Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier out

[jefferson_dem]

Source: ESPN

Both football coach Joe Paterno and president Graham Spanier are out at Penn State in the wake of a disturbing child sex abuse scandal involving former assistant coach.

Paterno said in a statement Wednesday that he would retire after the season, but the university's board of trustees met Wednesday night and decided Paterno would not be allowed to continue as coach. Assistant coach Tom Bradley has been named interim coach.

Spanier chose to resign Wednesday and will be replaced temporarily by provost Rodney Erickson.

Paterno has been besieged by criticism since Jerry Sandusky, his former defensive coordinator, was charged over the weekend with 40 criminal counts of molesting eight young boys between 1994 and 2009 through his charitable foundation for at-risk youths, The Second Mile. Sandusky is free on bail and has a Dec. 7 court hearing.

Athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz were charged Monday with failing to notify authorities after an eyewitness reported a 2002 assault. The two will seek to have the charges dismissed, their lawyers said. Curley requested to be placed on administrative leave so he could devote time to his defense, and Schultz will be going back into retirement, the school announced.


Read more: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7214380/joe-paterno-president-graham-spanier-penn-state

[Brickbat]

1. Good.

[SoDesuKa]

2. Good.

n/t

[entanglement]

3. Spanier's been running Penn State like a cozy fiefdom for 16 years. His good ol' boy trustee

pals must have acted under extreme external pressure; they would have swept this one under the rug given half a chance.

[fishwax]

4. Joe Paterno Fired, Tom Bradley Named Penn State Interim Coach, According To Report

Source: Live Press Conference

Penn St. Nittany Lions coach Joe Paterno will not coach another game, according to Jim Gardner of ABC's affiliate on the scene of Wednesday night's board of trustees meeting. Tom Bradley will take over as Penn State's interim coach, according to Gardner.

Read more: http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/9/2551010/joe-paterno-fired-tom-bradley-penn-state-int

---

Just announced at the Board of Trustees press conference that Joe Paterno is no longer the football coach, effective immediately.

[Brickbat]

5. Good.

[Faygo Kid]

6. Inevitable. Sad end, but sadder for the kids who were abused.

The only way it could end.

[Mojambo]

7. Anyone who thought there was any chance they were going to let him be on the sidelines Sat was nuts.

[bluestateguy]

8. I always liked Mayor Bradley

Shame he didn't make it to the governor's office in '82.

[Gin]

9. good...shame on them

[Ruby the Liberal]

10. Countdown for McQueary

That coward needs to go ASAP. Should have canned his ass before Paterno, IMO.

Good move on the part of the trustees. Lots of house cleaning to do there.

[Faygo Kid]

19. He's got to be out, the shameful coward.

Now.

[Faygo Kid]

20. Dupe

Busy site.

[blueclown]

11. Fuck "his legacy".

Joe Pa had some sense of entitlement to think he was just going to wait until the end of the year to be relieved of his duties and simply walk into the sunset.

[fishwax]

12. I think this will be his legacy n/t

[maddogesq]

61. Football coaches.

OK, so I have been waiting for somehting meaningful to write about lately. I knew all the good news that came out o yesterday--whether it be from Ohio or Mississippi--was going to happen. This one hit me like a ton of bricks.

I grew up in Michigan. I watched Bo and Duffy, Scotty bowman, Sparky, and so many others. I moved from here to Alabama for a brief stay when Bear was still the coach down there. These guys are glorified, yet they are human.

Let us not take this out on Joe. Let us take this out on the system that created this mess. Paterno's record is Paterno's record. That can never be erased.

As horrible as this situation at Penn St. is, there is something we all need to think about: What role does all the hype and TV revenue play in our weekly lives in the fall?

Nuff said.

[chervilant]

79. Really?!

Joe Paterno is complicit in the grotesquely inappropriate response to the eyewitness revelation about Sandusky's pedophilia. He could have been an advocate for the ten year old who was raped by Sandusky in 2002. Instead, Paterno--and every other adult who knew about Sandusky and did nothing to stop him--enabled Sandusky's continued predation on little boys.

[freshwest]

102. Yeah, there's something rotten inside a person to stand by and do nothing.

[Posteritatis]

117. Hype over an authority figure being an accessory to rape should play a substantial role. (nt)

[freshwest]

101. +1,000

[47of74]

13. That link didn't work

Here's the ESPN one;

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7214380/joe-paterno-president-graham-spanier-penn-state

Both football coach Joe Paterno and president Graham Spanier are out at Penn State in the wake of a disturbing child sex abuse scandal involving a former assistant coach.

Paterno said in a statement Wednesday he would retire after the season, but the university's board of trustees met Wednesday night and decided Paterno would not be allowed to continue as coach effective immediately. Assistant coach Tom Bradley has been named interim coach.

Spanier chose to resign Wednesday and will be replaced temporarily by provost Rodney Erickson.

Penn State should forfeit the rest of their games for this season and vacate any wins they already had.

[creeksneakers2]

37. Why punish the team and the fans?

[47of74]

44. To show football programs everywhere that laws have a purpose

And that they will be held to account for their actions.

In fact I would love to see Penn State invited to find another conference other than the Big Ten.

[MilesColtrane]

65. The people who dragged their feet and covered up crimes FOR YEARS were the ones who...

have punished the team and the fans.

[jberryhill]

72. To uphold standards of basic decency

[chervilant]

80. What?!?

So, you think Paterno's grotesquely inappropriate response to an eyewitness report of the RAPE OF A TEN YEAR OLD BOY should not impact the team and the 'fans'?!

Disgusting...

[creeksneakers2]

103. I don't agree with your characterization of what happened.

Its not clear what Joe knew and it is clear that Joe did report as required.

Whatever he did, I don't blame the team or the fans. Why do you? Or is it more of a collective punishment thing you want?

[Zoeisright]

106. No he did NOT report it as required. He is required to go to LAW ENFORCEMENT.

God, educate yourself before you spout such shit. Mandated reporters, which Paterno is, must go to law enforcement.

And grow up. A game is NEVER EVER more important than a child.

[creeksneakers2]

119. I don't believe Joe was covered by the law you're thinking of

The local papers say the law only applied to persons who children are in the care of. That didn't cover Joe. The grand jury didn't charge Joe, but did charge others. And his reporting the incident to his supervisors cover him anyway.

I think you should be able to cite and backup what you say. You certainly are out of line claiming I said the game was more important than the child. I never said anything like that.

[jakefrep]

53. Forfeit? What a stupid idea.

[UpInArms]

14. a small bit of justice for his inability to be responsible

I spit in his general direction

[tawadi]

114. It is not justice. It is called "covering one's legal ass." eom

[femrap]

15. who cares?

maybe there should be a sports forum for those enabling child molesters.

[devilgrrl]

17. Maybe the kids who were ass raped care.

You're indifference to sexual abuse has been duly noted Ms. femwrap. :eyes:

[femrap]

22. Read much????

That was my point. Everyone feels sorry for Paterno....he enabled a Child Molester.

Gonna apologize or spell my name wrong and give me another eye roll?

sick of it...i remember your crap and selective reading.

eta: buh bye

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

25. Nobody,

other than PSU fans and myopic alums "feel sorry" for Joe Paterno.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

28. Who's fo? Want to explain your barely literate ramblings?

[creeksneakers2]

39. I'm here in PA

and its just the opposite. Everybody, outside of some students on campus, is against Joe and they all say they don't care about what happens to the team.

[femrap]

41. Well, I'm glad to hear that.

But I still feel that football is waaaaaaaaaaay too glorified in this culture. Players get away with rape. But I guess rape isn't as bad as male child molestation in this culture....given the news coverage of this situation.

I guess that's part of my problem with all of this. So many times women have been raped by sports figures and there is nothing on the news, or the public 'sympathy' lies w/ the 'poor' football player. OJ comes to mind.

Bottom line....our culture really sucks....it didn't use to be like this. Athletes were held to a higher standard and a young woman could walk home without holding mace in her hand.

I miss morality and integrity. I miss shame and how it used to work at reining in heinous behavior.

[fishwax]

32. outside of Penn State message boards, I haven't seen people express sympathy for Paterno

And that certainly wasn't my intention when I posted the thread.

[femrap]

45. PLEASE SEE RESPONSE

# 38.....I'm sick of taking shit when you have so many others who deserve it.

eta: I'm just so sick of hearing about football thugs all day. Yesterday was such a BIG WIN FOR OHIO ON ISSUE 2 and now this. I just wish others would catch up with me and realize how brutal and misogynist football is...and I'm not in anyway surprised by this 'news' about Paterno and how he had to get the record of 409 wins...and wasn't the other coach he had to overcome, Black????

I detest our culture. This paradigm is close to its end.

[fishwax]

46. I didn't give you any shit, femrap

:shrug:

I clarified that I didn't start the thread out of sympathy.

So the poster in #38 thinks JoePa got a raw deal. I guess I have also seen one or two posters before defending him here. The overwhelming sentiment that I've seen (outside of the Penn State message boards, where it's about a 50/50 split) has been very critical of him.

I'm not saying that to give you shit. Just to point out that I don't think he has a lot of sympathizers. Especially here.

[femrap]

47. Sorry...I've had others

jumping on me. Didn't mean to take it out on you. But I would be happy to see college football as an obsolete relic of the past. I don't think it advances our evolution. Just a circus...plus I'm running low on bread which makes me 'testy.'

[fishwax]

48. all good

"plus I'm running low on bread which makes me 'testy.' "

I can sympathize with that :)

:hi:

[femrap]

52. Glad we're

OK....:fistbump:

[creeksneakers2]

38. Joe didn't enable a child molester

Joe turned Sandusky in to his superiors.

[RowdyRacer]

54. What "superiors"???

Joe Paterno didn't have "superiors" at PSU. This POS pedophile had an office and a parking spot at the athletic dept. until just recently. Paterno and others who knew about the abuse allowed him to use their facility, attend their practices, and probably exchanged pleasantries with him fairly often. They tolerated a vile monster in their midst...Penn State's football program should get the death penalty like SMU did.

[jberryhill]

74. Paterno LIED about what he'd been told

And he knew nothing was done.

So if you report your buddy the child rapist and nothing happens, you just shrug your shoulders?

I hope that if anything bad ever happens to my children that there are people around with more moral sense than you.

[creeksneakers2]

104. There's no evidence that Joe lied about anything.

[chervilant]

83. Gosh

I guess we're supposed to ignore that fact that Sandusky continued unabated for seven more years, all the while associated with Paterno?

[creeksneakers2]

105. No

I just question who is to blame.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

24. +1

:thumbsup:

[MarinCoUSA]

16. Repuklican, too.

[pettypace]

18. Biggest news story of the 2000's

period point blank.

November 9, 2011 will go down in the annals of history.

11/9/11

Remember where you were, folks.

[LonePirate]

21. Oh brother. What about an event that occurred ten years and two months prior?

[Orrex]

51. 11/10/11 will be remembered as the day that sarcasm was completely missed

[Ter]

73. Then people should learn to use the sarcasm tag

It's not hard, we have one.

[Orrex]

92. The sarcasm tag is a smiley of last resort

It should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. The post in question is pretty obviously sarcasm, so no warning flag is needed.

[Ter]

108. Three people replied thinking he was serious

I too thought he was serious, so that's four right there. Not obvious to us.

[Orrex]

109. That's not the poster's problem

[femrap]

36. You must be kidding....

football is waaaaaaaaaay too glorified in our culture. Who cares about football? It means nothing in the realm of this world. People starving. Wars everywhere. Please....football should mean NOTHING in our culture...it's a distraction and a circus.

This coach is a criminal. He is an accomplice to Child Molestation. Treat him like he should be treated...charge the POS and put him in jail like any other common criminal.

If the Defensive coach had raped women or girls, no one would be as upset as they are now...because that's what they're put on Earth for....isn't that what the Patriarchy says????

Remember the woman football player at CO who was a kicker and was raped by a fellow team mate? No, I didn't think you did. How many football/sport stars have gotten away with rape?

I'm sick of football and the great status it has in our culture. It's a bunch of thugs. Colleges give scholarships to dudes who have no brains but can play ball...how many students are left in debt because the football/sports students take all the money.

All so Paterno could have 409 wins and have the record....FUCKING SICK THAT A FOOTBALL COACH MEANS MORE THAN CHILDREN BEING SODOMIZED.

[caseymoz]

56. I can't believe you would go there, comparing rape of women to rape of children.

First, our criminal system sets the standards of conviction at guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is an easy thing to prove with minors, who can't legally consent. All sex is illegal. If there's evidence of sex and it isn't another minor, it means someone is going to jail.

However, in the case when there's sex between two adults, do you know how hard it can be to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? What you have with medical evidence many times is just proof that sex took place, which is, free and clear, legal.

So, he says it was consensual, she says it wasn't, and nobody else was there, or witness testimony is inconclusive. All a defense team has to do is raise doubt in the mind of one person out of twelve about her story, about her honesty, about her integrity, about her motive. Don't claim women have never made false charges of rape. Look at the Scottsboro Boys. And that's far from the only demonstrated example in history. If the defense raises this doubt in one person on that jury, the prosecution then has to spend months on the case again, only to have to meet the same challenge again. And meanwhile the guy is likely still out there. With this standard, it's no wonder the prosecution will only make an effort in a case that's as crystal clear as possible.

This explains more than any Patriarchy dictating behaviors to men.

This being said, juries can be ignorant, judging "reasonable doubt" by how the defendant was dressed that night, what her sexual history is, and such. Also, prosecutors can rightfully, or mistakenly, estimate them as so ignorant, and not make an effort on a case that isn't clear. Jury ignorance is probably what you can blame somewhat on something like a "patriarchy."

Second, because a mentality of a child does not comprehend sex, and is in their developmental years, you cannot compare the heinousness of what happens in child rape to what happens in adult-on-adult rape. Aside from the fact that both are sexual, they are hardly even in the same class.

In order to make convictions of adult/adult rape comparable with that of child rape, you would have to make the legal presumption that any evidence of adult sex is evidence of a crime. That will certainly kick the patriarchy in the nuts, along with everyone else.

[chervilant]

82. Misogyny

is such an ugly attribute...

[caseymoz]

93. Where? Point it out. What of any of my points were misogynistic?

You're going simply grunt out innuendos like a troll and take no intellectual responsibility for them?

Misogyny is a form of delusion, which means delusional is just as ugly and much more damaging. And if you're not going to support your innuendo you certainly have made yourself look delusional.

BTW, thinking you don't have to is hubris. Another delusion.

Or was it did the very fact that I would question her points, is that supposed to be misogynistic? The man should always agree with the women's POV about women, no matter how ill-informed and badly thought-out it is? Is less than 100 percent agreement now the misogyny line? That would make you paranoid. Another delusion.

Mark my words, that's going to marginalize and kill the women's movement far more thoroughly than any misogyny can.

[U4ikLefty]

97. clear misogyny

[caseymoz]

98. As clear as the nose on your troll face?

[U4ikLefty]

99. Troll? Been here for 9 years...fool. How about you?

and it's still misogyny

[caseymoz]

107. Oh, I've only been here for seven. But interjecting a label and leaving it is still trollism.

Misogyny: is your thinking that since I'm a male and I took the time to write all that about something that's "none of my business," that obviously I must be emotionally very agitated about it, and the only explanation for that is misogyny?

If so, that has a few weak links.

[chervilant]

122. Indeed,

and, ample grounds to relegate that pathetic wee mannie to my ignore list.

[caseymoz]

123. That must be a very long ignore list. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

100. I could be wrong

but I think the poster was agreeing with your response...

At least thats how I took it. Thanks for taking the time to write that up. The emotional outburst you were responding to needed no less.

[jakefrep]

62. You've never heard of 9/11/01?

[alp227]

66. the 2010s actually. MATH FAIL nt

[pezDispenser]

23. Good

My memory of Paterno will always be tainted now. He deserves it.

[meow2u3]

27. The bigger they are, the harder they fall

Let that be a lesson for not only NoPa, but anyone who puts power and appearances above the lives of children.

[kestrel91316]

29. Good riddance, you jackasses.

[frylock]

30. hope this haunts these fuckers for the remainder of their miserable lives

[rpannier]

31. This is the part of the story that I think sunk him

In his original statement on the case, after denying that McQueary informed him of "the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report," Paterno went on to concede that "it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky."

He lied in the beginning and it makes people wonder...

[OhioChick]

33. Good riddance sick asses n/t

[BamaFanLee]

42. They are now the butt of many jokes

If older women that like younger men are called cougars, then what are older men that like younger men? "A Nittany Lion"

[robbob]

110. Um, I don't quite get your joke

If that's what you were intending your post to be. These aren't "young men" we are talking about, they were children. And any older woman turned on by raping 10 and 12 year old boys would not be given the label "cougar".

[appleannie1]

34. Joe Paterno fired along with Penn State president Graham Spanier

Source: guardian

head football coach Joe Paterno in the wake of a child sex abuse scandal in which authorities said the men failed to do enough after an assistant coach was accused of molesting a boy in a campus shower.

"It is in the best interests of the university that a change in leadership (must be made) to deal with the difficult issues that we are facing," John P Surma, vice-chairman of the university's board of trustees, announced on Wednesday.

Spanier, one of the longest serving and highest-paid college presidents in the US, was under fire for his handling of allegations that a former assistant football coach sexually abused boys on campus.

Paterno had announced on Wednesday that this would be his last season in Happy Valley but is not being allowed to continue. The scandal claimed two other top administrators, who stepped down this week after being charged with perjury in the case.

Former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky was charged last week with molesting eight boys over a 15-year period. He has denied the charges.

A grand jury report said at least two of the assaults were witnessed on campus and one of those was reported to Spanier. But the university president did not tell authorities about the reported attack on a young boy, which a football team graduate assistant claimed to have seen in 2002. The graduate student's accusation was passed up the chain of command to Spanier but the president said the seriousness of the encounter was not conveyed to him.

The investigation is continuing. The state attorney general, Linda Kelly, has said Paterno is not a target of the inquiry into how the school handled the matter, but she refused to say the same for Spanier.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/10/joe-paterno-fired-penn-state?newsfeed=true

[Catherine Vincent]

35. I don't think I can sleep tonight

On CNN forum someone posted what the guy heard when he walked in on the coach and that child.

Heartbreaking. :( :cry:

[iandhr]

40. good

I am a huge sports fan but lets all stop portending about college football. Its about the money. At least in the pros they don't bother to hide it.

[dballance]

43. If You Report it to your Superiors and they do NOTHING...

it does not relieve you of responsibility. Just because you told your boss and he did nothing does not mean you are innocent. ALL educators have a responsibility to report child abuse. If you tell your boss and he does nothing then you are obligated to call the police. No questions, nothing grey about it. Black and white - very clear. You MUST call the police.

Child abuse must not be tolerated or covered up.

So Paterno is just as guilty as the guy who did the abuse. He never called the police even when he knew something was going on.

[jakefrep]

55. When it was taken to the POLICE, and they did NOTHING....

...exactly what was supposed to happen? Form a vigilante squad?

[harmonicon]

67. Well, that's just not true.

Look at who was charged - not this guy. The guys who actually were supposed to stop it have been charged with crimes. This guy did his job, and he's getting hosed because he's a public face. i hope he fucking takes them to court and wins, especially as these are only charges at this point (except on DU, where accusation = guilt).

[RobinA]

87. I'm in the Miniority

who actually will agree with you. I find this rather disturbing. I have no ties to PSU or Paterno, but I am a person who works in social services and deals every day with ambiguities of reporting, reporting laws, abuse allegations, real abuse, and the hierarchy in the work place. I've also left jobs for ethical reasons.

It must be very nice to sit in a black and white world and point fingers. Very comforting to know that everything is so simple. I wish I could live there to, but I don't, I'm stuck in the real world.

[harmonicon]

95. I'm in that world with you.

It's a lonely place, especially on the internet where nuance doesn't exist. It amazes me how upset people can become about news story that have no relationship to their lives when far worse things are probably going on in their own communities under their noses.

[caseymoz]

49. I hope there's more actions against him than this.

It should be only the start of Paterno's troubles. Unfortunately, as I understand, it's going to be very had to make charges stick with him because he performed his legal duty and told his superior, who then let it rest, for years.

Maybe it won't be that difficult after all. I hope not.

In fact, I agree, the entire Penn State team should forfeit all their remaining games and vacate the ones they've won so far. Just to show such football heads that there are larger issues to be considered.

[Sportsguy]

50. Why Does The Media Say The Boy and The Coach Were "Having Sex"?

And not "Sandusky was raping a 10-year old boy?" I can only speculate... Was the language too strong & they were worried about (further) negative consequences for the children, or was it because they was to protect the guilty/accused? Just something I've been wondering about.

[Glimmer of Hope]

84. That is weird because rape is certainly not sex.

[These Eyes]

91. You make an excellent point...

It was not sex, it was rape. I have no idea why they won't call it what it is. I lean more to the desire to protect the perp, rather than the victims. When I first heard about what was called the "Penn State sex scandal", I assumed it was about athletes and wild parties. It was a headline written by a blogger that used the term 'abuse' that caused me to read about what was happening. They should say it was sexual abuse -- anything less implies that the children consented.

[Blue_Tires]

57. UPDATE: Drunken students have started rioting

turned over a news truck...it's live on ESPN...Some unconfirmed reports of clashes with riot police...

I don't recognize this country anymore...

quick link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45186060

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/breaking/Riot-Police-Students-Crowd-Into-Streets-After-JoePa-Fired-133586518.html

crowd around the TV van has been maced and they have run off

[Blue_Tires]

60. crowd is being dispersed now...

do those fucking assclowns know how much worse they are making this situation for the school, town and classmates they supposedly to cherish?

these are some pretty goddamned warped values...and no one better use a flimsy 'too much beer' excuse...this goes way beyond the pale...

[Ter]

76. I hate the collage age youths

I really do.

[MadBadger]

58. The Board of Trustees Did NOT fire AD Tim Curley

Just accepting his request to be placed on administrative leave. No rational for not firing that SOB

[DallasNE]

59. This Started 12 Years Ago

And they are just now getting around to taking administrative action? How long was the Grand Jury findngs sat on? Oh, just long enough for Paterno to break the career wins record by one? Paterno's actions aided and abetted the rape of several young boys. And what was Paterno's reaction? He said "I'm no longer the Head Coach so I guess I'm going to have to get used to that". It's not about you Joe, it is about the young boys that were raped because you didn't have the guts to turn in your defensiv coordinator.

[SoapBox]

63. Buh bye....

disgusting.

[OVERPAID01]

64. Haven't followed the case.

I am fuzzy on the details (don't want to hear the graphic end). I am just confused about Joe's and the president's involvement. is there a link to the actual events that caused the head coach and president to be bounced out of the blue? Sandusky faces 40 charges, i am sure the number will increase as more and more innocent victims continue to be heard and believed at last. Just curious if this is as bad as my imagination is making this out to be, were the coach and president involved in knowingly covering up to protect the university?

[harmonicon]

68. No, they weren't involved in a coverup.

The coach reported the allegations (he didn't witness anything himself) through the appropriate channels. At that point, things broke down. That's why the coach and the president aren't charged with any crimes, whereas people who were legally obligated to go the police but didn't are being charged.

I'm amazed that this is a national news story, but I'm also amazed at the weird celebrity witch-hunt aspect to it. This is on a much smaller scale, but I'll give a little hypothetical:
someone comes to me and tells me that a coworker of mine is doing x illegal thing (hell, maybe even child abuse - I teach at a college, so it could happen), but I haven't witnessed it. I report that to our superior, and I think my responsibility is done. If my superior dose nothing, does that mean it was my responsibility to go to the police based on a third-party allegation? It seems silly to me, and it would seem completely wrong if I was then fired for that.

[IdaBriggs]

75. Its not a "co-worker" thing - its an "employee" thing.

Someone tells you an employee is screwing around with a 10 year old in your company shower. You mention it to your boss, thinking your job is now done. Then you keep ignoring the fact he's "playing" with 10 year olds in your company shower for the next *NINE* years....

This isn't an "I saw someone making copies" situation - this is people trusting you and your oganization with their kids. Paterno's Defensive Coordinator targeted "at risk" kids, Paterno got told something was going on, and was still on his Board for "at-risk" kids charity (thus lending his name to the predator's hunting pool).

[harmonicon]

78. Either he's charged with a crime or not.

At present, he's not. If he was, it would still only be a charge, and I think not worthy of losing his job over. I think we have a the rule of law for a reason, and I would rather not judge these people, as we have an entire branch of government set up for that.

[yellowcanine]

115. You set the bar way too low. Paterno had responsibilities to PSU above and

beyond strictly legal requirements. I work at a university, not PSU. But I suspect the requirements in these situations are similar. We are REQUIRED to notify the university legal office if we become aware of anything like this occurring on university property or at a university related event or program regardless of where it occurs. I find it hard to believe that a major university such as PSU does not have a similar requirement. So Paterno may have violated university policy only passing on the information to his superiors and not notifying legal at the same time. I suspect that is why he was fired. You can be sure that the trustees at PSU are not going to fire Joe Paterno without a cause that will stand up in court. They did this after consulting university lawyers, without a doubt.

[RobinA]

88. The Aspect

that's missed in all this rush to condemn celebrity Paterno is, where in all this was the the foundation that was charged with keeping these boys in the first place? I've heard not one word about them, and they were allegedly told in 1998 that there might be a problem with Sandusky. Very curious to me as to why the silence. I guess harpooning the big fish is just a helluva lot more fun. If anybody is a manadated reporter in all this, it's them.

If people are really interested in the welfare of children and not just in pissing on a big college sport that they don't approve of, THAT'S where the emphasis should be.

[enough]

85. There's another element, which is that Paterno was not just some random

faculty member, but the head of a massive organization with near-religious status, the mission of which organization is supposedly to foster and nurture a high order of functioning among young people. It simply isn't adequate to look at this as a responsibility that can be discharged by a legalistic minimum of response.

[harmonicon]

96. ... but the person who was actually responsible is being charged with a crime!

That is, the athletic director. This is about the university saving face, not about doing the right thing.

[yellowcanine]

111. Really? Then how do you explain Sandusky's retirement in 1999 at age 55?

In 1999 Sandusky was an accomplished Defensive Coordinator in line to become Head Coach when Joe Paterno retired. This was well known by everyone familiar with Penn State football. But in 1998 Sandusky admits to a mother that he fondled her son in a shower in a Penn State locker room. There is an investigation but the local DA chooses not to prosecute. And then Sandusky retires. Do you really think that Joe Paterno and other Penn State officials did not know about this? But yet - Sandusky is allowed virtually unlimited access to Penn State football facilities, travel to bowl games, etc. And it turns out he likely used that access to abuse more kids. Then in 2002 the alleged rape occurs, again in a Penn State locker room. And now you say Joe's only responsibility was to report it to his superiors. Bullshit. That may have been his only LEGAL responsibility, I don't know. But certainly MORALLY he should have done much more. I am a Penn State Alumnus, by the way (1979) so I am no stranger to Penn State or Joe Paterno. I attended most of the Penn State home football games as a student, so I know what it feels like to sit in Beaver Stadium overlooking the farm fields and watch Joe Paterno in his sports jacket and white socks on the sidelines. I know what a great coach he is and what his contributions to Penn State were, not just in football, but the library, etc. BUT Joe messed up here. Sorry, there is no getting around that. He was the head coach. This happened on his watch. He should have MADE SURE that his superiors reported this to authorities or made a phone call himself. At the least, he should have notified the Penn State legal office (Most universities actually require this in this situation so that in itself could have been a firing offense). And did he even once make any inquires as to the welfare of that kid in the locker room allegedly raped by Sandusky? There is also at least one former Penn State football player saying Sandusky was present at Penn State football activities (practices, etc) AFTER 2002 (Mike and Mike, this morning). How do you explain that if Joe did everything he could have done?

How can you be amazed this is a national news story? Joe Paterno gets fired for allegedly not doing enough to stop a pedophile (whether you agree with the decision or not - that IS what happened here) - how could this NOT be a national news story?

[harmonicon]

120. "everything he could have done" and what was legally/contractually required...

are very different things. From what I've heard, he did as he was supposed to. Please remember, these are only allegations. If this Sandusky fellow turns out to be innocent, what then of these other lives ruined? This is why we have a legal system.

For the second part: I'm pretty certain that I could have gone my entire life never once remembering the name Joe Paterno if it weren't for this story. I could give a shit about some college football coach. I get that you know who he is. I know who the director of my college symphony orchestra was, but I don't expect people all over the country to know it. I'm sure there are cases involving much worse alleged crimes that have stayed at the local level media-wise, and I don't see why this should be an exception.

[NewJeffCT]

69. At least one of the incidents was reported to Paterno

who did little about it.

[6000eliot]

71. Exactly.

He was part of the coverup, whether or not he is held responsible for it. I can't believe anyone would try to excuse him. And YES, if someone told me they had witnessed a child being raped, I would report it to the police. For Christ's sake, where are people's moral compasses?

[chervilant]

81. Indeed.

Every single adult associated with that school who knew Sandusky raped that child was mandated by law to do whatever was necessary to stop Sandusky and protect our children. Isn't it sad beyond words that our species has to CODIFY that mandate?!

[RamboLiberal]

77. Graphically Reported

But on Friday, March 1, 2002, in an episode that those close to McQueary say left him shocked and confused — and that would return to haunt his life and the fortunes of his university years later — he entered the locker room in Penn State’s Lasch Football Building at about 9:30 p.m. to put a new pair of shoes in his locker and pick up some recruiting tapes, according to the report of the grand jury that investigated the allegations involving Sandusky. Coaches commonly keep late hours but not so much in the off-season months, like March. Besides, the lights were not on in the offices, but toward the locker room. That is not usual. And a shower was running.

According to the report, McQueary heard “rhythmic, slapping sounds,” which he believed to be those of sexual activity. He walked to his locker, opened it and put his sneakers inside. He then turned his head and looked into the shower.

He has said under oath that he saw Sandusky raping what appeared to be a 10-year-old boy. He immediately left, met with his father and determined he would report the incident to Paterno, according to prosecutors. A person familiar with his account said McQueary did not spare the details when he met with Paterno. Nor did he when he met with the university’s athletic director and another senior administrator, the man in charge of Penn State’s campus police.

Weeks later, according to state prosecutors, those officials told McQueary that Sandusky had been barred from bringing children onto campus.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aspiring-coach-in-middle-of-colleges-scandal.html?hp

[Mendocino]

90. Okay, barred from bringing children

onto campus. But they still turned a blind eye to a predator. In essence we don't care what you do, just don't do it here.

[yellowcanine]

112. And if you can believe a former PSU football player on Mike & Mike this morning....

Sandusky was still allowed into practices, etc. after 2002. So it isn't as if Paterno was very serious about making PSU football off-limits to a known pedophile.

[Mendocino]

121. According to

Mauren Dowd (whom I don't care for, but that's another story) in an Op-Ed called "Personal Foul at Penn State" said even just last week Sandusky was working out in the team weight room. So with all this crashing down and he's still welcome there. Unbelievable!

[yellowcanine]

116. McQueary is not off the hook either in my book.

He sees a kid being raped and he quietly leaves and talks to his father?
I am sorry, but doesn't a person have an obligation to call 911 then and there?
And possibly do what they can to stop the rape?

Note that McQueary is STILL a coach at PSU and will be on the sidelines Saturday - unless the new head coach says otherwise.

[yellowcanine]

113. Well there certainly are indications that such a coverup may have occured.

In 2002 and possibly in 1999 when Sandusky retired at age 55 even though just about everyone who knew anything about PSU football thought he was the next head coach.

Some here are saying well, Paterno hasn't been charged with anything. YET. The investigation is ongoing. At the least, Paterno is going to need a good lawyer. He probably has one and this probably explains why he is pretty much keeping his mouth shut.

[jeanmarc]

70. What a dirty horrible nightmare

This is proof you don't need the Vatican to make for a hell on earth.

Penn State made this hell when they didn't take care of this degenerate.

Tough shit, Paterno. You might as well have been doing this yourself when you let this guy continue to hang out in the gym when obviously nothing was done.

[totodeinhere]

86. Good riddance. n/t

[RoccoR5955]

89. GOOD RIDDANCE TO BAD RUBBISH! n/t

[Odin2005]

94. Good riddance.

[ThoughtCriminal]

118. How to tell if Fox News has thrown Paterno under the bus

When they out a (D) next to his name.

[mvd]

124. It's too bad Paterno's tenure ended this way, but..

I think some of it is his fault for not retiring earlier, and for weak action on a very serious matter.

[chervilant]

125. OH, Noes!

Oh, the hand-wringing! Oh, the teeth-gnashing! Oh, the raucous cries of "if it had been me"!

Child abuse is rampant in our species, in large part because so many of us are in deep denial about both the actual occurrence of child abuse AND about how pervasive is this horrific crime. Think how much more denial occurs when the perpetrator is a trusted friend or family member.

For those of us who are SURVIVORS of childhood sexual abuse, the pain of these experiences remains with us for the duration of our tenure on this earth. Survivors must find their own measure of recovery, often without the support of family or friends. In fact, here are a few of the messages I got after my baby sister outed our abuser (and, I had no idea he had abused my two younger sisters):

"I cannot BELIEVE that Homer would do such a thing!" (name changed to protect his adult children)

"Did you like it?"

"Why did you let him do that to you?"

"He says you seduced him."

"I never let Homer get to me!" (this from my other baby sister, also a survivor, because our abuser never raped her vaginally)

To this day, many members of our family--and some of our family's friends--blame me, my two sisters, and virtually ANYONE else other than the abuser.

For those of you who continue to pontificate about "who's to blame," or what you might have done if you had witnessed the rape of a ten-year-old boy: you can channel all of your anger and disgust to a positive end: be an advocate for ALL children. Learn to recognize the signs of abuse. Be a Big Brother or a Big Sister. Most importantly, ALWAYS BELIEVE a child who tells you that Uncle Homer "makes me do yucky stuff."