Conservative Think Tank Study Finds Teachers Are 'Overpaid'

[Courtesy Flush]

Source: NPR

The American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think thank in Washington, D.C., is causing waves with a study (pdf) it released today that found teachers are overcompensated in comparison to "similarly educated and experienced private-sector workers."

The organization said it took a "comprehensive" look at teacher's salaries and tried to take into account what it says are unique areas of compensation for teachers, including generous pension plans and better job security.

Read more: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/11/01/141915912/conservative-think-tank-study-finds-teachers-are-overpaid?ft=1&f=100

[Skittles]

1. let's have full disclosure

what are the salaries of these conservative think tank hacks???

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Sorry, too busy counting my money to comment.

[YvonneCa]

25. ...

... :7 Good one!

[SeattleVet]

3. How does someone with a Masters in Education...

compare with someone working for a mondo-bank or on Wall Street with a Masters in Business Administration? Which is more likely to make a positive impact and contribution in the long run?

[Yupster]

11. Well the master's in education

isn't worth a bucket of spit, and that's coming from me with my master's in education (Curriculum And Instruction) actually. It was a degree of complete nonsense. Night and summer classes which we usually got out before half the class time was filled. The teachers were tired after school all day. The professor knew that so blew it off.

We were all there for the stipend and everyone knew that.

Who knows, a master's in business could be the same thing. I don't have one of them.

[soleiri]

23. You get out what you put in

I'm almost done with my MA in Special education and I've learned a lot from it and I'll be a better teacher for it.

[Yupster]

30. None of us put anything into it

and we got master's degrees.

Sometimes cliches are right and sometimes not.

For instance which one's right?

Look before you leap, or

He who hesitates is lost?

[tabasco]

61. Bash higher education and teachers in the same post!

Well done, Sparky!

How do you justify speaking for all those other teachers, anyway?

[No Elephants]

36. Hmmmm.

[plumbob]

47. Must be a lousy local university. My MAEd has been invaluable

to my teaching, both online and in brick environments.

I got a whole $1500 a year raise for getting it, too!

Job satisfaction is worth something.

[Yupster]

56. It is

but it's where 90 % of the teachers in two school districts got their master's if they have one. It's the only college offering one within a two hour drive.

[JCMach1]

50. MBA is the same thing these days... sold like bubble gum

[Yupster]

55. Doesn't surprise me

Seems like lots of people just go through the motions to fill in paperwork these days. The police come to mind especially. I feel like they are more insurance agents than cops.

[CRK7376]

57. I've got both, plus a 3rd Masters

I've got both an MBA which I will never use, but it helped with getting me promoted in the military. I've got a MAEdu in Secondary Education which I use all the time, it's made me a better teacher and was my second degree. Then the Army sent me to their War College and a 3rd master's in Strategic Studies was earned and is very useful for me. As others state, it's what you put into a degree you will get out of it. Worked my tail off on two of the degrees, but hated the MBA. I have no business in the business world...

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. The teacher of course

What a dumb question.

[SKKY]

64. It's kinda the wrong question to ask, for both of them...

...because if making a positive impact and contribution is the litmus test, the vast majority of people doing that don't even have a Bachelor's, or an Associate's degree for that matter.

[Sabriel]

4. How do you find an equivalent for responsibility?

At any given time, a teacher is responsible for the well-being of a number of other people's children. Who else in the "private sector" does that?

It's not quantifiable, sorry.

[Swede Atlanta]

5. What a surprise........

These two organizations would find that Jesus' crucifixion and death were not enough sacrifice and send him to hard labor.

[msanthrope]

6. What a load of shite. Even Michelle Rhee disagrees with it...

From the OP--

"Michelle Rhee, the former chancellor of the Washington, D.C. school system, who has been a nemesis of the teachers' unions, sided with them on this issue. She told Politico that "under the status quo in most school districts, good classroom teachers are not only undervalued in pay, but as professionals generally.""

[MisterP]

7. fine, raise the private-sector workers' wages until they're even

[Kingofalldems]

9. I like it--in fact it is long overdue.

[boppers]

34. Indeed.

It's not that teachers are overpaid, it's that's the vast majority of private sector workers (most without unions) haven't been seeing the increases in their own paychecks for the last 30+ years.

[The Magistrate]

40. Exactly, Sir

[Dutchmaster]

8. But . . I thought under capitalism they are allowed to make as much money for themselves as possible

I mean really, who are these fucking communists and socialists that want to create wage controls. Oh, republicants? Amazing. Color me shocked.

[alp227]

10. but Wall Streeters, unemployed heirs, administrators, and John Boehner are NOT overpaid?

[Yupster]

12. My guess is it depends how you value the pensions

I don't think the salaries are anything special. (I was a public school teacher for ten years)

The pensions can be incredible though. I have two friends, husband and wife. They both retired from long teacher careers. She was a department head. He was a head coach. They retired at age 64 - 62. Together they make over $ 100,000 a year for as long as the last of them is alive. They are both in excellent health. One of them could easily live 30 years in retirement. In that case they would have gotten $ 3 million which is more money than they made during their whole teaching careers.

So how do you measure the value of that pension?

To spread it out over their whole teaching careers you'd have to add $ 100,000 to each year's salaries, and their first salaries were something around $ 8,000 a year.

[iemitsu]

28. those fabulous pensions are a thing of the past.

and my wife and i won't be living so well if we ever get to retire.

[Yupster]

29. Well that's what they're getting right now

And they'll probably be getting it for the next 30 years.

[No Elephants]

43. They? What happened to your teacher's pension?

I admire your certainty, given that pensions for state employees seem to be on the chopping block in many states.

[Yupster]

53. They are the couple I'm talking about

They are retired teachers. When they retired they moved away to a nice vacation home, but we still stay in close touch.

[Sancho]

45. My wife and I started in the 70's for $8000 salaries.

I was a science teacher. I was offered more than double the salary ($20,000) to work for an oil company. I taught in a public school for five years instead. The retirement and health insurance were part of the deal - and we always considered benefits as part of income. My wife has five degrees and has been teaching 35 years. (Three degrees are not in education.) She makes about the same teaching as a new graduate in business from the local university, but she has good insurance and retirement (unless the Florida legislature continues to take our retirement away). When she works out of education, the money is better, but the benefits in teaching are part of the contract. Most people who leave teaching for the private sector make more money.

I left public school teaching and I make more than I would have as a career teacher. I put up my own retirement now. I've made projections as best as one can given the crazy economy, but in general a good retirement account will generate about the same at 65 as my wife will get from the state. If anything, the private account will do better. Meanwhile, the state has decades of making profits investing billions of money collected from teachers and state employees. The state makes a much higher percent over a long time than they pay out to the retirees.

[plumbob]

48. I have been teaching 3 decades. My current salary is $63,000

a year with a Master's degree and 8 certified fields to teach.

My pension will pay $24,000.

Fabulous?

[Yupster]

54. Do you work for a private school?

I've never seen a pension formula for public school teachers that is so low as yours.

Typically (and each state is different of course) the pension formula looks something like this...

years experience X 2.3 = % of five years highest pay.

In your case then it would be 30 X 2.3 = 69 % of your five best salaries.

Let's say your average five salaries were $ 60,000 (assuming you haven't gotten big raises lately.)

The formula would be $ 60,000 X .69 = $ 41,400

Are you sure you're reading your fomula right?

I've never seen a state's that was so far off the other states. They're mostly pretty close to each other. I work with these things at work every day.

Anyway, if your state pension formula is that bad, you might consider moving to a reciprical state that will let you transfer your years to their system. If your numbers are right it would make a big difference to you over the rest of your life.

Best of luck. I admire 30 year teachers. I only made it 10 years before I left the classroom.

[plumbob]

59. It's a public district, all right. part of my problem is that nearly half of

my check is additive compensation and not counted toward retirement. Our multiplier is 2.3; you hit it right on the nose.

Part of my trouble is that our kids grew up here and our grandkids and great-grandkids are here as well.

Good thing is, everything we own is paid for, so we'll be okay.

I've been fortunate in my teaching years - the kids have always felt good about being in my classroom, safe mentally, emotionally and physically. After 20 years, you start getting children of your original students, then about now, some of the grandchildren - that's truly fun.

[The Second Stone]

13. Not as overpaid as right wing think tank

propagandists.

[Grins]

14. George Carlin said it best..

Jebus! George Carlin had these bastards pegged years ago:

"Education! Politicians know that word. They use it on you.

Politicians have traditionally hidden behind three things; the flag, the Bible, and children. No child left behind! No child left behind! Oh, really? Well, it wasn't long ago you were talking about giving kids a Head Start.

Head Start. Left behind. Someone's losing fucking ground here.

But there’s a reason for this. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this. There’s a reason education sucks. It’s the same reason it will never, ever, ever, be fixed. It’s never going to get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what ‘ya got. Because the owners of this country don’t want that! I’m talking about the real owners now; the big, the wealthy, the real owners, the big, wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions.

<Snip>

But I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests.

You know something? They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don't want that.

'Ya know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient. Workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork; and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now, they're coming for your Social Security money. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. 'Ya know something? They'll get it! They'll get it all from you sooner or later, 'cuz they own this fucking place. It's a big club - and you ain't in it! You and I are not in "The Big Club"!

Use your Google machine and find the video. It's terrific.

[alp227]

63. here's the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jQT7_rVxAE

[madrchsod]

15. who really gives a shit what they have to say?

the brain dead on the right would agree the sun revolved around the world if the aei told them so. the rest of the world either don`t care and the rest know this study is bullshit. in the grand scheme of things this study does`t mean shit.

[SoapBox]

16. A "study" by AEI? Laughable.

It took a while but now we know that the AEI is a joke organization, funded
and run by Baggers.

The "study" is irrelevant.

[JackRiddler]

58. correction: Conservative think-tank... overpaid.

[Matariki]

17. When can we start eating these people?

[guitar man]

21. Right after

... you kill, dress and cook them. I've heard they can be a little tough and stringy so keep them moist and cook them slow :evilgrin:

[Hotler]

52. Cook them low and slow like a beef brisket..........

serve with lots of sauce.

[Kablooie]

32. That sounds like a pretty modest proposal to me.

[No Elephants]

35. LOL!

I read Gulliver's travels in elementary school. I thought it was nothing more than a clever fairy tale, but I loved it anyway. (Nothing wrong with a clever fairy tale.)

By the time I got to college, though, I knew better and had a huge crush on Swift.

Sadly, with the benefit of hindsight, I think Alzheimer's may have gotten him.

[Matariki]

39. heh.

lol

[No Elephants]

33. Who would really want to? Think about it.

[krispos42]

18. So after 3 decades of gutting private-sector wages and benefits...

...the exact same people then find that public-sector employees are making more.


:facepalm:

[RoccoR5955]

19. American Enterprise Institute is NOT a think tank...

It's more like a STINK tank, because whatever they do, STINKS!

[EC]

20. Well, yeah..

it was their worshipers that set up the private schools, so they set the salaries cheaper to begin with. So of course, now there is a wage to compare to, that they themselves set. Likely just for this purpose to break the unions and get the government $$$ for more schools.

[Left Coast2020]

24. Yeah! Lets publish another BS study that Cluster Faux can spew...

...all over their evening BS news broadcasts.

[and-justice-for-all]

22. The American Enterprise Institute can fuck off..nt

[blackspade]

27. The American Enterprise Institute is full of shit.

Teachers are underpaid for the level of effort and commitment that they have to make on behalf of our children and nation.

This is just another one of those 'studies' designed to undercut teachers and their unions in the ongoing effort to privatize the education system and turn kids into commodities.

Despicable.

[Little Tich]

31. The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research (AEI) had close ties to the Bush

administration. It's neoconservative and publishes papers on a number of issues, including healtcare, education, foreign policy and economics. It's been critizised for being partially funded by Exxonmobil and bribing scientists to downplay the threat from global warming. On November 22, it will host, together with CNN and the Heritage Foundation, the first GOP presidential debate on foreign policy. I can't wait to see if any of the GOP candidates are coherent enough to express an opinion about other countries.

Link to the AEI website:
http://www.aei.org/home

[No Elephants]

37. Perhaps even closer ties to the Koch crime family.

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/polluterwatch/koch-industries/american-enterprise-institute/

I think the Koch's may have founded this particular ideological shill group, er, I mean, "think" tank.

(look at the links given by Greenpeace at this page.)

Then again, all these crime families seem to be close to each other.

[TomCADem]

38. How Long Before Christ Christie Starts Another Set Of Interviews...

...claiming that he has been proven right.

[Downwinder]

41. Someone ought to take about five fourth grade classes down

there and turn them loose. Then ask if you are overpaid.

[DeSwiss]

42. Conservative Think Tanks = Their Best, ''The C'' Students'' - n/t

[onehandle]

44. Says the overpaid 'think' tank that contributes zero to society. nt

[trotsky]

46. We used to enjoy generous pension plans and job security in the private sector too.

But they succeeded in destroying those, and now are telling us how "overpaid" the public sector workers who fought to keep them are. Divide and conquer, it's been their strategy for decades and it is paying off big time.

[txlibdem]

49. Who cares what some Conservative "Think" Tank says??? They are all idiots with closed minds anyway

Give me the subject areas and I can tell you their next 3 press releases. Sometimes I hate being surrounded by the idiots and liars (Republicans).

[JCMach1]

51. BS, ask any teacher how many hours each week are spent working...

[Hardrada]

60. That whole "think" tank should be locked in a dank dungeon for keeps

with the key thrown into a distant lake.

[sarcasmo]

62. The right has been spending millions trying to destroy Unions.