah, she was terrified of him. Not.

[msanthrope]

52. So you are backtracking now, & admit he was doing something to the sorority, but it wasn't harmful?

I beg to differ. Stalking is a crime.

This AP report is interesting--seems he had decades of stalking under his belt.

Microbiologist Claims Lone Anthrax Suspect Bruce Ivins Stalked Her for Decades

Saturday, August 09, 2008

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400941,00.html#ixzz1aTj03pbS

Under your rubric, the microbiologist, Wikipedia, the FBI, and the Kappa Kappa sorority all conspired to frame him.

I think he's a stalker/criminal/asshole. I suspect my scenario is more likely.

[pitohui]

56. you think someone who stalked for decades suddenly starts poisoning?

as a victim of a stalker who by chance knew a poisoner, they are not the same type of person

seems like a classic case of the fbi doesn't know who the fuck did it so they just grabbed the nearest creepy guy standing around

hatfill was a creepy racist, this guy a creepy misogynist, who is going to feel sorry for them?

prosecutors all the world round try to go after unpopular people, the easy targets, first

i would say the more evidence there is that this guy is another creep like hatfill, the more unlikely it is that he would have waited until late in life to start poisoning people rather than just stalking and shaking them down

the evidence to me remains unconvincing -- well, to be honest, the circumstantial evidence against hatfill is just as good and apparently now we're to believe he was innocent all along

stalking is a crime, sure it is, lots of stuff is a crime, but most criminals don't suddenly blossom into full-bore terrorists out to poison random grandmothers and postal workers

[msanthrope]

57. Who says it was sudden? Who says he never did it before?

Who says people don't escalate?

Ted Bundy didn't start off by killing and raping 12 year-olds. He started off as a peeper.

I have no idea if this guy is the anthrax mailer, as I've said before. But the idea that he didn't hurt women, and didn't stalk, and didn't implicate others to hide his own mistakes doesn't wash.

I know that FDL has pushed the 'he's just a stalker not a terrorist' line, but I think that's a pretty facile description of someone who was deeply disturbed.

[defendandprotect]

73. You are correct in this: "I have no idea if this guy is the anthrax mailer"

[truedelphi]

60. It's just as plausible that he was framed.

And the way that the FBI set it up, that he was the only person in the world capable of using the sorority Greek letters, makes a frame seem just as likely.

Once they decided he'd be their fall guy, all they had to do was involve and invoke Kappa Kappa in some way (It's office being near to the mailbox that was used, the Greek letters being used, etc.)

[defendandprotect]

74. Same framing and patterns used ....

in CIA's/Warren Report -- Oswald did "A" so he's guilty of "B" --

"C" "D" ----------- all the way to "X" --


Immediate attempt to turn him into a psychopath -- yet the facts are hugely

different!

[defendandprotect]

72. First lie is that Ivins was the "lone suspect" --- it was Hatfill, if you recall ....

or didn't you know that?

They harassed Hatfill for years trying to pin it on him --

though they had already investigated others -- including Ivins and found no

evidence.

Rumsfeld/Pentagon -- Bush/Carlyle Group -- W/Cheney are the suspects here --

and no one else!

[defendandprotect]

71. +1000% --- k/r

[defendandprotect]

70. +1 ---

[defendandprotect]

69. Agree ---

Though I hadn't remembered that the attack on the reporter was one who had done

the hit piece on Bush twins!

Hugh-Jones said in a telephone interview that Ivins wouldn't have known how to microencapsulate anthrax spores.

"He had no skill in that regard at all," Hugh-Jones said.

"The investigation wasn't as thorough as it should have been," Hugh-Jones said. "They need to look at it more carefully."

A National Academy of Science panel that reviewed the science used in the FBI investigation concluded in February that investigators overstated the scientific case against Ivins. Lehigh University President Alice P. Gast, who headed the panel, told the Times that the new article ""points out connections that deserve further consideration."

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/nation/2011/10/scientists-question-anthrax-attack-findings?page=0%2C0%2C0%2C1#ixzz1aVgpQbhX



And, as I recall it, in 2009 FBI director Mueller was still fighting giving information re the

FBI's investigation to Congress?


It was also quite handy to have Congress shut down for more than 6 months -- unable to recieve

mail/information from citizens still protesting the 2000 election -- and challenging 9/11 -- !!!

Even today, mail for Congress is still be irradiated/radiated -- and takes three weeks to dry

out before they're able to send on!!

[Uncle Joe]

21. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, alp.

[Old and In the Way]

22. Why were WH personnnel taking Cipro 2 weeks before the 1st attack became known?

Cipro isn't recommended as a preventative medication, either. IIRC, there was another scientist who was initially fingered. This guy had been involved in weaponization of anthrax for the white racist South Africa government. I believe he successfully sued the government because he was 'wrongly' ID'd as a potential person of interest. I've always wondered why they were so quick to pay this guy off.

[OnyxCollie]

23. Dr. Stephen Hatfill.

He wasn't paid off quickly. It took about seven years and a lawsuit.

[harun]

26. It was a lot though. 4.6 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hatfill#Hatfill_v._John_Ashcroft.2C_et_al.

[defendandprotect]

77. Interesting --

Thanks --

On June 13, 2002, Dr. Rosenberg posted "The Anthrax Case: What the FBI Knows" to the FAS site.<20> On June 18, 2002, Dr. Rosenberg presented her theories to senate staffers working for Senators Daschle and Leahy.<21> One week later, on June 25, the FBI publicly searched Dr. Hatfill's apartment, turning him into a household name. "The FBI also pointed out that Hatfill had agreed to the search and is not considered a suspect." <22> Both The American Prospect and Salon.com report that "Hatfill is not a suspect in the anthrax case, the FBI says."<23> On August 3, 2002, Dr. Rosenberg told the media that the FBI asked her if "a team of government scientists could be trying to frame Steven J. Hatfill."<24>

[defendandprotect]

75. Stephen Hatfill was smart enough to fight back legally --- but they harassed him for years -- !!!

Hatfill also spoke out about the harassment and the framing --

and that made the difference between what they were able to do to him

and what they were able to do to Ivins!



Keep in mind, everyone was investigaged BEFORE they settled on Hatfill --

so Ivins had previously been deemed unlikely --


But I think they harassed Hatfill for four or five years!!

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

24. Frontline Season Premiere "The Anthrax Files" Tuesday PBS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/anthrax-files/?utm_campaign=anthraxfiles&utm_medium=GoogleAds&utm_source=keyword

[AmalgamVirgo2001]

25. The Anthrax came from ...

... Plum Island Animal Disease Center or "Anthrax Island" as it's known.

If you consult page 3 of Amalgam Virgo '01 PDF (ratical.org/ratville/CAH/linkscopy/AmalgumVirgo.pdf.) The word Amalgam in the link is deliberately misspelled with a "u" instead of an "a." You'll see a picture just above the picture of the two flags at the bottom left, you'll notice a white powder substance. The white powder is Anthrax. The Anthrax was sent to Senators Tom Daschle (D-South Dakota) and Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) to intimidate because they were holding up the passing of the Patriot Act.

[Delphinus]

48. Interesting.

Welcome to DU - thanks for this provocative post.

[defendandprotect]

78. Essentially ....

W/Cheney enemies were hit -- just coincidentally ---

Or we might recognize that they were willing to kill innocent people in order to

get the Patriot Act passed -- !!

[defendandprotect]

80. Can you ....

provide a link to the website -- ?

Is it Plum Island or Amalgam?

Thanks --

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. Something is definitely stinky about this one. Good on them.

[Kurovski]

39. Kick.

:kick:

[EFerrari]

44. I asked Scott Shane directly via twitter if he has found ONE scientist

who agrees with the FBI who is not on their payroll. No answer and the answer is no.

[msanthrope]

53. Ask him if he read David Willman's book on Bruce Ivins, and if he disagrees

with him.

I have it on my Kindle now, and it's terrific.

Scot Shane also did a few pieces on Ivins. It certainly backs the stalking claim.

www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/us/04anthrax.html?pagewanted=all

[EFerrari]

55. Ivins had mental illness but he was no stalker. That's FBI distortion

in service of demonizing him at the time. Ivins was not a creepy stalker. Both of his memorials overflowed with friends. His biggest supporters are women who knew him, several of whom I've spoken to.

[msanthrope]

58. His own lawyer admitted he was obsessed with the sorority. Are you gainsaying his lawyer?

"In an interview with The Daily Princetonian, attorney Paul Kemp confirmed that Ivins had a fixation with the sorority but said that Ivins did not have anything to do with the deadly letters mailed from the Princeton mailbox just 300 feet from where the University's Kappa chapter keeps its rush paraphernalia, initiation robes and other materials.

SNIP

Kemp said that Ivins' fixation dates back to his years at the University of Cincinnati, when he was rebuffed by a member of the Kappa chapter there. He also said Ivins had at times visited the chapter houses at the universities of West Virginia, Virginia and Maryland, but had no contact with any members of the sorority or their chapter houses since 1981.

"I'm sure there was no contact," he said of any potential interaction between Ivins and Kappa members at the University. Kemp, who has represented Ivins for more than a year, added that it "doesn't make any sense" for Ivins to have chosen Princeton because there are actual sorority houses at schools closer to his laboratory in Maryland.

Kemp also said that Ivins, whose father graduated from the University in 1928, had admitted his obsession to investigators two years ago. They were also aware of his unstable mental condition."

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2008/08/06/21283/


This, plus the Wikipedia edits?


You know, it is possible for him to be a creepy stalker and not the anthrax mailer. It's a thought.

[defendandprotect]

82. "Ivins had no contact with any members of the sorority or their chapter houses since 1981"

So why are you trying to sell this this garbage here -- ?



You've already admitted that you have NO idea whether Ivins was involved with Anthrax mailings --


So essentially, you posts are simply about trying to suggest that Ivins was a "creepy stalker" --

Why?

"Ivins had no contact

with any members of the sorority

or their chapter houses

since 1981"

[msanthrope]

84. No, at that point Ivins had moved on to former members, their personal residences,

and their property. After that, he moved on to the Wiki edits and sending in false letters to the editor in his victim's name.

So is your defense of him that he is merely a former stalker?

I know FDL thought this guy was a martyr, but this gets ridiculious

[defendandprotect]

86. NO CONTACT WITH ANY MEMBERS ---

"Ivins had no contact with any members of the sorority or their chapter houses since 1981"

Meanwhile this has nothing whatsoever to do with the Anthrax case --

Not sure if you have more animosity for Ivins or FDL --

but where you should be looking is at Rumsfeld/Pentagon -- Poppy Bush/Carlyle Group --

That's where the motivation was --

[msanthrope]

87. Sure. Except that there was.

I posted the links to the AP news story that detailed his contacts--since 1981. I can't make you read it if you don't want to.

It's entirely possible that his lawyer didn't know about those contacts, since this interview was after Ivins's death but before the court records were released.

Are you suprised that Ivins failed to mention those contacts to his lawyer? This is the guy who failed to mention an anthrax spill at work. Please.

[defendandprotect]

92. What I'm surprised at is that you think this has anything to do with Anthrax ... !!

[defendandprotect]

79. "FBI asked if 'a team of government scientists could be trying to frame Hatfill'" --

On June 13, 2002, Dr. Rosenberg posted "The Anthrax Case: What the FBI Knows" to the FAS site.<20> On June 18, 2002, Dr. Rosenberg presented her theories to senate staffers working for Senators Daschle and Leahy.<21> One week later, on June 25, the FBI publicly searched Dr. Hatfill's apartment, turning him into a household name. "The FBI also pointed out that Hatfill had agreed to the search and is not considered a suspect." <22> Both The American Prospect and Salon.com report that "Hatfill is not a suspect in the anthrax case, the FBI says."<23> On August 3, 2002, Dr. Rosenberg told the media that the FBI asked her if "a team of government scientists could be trying to frame Steven J. Hatfill."<24>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hatfill#Hatfill_v._John_Ashcroft.2C_et_al.


Short way down under "Rosenberg Theory" --

[Old and In the Way]

100. Since you bolded it,

do you believe "a team of government scientists were trying to frame Steven Hatfill"? I'm not sure of why you emphasized this excerpt...but you've posted it twice now. Could you expound on your point? The abbreviated timeline seems like Hatfill got cleared pretty quickly. But then I've read up on Hatfill's direct experience with weaponization of anthrax in South Africa and wonder if the wrong guy took the fall for the attack.

[defendandprotect]

102. Why not ask why the FBI would be asking such a question?

Are you suggesting -- especially after the inane conclusions we've seen from NIST

on 9/11 -- that those scientists working for government can't be intimidated?

Especially when they are linked to Pentagon and working on secret weapons?


:rofl:


And Hatfill was under investigation for YEARS -- there was no "brief timeline" -- !!!

The only difference was that Hatfill wasn't as vulnerable as Ivins was personally --

Hatfill immediately got legal assistance -- and sued not only the government but

the New York Times and and others.


Rather, the motivation to attack Congress and Senators comes from the White House ---

This was a crucial period of time when the public were questioning the 2000 election

steal and 9/11 -- and when the White House was trying to get its fascist Patriot Act

passed and it was being blocked by Dashle and Leahy.

The warmongers and deceivers are in the White House and the Pentagon.