US immigrants fear for children in case of deportation

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: AFP

Parents who entered the United States illegally so fear for their future in Alabama that many are drawing up legal custody papers in case they have to leave their children behind following deportation.

"They could just run us out of the country when we are out in the street with the kids," fretted Ruben, who asked that his family name not be used.

But "now I have found a job, and I have three kids to support. I can't just leave out of fear. We have to tough it out," the Mexican migrant said.

His answer: to spell out legally what happens with his kids if the worst happens to him and his wife, Marina.

A federal appeals court last week blocked provisions in the nation's toughest immigration law that required schools to check whether students were in the United States legally or not, and required immigrants to carry an alien registration card.

But it also backed new police powers for detaining anyone suspected of being illegal immigrants, as well as provisions making it illegal for undocumented immigrants to enter into business transactions.



Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hA8AjUjRfdtA2-lk0kwGuajNLz1Q?docId=CNG.8bb84bd1eb39dd0dd36c24ab7ff60ea3.31

[pettypace]

1. 3 kids to support?

To the illegal immigrant who created the dilemma: How about taking your kids back with you as an option?

[EFerrari]

2. That immigrant does not make ICE policy or practices.

They do not allow you to leave custody and go home to pick up your children.

[alp227]

3. is there any way for the kids to leave with parents

if parent's native country grants the child citizenship in that country regardless of birth place if the kid was born in the US? The child maintains US citizenship-by-birth and thus has an super-expedited path back to America if child chooses to immigrate here.

[lbrtbell]

27. If the immigrants are from Mexico,

I seem to recall that the children are given Mexican citizenship, too, even if they're born in another country. If that's the case, the kids could be taken there.

It's pretty cruel for people to have kids here, knowing what the laws are. It's the parents, not the laws, creating this problem. It's pretty sick to use a child as a tool to get into the USA, rather than caring enough for them to avoid putting them into this situation.

[customerserviceguy]

4. Then leave before you are deported. n/t

[EFerrari]

7. Now, why didn't all those people think of that on their own?

Oh, yeah, because it addresses none of the issues whatsoever.

[customerserviceguy]

10. For the same reason that Libyan dictator didn't

Thought he could get away with it, too.

[EFerrari]

11. No. Immigrants are working people, not autocrats.

What a ridiculous comparison.

[customerserviceguy]

14. They both think they're above the law. n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

19. The Libyan dictator was above the law, Sharia Law in effect n/t

[LanternWaste]

29. I'm not sure that an undocumented worker believes they're above the law

I'm not sure that an undocumented worker believes they're above the law, rather simply desperate. I imagine hunger leads many people to break civil laws.

Yet I can understand how conflating the two allows us to both rationalize it, and put "them" into the same category as a tyrant-- allowing us to dehumanize the demographic even further. Not an insult, mind you-- merely part of the human condition...

[customerserviceguy]

30. Well, let's look at the situation

I guess I can understand someone sneaking across a border, knowing full well it's against the law, and trying to work hard to send money back to the family. I would imagine that those single individuals know that they are vulnerable, and that they could get shipped back home at any time, especially when then get caught, which possibility increases when one runs afoul of the law.

But to compound the problem by having children in the place you're stowing away, then to claim that you should stay because they're victims, well, that's the definition of chutzpah. Kind of like the guy who is being sentenced for killing his parents, who pleads to the court that he is an orphan.

Remember that guy who simply vanished three decades ago, and turned up as a Las Vegas casino dealer a few months ago? From all my research, he was single at the time, but what if he had a new wife, and maybe even some kids from that relationship? Wouldn't they be victims when he was taken back to Chicago to face charges? Would his having remarried and sired children have been a reason to just ignore the matter? All he was trying to do was get away from the mob in Chicago, and some gambling debts owed to them.

You can't benefit from crime by dragging other innocent parties into it.

[McCamy Taylor]

6. Why do the kids have to go? They are American citizens. And once the parents are deported

the state of Alabama can pay foster parents to take care of them until they are 18.

[Lasher]

21. That's right, because anyone born in the US is a US citizen.

These children have dual citizenship, so the parents have the option of taking their kids with them if they return to their country of origin. If families are split up it would be because the parents decided that's what they want it.

[Marazinia]

12. Or Americans could quit scapgoating

How about that might be an easier option if America's government and corporations weren't always so busy turning every country south of our border into war-zones and sweatshops?

Stop scapegoating immigrants for our job woes, it has nothing to do with them. The jobs are gone because our greedy, amoral corporate overlords decided it's cheaper and easier to make a profit in countries where workers have even fewer rights than American workers do.

[lbrtbell]

28. I agree that corporations are the biggest problem

But it's untrue to say that illegal immigrants aren't a problem. They do take jobs from Americans. It has happened to me in the past, and continues to happen to many other people. Saying Americans are "too lazy" to work is a RW meme. The truth is, employers hire illegals over citizens because they can get away with mistreating and underpaying the illegal immigrants.

It's not about Americans' work ethic, it's about employers' lack of ethics.

[ananda]

5. Isn't it about time that white Alabama raised its consciousness?

Look what they're doing with age-old jury rigging ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/21/race-discrimination-alabama-death-penalty

[jowsybart]

8. white alabama's consciousness is way ahead of fakeleftist consciousness

they know that the cheap foreign labor of the rich is ruining america. Not only is it depressing wages, but it also destroys social capital and divides the majority. There must be a united majority bloc to face down the elite.
If there is no united majority bloc, there is no Left.

Here in america, instead of a Left, we have this huge chunk of americans who profess to be leftist, but then support the wealthy elite and their cheap foreign labor. The most non-leftist thing possible, and yet they call themselves leftist.

White Alabama is QUITE leftist. And they have shown it with this new anti-immigration law.

[pettypace]

9. Welcome to DU

We love to play the race card. It's our thing.

[pampango]

13. White Alabama republicans passed this immigration law. You're saying that they are leftists?

"White Alabama is QUITE leftist. And they have shown it with this new anti-immigration law." Got to say that's the first time I have seen Alabama republicans referred to as leftist around here.

[jowsybart]

15. look at what western europeans have compared to us

there is something very wrong with america.

And when something is very wrong, you have to look at fundamentals. Not just dumbly point out things that are wrong. You have to ask why things are as they are.

[pampango]

16. I agree with all you said. Which has nothing to do with Alabama republican immigration laws.

The fundamentals are that Western Europe has high/progressive taxes, strong unions, effective national health care systems, social safety nets and corporate regulation.

Republicans (in Alabama or any other state) don't want high/progressive taxes, strong unions, effective health care or safety nets or regulation of corporations. They would like to distract us by getting us to blame our problems not on the real causes above, but on those sneaky "others". Canada and Europe prove that the policies above are the key to successful progressive societies.

A CEO, a tea party member, a union worker and an immigrant are sitting at a table when a plate with a dozen cookies arrives. Before anyone else can make a move, the CEO reaches out to rake in eleven of the cookies. When the other three look at him in surprise, the CEO locks eyes with the tea party member. "You better watch them," the executive says with a nod toward the union worker and the immigrant. "They want a piece of your cookie."

[jowsybart]

17. you confuse cause and effect

you wrote:
"The fundamentals are that Western Europe has high/progressive taxes, strong unions, effective national health care systems, social safety nets and corporate regulation."


Those are EFFECTS of causative forces. What causative forces? When people on this forum start asking THAT question, we MIGHT be getting somewhere.

you wrote:
"Republicans (in Alabama or any other state) don't want high/progressive taxes, strong unions, effective health care or safety nets or regulation of corporations. "

There are reason why. Start investigating for those reasons and we MIGHT be getting somewhere. But on NO POLITICAL FORUM have I ever seen, in 15 years, any such investigation or discussion, not in any sustained form.


you wrote:
"Canada and Europe prove that the policies above are the key to successful progressive societies."


NO. Those policies are the EFFECTS of other forces. Now let us begin the discussion of what those forces are.

[pampango]

18. And I see you began no such discussion.

We disagree. I believe those progressive policies CAUSE progressive societies. Progressive societies didn't just 'happen' in Canada and Europe. They were created through the hard work of fighting conservative forces and implementing progressive policies. You seem to believe that some other, as yet undefined forces, cause progressive societies to appear which then enact progressive policies.

If so, why do we spend our time fighting for progressive taxes, strong unions, effective health care, a stronger safety net and better corporate regulation, when all we have to do is identify those undefined forces and these progressive policies will follow?

[jowsybart]

23. read and learn

you wrote:

"We disagree. "


Yes.

you wrote:
"I believe those progressive policies CAUSE progressive societies. Progressive societies didn't just 'happen' in Canada and Europe. "

So you have already said.


you wrote:
"They were created through the hard work of fighting conservative forces and implementing progressive policies. You seem to believe that some other, as yet undefined forces, cause progressive societies to appear which then enact progressive policies."

Social cohesion and cultural unity. Also good governmental structure. These are the forces that create the policies. Any western peoples who are non-diverse, united by a strong, cohesive culture will want these things--a strong welfare state, universal healthcare, progressive taxation, a military primarily for defense, etc. These desires are a natural function of a united, unified, homogeneous western culture.

That is how the force of the will of the people is created.

Now, on to effecting the will of the people.

And when the majority wants these things, if their governmental structure is correct, that is if the structure allows for a sufficienet degree of democracy, then the will of the people will be carried out.

What structure of govt allows for this degree of democracy? Parliamentarian structure of govt. That is, where the power of the government is primarily placed in the hands of politicians elected from small voting districts, in particular, districts that are relatively homogeneous and nondiverse. And these small, homogeneous, nondiverse districts ensure that the electorate shares a good deal of common interest. Thus the electorate is better able to elect politicians that represent the interests of the people and they are better able to hold these politicians accountable. WHen the electorate is divided, they cannot hold the politicians accountable.

The other western nations have parliamentarian govts. They are smaller nations, have smaller districts, and thus districts are less diverse, more homogeneous, and therefore more united. In addition, the demographic makeup of the other western nations means that their populace is less diverse, more homogeneous.

That creates the force that effects the will of the people.

These are the forces that are weak in america. Thus america cannot have those things that the other western nations have. A Mac truck has the power to pull 10 tons. An Audi does not. The other western nations have the aforementioned forces in play, and thus they have the things that we cannot have. Not unless we make over our nation in their image, heeding the rules of politics as outlined above.



you wrote:
"If so, why do we spend our time fighting for progressive taxes, strong unions, effective health care, a stronger safety net and better corporate regulation, when all we have to do is identify those undefined forces and these progressive policies will follow?"


You have not a clue what is going on. That is why you thrash and struggle in vain. You are like animals try to drive a car.

[pampango]

24. Some level of ethnically pure ("relatively homogeneous and nondiverse") society

is a prerequisite for achieving a progressive society?

Is that why you view white Alabamians as leftist? Because they desire a "relatively homogenous and nondiverse" society? "White Alabama is QUITE leftist. And they have shown it with this new anti-immigration law."

"You have not a clue what is going on. That is why you thrash and struggle in vain. You are like animals try to drive a car." Who is the "you" that "have not a clue what is going on, is thrashing and struggling in vain and are like animals trying to drive a car?" Are you referring to people who believe that diverse, multicultural societies can also be progressive?

If diversity is incompatible with progressivism that kind of dooms, not only the US, but many other Western democracies that have high levels of immigration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005">List of countries by foreign-born population

Switzerland - 22.9%
Australia - 19.9%
Canada - 18.7%
Austria - 14.9%
US - 12.8%
Germany - 12.3%
Sweden - 12.3%
Spain - 10.8%
Netherlands - 10.5%
France - 10.1%
UK - 9.0%

As you can see the US is not the most diverse country in the world. Those countries that have more immigration, as well as those that have slightly less, are all more progressive than the US. I don't see the connection between immigration/diversity and how progressive a society is.

[jowsybart]

25. if you had done your research, you would know that....

...the highest fraction of non-whites in any western euro nation is about 10 percent. There are of course white europeans from other euro nations in them, but those people do not count for as much when it comes to allowing the elite to divide and rule the populace. They are quite alike the residents there. It is not binary/on-off, but instead a spectrum, a sliding scale. Just like the universe, in most cases.


in any event, any objective person should be able to see that as west euro nations grow larger while the elite have pumped them full of foreign labor, they have grown more rightwing economically. Why? Loss of unity, social cohesion, etc. Thus decreasing the degree of democracy, and thus making the govt less under the control of the people.

The elite have known about this divide et impera principle for centuries. In fact the american federal govt was engineered to use this principle to allow the elite to control it.
Likewise the EU was devised to use the same principles.

And of course your entire reply was devoted to witch-hunting a "racist." The fakeleft is of course propagandized to be ultra-alert to any signs of "racism." You of course ignored all the other aspects of my posts to "zero in" on what you are programmed to perceive as "racism."

So many other ideas that I touched upon in my posts here. But you zero in on one thing. Just as you were programmed to do.

[pampango]

26. You're the one that took the immigration figures I provided and reduced them down to race.

"And of course your entire reply was devoted to witch-hunting a "racist." I mentioned race no where, only levels of immigration which can be from anywhere.

You respond with "the highest fraction of non-whites in any western euro nation is about 10 percent. There are of course white europeans from other euro nations in them...". You proclaim that "White Alabama is QUITE leftist" and that "districts that are relatively homogeneous and nondiverse" are best. You inject race into the discussion and then accuse me of "witch-hunting a "racist."

Thou dost protest too much about "witch-hunting a "racist" when no one but you has even mentioned race or "nondiversity" into the discussion. Does any discussion of immigration cause you to feel that those who don't agree with you are calling you a racist even if they don't say that or even bring up the topic of race? Are you reacting "as you were programmed to do"?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlphaCentauri]

20. I guess fake leftist support the wealthy elite and their cheap foreign labor

opposing immigration reform, best way to keep cheap labor? make it illegal.

[jowsybart]

22. the argument is that immig reform means amnesty, which sends a signal....

...to those other foreigners yet outside and wanting in, telling them to "come on in and we will regularize you in time".

But this is really a mere quibble. The white alabamans that are being attacked in this thread are FIGHTERS against the elite and their cheap foreign labors. At least they have that going for them.

The fakeleftists are quisling traitors, mindwashed drones. Oh sure, the GOP has its drones that are mindwashed into thinking that trickle down economics is good, that progressive taxation is bad, etc. But at least those people have some justification for joining the other side in that the so-called Left in america has demonized and alienated them, thus pushing them into the arms of the GOP.
THe fakeleftists really have no such excuse.

[Fool Count]

31. Shouldn't it be "Illegal immigrants fear for children in case of deportation"?

Or did they start deporting legal immigrants already? Of course, the correct title would sound too much
like "Criminals fear for children in case of imprisonment".

[pampango]

32. You'll have to ask the French press why they left out the adjective that matters so much to you.

Perhaps the nouns - "immigrants", "children" - were more important from a French perspective than the adjective describing them.