Cardinal: No Communion for Pro-Abortion Politicians

[leftchick]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040423/pl_nm/campaign_kerry_vatican_dc


The cardinal spoke amid a debate in the United States over whether Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) should be denied communion, which Catholics believe is the body of Christ, because he supports abortion rights.

At a news conference presenting a Vatican document restating standing rules about the celebration of Mass, Cardinal Francis Arnize was reminded of the Kerry case and asked if a priest should refuse communion to a politician who is unambiguously pro-abortion.

"Yes," he answered. "If the person should not receive it, then it should not be given. Objectively, the answer is there."

Kerry supports abortion rights and has said he would nominate only Supreme Court justices who support his position. Anti-abortion groups in the United States, which is about 23 percent Catholic, say Kerry has what they have called a "perfect record" of voting for legislation that allows abortion

[truthspeaker]

1. OK. What about pro-capital punishment politicians?

The Catholic Church also opposes the death penalty.

[davidinalameda]

53. exactly

but the Cardinals are supporting Bushie so they won't do anything to hurt any of his buddies

all this is going to do is chase people from the church

[KittyWampus]

2. What About Pro-Death Penalty Politicians?

or pro-Iraq Invasion?

[cap]

3. arnize is in line to be considered for pope

after Jean Paul II.

I wonder if Arnize has been asked about pro-choice politicians in Europe. This will not go well with the laity. Watch the donations to the Church fall off.

[cap]

4. time to yank the church's tax exempt status...

eom

[Frodo]

40. Ever heard of the seperation of church and state?

We've had plenty of church leaders endorsing our candidates (or even trying to BE our candidates).

Some guy in Italy can say whatever the heck he want to.

Your plan would gurantee that we lose badly this November.

This guy (though a couple have) didn't even say "Catholics should not vote for the man" he just said "we define what is 'Catholic' and that ain't it". If you think government should have a role in that decision you don't belong in this party.

[QC]

43. If the Church wants to be a lobbying organization,

then it should be treated like any other lobbying organization.

It's funny how hard the Church is working to prove right those who said 40 years ago that if a Catholic were president then the hierarchy would try to run the government through him. It wasn't true then, but it's becoming true now.

[Frodo]

51. I'm sorry... did he SAY "Don't vote for him"???

No... he said "someone who publically behaves in a way that is contradicting our fundamental beliefs should not be treated in a way that says he is in communion with us". If Bush wants to win Jewish voted by claiming to be jewish do the rabbis have to agree he is jewish to avoid losing tax-exempt status?


An Italian Cardinal making a statement on church policy is NOT "lobbying".

[jmowreader]

52. Arnize can't be pope

IIRC, when the Catholics were last in the market for a pope, they said no cardinal from a superpower could be elected pope. Which means "no US popes" since they'd have needed bail money to get a Soviet pope, and now we're the only remaining superpower.

[cap]

5. also, time to out the pro-life politicians...

let's shine a spotlight on their bedrooms...

[kskiska]

6. So, I guess Rudy Giuliani

had better stay home. What hypocrisy.

[truthspeaker]

14. He's also an adulterer.

[k in IA]

7. The Church was against the Iraq war too - no communion for any

of the politicians who were for it.

[stopthegop]

8. I don't think that position is on the same level of doctrine

as the pro-life positions...

[k in IA]

9. I think you are right about the doctrine but the hypocrisy

of when and what doctrines they emphasize is ridiculous. They need to just back off.

[Christ was Socialist]

10. Christ would refuse it too

who support liberty. Also he beriended prostitutes, tax collectors
and the downtrodden in general.

And that whole dying for EVERYONE thing was a metaphor/sarcasm

[sniffa]

11. funny to see the vatican act

Like they have a say in poLitics. they're on their Last Legs here, and this is just a Last gasp of a dying tyrant, er pope.

[xchrom]

12. more stupidity

it's unbelievable to me the lengths that conservative christians of all stripes will go to have their way.
it's not rational or thought out just dogmatic, and superstitious.
they haven't learned from gallileo.

[Gman]

13. Then deny communion to pukes that support the death penalty

and the carnage in Iraq. The Pope told Bush about Iraq, "If you go to Iraq, you go without God."

[PATRICK]

15. Questions in a political year

Well, they can't all be as smart as the Founder in answering loaded political questions, but if they don't mind being used in a political contest why not ask a string of moral/political issue stands until the press, horrified at the Pandora's tabernacle they have released, run for cover.

The idiot cardinal or GOP stooge- small other choices left- should never get used for one single blurb on on single issue opportunely against the one single candidate who can save morality's bacon in Amerika. I guess beating up on Democrats and angering Catholics in general is what passes for courage among the pampered hierarchy of conservative administrators who talk big about social justice but do nothing except push the nation back into fundie feudalism.

If Paul could call Peter out I guess I can offer my opinion of who should be denied flatulent respect among our bishopry.

[femmecahors]

16. And deny communion to anyone who uses a condom . . .

practices birthcontrol,has sex before marriage, or is divorced . . . no wonder the Catholic Church is losing congregants

(I'm an ex-Catholic.)

[leftofthedial]

17. we need to eliminate fundamentalism

it is a plague of mental illness that threatens not only our species, but the entire planet.

[CO Liberal]

18. Hey, Cardinal!! Take Care of the Pedophile Priests First!!!

They're more of a danger than someone's opinion is.

[Hobarticus]

19. Cool! So I don't have to add to the collection plate anymore, either!

Will the last Catholic out, please shut off the lights?

[Merlin]

20. Communion Nazis: "No wafer for YOU!"

Too bad Steinfeld's not still in production.

[Frodo]

41. lol

eom

[jobycom]

21. Slow down folks. The headline is the problem.

A cardinal was asked whether a priest could refuse pro-choice politicians, and he answered that the priest could refuse. The answer was very generalized.

As usual, it's the media's "Shock and Awe" headline that creates the emphasis. The cardinal gave what a simple policy answer, the media (the PR Department for the Republican party) turned it into a pronouncement against Democrats.

[DoYouEverWonder]

46. So how many pedophile priests will refuse

to give communion to pro-choice politicians?

[Beware the Beast Man]

22. Not all priests will deny communion, either.

I posted this article in a thread in the lounge. It's from catholic.org:

European bishops say they'd hesitate to deny politicians Communion
By Cindy Wooden

April 22, 2004

OME (CNS) -- Several European bishops said they would be very hesitant to announce publicly that a Catholic politician could not receive the Eucharist because of a political stand, even in favor of legalized abortion.

In telephone interviews they cited a number of reasons, including a reluctance to "stigmatize" individual Catholics and a reluctance to use the Eucharist as a sanction for a political position.

The issue was heating up in the United States with regard to Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kerry, the probable Democratic candidate for president, who supports legal abortion.

European bishops and a pro-life activist contacted by Catholic News Service said that while some Catholic politicians on the continent have supported legislation opposed by the church they could not recall a politician being denied Communion.


HERE'S THE REST:

http://www.catholic.org/cathcom/national_story.php?id=7363

[denverbill]

23. How about "no communion for child-molesting priests"?

I guess Roman Catholic bishops have no problem with child molesting priests. After all, they protect and defend them and even let them keep their jobs.

But God forbid one of their parishioners disagree with one of the church's teachings.

[maddezmom]

24. No Communion for Paedophile Priests and their enablers

and those that covered their asses for years....wonder if anyone in the Vatican would be able to receive the "host".

[bleedingheart]

25. Do they still take Kerry's checks and cash them?

I bet they do....oh the hypocrisy.

[Mattforclark]

26. If they were consistent in denying communion

to anyone who disagrees with official church dogma on something, somwhere between 3 people and no one would get communion.

[bobthedrummer]

27. Ultimately, in our opinion, God loves free radicals.

[wabeewoman]

28. We have let 'them' define this

Its not that anyone is pro-abortion but I am old enough to remember my sister's friend dying from a back room abortion. The issue is that women WILL control their bodies and go to back room butchers if they have no legal option. Of course, that argument may not work anymore because too many 'religious people' want to force their beliefs on everyone else. What happened to judge not least ye be judged? A neighbor of mine who voted for bush said she may vote for Kerry. She doesn't like his abortion stand but she said what is the difference in killing unborn babies and all those people in Iraq.

[City Lights]

29. What about Bishops who kill someone during a hit and run

and then flee the scene of the crime?

Will Bishop O'Brien be refused communion?

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[atreides1]

31. What About

All Catholic soldiers currently fighting in Iraq, the Pope did come out against this war, and as long as the troops are going against the Pope, they can be considered to be going against the Church.

No flaming please, this is a good question.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

32. Progressive1: "No Communion for Child Molesting Priests!"

[zbdent]

33. Ask the cardinal if he's going to watch the game on Sunday

JPII said that's not the church's way . . .

[noonwitch]

34. People make way too much fuss over communion

My church doesn't even include it in services. They do it monthly on a Saturday evening, if anyone wants it. I refer to it as "symbolic cannibalism" whenever some christian disparages my christo-pagan belief system.

If the church denies Kerry communion, well, he and Theresa should just take their donations elsewhere. He could go Episopalian-their services are similar to catholic mass, and they're liberal. Or go UCC, UMC (except for the opposition to gay clergy and marriage), or Presbytarian USA. It's all the same God, it's just humans that have to differentiate between little picture issues.

[leftchick]

35. AP Version: Vatican Clamps Down on Abuses in Mass

I certainly like their headline better....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&ncid=716&e=4&u=/ap/20040423/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_liturgy_crackdown

[peterh]

36. How I long for a politician….

To repeat the words of Thomas Jefferson when dealing with organized mythology…..


"I have sworn upon the alter of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

[SoCalDem]

37. How about no communion for child-molesting priests?

I could get behind THAT idea :(

[davhill]

45. Anyone who advocates child molestation publicly

Is already barred from communion.

[LeftofU]

38. How about we tax the churches that involve themselves....

too deep into politics.

[damnraddem]

39. American Catholics should refuse the Vatican money.

And the church of any priest refusing a politician communion on the basis of the politician's votes should lose its tax-exempt status -- such a priest is trying to dictate American politics.

[FlemingsGhost]

42. Abort religious intolerance

Glad to see the Catholic Church has moved past the issue of clergy who are unambigously pro-pedophilia.

[Liberal Gramma]

44. Communion for politicians

I saw Fr. Andrew Greeley on Hardball a few days ago and his position is that any politian whose views do not coincide with those of the Church should (voluntarily) not take Communion. Then he went on to say that the Church also does not condone the death penalty, and is opposed the Iraq War. Looks like most Catholics in Congress will have to pass on the chalice.

[davhill]

47. There are a great many Pro-life Catholics

Who are working very hard to oppose war and capital punishment as well as abortion. Moral positions are not chosen arbitrarily, they are believed in.

[Liberal Gramma]

49. Of Course

I don't disagree; moral positions SHOULD be taken after much thought and soul searching. My point was just that abortion is not the only issue on the table--simply the one that gets the most press.

[Crowdance]

54. There are all kinds of moral positions, the antichoice one is not

The antichoice position is truly an immoral position because it works hard to legislation the repeal of women's human rights. It IS moral to support women's human rights. It is IMMORAL to oppose them. Working against war and capital punishment does not lesson the immorality of those working against women's human rights.

[nolabels]

48. Ordinary Non-Follower: Your helping me with my quest

In finding the correct path through the cactus patch one quickly learns to avoid the pricks. This is more about controlling women than anything about the kind of health or welfare concern they need to focus on. When I hear all these Anti-choice people railing against the rest of this systemic dismantling of the American health systems they might gain an audience.

At this moment all they are doing is taking away for ordinary people by supporting people who are destroying it for the profits of corporations. I might start listening start listening myself when they put their eyes on the greater needs of the whole and the suffering they might encounter

[Name removed]

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