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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 04:55 PM
Original message
Michigan Senate approves school Pledge of Allegiance bill
Source: AP

Last Updated: November 10. 2011 3:42PM
Michigan Senate approves school Pledge of Allegiance bill
Associated Press


Lansing — The Michigan Senate has approved legislation to require the Pledge of Allegiance to be recited each day at public schools.

The bill approved by a 31-5 vote Thursday would require schools to conduct a pledge recital, but says that a student "shall not be compelled" to participate against the student's objections.

Lawmakers voting no say that clause doesn't go far enough and that the pledge recital should be encouraged but not mandatory.

The Senate also unanimously approved a separate measure requiring American and state of Michigan flags in state buildings to be made in the United States.




Read more: http://detnews.com/article/20111110/POLITICS02/111100502/Michigan-Senate-approves-school-Pledge-of-Allegiance-bill#ixzz1dLE3ToB6



Can't you just see all the new jobs being created by this clown show.

Just like the "In God We Trust" thingy last week in DC.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I suppose reading the bible will be next, and after that pledge of allegiance to the
republican party.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Norquist will be in ever classroom having the students
signing pledges not to raise taxes
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Yep, I'm sure that's on the agenda too!!! n/t
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. "The Doctrine of Continual Reaffirmation" and "The Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade". . .
made famous in the chapter "Captain Black" in Joseph Heller's Catch-22.


Almost overnight the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was in full flower, and Captain Black was enraptured to discover himself spearheading it. He had really hit on something. All the enlisted men and officers on combat duty had to sign a loyalty oath to get their map cases from the intelligence tent, a second loyalty oath to receive their flak suits and parachutes from the parachute tent, a third loyalty oath for Lieutenant Balkington, the motor vehicle officer, to be allowed to ride from the squadron to the airfield in one of the trucks. Every time they turned around there was another loyalty oath to be signed. They signed a loyalty oath to get their pay from the finance officer, to obtain their PX supplies, to have their hair cut by the Italian barbers. To Captain Black, every officer who supported his Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was a competitor, and he planned and plotted twenty-four hours a day to keep one step ahead. He would stand second to none in his devotion to country. When other officers had followed his urging and introduced loyalty oaths of their own, he went them one better by making every son of a bitch who came to his intelligence tent sign two loyalty oaths, then three, then four; then he introduced the pledge of allegiance, and after that “The Star-Spangled Banner,” one chorus, two choruses, three choruses, four choruses. Each time Captain Black forged ahead of his competitors, he swung upon them scornfully for their failure to follow his example. Each time they followed his example, he retreated with concern and racked his brain for some new stratagem that would enable him to turn upon them scornfully again.

Without realizing how it had come about, the combat men in the squadron discovered themselves dominated by the administrators appointed to serve them. They were bullied, insulted, harassed and shoved about all day long by one after the other. When they voiced objection, Captain Black replied that people who were loyal would not mind signing all the loyalty oaths they had to. To anyone who questioned the effectiveness of the loyalty oaths, he replied that people who really did owe allegiance to their country would be proud to pledge it as often as he forced them to. And to anyone who questioned the morality, he replied that “The Star-Spangled Banner” was the greatest piece of music ever composed. The more loyalty oaths a person signed, the more loyal he was; to Captain Black it was as simple as that, and he had Corporal Kolodny sign hundreds with his name each day so that he could always prove he was more loyal than anyone else.
….

To Captain Piltchard and Captain Wren, the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was a glorious pain in the ass, since it complicated their task of organizing the crews for each combat mission. Men were tied up all over the squadron signing, pledging and singing, and the missions took hours longer to get under way. Effective emergency action became impossible, but Captain Piltchard and Captain Wren were both too timid to raise any outcry against Captain Black, who scrupulously enforced each day the doctrine of “Continual Reaffirmation” that he had originated, a doctrine designed to trap all those men who had become disloyal since the last time they had signed a loyalty oath the day before. It was Captain Black who came with advice to Captain Piltchard and Captain Wren as they pitched about in their bewildering predicament. He came with a delegation and advised them bluntly to make each man sign a loyalty oath before allowing him to fly on a combat mission.

“Of course, it’s up to you,” Captain Black pointed out. “Nobody’s trying to pressure you. But everyone else is making them sign loyalty oaths, and it’s going to look mighty funny to the F.B.I. if you two are the only ones who don’t care enough about your country to make them sign loyalty oaths, too. If you want to get a bad reputation, that’s nobody’s business but your own. All we’re trying to do is help.”

….

“National defense is everybody’s job,” Captain Black replied to Milo’s objection. “And this whole program is voluntary, Milo – don’t forget that. The men don’t have to sign Piltchard and Wren’s loyalty oath if they don’t want to. But we need you to starve them to death if they don’t. It’s just like Catch-22. Don’t you get it? You’re not against Catch-22, are you?”

Doc Daneeka was adamant.

“What makes you so sure Major Major is a Communist?”

“You never heard him denying it until we began accusing him, did you? And you don’t see him signing any of our loyalty oaths.”

“You aren’t letting him sign any.”

“Of course not,” Captain Black explained. “That would defeat the whole purpose of our crusade. Look, you don’t have to play ball with us if you don’t want to. But what’s the point of the rest of us working so hard if you’re going to give Major Major medical attention the minute Milo begins starving him to death? I just wonder what they’re going to think up at Group about the man who’s undermining our whole security program. They’ll probably transfer you to the Pacific.”

Doc Daneeka surrendered swiftly. “I’ll go tell Gus and Wes to do whatever you want them to.”
…..

Captain Black had boundless faith in the wisdom, power and justice of Major —— de Coverley, even though he had never spoken to him before and still found himself without the courage to do so. He deputized Milo to speak to Major —— de Coverley for him and stormed out impatiently as he waited for the tall executive officer to return. Along with everyone else in the squadron, he lived in profound awe and reverence of the majestic, white-haired major with the craggy face and Jehovan bearing, who came back from Rome finally with an inuured eye inside a new celluloid eye patch and smashed his whole Glorious Crusade to bits with a single stroke.

Milo carefully said nothing when Major —— de Coverley stepped into the mess hall with his fierce and austere dignity the day he returned and found his way blocked by a wall of officers waiting in line to sign loyalty oaths. At the far end of the food counter, a group of men who had arrived earlier were pledging allegiance to the flag, with trays of food balanced in one hand, in order to be allowed to take seats at the table. Already at the tables, a group that had arrived still earlier was singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” in order that they might use the salt and pepper and ketchup there. The hubub began to subside slowly as Major —— de Coverley paused in the doorway with a frown of puzzled disapproval, as though viewing something bizarre. He started forward in a straight line, and the wall of officers before him parted like the Red Sea. Glancing neither left nor right, he strode indomitably up to the steam counter and, in a clear, full-bodied voice that was gruff with age and resonant with ancient eminence and authority, said:

“Gimme eat.”

Instead of eat, Corporal Snark gave Major —— de Coverley a loyalty oath to sign. Major —— de Coverley swept it away with mighty displeasure the moment he recognized what it was, his good eye flaring up blindingly with fiery disdain and his enormous old corrugated face darkening in mountainous wrath.

“Gimme eat, I said,” he ordered loudly in harsh tones that rumbled ominously through the silent tent like claps of distant thunder.

Corporal Snark turned pale and began to tremble. He glanced toward Milo pleadingly for guidance. For several terrible seconds there was not a sound. Then Milo nodded.

“Give him eat,” he said.

Corporal Snark began giving Major —— de Coverley eat. Major —— de Coverley turned from the counter with his tray full and came to a stop. His eyes fell on the groups of other officers gazing at him in mute appeal, and, with righteous belligerence, he roared:

“Give everybody eat!”

“Give everybody eat!” Milo echoed with joyful relief, and the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade came to an end.
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. We had to say the pledge in grade school.
I thought that was universal, but maybe it was just because these were schools for American servicemen's kids overseas. I always felt ridiculous standing there with my hand over my heart talking to a flag. In retrospect, I wish someone had explained to us the meaning behind the words, that they described a concept and an ideal rather than rote recital in front of an inanimate piece of cloth. Just being forced to *say* it, for no apparent reason, meant nothing.
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frebrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
5.  We recited the pledge in school, too.....
but at that time there were no deities included in it.
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jdadd Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. They added the deities, when I was in second grade.....
I would sometimes change the words around a little bit. "and to the republican for which it stands"....I didn't know what a republic was, but I was aware of Republicans, coming from a Democratic, Union Household....
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24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Deities, as in plural? I recall only one in the pledge. n/t
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jdadd Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Ha.....Got me there!!!
:dunce:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #26
43. Yes, but God is, and always has been, three indivisible deities, aka the Holy Trinity.,
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Glad to see the maniac pukes have taken care of bankrupt cities, unemployment, etc. Whew! Who knew?
Now they can get down to the 'fun' part of governance.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Here's some more info on that "Made in America American flag" bill...
Some of the comments from readers are really something!


Senate calls for all U.S. flags flying in front of government buildings to be American made
Published: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 1:46 PM Updated: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 2:14 PM
By Dave Murray | The Grand Rapids Press

LANSING – Every American and Michigan flag flying in front of a state building would be made in the United States under a bill that sailed through the state Senate on Thursday.

State Sen. Roger Kahn, R-Saginaw, said Michigan has no policy mandating that government-owned flags be made in the U.S.A., though numerous other states either have such rules or are considering them.

“This bill is about us, it's about who we are and who we support as a people,” Kahn said on the Senate floor before the vote. “Do you want to see a foreign-made flag in front of our buildings on Flag Day, Memorial Day or on Veteran's Day? Do you want to hand the widow of a soldier a flag made somewhere else? Our national symbol shouldn't have a tag reading 'Made in China' or “Made in Mexico.' It should say 'Made in the U.S.A.'”

The bill would have a minimal impact, according to the Senate Fiscal Agency. “The Legislative Council, Supreme Court, Department of Technology, Management, and Budget, Department of Military Affairs, Department of Natural Resources, Department of State Police, and Department of Transportation all report that the flags that they purchase are manufactured in the United States.”

more...
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/11/senate_calls_for_all_us_flags.html
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. Now we are backed to the 1960's
I think all these were required when I was in grade school in Detroit, and look where that got us!
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. We had to do the pledge of allegiance plus read several passages from the
bible everyday at the beginning of class. Made no difference what religion you were, what you thought, it was mandatory. Several kids balked at it, they got dressed-down by the teacher and sent to the principals office for disciplinary action. This was a plain old public school.

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #22
40. Wrong then, wronger now, that people should know better.
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
32. I remember having to do the pledge & the Lord's Prayer back in the late
50s, early 60s. I went to school just outside Detroit.

Kids said nasty things to us Catholic kids because our version of the Lord's prayer was different than how they said it. Kids can be very cruel.

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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. So how does this legislation create jobs?
Oh right, it doesn't! Just another patriotic BS bill that repeats something we already know, or find to be rather uneccessary.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. This one term governor we have is really putting us back in the stone age.
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dballance Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow, another legislature focused on jobs and unemployment
I know reciting the pledge is really going to put people back to work. Not to mention the Constitution forbids any oaths, but hey it sounds good.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. Jobs for Lawyers!
If anyone can afford to hire one
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. That's why God made the American Civil Liberties Union, and also why we should all donate whatever
we can to it.

http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FJ_donationhome

Government always seems to have money for lawyers.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. how about we make PRIVATE businesses recite the pledge?
wedge issue!

wedge issue!

must...support...flag...
must...oppose...regulation...
does...not...compute...
...

:evilgrin:
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d_r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. I don't have a problem with it
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. It violates people's religious freedoms
Jehovah's Witnesses don't recite the pledge
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. I just say, "one nation, under Canada..."
Thank you, Robin Williams.

Joking aside, it's absurd legislation. I agree with you.
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24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. And as stated in the article, they still don't have to. So how does
not requiring them to recite it violate their freedom?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #30
44. For the same reason that allowing Madalyn Murray's son to remain silent during prayer,
even to leave the room, if he chose, violated the first amendment.

If you read those early school prayer cases, the same reasoning would apply to the pledge of allegiance, especially if you read the loyalty oath cases as well.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #17
39. Also violates speech rights.
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d_r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. But the law doesn't say that every child has to do it
Just that public schools have to do it. The whole thing is kind of a civics lesson and gets the kids to talking and thinking.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Read Engel v. Vitale
US Supreme Court decision on prayer in the public school
I think it was Hugo Black in his opinion found reciting voluntary daily prayer as coercive because it would be difficult for children to opt out because of social pressure from their peers and some teachers.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
38. and?
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. Automatic recitation- worthless. Understanding the meaning of the words- priceless.
What a joke. The so-called adults that spent more than two minutes on that bill are total dingbats.

But then you all have to go to Youtube and view the Pentecostal "prayer meetings" with snakes, to get a real feel for the desparate nature of the American electorate.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
41. Not having government force you to say whatever it wants, also priceless.
Well, bought with much blood and treasure, anyway.
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adam in oregon Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. what a joke
Forcing someone to say a pledge does not make them believe it. I would love for someone to go to these grade schools and ask the students what the pledge means. I am sure the answers would be quite comical. As a child I usually made up words for my pledge. How can this law even be enforced? What a waste of time.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. forced patriotism is SO 2002....
:eyes:
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. And the nation is saved!
In the nick of time, no less.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. They'll lose in court and have to pay attorney's fees
Michigan will be out more money

The law violates the 1st Amendment -- Freedom of Religion for Jehovah's Witnesses
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. Requiring it be recited, but not mandatory for students to recite.
Seems kinda silly. And leaves open the possibility of bullying a student (by the spawn of a Limbaugh/Hannity listener) for not being "compelled" to participate. Jeez, Snyder is a jackass. Sure glad we hired this "businessman" to fix things around here.
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iemitsu Donating Member (524 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. actually the bill would require teachers to lead the students in a
voluntary pledge each day as the law requires teachers to in washington state.
the law is more about identifying suspect teachers than anything else but also identifies non-conformist students.
no good comes from laws such as this.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. "Suspect" teachers? What, like, commies?
Damn furriners? Another right-wing attempt to fuel hatred. That's what we're paying these assholes for? Sheeesh!
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. I'd like them to start each Senate meeting with the immortal words of President Nixon:
"I am not a crook!"
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. From President Theodore Roosevelt
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer "Present" or "Not guilty."
-Theodore Roosevelt.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
45. LOL!
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bongbong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. Job Creation
Lots of new gov't jobs for Loyalty Enforcement Officers.

Next will be TSA agents inspecting every child who enters the school bldg each morning.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
27. i did that back in the 50`s....
.i never really said the pledge i mumbled
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Philosopher King Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
31. Small ideas are the products of small minds.
They just don't make 'em like they used to.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,...
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. Appealing to a bunch of thin skinned whiners who wilt at ANY light criticism
of their patriBOTic ways. Those fools listen to trash talk radio all day and scream at ANYONE who dares not consider the red, white, and blue sacred while at the same time mocking the Muslims who have the same attitude whenever someone draws Muhammad. Ugh. I moved from Michigan to California when I was 5, and I'm fortunate to have grown up in a more progressive, enlightened place.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
37. Yay, now all the kids who refuse to say the pledge will have "kick me" signs on their backs!
:grr:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
46. Lee Atwater lives! Didn't Congress recently reaffirm "In God We Trust" as the national motto?
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 10:47 AM by No Elephants
This was supposedly a response to Obama's saying our national motto was E Pluribus Unum.

E Pluribus Unum, once considered the motto, was, I suppose, too accurate and too universal for Congress. As an example of C Street's hold on Congress and Ike, that cult got them to adopt "In God We Trust" as the official motto of the U.S. in 1956, around the same time as "under God" got inserted into the pledge of allegiance.

The rationale was supposedly that this distinguished us from the atheistic adherents to the Red Menace.

Separation of Church and State be damned! After all, we were engaged in a Cold War--yet another of the U.S.'s many fake wars--Cold War, War on Drugs, War on Poverty, War on Terror.

And, as we all know, all's fair in love and war, even a fake war.

Anyway, the modern reason for this kind of foolishness is to attempt to show Republicans as the party of all good things, like patriotism, religion, family values, etc., whereas the dirty Democrats are an unpatriotic atheistic, valueless lot who cheat on their spouses and abandon their children--unless, of course, those children enable them to collect AFDC.

IOW, Lee Atwater lives.


Meanwhile, the damned Democrats usually whine about unconstitutional shit like this. Thank heaven! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty_oath

which again raises the question, why do the people who seemed obsessed with empty jingoism hate the Constitution of the United States? Defending and protecting that blessed document is real patriotism, whether or not you are wearing a flag pin when you do so.

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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
49. I tire of window dressing....
I pledge is meaningless unless it is backed up. (and yes, I served)Otherwise it is useless words chanted to a colorful piece of fabric.....

Actions talk BS walks.
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