Car Company Gets U.S. Loan, Builds Cars In Finland

[Psephos]

Source: ABC News

With the approval of the Obama administration, an electric car company that received a $529 million federal government loan guarantee is assembling its first line of cars in Finland, saying it could not find a facility in the United States capable of doing the work.

Vice President Joseph Biden heralded the Energy Department's $529 million loan to the start-up electric car company called Fisker as a bright new path to thousands of American manufacturing jobs. But two years after the loan was announced, the job of assembling the flashy electric Fisker Karma sports car has been outsourced to Finland.

"There was no contract manufacturer in the U.S. that could actually produce our vehicle," the car company's founder and namesake told ABC News. "They don't exist here."

Henrik Fisker said the U.S. money so far has been spent on engineering and design work that stayed in the U.S., not on the 500 manufacturing jobs that went to a rural Finnish firm, Valmet Automotive. "We're not in the business of failing; we're in the business of winning. So we make the right decision for the business," Fisker said. "That's why we went to Finland."

<snip>

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875

[sakabatou]

1. *facepalm*

[kristopher]

Sounds like right wing anti-administration hyperbole

"Henrik Fisker said the U.S. money so far has been spent on engineering and design work that stayed in the U.S., not on the 500 manufacturing jobs that went to a rural Finnish firm."

[harmonicon]

16. Yeah, but people just love knee-jerk reactions.

I've only read this far down in the thread, and that's already the bulk. Fuck it if their loan was spent in the US, because, uh... USA! USA! *drool*

[No Elephants]

43. What U.S. money? The story says we guaranteed the loan and they have not missed a payment so far.

If both those things are true, the US has not put up any money yet.

Something is wrong with this story. It is not hanging together.

Oh, and if we guaranteed $529 million and all of it went to design and engineering, something is also very wrong with their budget.

Also, please note the critical fudge words "so far."


In another part of the OP article, Fisker says something about it being more expensive to assemble in the U.S. Not impossible, just more expensive.

So, it's the same old argument companies use when they offshore on their own dime.

Besides, design and engineering are independent contractor functions, not jobs that last.

The whole point of the US going on the hook for $529 million with no potential upside would be creating jobs, esp. manufacturing jobs, in the US. If not for that, we should let people find private sugar daddies.

If they find it cheaper to manufacture in Finland when our guaranty is in play, if they are successful, they will keep manufacturing in Finland.

[and-justice-for-all]

2. Either you find a facility, build one, our give the money back....

it should be a federal crime to pull this shit. "There was no contract manufacturer in the U.S. that could actually produce our vehicle," I think they are full of shit.

[Tansy_Gold]

6. +millions. n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

8. + INFINITY

[Tansy_Gold]

15. or at least 529,000,000

[Petrushka]

11. Exactly! (eom)

[harmonicon]

17. Because the USA is the greatest at everything, just like Reagan said, right?

Truth be told, the US is a second world shit-hole. How big is Finland? Like the size of Wisconsin or Ohio or something (population)? Yet, comparatively, how many industries do they lead in? The government refusing to invest in infrastructure and companies refusing to put profits back into innovation are what has led to this. Don't blame the messenger.

[Kurmudgeon]

20. No, because the money came from the US. All the hyperbole in the world doesn't change that.

[harmonicon]

29. Reading is your friend:

"Henrik Fisker said the U.S. money so far has been spent on engineering and design work that stayed in the U.S., not on the 500 manufacturing jobs that went to a rural Finnish firm, Valmet Automotive."

You could let that sink it, or you could just have the knee-jerk reaction that the right-wing press wants you to have to keep you distracted form the real problems.

[No Elephants]

34. Key words being "so far" Besides, we know nothing about Fisker's

credibility and he's not even under oath.

Not as though no company head ever stretched the truth when under scrutiny.

[harmonicon]

44. Sure, but that could be said any time.

Is speculating the worst really the best way to deal with things? That just doesn't make sense to me.

[DeSwiss]

24. ''...the US is a second world shit-hole....''

- Yeah well we still kicked your colonizing asses......

[harmonicon]

30. Well, no.

For one, I'm a US citizen, but none of my ancestors lived in the US during the revolutionary or civil wars. I suppose a few did live in the British Empire, but I don't think any of them were colonizers. Even if they had been, during the revolutionary war, the place I was born was a frontier with maybe some French fur trappers in it or something. Other places I've lived in the US were - at different points - part of the French Empire, New Spain, etc. It's still my country all the same, and it is a giant fucking shit-hole of a place. I prefer to acknowledge that than bury my head in the sand in hopes that once I look up things will have magically changed.

[alp227]

32. didn't a lot of right wing heads explode since the US lost jobs to a SOCIALIST SCANDINAVIAN

country?????

[harmonicon]

33. Well, you can't have it both ways. That's for sure.

If one complains about companies moving production to countries with lower wages and worse working conditions, you'd think they'd applaud the expansion of industry in countries with higher wages and better working conditions, but I guess not (though, I am at pains to point out that Finland is not part of Scandinavia since it got independence from Sweden an awful long time ago). So, what's the problem here? Is the problem with the US or Finland? I'm guessing the US.

[OhioChick]

3. Wow....Just Wow n/t

[KT2000]

4. So we pay the execs

and that is what we get for our loan. Hmmm

[pam4water]

5. Head desk head desk ....

[ChromeFoundry]

7. Wasn't there a stipulation in the loan that ...

mandated that the vehicles would be manufactured her in the US?

Follow the money trail to see who in our government received kick-backs from this stinking turd.

"We're not in the business of failing; we're in the business of winning." - Henrik Fisker

Fine, pay the money back with the accrued interest.
This country is not in the business of failing either.
And those cars you are building; we need to tariff the shit out of them.

[shanti]

26. tariffs

against outsourcing. another promise that obama has broken

[No Elephants]

35. IF there was, apparently the Obamadmin waived it.

The first line in the OP says that manufacturing in Finland was with the permission of the admin.

[Petrushka]

9. Surely the company's founder & namesake KNEW there was no contract manufacturer in the U.S. . . .

before he hit up the U.S. for a loan?!

Making the supposedly "right decision for business" by taking it to Finland, he might as well be thumbing his nose at the U.S. and its citizens . . . especially when he says of his company, "We're not in the business of failing;..." as if the U.S. is. (emphasis added)

[shanti]

27. the scammers and carpetbaggers

are making a killing in the u.s. at the moment.

[No Elephants]

36. As I suspected, "green" is looking like the latest way to spell "boondoggle."

[Beavker]

10. Get the money back...

If I could afford either, I'd go with the Tesla Model S for sure now.

[brentspeak]

12. The elites have deindustrialized the US to the point where we've lost our past expertise

[shanti]

28. it happened in argentina before

and they pulled themselves out of it. the people were buying up the closed factories. maybe we should be doing this here.

[No Elephants]

37. America does not have the expertise to assemble cars? Really?

They said the design work and engineering had been done in the U.S.

[bhikkhu]

13. There's a big difference between a loan and a loan guarantee

As long as the company doesn't go bankrupt. All things considered, at least they are concerned with making the "right decision for the business".

[No Elephants]

38. Really? Did you read the entire article? See also, Reply 18.,

FYI, the major difference between a loan and a loan guarantee is that the guarantor, in this case, the US, has 100% of the downside risk and, if all goes well, gets its own money back, while the borrower reaps the profits.

[msongs]

14. lawsuit - John Q Public vs Obama/Fisker - public loss, private profit nt

[No Elephants]

39. John Q. Public has no standing to sue and the U.S., which would have standing, gave permission.

[Psephos]

18. More on the story: Green Car Reports says the mileage sucks.

Just saw this.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1067530_could-fisker-karmas-low-mpgs-hurt-doe-car-tech-loan-program

Fisker Automotive may have sensed that the 20-mpg EPA rating on their 2012 Karma electric sport sedan was not good news.

The company simply omitted the statistic from their press release announcing that the EPA had legally certified the Karma--meaning it can now be sold to retail buyers.

Fisker said the EPA had rated the Karma at 54 MPGe (MPG-equivalent) when running on electricity from its battery pack, and that the EPA-rated electric range would be 32 miles.

*20 mpg omitted from release*

But the other half of the window sticker--the 20-mpg rating for a Karma running on power from its range-extending gasoline engine--appeared nowhere in the release.

<snip>

Meanwhile, in addition to manufacturing the cars in Finland, Fisker is using Chinese, not US-made, electric motors and batteries.

Buying a Fisker will qualify the purchaser for a $7,500 tax credit. Given that the cars cost 100 grand, that means taxpayers will be subsidizing 1 Percenters to buy an inefficient expensive car made overseas with Chinese parts.

This now fulfills my full definition of fail.

[Devil_Fish]

22. Oh My Fucking God. 32 mile range on batteries? What is this the EV1 with 1st gen lead acid?

and what's the price? $92.5K? You're shitting me....

You could buy 3 Nissan Leafs with that and have change left over!!!!

$25K, average 100 mile range on a charge. Save the planet and look good doing it!

[kysrsoze]

23. Yeah, Fisker appears to be junk. I'd put my money on Tesla over any other manufacturer

Fisker appears to be a crappy competitor to the Chevy Volt - no animosity toward the Volt.

Tesla made a deal with Toyota, in exchange for Toyota having an ownership stake. And now they are proud owners of a massive former GM/Toyota factory in sunny California, USA, which is currently being loaded up with machinery for production. They already have 30 Model S test cars built, and their base range of 160 miles (up to 300 possible) is more than double that of any other electric car out now or in the near future. They've also designed their own charging system, complete with adapters for when the rest of the industry decides it wants to catch up.

Elon Musk et al, are doing it right.

[ChandlerJr]

19. Just read it in bold red on Drudge

Thanks.

[Demeter]

21. Another Scam That Will Discredit Solar Energy

It's very hard to get people to accept new technology when this kind of highway robbery is going on, and on, and on....

[Crowman1979]

25. So we give then money, and just hope they build their products in the USA?!?!

Maybe if we're nice enough, they'll trickle down their riches! :sarcasm:

[No Elephants]

40. What hope? We gave them permission to assemble in Finland.

What riches? The OP article and the one cited in Reply 18 are not exactly optimistic about the success of Fisker.

[truthisfreedom]

31. This is NOT an all-electric car, ladies and gents. TESLA USA has that sewn up.

Right out of Silicon Valley.

Fisker is a car that looks hot but can't begin to perform against ANYTHING Tesla has coming. And Tesla is ALL AMERICAN.

[No Elephants]

41. "Looks hot" Well, the design was done in the U.S.

Then again, so was the engineering, allegedly.

[No Elephants]

42. $535 mil to Solyndra, $529 mil to Fisker, whatever to Tesla. Pretty soon, we'll be

talking real money.

"An investigation by ABC News and the Center for Public Integrity's iWatch News that will air on "Good Morning America" found that the DOE's bet carries risks for taxpayers, has raised concern among industry observers and government auditors, and adds to questions about the way billions of dollars in loans for smart cars and green energy companies have been awarded. Fisker is more than a year behind rolling out its $97,000 luxury vehicle bankrolled in part with DOE money. While more are promised soon, just 40 of its Karma cars (below) have been manufactured and only two delivered to customers' driveways, including one to movie star Leonardo DiCaprio. Tesla's SEC filings reveal the start-up has lost money every quarter. And while its federal funding is intended to help it mass produce a new $57,400 Model S sedan, the company has no experience in a project so vast."

In fairness, the article also says neither Fisker nor Tesla has missed a loan payment...yet.



But, whether or not we end up losing money on the guaranty, making it or just coming out of it with no loss beyond whatever time the Obamadmin put into this, the whole point of the feds' investing in green energy was supposed to be creating jobs in the U.S.


If we had read about Bushco okaying assembly in Finland or about a Bush donor being involved in Solyndra, we would havescreamed. If it's a Democrat, though, we find ways to rationalize. Meanwhile, it's our money in both cases.


Partisan politics in the red team, blue team kleptocracy get more ridiculous by the day. It would be funny, if it weren't so pathetic.

[wordpix]

48. why are we taxpayers on the hook for these loans? Don't investment banks loan $ for private enter-

prise anymore? :grr: Or do they just loan money for pieces of paper that can't be tracked to get passed around? :grr:

[goforit]

45. WTF!!!!............ OBAMA, plain and simple...just sucks!

[Luciferous]

46. Wow, we should demand that they give our money back then.

[cyberpj]

47. HEY!! Delaware News Journal said on Oct 20 they would still be taking over a GM plant here:

Now pushed back for two years or so..... :sarcasm:

Wonder if the deal had anything to do with our dear Joe Biden?


Fisker pushes Nina production to mid-2013
Automaker holds to plan to employ 2,500 workers
12:54 AM, Oct. 20, 2011

WASHINGTON -- Fisker Automotive will not begin high-volume production of its second line of hybrids in Delaware until mid-2013, company executives said Wednesday.

Anaheim, Calif.-based Fisker, which recently received regulatory clearance to sell its $100,000 Karma sedan, plans to build its second line, the Nina, at a Newport-area plant. Prototypes are planned for next year.

The company continues to say it will employ 2,500 people in Delaware, including contractors and suppliers. Chief Operating Officer Bernhard Koehler said that employment target, a condition of its $21.5 million incentive package from the state, is a "conservative estimate."

The company currently has more than 120 workers, including contractors, in the plant and is hiring electrical and mechanical workers to refurbish equipment left behind by General Motors, the previous owner.

cont'd
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011110200309

[izquierdista]

49. I could believe it

I went looking for a contract manufacturer 15 years ago and the pickings were pretty slim. I can imagine that another 15 years of plant closings, downsizings, and offshoring has made the situation far worse.