Iraq PM says failed talks on immunity for US soldiers led to full American military withdrawal

[Warren Stupidity]

Source: Washington Post (AP)

BAGHDAD — Iraq’s prime minister said Saturday that U.S. troops are leaving Iraq after nearly nine years of war because Baghdad rejected American demands that any U.S. military forces to stay would have to be shielded from prosecution or lawsuits.

The comments by Nouri al-Maliki, a Shiite, made clear that it was Iraq who refused to let the U.S. military remain under the Americans’ terms.


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/iraq-pm-says-failed-talks-on-immunity-for-us-soldiers-led-to-full-american-military-withdrawal/2011/10/22/gIQAx5uE6L_story.html

---

Hmm... curiouser and curiouser.

[NOLALady]

1. Whatever works.

As long as the troops will be coming home, I really don't care about the reason.

[postulater]

2. That's a good start at taking back their own country.

[Gore1FL]

3. This is the one time

That Obama being the shittiest negotiator on earth actually paid off!

[dkf]

4. Lol.

Maybe they just wanted the excuse.

[grantcart]

33. Riiiiiiii iiight. Terrible negotiator. Lousy Strategist.

and yet comes from a broken home basically raising himself in Hawaii to become the most powerful leader in the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmDQiL3UNj4&feature=related


Lonnegan still thinks that Gondorf and Hooker are dead.


Just surprising how many people keep falling for the same line. Can't get nominated, won't get elected, can't get anything passed.


And yet the largest stimulus in world history, America's most significant health care reform, new Department for Consumer affairs,


passed passed passed.


The best negotiators always find a way for the other guy to think that they got something.


Boehner still thinks he got 99% of the debt ceiling negotiations.


"Shittiest negotiator on earth"


Bet you still can't figure out if the FBI guy was in on it or not, lol.

[cliffordu]

34. Well.....

LOL


:rofl:

[MjolnirTime]

5. Is this the best you could do?? Anything to take credit from Obama, right?

[expatriate2mex]

24. Credit? This should have been done after he took office.nt

[Warren Stupidity]

35. I'm actually surprised by the why but don't give a flying fuck how we get out.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Ooops, can't come to an agreement. Oh well. Guess we'd better go home.

Works for me.

[Sam Hain]

7. Despite Difficult Talks, U.S. and Iraq Had Expected Some American Troops to Stay

Source: New York Times

BAGHDAD — President Obama’s announcement on Friday that all American troops would leave Iraq by the end of the year was an occasion for celebration for many, but some top American military officials were dismayed by the announcement, seeing it as the president’s putting the best face on a breakdown in tortured negotiations with the Iraqis.

And for the negotiators who labored all year to avoid that outcome, it represented the triumph of politics over the reality of Iraq’s fragile security’s requiring some troops to stay, a fact everyone had assumed would prevail. But officials also held out hope that after the withdrawal, the two countries could restart negotiations more productively, as two sovereign nations.

This year, American military officials had said they wanted a “residual” force of as many as tens of thousands of American troops to remain in Iraq past 2011 as an insurance policy against any violence. Those numbers were scaled back, but the expectation was that at least about 3,000 to 5,000 American troops would remain.

At the end of the Bush administration, when the Status of Forces Agreement, or SOFA, was negotiated, setting 2011 as the end of the United States’ military role, officials had said the deadline was set for political reasons, to put a symbolic end to the occupation and establish Iraq’s sovereignty. But there was an understanding, a senior official here said, that a sizable American force would stay in Iraq beyond that date.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/world/middleeast/united-states-and-iraq-had-not-expected-troops-would-have-to-leave.html?_r=1&hp

---

I CELEBRATE THIS FAILURE!!!!!!! :woohoo: :bounce: :applause:

[TwilightGardener]

8. I understand the impulse to leave a small force behind. We do it pretty much

everywhere, post-war. But I'd also worry about leaving them behind to face violent uprisings, terror acts, etc. Glad they're all coming home. Edit to add: I'm sure the GOP will say that Obama should have somehow forced or bullied Iraq into letting troops stay, but they can go fuck themselves.

[Marnie]

9. Am troops in the Near East are an instigation to violence.

Beside there are to be about 5000 mercenaries (Private Security Forces)to be put in place.

What I want to know is who is paying for what, how much, and for how long.

[Xtraneous]

10. If these talks hadn't failed, Obama would have kept troops there.

I'm totally missing the reason for celebrating this as some kind of Obama win. The only win that is acceptable is bringing all troops home and working on getting our country's infrastructure back into shape. We are occupying other countries purely for the sake of corporations' globalization fetish, undermining our own workforce(and sustainability) and spreading anti-human capitalism under the guise of democracy.

[hiley]

11. exactly

there is no real reason to celebrate.
the last two paragraphs show he still wants to spend loads of $$..
**On Friday evening, an American official in Iraq, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the deliberations are confidential, said that negotiations would now center on arrangements that would begin next year, after all United States troops leave.

Possibilities being discussed are for some troops to return in 2012, an option preferred by some Iraqi politicians who want to claim credit for ending what many here still call an occupation, even though legally it ended years ago. Other scenarios being discussed include offering training in the United States, in a nearby country such as Kuwait, or having some troops here under NATO auspices.

[TwilightGardener]

13. Don't celebrate, then. As the wife of a serviceman, I will.

[Demoiselle]

14. I'm celebrating, too, Twilight.

I don't have anyone in the service at the moment...so I'll send up a cheer (and a prayer) for you and yours.

[TwilightGardener]

15. Thanks, Demoiselle. I'm sending up a prayer for all of those servicemembers

who died or were maimed in this fiasco. What a waste. I can't imagine what those family members must be feeling as we finally shut this crap down.

[Xtraneous]

23. Wow, what a strawman remark

No one here has attacked the relief that family members must feel to have their military family back with them. However, the circumstances under which this action took place is not an Obama accomplishment. You know better than most that the next war or assignment is a short time away. They never end especially since the corporations that this country is defending over its own people have gained gridlock control on the decision-makers.

[expatriate2mex]

27. One can face the facts as well as celebrate them coming home.

That's from a vietnam veteran.;) It should have already been done, hopefully they won't be in africa shortly.

[totodeinhere]

28. We are all celebrating the fact that they are finally all coming home. But that doesn't

mean that we cannot discuss the circumstances under which the decision was made to bring them all home. The stamement made by Nouri al-Maliki is consistent with information from numerous other sources that the Obama Administration wanted to leave some US troops in Iraq. All of this stuff I read here about how Obama kept his campaign promise is nonsense since Obama only withdrew all of our troops because he was forced to, not because he wanted to.

[expatriate2mex]

31. Exactly.nt

[Warren Stupidity]

38. I'm glad to see our troops out. I find the cause curious.

SOF agreements granting immunity are routinely imposed everywhere we put up bases.

[TwilightGardener]

39. It is a strange sticking point. I don't know any country where we have bases

where our troops who commit misdeeds aren't punished under US law and UCMJ. I remember controversy over rapes in Okinawa, but I think those troops were still tried/punished by the US.

[TwilightGardener]

12. Difference between a few thousand troops and none at all is not that much difference to me--

I could have accepted a minimal presence, IF the Iraqi people truly wanted us there. But they didn't, and I appreciate that Obama and the DoD negotiated and failed rather than bullied and forced.

[totodeinhere]

29. It is to me because having any Americans in harms way is bad. And some of that

limited number of troops would eventually have been killed and/or wounded.

[Scurrilous]

16. "You're fired!"

"I quit!" :P

Either way they're coming home and that's what's most important.

[truth2power]

17. Why do they need immunity? If they're not doing anything wrong...

why would they need to be exempted from prosecution?

*Just using the same rationale as our dear congresscritters and Homeland Security use against ordinary Amerikan citizens.*

I guess some are more above the law than others.

[Iliyah]

18. It would be approximately

39,000 troops coming home. Be it a negotiation failure, destiny, or just plain luck of the Irish for the troops in Irag, I'll take it, and when they do come home I'll be in that number of Americans thanking them and celebrating them. My gawd the repubs are already spouting fear, fear, fear.

[truth2power]

26. I'm glad they're coming home, too. I think everybody should come home,

including the privateers. then they should turn the green zone into a roller rink or something.

[lsewpershad]

19. Some people

will never be satisfied, no matter what.

[No Elephants]

20. Whatever. As Seeger says, "Bring 'em home, bring 'em home.

This WW II vet wrote the original version in 1966.


BRING THEM HOME (IF YOU LOVE YOUR UNCLE SAM)
Pete Seeger's 2003 version

If you love this land of the free
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
Bring all troops back from overseas
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

It will make the generals sad, I know
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
They want to tangle with the foe
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

They want to test their weaponry
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
Here is their big fallacy
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

Our foe is hunger and ignorance
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
You can't beat that with bombs and guns
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

I may be right, I may be wrong
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
But I got a right to sing this song
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home


Isn't that the wonderful thing about America.
You got a right to be wrong.
Where else in the world can we do it like we can do it here?
And back in 1965 when I first wrote this song it was
"If you love your Uncle Sam
Support our boys in Vietnam
Bring 'em home"
And if you all sing that chorus with me we can raise the ceiling a little higher.
Hooray for the United States of America and the right to speak your mind.

There's one thing I must confess
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
I'm not really a pacifist
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

If an army invaded this land of mine
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
You'd find me out on the firing line
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

Show those generals a fallacy
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
They don't have the right weaponry
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

For defense you need common sense
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
They don't have the right armaments
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

The world needs teachers, books and schools
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
And learning a few universal rules
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

So now we don't want to fight for oil
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
Underneath some foreign soil
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

So if you love this land of the free
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home
Bring all troops back from overseas
Bring 'em home, bring 'em home

[Ash_F]

21. Obama did not want criminals to face trial for their actions?

Not that a Republican would have been any more honorable, but lame nonetheless. Oh well, at least the war is finally drawing down.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

22. I look on it slightly differently

I personally think that Obama asked for 'total immunity' knowing that the Iraqi government would not accept such a stipulation

After all, it makes for a very good reason to pull out the troops without the republicans having much to attack, unless they argue that the soldiers shouldn't have had immunity(something most reps i think would never consider as acceptable)

Obviously i don't know this for a fact, but it seems sensible enough for me

[expatriate2mex]

25. Oh jeez, give me a break,nt

[Bodhi BloodWave]

32. its just as sensible as the claim of him being so naive diplomatically that he

believes a foreign country would grant total immunity that some here on DU sprouts

Least mine has some common sense attached

[expatriate2mex]

36. More arrogant than naive, thinking the iraqi's would be falling over themselves to accomodate us.nt

[Warren Stupidity]

37. SOF agreements are imposed on all of our 'friends' when we stick them with our legions.

Obama was simply following orders.

[totodeinhere]

30. All of this stuff I read here about how Obama kept his campaign promise to withdraw the troops

is nonsense since Obama only decided to withdraw all of the troops because he was forced to, not because he wanted to.