AP Exclusive: Accuser filed complaint in next job

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE and SUZANNE GAMBOA

WASHINGTON (AP) - A woman who settled a sexual harassment complaint against GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain in 1999 complained three years later at her next job about unfair treatment, saying she should be allowed to work from home after a serious car accident and accusing a manager of circulating a sexually charged email, The Associated Press has learned.

Karen Kraushaar, 55, filed the complaint while working as a spokeswoman at the Immigration and Naturalization Service in the Justice Department in late 2002 or early 2003, with the assistance of her lawyer, Joel Bennett, who also handled her earlier sexual harassment complaint against Cain in 1999. Three former supervisors familiar with Kraushaar's complaint, which did not include a claim of sexual harassment, described it for the AP under condition of anonymity because the matter was handled internally by the agency and was not public.

To settle the complaint at the immigration service, Kraushaar initially demanded thousands of dollars in payment, a reinstatement of leave she used after the accident earlier in 2002, promotion on the federal pay scale and a one-year fellowship to Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, according to a former supervisor familiar with the complaint. The promotion itself would have increased her annual salary between $12,000 and $16,000, according to salary tables in 2002 from the U.S. Office of Personnel Management.

Kraushaar told the AP she considered her employment complaint "relatively minor" and she later dropped it.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20111109/D9QT3A9O0.html

[mwb970]

1. And? /nt

[lunatica]

2. My thought exactly

Is this supposed to proof of something?

[mwb970]

4. I guess so.

The implication seems to be that any time a person registers two complaints within a few years of each other, the existence of the second complaint automatically invalidates the first, regardless of the merits or actual circumstances of either one.

That's the best I can do. Right-wing "logic" is not my strong suit.

[Javaman]

14. +1 nt

[ArcticFox]

19. But don't apply that logic to corporate persons

If you did, practically no corporation would have any credibility.

[dkf]

6. These women are about to be torn apart.

[kestrel91316]

40. Nobody can satisfy you. NOBODY.

[Taverner]

32. +1000

Seems like she would have a better idea of what sexual harassment is...

[dkf]

3. This is part of the "sexually charged email "

The complaint also cited as objectionable an email that a manager had circulated comparing computers to women and men, a former supervisor said. The complaint claimed that the email, based on humor widely circulated on the Internet, was sexually explicit, according to the supervisor, who did not have a copy of the email. The joke circulated online lists reasons men and women were like computers, including that men were like computers because "in order to get their attention, you have to turn them on." Women were like computers because "even your smallest mistakes are stored in long-term memory for later retrieval."

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20111109/D9QT3A9O0.html

[Lance_Boyle]

5. Wow. She's quite the fisherwoman.

Or quite the money seeking whiner. Take your pick.

[Gormy Cuss]

59. Or a woman who understood what constitutes sexual harassment & inappropriate sexually charged emails

That joke would have violated the sexual harassment policy in every company where I've worked. It's just inappropriate for the workplace.

[customerserviceguy]

7. I remember that one going around some years ago

I didn't think of it as sexist then, other than in an insigificant humorous way. Being as it was evenhanded, did any women here consider it over the top?

[dkf]

8. Her complaint isn't that it's sexist but sexually charged.

This must be it?

From e-mail forward...
Computers are Like Men...
In order to get their attention, you have to turn them on.
They are supposed to help you solve problems, but half the time they are the problem.
They have a lot of data but are still clueless.
As soon as you commit to one, you realize that, if you had waited a little longer you could have had a better model.
They hear what you say, but not what you mean.

Computers are Like Women...
No one but the Creator understands their internal logic.
The native language they use to communicate with other computers is incomprehensible to everyone else.
Even your smallest mistakes are stored in long-term memory for later retrieval.
As soon as you make a commitment to one, you find yourself spending half your paycheck on accessories for it.
You do the same thing for years, and suddenly it's wrong.

http://celikins.blogspot.com/2006/04/computers-are-like-menand-women.html

[catrose]

9. I thought it was the insulting

Karen K is of the age to have had to put up with lots of these kinds of "jokes." They wear thin, but if you object, you have no sense of humor. Or worse. She's fixing to find out about the worse part.

[SemperEadem]

15. I don't think it's funny and would not have wanted that in my work email

my personal email isn't involved in my being paid to do a job--I still would have deleted it and banned the person who sent it to me; my work email is.

[samsingh]

35. yes but i don't think i should ask for thousands of dollars if i don't like that email

[SemperEadem]

55. then don't.

from the article:

Kraushaar's complaint was based on supervisors denying her request to work full time from home after a serious car accident in 2002, three former supervisors said. Two of them said Kraushaar also was denied previous requests to work from home before the car accident.

The complaint also cited as objectionable an email that a manager had circulated comparing computers to women and men, a former supervisor said. The complaint claimed that the email, based on humor widely circulated on the Internet, was sexually explicit, according to the supervisor, who did not have a copy of the email. The joke circulated online lists reasons men and women were like computers, including that men were like computers because "in order to get their attention, you have to turn them on." Women were like computers because "even your smallest mistakes are stored in long-term memory for later retrieval."

Kraushaar told the AP that she remembered the complaint focusing on supervisors denying her the opportunity to work from home after her car accident. She said other employees were allowed to work from home.

It would appear that the email was NOT the basis of the complaint; discrimination against her appears to be the basis of the complaint. Discrimination isn't as sexy as an offensive email when it comes to ginning people up.

[hughee99]

29. After having read that, I'm deeply offended.

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud here, but if this really is the email she filed a complaint about, it does not help her credibility at all.

[samsingh]

36. i agree with you

[No Elephants]

41. She did not accuse Cain of sending an offensive email.

Because she finds an email offensive and you don't does not add up to "She must be a liar."

[hughee99]

46. If she read this email, and filed a complaint because of it

it hurts her credibility. It doesn't matter whether Cain is involved or not, it provides some insight as to where she draws "the line". I NEVER said she must be a liar.

[Ship of Fools]

11. Nope. But the jackass circulating this should have known better.

You take a supervisory role, you are expected to be a grownup.

[CreekDog]

18. did you two page each other?

:rofl:

[No Elephants]

23. It's possible to be sexist about both genders simultaneously.

If an email made stereotypical, negative remarks about whites and Hispanics, would it be any less racist?

[customerserviceguy]

37. Yes, it might have been racist if it were about Hispanics and whites

But it deals with commonly accepted "humorous" stereotypes about both genders that are standard fare for broadcast TV.

It doesn't seem to me to entitle someone to receive money for having received it. It might be a cause for someone to either ban the sender, or complain about it to HR, but its not lawsuit material, IMHO.

[No Elephants]

42. I don't find any negative stereotypes humorous, not about genders, or races, or

religions, etc.

I don't know what being on tv has to do with it. First, I've heard plenty of offensive stuff on tv.

Second, if I don't like something to which I am subjected by tv, I have options that do not affect my ability to earn a living.

As far as it being lawsuit material, that was not your question and therefore not what I was addressing.

Moreover, we have a story put out by someone who wants to discredit the woman in order to try to salvage Cain. I would therefore not assume that it is either gospel or the whole story.

My personal experience has been that you never find only one inappropriate thing in a work environment. Rather, it goes on several times a day and almost every day.

Employers who are inappropriate and find you (maybe every female of a certain age) attractive seem to know no boundaries. And then, you just work all day, dreading the next time the guy (in my case) comes by your desk or office. Further, in a firm of several partners or "higher ups," if one of them is misbehaving and no one is stopping him or her, odds are that others among them are misbehaving as well.
So, you brace any time any one of them approaches. And that is a "hostile work environment."

The email may have been the only written evidence she had to present and not the whole basis of her claim.

[Le Taz Hot]

52. +1,000,000

I remember back in the day when I was young and cute and skinny. The comments that were put to me in a flippin' work environment were disgusting. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about when you say you had to "brace yourself" when so-and-so or the other so-and-so came up to your desk. Been there, done that. It's one of the many blessings of being 56 and overweight now. These creeps no longer bother me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. I've seen that. It was sent to me by my sister or my wife, can't remember which. n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

51. Yes.

It promotes false stereotypes and the e-mail itself has no business in the workplace. The guy apparently doesn't have enough WORK to do that he can loll around and shoot off idiot e-mails. If I were his supervisor I'd be finding a remedy for that.

[Le Taz Hot]

50. That e-mail has NO BUSINESS

in a work environment. I would have filed a complaint REAL FAST on that one and if that makes me a "ballbuster" (one of many pejoratives thrown at women who don't find this kind of shit funny) that's just too flippin' bad.

[Ian David]

10. She's a Republican. She keeps getting politically connected jobs from other Republicans.

And this is how Republican bosses treat their female employees.

[Chan790]

12. Typical tearing-down of the victim by the media in the light of a scandal.

None of those demands are unreasonable in light of that situation...or relevant in the case of her sexual harassment at the hands of Herman Cain.

[dkf]

13. Goodness she wanted a witness to her conversations with the manager.

"Kraushaar's complaint at the immigration service prompted managers to use caution when writing and speaking to Kraushaar while the complaint was being investigated, another former supervisor told the AP. Two supervisors said Kraushaar asked a colleague to act as a witness when she had conversations with one manager after she filed her complaint."

"To settle the complaint at the immigration service, Kraushaar initially demanded thousands of dollars in payment, a reinstatement of leave she used after the accident earlier in 2002, promotion on the federal pay scale and a one-year fellowship to Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, according to a former supervisor familiar with the complaint. The promotion itself would have increased her annual salary between $12,000 and $16,000, according to salary tables in 2002 from the U.S. Office of Personnel Management."

---

How is a fellowship to Harvard related to all this? Isn't that an odd request?

[CreekDog]

17. standard request (and permitted in most contracts) --it's when you think discipline could result

you have a witness.

and the point of the witness is that the supervisor can't say you said something you didn't --and stuff like that does happen.

[dkf]

22. That sounds like a poisonous employment situation.

[Chan790]

31. Kinda, but not really.

It's probably tied to the pay-scale promotion.

The civil service is rather rigid about qualifications to those sorts of things; it's not something that a supervisor can just sign off on and happens, you have to qualify for promotions either by experience, term of service, KSA(Knowledge, Skills and Abilities) or education....which is to say it's not really discretionary but rather qualitative and set on a standard metric.

If one reads it instead as "I want a promotion to the next paygrade and I want you to cover the cost of qualifying that promotion", it makes more sense.

[DallasNE]

21. She Originally Said She Didn't Want To Become

Another Anita Hill. Well, so far coming forward is making her another Anita Hill. For shame. In matters like this it always becomes blame the victim. Such is the nature of the sexist world we live in. She did drop the demands whereas she didnt in the Cain case and that should tell one something about the merits of the case against Cain, which she didn't file until shortly after Cain left the NRA, 6 months before his contract expired -- and that leaves the question, was Cain pushed out after the first claim was filed at the NRA. There are a ton of unanswered questions remaining.

[sinkingfeeling]

16. So? Is there a law or something saying one can't file complaints against one's employer?

[Historic NY]

20. The headline implies something other than the story..

[No Elephants]

24. I'm shocked, shocked, that an AP headline would be misleading. and in favor of a Rethug, too!

[noiretextatique]

28. it most certainly does

very misleading.

[yardwork]

25. Cain's treatment of these women is despicable, but as Democrats we have no dog in this fight.

Cain will do everything he can to smear his accusers, but there are too many of them. He's not going to get the Republican nomination. Along the way he's making the entire Republican Party look bad. People defending Cain are defending the increasingly indefensible.

No matter how this plays out it helps Democrats and helps President Obama's reelection.

[DURHAM D]

27. You are right.

However, I think if the story hit later during the primary or even the general (if Cain got the nomination) it would of been even better; more fun to watch.

Personally I think the Cain campaign leaked the info. They had to know it would come out and they were trying to get it over and done with and manage it on their schedule.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[totodeinhere]

34. You just made a racist comment. The race of the women that he is alleged to have assaulted is

irrelevant. You said he "assaulted white women." Assault on any women is criminal regardless of the race of either party involved. It's not that he assaulted "white women," it's that he assaulted any woman regardless of race.

[boppers]

47. You just made a sexist comment.

Assault on any person is criminal regardless of the sex, or gender, of either party involved.

I'm only half joking, FWIW...

[totodeinhere]

60. I poster I responded to was referring to women, therefore my response was about women.

And you might note that the mods deleted that message.

[totodeinhere]

33. This might actually help the GOP in a perverse way.

As long as we are concentrating on this sexual harassment scandal our attention might be diverted from the regressive policy proposals that the GOP field has put forward. Instead of debating their quest to end Medicare and Social Security, we will be debating sexual harassment. Meanwhile the GOP can sneak in their regressive polices while we are distracted.

[No Elephants]

44. Exactly. This is a distraction and consuming all the media oxygen.

[freshwest]

57. +1

[No Elephants]

43. I always thought Democrats had a dog in every fight involving civil rights and/or oppression,

especially in the workplace.

[Bucky]

49. Thank you

[Le Taz Hot]

53. As a woman I certainly DO have a

"dog in this fight." The always obliging (to the 1%) AP is doing what they've been ordered to do: Tear down the accuser. It's an old story and I'm amazed that so many here are defending the AP. (Actually, I'm not after the DU Dugger war wherein people suggested that she be forceably sterilized.)

[yardwork]

54. I said that Cain was despicable for what he did.

I don't mean that we don't have the obligation to fight against sexual harassment. We do. What I mean is that we don't need to let Republicans dictate the terms of this fight to us.

[BiggJawn]

38. So?

Herman Cain is the only asshole in the World of Commerce?

[kestrel91316]

39. I commend her for speaking out. Most women don't. She proved TWICE

that she is of stronger stuff than most of us.

[No Elephants]

45. So? If I were to have filed complaints, I could have filed them against several in the same firm.

[Bucky]

48. She should hire Anita Hill to coach her through this mine field

I'm sure more "revelations" will be forthcoming.

[Ash_F]

56. "How dare you speak up for yourself! Don't you know your place in the world?"

They want to make her out to be a "troublemaker". That's all.

[MarkCharles]

58. What's WRONG with these uppity women? Trying to be treated with dignity

and fairness?

These women should know their place and stay there!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm:


What's WRONG that these women would DARE do that?