Photos of coffins break through censorship established by Bush

[Pale_Rider]

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2004/abril/juev22/18ataud.html

THE censorship established by the White House on photos of the coffins of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq has been broken. Last Sunday, The Seattle Times newspaper rebelled against the Bush administration ban and published an article titled The somber labor of honoring the fallen, which began by describing the image of a pile of aluminum boxes draped in U.S. flags.

Last Monday, the popular news web site, Drudge Report, had as a front page headline, The media has corpses, over a photo of 18 coffins.

Footage of the inside of a cargo plane carrying coffins can be found on http://www.thememoryhole.org , where it is explained that a number of images are circulating on web sites and e-mail, sidestepping the U.S. military’s position. It also recommends sending on similar images.

[Poiuyt]

1. And the person who took the photo lost her job because of it

One more instance of increased unemployment because of bush

[Tempest]

3. Not just her, but her husband was fired as well

Why he was fired, I don't know.

[MidwestMomma]

49. Victim of the Bush doctrine: You're either with us or against us

[skip fox]

24. Sites listed below are slowing the thread loading. Many photos here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1453879

[PaDUer]

53. Defense Department ordered Thursday

that no more photographs be released..
http://www.drudgereport.com/

Scarborough has some military guy on saying they're doing it for the families and that this order has been in place since 1991...guess he forgot that Clinton was at the airbase when the bodies came in on the planes in the day time!

[Mike Daniels]

71. For the families.....

I could understand a regulation against taking pictures of open caskets where someone could stumble upon a picture of a dead family member before they were emotionally prepped for it. Although, I imagine that courtesy would at least require asking the family if the picture could be published.

However, given the caskets are closed in this picture I'm not quite sure how showing a picture of a coffin is disrspectful to the families in this case.

[PaDUer]

72. The photos aren't disrespectful

to the families..the pentagon wanted all this hidden..Wonder what they're telling the families when their son is sent home in the box, are they having them sign a paper stating to keep the obit quiet, no press or what!!! Shameful! Yet, the resident has NOT ever attended a funeral! Wonder if we should send those photos to babs--you know, the person who didn't want to dirty or whatever her beautiful mind!

[deportivoI]

68. I Saw that

on the news. A general was defending the act of firing the woman. And the news guy said arent you just whitewashing the war to the Public? The general said, I am not here to discuss it just that the woman broke the pentagon rule. Does the pentagon have authority over civilians and was she working for the military or the Pentagon?

[rocktivity]

2. The memoryhole page is a memory

The link no longer works--they're gone.

Right link. http://www.thememoryhole.org/coffin_photos/

:headbang:
rocknation

[bif]

5. They're still here...

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery.htm

[leftchick]

8. Try this memory hole link....

It works fine for me....

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery3.htm

[Pale_Rider]

13. Check this link ... the wounded of Iraq and Afghanistan wars ...

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm

[bobthedrummer]

31. There are thousands like him if we count the Iraqis

but that's not the policy of the administration of George W. Bush aka The War President, nor the neo-conservative dominated Rumsfeld DoD:grr:

[Pale_Rider]

9. It was up earlier and last night ...

... their server must be overwhelmed. Anyway, take a gander (take a shower afterwards) whats on Drudge Report.

http://www.drudgereport.com/dover.htm

[oustemnow]

17. I love the coda to Drudge's article

Something to the effect of, "As always, we leave it to readers to come to their own conclusions."

When has that EVER been the case with Drudge's sensationalistic site?

[brooklynite]

12. They've moved to...

http://www.blancmange.net/tmh/welcome.html

[seemslikeadream]

44. This is a test post

I'm trying to post pictures so they won't disappear

[skip fox]

23. MeomryHole is slowing up the page loading. Many photos here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1453879

[Danieljay]

4. the second link isn't working

your memory hole link doesn't work? Any suggestions? Thank you!

Daniel

[chimpymustgo]

7. Does this work?

Woman loses her job over coffins photo

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001909527_coffin22m.html

[Occulus]

6. bleagh.

ignore my silly musings....

[Pale_Rider]

11. Check the spelling on your link ...

[bif]

10. Someone aought to copy as many pics as they can

While they're still up.

[seemslikeadream]

14. Direct Links

They're working but busy I'm starting to copy

Page 1:

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery.htm

Page 2:

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery1.htm

Page 3

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/gallery2.htm

[Pale_Rider]

15. Probably should copy the wounded as well ...

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm

[oneighty]

19. May your God/Gods

Damn you forever and ever you warmongers of the world, for the damage done to a mother's son.

180

[Misunderestimator]

28. Those links DO work

After getting several DNS error pages, I kept trying and the first one is now loading... Taking a while, but there seem to be quite a few pictures.

Thanks for the links to the sub-pages. The main one from thememoryhole is really overloaded.

[nolabels]

16. Jackals also do their work in the darkness

So much for them thousand points of light x(

[fishnfla]

18. Question: when did this policy take effect? (no coffin photos)

One source says 1991
another 2000, under Clinton
then another says 2003,under the chimp

[Lorien]

20. Clinton attended funerals

of fallen military personal (like those of the USS Cole) which were filmed, so I doubt that his administration ever had such a policy.

[UpInArms]

25. here's what the WP says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A55816-2003Oct20?language=printer

excerpt:

In March, on the eve of the Iraq war, a directive arrived from the Pentagon at U.S. military bases. "There will be no arrival ceremonies for, or media coverage of, deceased military personnel returning to or departing from Ramstein airbase or Dover base, to include interim stops," the Defense Department said, referring to the major ports for the returning remains.

A Pentagon spokeswoman said the military-wide policy actually dates from about November 2000 -- the last days of the Clinton administration -- but it apparently went unheeded and unenforced, as images of caskets returning from the Afghanistan war appeared on television broadcasts and in newspapers until early this year. Though Dover Air Force Base, which has the military's largest mortuary, has had restrictions for 12 years, others "may not have been familiar with the policy," the spokeswoman said. This year, "we've really tried to enforce it."

President Bush's opponents say he is trying to keep the spotlight off the fatalities in Iraq. "This administration manipulates information and takes great care to manage events, and sometimes that goes too far," said Joe Lockhart, who as White House press secretary joined President Bill Clinton at several ceremonies for returning remains. "For them to sit there and make a political decision because this hurts them politically -- I'm outraged."

<snip>

Ceremonies for arriving coffins, not routine during the Vietnam War, became increasingly common and elaborate later. After U.S. soldiers fell in Beirut, Grenada, Panama, the Balkans, Kenya, Afghanistan and elsewhere, the military often invited in cameras for elaborate ceremonies for the returning remains, at Andrews Air Force Base, Dover, Ramstein and elsewhere -- sometimes with the president attending.

<snip>

But in early 1991, at the time of the Persian Gulf War, the Pentagon said there would be no more media coverage of coffins returning to Dover, the main arrival point; a year earlier, Bush was angered when television networks showed him giving a news briefing on a split screen with caskets arriving.

<snip>

The photos of coffins continued for the first two years of the current Bush administration, from Ramstein and other bases. Then, on the eve of the Iraq invasion, word came from the Pentagon that other bases were to adopt Dover's policy of making the arrival ceremonies off limits.

...more...

[fishnfla]

30. Thanks for the info UIA nt

[Domitan]

21. The burning question is this:

Will regular circulation of those photos and future US-flag draped coffin shots make a difference in turning more Americans against the Bush administration?

[pippin]

22. How can it not?

[Domitan]

26. Look at how much info has been stacked against Bush

O'Neill, Clarke, and others who showcase the ills of the Whitehouse; the increasing violence in Iraq and increasing number of announced soldier deaths; the economy worries, and so on...

So many people still blind and willing to support the Bush administration in spite of the evidence. So it's understandable to be cynical here in questioning whether or not this will finally open the people's eyes.

[worldgonekrazy]

33. Its all adding up

Bush's credibility has gone down quite a bit, and even though most polls still show him leading Kerry the important part is that what little ground he had to stand on ("war time president") is falling out from underneath him.

Plus, there is still a lot to come. The 9/11 Commission is going to have a few more public hearings in May, and this is after they meet with Bush and Cheney. It should be interesting. Then on top of that you've got these indictments against members of Cheney's staff for outing a CIA agent (Plame) that are supposedly coming down sometime soon. Of course, thats been the word for months now but I still hold up hope.

Then there is the Cheney Energy Task Force, the investigations into pre-war intelligence, the question of how much the war will cost, the potential for a draft, and so forth. The biggest thing is that the Republicans are starting to turn on Bush on a number of these issues. Cracks in the ranks during an election year is quite bad for Bush.

[Domitan]

34. That all sounds good and I hope you are right

But the fear that the public is too thick is not unfounded. Nevertheless, it would be great if the critical mass finally is reached, and we see Bush and Co. tumble down the abyss never to return.

[Domitan]

37. In addition

Should the draft be enacted before the election, I have very little doubt that it will significantly turn most of the country against Bush.

[Bridget Burke]

40. Actually, that's not the burning question.

The burning question is--will the American people wake up to what's happening in Iraq? Will they fully realize that our people are dying? (Other people are dying, as well, but let's start out with the easy stuff.)

Then, will they realize that the war was based on a lie? (WMD) And the suggested reason is another lie? (connection to 9/11) And the later excuse ("helping" the Iraqis) doesn't seem valid, either?

The burning question is how to get this insane exercise stopped--ASAP. I firmly believe that tossing out Bush in November is necessary--for many other reasons, as well.

But these pictures are not primarily a political tool. Please!

[sophie996]

27. credit where it's due ...

how about sending thank-you e-mails to the seattle times and reporter bernton? they're getting a lot, but more can't hurt.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001909527_coffin22m.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/insidethetimes/


Thursday, April 22, 2004 - Page updated at 11:27 A.M.

Woman loses her job over coffins photo

By Hal Bernton
Seattle Times staff reporter

TAMI SILICIO
Flag-draped coffins are shown inside a cargo plane April 7 at Kuwait International Airport, in a photograph published Sunday. The photographer said she hoped the image would help families understand the care with which fallen soldiers are returned home.

Inside The Times: Powerful photograph offered chance to tell an important story

A military contractor has fired Tami Silicio, a Kuwait-based cargo worker whose photograph of flag-draped coffins of fallen U.S. soldiers was published in Sunday's edition of The Seattle Times.

Silicio was let go yesterday for violating U.S. government and company regulations, said William Silva, president of Maytag Aircraft, the contractor that employed Silicio at Kuwait International Airport.

"I feel like I was hit in the chest with a steel bar and got my wind knocked out. I have to admit I liked my job, and I liked what I did," Silicio said.

Her photograph, taken earlier this month, shows more than 20 flag-draped coffins in a cargo plane about to depart from Kuwait. Since 1991, the Pentagon has banned the media from taking pictures of caskets being returned to the United States.

[Tansy_Gold]

51. Every one of them is someone's child.

Whether they are also a wife or husband, brother or sister, dad or mom, first of all they are some mother's child. Some mother conceived and carried them, gave birth to them, watched them grow up. . . .

<snip from the Seattle article>


Her job put her in contact with soldiers who sometimes accompanied the coffins to the airport. Having lost one of her own sons to a brain tumor, Silicio said, she tried to offer support to those grieving over a lost comrade.

"It kind of helps me to know what these mothers are going through, and I try to watch over their children as they head home," she said in an earlier interview.

<end snip>

[Timefortruth]

74. Except that he incorrectly states that the policy began in 1991.

A very important fact neglected.

[Pale_Rider]

29. Addendum: FOIA request ...

According to cursor.org, the photos were made available by the Air Force after a FOIA request from The Memory Hole.

The U.S. Air Force releases 361 photographs of flag-draped coffins and services welcoming deceased soldiers at Dover Air Force Base, following a Freedom of Information Act request filed by The Memory Hole's Russ Kick.
http://www.cursor.org

According to Russ ...

I specified Dover because they process the remains of most, if not all, US military personnel killed overseas. Not surpisingly, my request was completely rejected. Not taking 'no' for an answer, I appealed on several grounds, and—to my amazement—the ruling was reversed. The Air Force then sent me a CD containing 361 photographs of flag-draped coffins and the services welcoming the deceased soldiers.

Score one for freedom of information and the public's right to know.



http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover/index.htm

[Nile]

32. If it were my child in one of those coffins,...

I would not want it displayed to the world.

[mbperrin]

36. Why would you want it to be a secret that people die in war?

After all, nobody's named at all; these coffins are draped in the flag, which is the one they give you in the name of a "grateful" nation.
Nothing bad there.

If it shortens the war due to the truth that people die in a war, that would save others' lives.

Why wouldn't you want to save others' lives?

[Nile]

66. What secret? Everyone knows that people die in war.

It does not have to be politicized and advertised thou. You just want a display for your own personal agenda. IMO that is just sick.

[rasputin1952]

73. One of the reasons the military has burial rites, and memorials...

is so that not only the military unit can remember that these soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines have paid with their lives. But also so that the rest of the nation can grieve when one of their fellow citizens returns home. This is a somber occasion. And if you have never been to a military funeral, you should attend one. It may be an enlightening experience.

These men and women did not die close to home, they lost their lives for what their country, in this case more specifically, what their Commander in Chief, required of them. When they come home in coffins, they should be greeted with honor and grief. To hide this denigrates the sacrifice they made. To hide things, you accept the notion that what they were doing is not right; it must be hidden from view because there is a cloud of suspicion as to why they died.

I have been to many military funerals, I have heard Taps played so many times, I awaken to it now in the middle of the night, tears in my eyes for those that were lost for the enrichment of people that never knew what sacrifice was.

I weep for the families of those that were lost, the lives unfulfilled, the dreams unmet. This is not a war of defense, it is a war of greed, based on lies and upheld by the powers that usurped Freedom and Liberty for a misguided adventure that they themselves would never make.

I will fight this cabal in every legal way I can. bush and his minions of evil may make money out of this, but they have brought a a new set of values with them, that will destroy this nation if he is not booted out of office.

Put the pictures up; honor these men and women, and bring them home quickly...O8)

[Sequoia]

38. But you wouldn't know

it was your child because they all display the same flag. We should see all the coffins and STOP Bush and this thughs KILLING OUR CHILDREN, HUSBANDS, WIVES, BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!! I think the media should have hutzpah (sp?) to show them and tell the WH to F off. So what's going to happen, Colin's FCC son, those media whore-mongers gonna fine us? Does it really matter what we think in the USA since Bush is going to do what he wants, period. He dosen't care because no one has the balls to start impeachment proceedings.

[Misunderestimator]

39. It would be out of Respect

Most American citizens would see the coffins as a tribute. If one of my brothers were among those coffins, I would be glad that, though I'm not a religious sort, his soul would be lifted away by such loving support after having lived such tragedy.

[Mari333]

47. since my stepson is in Baghdad right now

I would allow it. I would let everyone see what Bush has done, and let everyone see the truth.
If I have to suffer every day wondering if our child will come home alive, let other people who refuse to even "think" about this war finally see it and suffer along with me
Its long overdue
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[Red State Rebel]

48. I agree, whatever side you are on, exploiting the deaths of young men

and women for political reasons is wrong. Sorry, thats just the way I feel about it.

[Timefortruth]

76. Using the flag draped remains of a 9/11 victim in a paid political

commercial is wrong.

Reporting news and showing honor and respect for fallen soldiers is not politicizing it any more than Kennedy's funeral was a political ploy to prop Johnson. The issue is concealing the loss from the public which is political censorship.

Huge difference. If Kerry used these photos in a commercial it would be the worst sort of exploitation, as low as the president's campaign reached when it used human remains in an ad.

[newyorican]

55. Ah yes...

to die in obscurity...what every parent wants for their child </sarcasm>.

[Timefortruth]

75. If my child were in one of those coffins I would demand that

what they have done be displayed to the world.

It is utter nonsense that this policy has anything to do with the soldiers loved ones. Public respect for their courage is hardly damaging.

I'm sure you know why the remains are returned in secret, but in case you missed it, it is so that Chimp can conceal the emotional impact the numbers of lost have from America. And it works.

[Skittles]

77. you cannot respect the fallen

by hiding them

[UpInArms]

35. Reuters story: U.S. Contractor Fired for Military Coffin Photo

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=4912053§ion=news

By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. contractor and her husband have been fired after her photograph of 20 flag- draped coffins of slain U.S. soldiers going home from Iraq was published in violation of military rules.

<snip>

The military says the policy is in place to protect the privacy of families of those killed, but critics have said the rules are aimed at sanitizing the war for the public.

<snip>

The Pentagon has declined to comment on Silicio's case but spokesman James Turner said the policy of media coverage of such issues has been in effect since 1991.

...more...

[kaitykaity]

42. Mike Malloy in my head.

I hate these people.

[Maeve]

65. How soon before they get new jobs?

I'd bet sooner rather than later...between the quality of the pictures and the notoriety of the story. And I trust there are some employers who want to reward folks who stand up to Bushie rules.

[evworldeditor]

41. Air America Radio Interview with Photographer Friday AM

"Unfiltered" is supposed to interview the lady who took the photos tomorrow from Kuwait. Runs from 9AM to 11AM Eastern Time

www.airamericaradio.com


----------------------------
http://www.evworld.com

[leftchick]

43. Ha! Wolfie just did a segment on thememoryhole photos!!!

and showed some of them! The DOD is going to challenge the legality of the FOI finding!

[seemslikeadream]

45. A picture

[evworldeditor]

46. CNN Anderson Cooper 360 Taking Viewer Poll Now

Current vote of 744 viewers at time I took poll was 83% in favor of releasing photos, 17% against

--------------------------
http://www.evworld.com

[PaDUer]

54. They changed the poll

E-POLL

Would you object to having large wind turbines visible from your home?
Yes No Don't Know

[MidwestMomma]

50. Double HA! Local Kansas City news evening news teaser about photos

"Tonight, the casket controversy" or something like that. The barrier is coming down...

[Katie]

52. yet its ok for bush to show the remains of 9/11 victims in his ads

Bush Exploits Photo of Dead Bodies, Despite Ban
As the nation headed for war, Bush "clamped down" on the media,banning reporters from photographing flag-draped caskets of soldiers killed in combat . Bush said the policy was enforced to "spare the feelings of military families." Dont the 9/11 families deserve the same consideration? http://www.misleader.org/daily_mislead/Read.asp?fn=df03052004.html

[MidwestMomma]

56. Bush's use of the 9/11 victims is criminal

i hope it backfires on him. May he rot in hell...

[girl gone mad]

57. What good will that do?

They're already out there. Put them on P2P, print them out, email them. The genie is out of the bottle.

[DeepModem Mom]

58. Photo on front page of NYT today, and also Boston Globe --

[revcarol]

59. In color?

We need to see the colors of the flag. See too many faded tattered flags attached to pick-up trucks.

The red in the flag does stand for blood, after all.

[DeepModem Mom]

60. In color in NYT; BG report was from another poster --

[catmandu57]

61. This isn't going away

it's still there this morning 23 april, as well as it should be. Showing photos of returning coffins is not disrespectful, what is despicable is using our military in such a way.
I live near KC also and it was all over local news last night, and is still there now, yes, it's wrong to use these for political gain, but, it's wrong not to show the consequences of this miserable failure.

[DeepModem Mom]

62. I think this issue is out of their hands now --

I get the sense these photos are nationwide today. Bush can no longer hide our war dead, and SHAME on this administration for trying.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

63. TIMES COVERED IT!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x504808

[74dodgedart]

64. It was on the Today Show this morning.

And the story of the employee who got fired.

I bet Dick and George are pulling their hair out..

[peekaloo]

67. CBS is giving it lots of play, also.

How the hell is this photo "disrepectful"? Boo$h grieves, hugs and "consoles" family members, as he is fond of saying, yet doesn't bother to attend any funerals.

Since Dick has so little hair left to pull let's hope he's pulling out Georgie's. }(

[74dodgedart]

69. Its only disrespectful if a democrat does it

When a republican shows bodies (see Bush WTC ads) its OK...

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.