Exclusive - Greece turns to Iranian oil

[TomClash]

Source: Reuters

By Dmitry Zhdannikov and Ikuko Kurahone
LONDON | Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:22pm GMT

(Reuters) - Greece is relying on Iran for most of its oil as traders pull the plug on supplies and banks refuse to provide financing for fear that Athens will default on its debt.

Traders said Greece has turned to Iran as the supplier of last resort despite rising pressure from Washington and Brussels to stifle trade as part of a campaign against Tehran's nuclear programme.

The near paralysis of oil dealings with Greece, which has four refineries, shows how trade in Europe could stall due to a breakdown in trust caused by the euro zone debt crisis, which is threatening to spread to further countries.

"Companies like us cannot deal with them. There is too much risk. Maybe independent traders are more geared up for that," said a trader with a major international oil company.


Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/11/11/uk-greece-iran-oil-idUKTRE7AA31120111111

[Bosonic]

1. Don't cross the crises, whatever you do

[JDPriestly]

2. I realize this is hard to understand if you've only lived in the US, but

in international politics, geography is everything.

Who sits next to whom in the classroom can decide a lot at least for the teacher if not for the students.

Greece/Iran right south of what used to be Yugoslavia. Slightly to the north is Austria and then you go right up and turn left and you are in Germany. It's that easy.

So, Greece may not need much help from the EU.

But this would be a big headache for Obama and Merkel.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Greece and Iran are far from next to each other

so 'Greece/Iran' doesn't make any sense. Iran is the other side of Turkey from Greece, or, in current oil delivery terms, the other side of the Persian Gulf, Arabian Sea, Gulf of Aden, Red Sea, Suez Canal and eastern Mediterranean Sea.

[JDPriestly]

20. Greece is not next to Iran, but it is a pathway for Iran to extend its

relationships into Europe. I am quite aware that Iran is way on the other side of Turkey, that it is to the South of Turkey (among other countries) and to the East of Iraq. I also know where the Persian Gulf is an how well monitored it is by our Navy. Iran, however, will be able to get oil to Greece, and will have an entry to a diplomatically and financially vulnerable part of Southern Europe.

I have traveled and lived along the pathway from Greece up into Germany.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. I'm really not sure what you're saying, then

The article is about how traders with oil from elsewhere are now finding finance arrangements with Greece very difficult, because banks fear losing money in a default. Iran is still willing to take the risk. Iran can already sell oil to Europe (25% of its oil went there in 2009), but you seem to imply that the presence of Iranian oil in Greece will have an effect on Germany. I really can't imagine what you're getting at.

[JDPriestly]

31. The Greek people will be politically indebted in particular to Iran.

That is an opportunity for the Iranians to cultivate a very good relationship with Greece. As we have seen, a relationship of debt makes the debtor into a sort of indentured servant.

If the only place Greek can get the credit to buy oil is Greece, you could even call that a special relationship.

That is not what the US government wants.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. The Greek people won't pay a blind bit of notice to this, I think

They don't care what ship the oil comes in on; just the price they pay ta the pump. Greek oil traders may develop a better relationship with Iranians. And all that it will take for Greece to buy oil elsewhere is enough confidence or credit insurance, one of which will turn up soon.

You don't mention Germany in the post you've just made. Does that mean you agree this really doesn't have anything to do with Germany?

[JDPriestly]

35. Once you move up to Austria, you just move across to Germany.

That was the point. And it is a question of whom the people of a country perceive as their friends. I seriously doubt that ordinary Greek people feel that the German or US governments are their friends at this point.

My fear is that Greece will see Iran as a good friend now that Iran of all countries has agreed as I understand it, to give them credit so that they can buy oil.

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. I'm sorry - do you envisage Iranian tanks being smuggled aboard their tankers?

Or Iranian missiles in Greek oil depots? What has the geographical order of countries in Europe got to do with anything?

"I seriously doubt that ordinary Greek people feel that the German or US governments are their friends at this point. "

Oh, I doubt that too. But that's not because of who's selling oil to them. After all, it's not Germany or the USA that's going to stop selling oil to them. It's Russia, mainly. It's because of the austerity measures. Even if the approval rating of Iran did go up in Greece, to think that this would have some meaning because Germany is within 600 miles of Greece is ludicrous.

[JDPriestly]

39. No. I'm talking about a country being very, very popular among the

people in another country.

When I lived in parts of Germany and Austria, people would walk up to me and introduce themselves to me and thank me for the part the US paid in WWII. It's that kind of thing.

I don't think the US wants people in Europe to feel all that friendly toward Iran.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. That seems a complete non sequitur

Austrians and Germans thank Americans for WW2 (and it was a good job, by the way ...)
... so ...
Greece being a few hundred miles from Germany means ... ???

[JDPriestly]

44. That Iran is now working to weaken the stench of its reputation in the Western world.

[Eddie Haskell]

3. The economic repression of democracy's birthplace.

How ironic. This is how capitalists enforce fa$cism.

[DeSwiss]

21. I'm glad that someone else has also made that connection.

- What is even more ironic is that when it is all said and done, none of this will "save" the EU......














http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hklqkwyISuk">''All tyranny needs to gain a foothold, is for people of good conscience to remain silent.'' ~ Thomas Jefferson.

[Harmony Blue]

24. What ever happened to letting the "free markets" working its magic

on its own?

[MADem]

4. Greece has refineries. Iran doesn't (most people do not realize that

Iran is woefully under capacity when it comes to their own ability to produce GASOLINE for their own production--they have to "send it out" as it were. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a "gasoline kickback" factored into some of these independent trader deals.

You've got two broke countries, one has a product, the other has the refinery to make said product useful, and they're both in an economic shithole. Whatchagonnado? I mean, really--one hand washes the other, both wash the face, already!

It's a match made in Desperation Heaven. I am just a bit amused that anyone is actually surprised by this turn of events.

"They are really making no secret when you speak to them and say they are surviving on Iranian stuff because others will simply not sell to them in the current environment," one trader in the Mediterranean said....Shipping data obtained by Reuters showed four cargoes taking crude from the Middle East outlet of Sidi Kerir on the Egyptian Mediterranean to Greece in September. Three sailed in October. Traders said all carried Iranian Heavy crude and more was coming in November.

"Iran is the only one who might be working on an "open credit" basis right now, given its own difficulty in selling crude," one trader said.

Thanks for posting this--good article, easy to miss, though.

[TomClash]

7. Assaluyeh is a huge gasoline refinery

Iran is now self-sufficient in gasoline, despite (or maybe because of) sanctions.

[MADem]

10. So they claim. I'd look askance if I were you.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/09/iran-nuclear-mood-idUSL6E7M94HT20111109

Iran also says it no longer needs to import the 40 percent of its gasoline production it used to buy to make up for a lack of refinery capacity, saying an emergency plan to produce the fuel in petrochemicals plants has made it self-sufficient.

Foreign analysts say that is probably an exaggeration and Iranians have complained about an increase in air pollution which may be due to a drop in fuel quality.

[TomClash]

15. "Foreign Analysts" and "Iranians have complained"

Speaking of looking askance . . . .

FGE and Opec say otherwise. It stands to reason that with Schlumberger still in country they can get product from wellhead to refinery.

But even if you're right, the article puts a bit of a damper on the grand attack plans. Or does it? That's what makes the article interesting.

[MADem]

25. I think grand attack plans are in some people's heads.

Without a handy conspiracy or an enemy, they're just not happy.

You think Afghanistan is a tough nut to crack? Iranian nationalism is even more formidable--it can take your breath away--they do "the enemy of my enemy" better than anyone else. They'll even tolerate a shitty leader if they're feeling beseiged. No one wants to go up against that if they can avoid it. I think there will be no March on Teheran, though plenty of people who claim to be interested in plowshares seem inordinately interested in just such a possibility, with something akin to 'gleeful dread.'

If anyone would like to foment fictional suggestions of attack, perhaps to encourage continued sacrifice on the part of an already weary population, the ones who would benefit most would be those third rate assholes mismanaging that country and oppressing the people there.

The OPEC chair is (finally) an Iranian (and a rather creepy one, as well)--first time since Khomeini ruined the nation, so take what comes out of there for the duration of his term with an understanding that "editing happens." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/03/iranian-opec-president-revolutionary-guards

And then, there's this: http://arabnews.com/economy/article531921.ece
Iran October gasoline imports up 21%


Getting rid of the gas subsidy, hoarding, rationing, pushing up a still-anemic refining capacity, and exhorting can only go so far. They're back on the import track. It gets cold in winter. People don't want to walk.

The thing about Iran, I've noticed, is that their despotic little leaders rarely tell the truth. It's to the point where they may as well just wear little Pinocchio suits and noses to 'go with.' They bullshit and lie, but they don't do it very convincingly. Fool me once is one thing, but when you get to the hundredth lie or more, it's time to just roll eyes and go for those grains of salt!

[TomClash]

27. I agree partially

The first three paragraphs are basically right,

The fourth paragraph is wrong - OPEC and FGE saw substantial increases in Iranian capacity last year, before Iran became OPEC chair.

As for Arab News I would take THAT with a grain of salt. Iran increased capacity and it's not that hard to do. I'd like to see actual numbers from OPEC or FGE.

According to the UN, years of UN sanctions against Iraq (supported by the "non-despotic nations") caused the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children. Since then I have tried to refrain from tyrannical descriptions of other nations' leaders. take a trip to teheran and tell me what you think.

[MADem]

29. I am actually not arguing the increases in capacity, but they came

as a result of crushing austerity measures and the lifting of the huge subsidies (when caviar costs the same as corn, everyone's eating caviar, after all), requiring Iranians to pay "full price" for gas (something the Shah never would think of doing). There was also rationing of gasoline in force, a typically clumsy and heavily bureaucratic system, which cut down on demand (and sent the taxi drivers to the black market).

It was a shell game to a large extent.

I used to live in Teheran, in the far north of the city at the foot of the Zagros....and Esfahan, a pleasant distance from the river. My friends who are still there aren't liking the bullshit coming down from on high too much, or the difficulty keeping their cars on the road.

[TomClash]

30. Maybe the increased gasoline is being diverted to the black market

and not getting to petrol stations for a variety of reasons, including corruption. But Greece does not seem to be importing oil to send it back as gasoline. It simply can't get credit.

[MADem]

32. I'm simply talking about a potential barter arrangement here.

They are getting oil from Iran, with more enroute. If one does not have money, which is where Greece finds herself these days, it simply makes sense to "pay" as much as possible in other ways.

[madrchsod]

5. the greeks and the persains...intertwined for thousands of years

[coyote]

6. Looks like the Greeks are terrorist now....dare I say...EVIL DOERS!!!!

A big no no....associating with the likes of Iran.

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. But also buried in the Reuters story is this bit:

"Greece, with no domestic production, relies on oil imports and in 2010 imported 46 percent of its crude from Russia and 16 percent from Iran. Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan provided 10 percent each, Libya 9 percent and Iraq 7 percent, according to data from the European Union."

Note that with the exception of Russia and Iran, the USA directly or indirectly controls the oil flow.

Also note: currency wars are also at the heart of global geo politics.
Remember that the world's reserve currency is the dollar ( oil is sold for dollars) and if that changes,
TPTB will lose a LOT of their ill gotten value.

China And Iran To Bypass Dollar, Plan Oil Barter System.. 07/24/2011
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/china-and-iran-bypass-dollar-plan-oil-barter-system-and-deeper-dive-iranian-oil-bourse

Iran ready to sell oil in any currency: central bank
AGENCIES Aug 13, 2010,

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2010-08-13/news/27570340_1_currency-isna-dollar-and-euro


( Iran has been selling oil in non-dollar currencies since 2007, actually)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_oil_bourse

[dipsydoodle]

12. If oil ceased to be traded using Petrodollars

the USA's fiat money scam would come to a complete end.

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. Exactly.

Apparently Saddam was planning to do just that, as well as Gaddafi.
Hmmmmmm.

[Delphinus]

16. I had heard that,

but not seen it around the DU so wasn't sure to put much stock in it or not.

[dipsydoodle]

19. please link at reply#18 for how the fiat scam operates

.

[dipsydoodle]

18. No - Saddam actually went ahead and did it

He repriced in Euros in November 2000. Doing so cost him a minor fortune. However - what happened after that was that the Euro strengthened and it cost the US an even bigger fortune buying Euros to pay for the oil they wanted.

Some background here ;

In November 2000, Iraq began selling its oil in euros. Iraq's oil for food account at the UN was also in euros and Iraq later converted its $10 billion reserve fund at the UN to euros. Several other oil producing countries have also agreed to sell oil in euros-Iran, Libya, Venezuela, Russia, Indonesia, and Malaysia (soon to join this group). In July 2003, China announced that it would switch part of its dollar reserves into the world's emerging "reserve currency" (the euro).
On January 1, 1999, when 11 European countries formed a monetary union around this currency, Britain and Norway, the major oil producers, were absent. As the U.S. economy began to slow down during mid-2000, Western stock markets began to yield lower dividends. Investors from Gulf Cooperation Council nations lost over $800 million in the stock plunge. As investors sold U.S. assets and reinvested in Europe, which seemed to be better shielded from a recession, the euro began to gain ground against the dollar .
After September 11, 2001, Islamic financiers began to repatriate their dollar investments-amounting to billions of dollars-to Arab banks, as they were worried about the possible seizure of their assets under the USA PATRIOT Act. Also, they feared their accounts might be frozen on the suspicion that such accounts fund Islamic terrorists. Iranian sources stated that their banking colleagues felt particularly hassled as Washington heated up its war of words and threats of military intervention. This encouraged Tehran to abandon the dollar payment for oil sales and switch to the euro. Iran also moved the majority of its reserve fund to the euro. (Iran is the latest target of the U.S., which has interfered by stirring up opposition forces, and making covert threats.)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/Iraq_dollar_vs_euro.html

[dixiegrrrrl]

22. Yout beat me to it..I was just reading that article and others like it!

New book is out, called Currency Wars.
Oil is currency, so to speak ( world reserve currency is dollars, oil is sold in dollars, mostly).

So the expanding imperialistic wars are being fought for oil and dollar control. Pure and simple.
And the countries that object to our controlling either of those tend to end up this way:

[Dover]

34. Also of interest is Iran/Iraq/Syrian pipeline that will compete with U.S.pipeline, & go thru Greece.

I don't know yet how Greece will benefit or play this geo-politically and economically speaking, but they are players:


In July Iran, Iraq, and Syria signed a $10 billion contract for transiting Iranian natural gas from Iran's massive offshore South Pars gas field in the Persian Gulf to Europe via a 3,100-mile pipeline crossing Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and subsequently submerging beneath the Mediterranean before surfacing in Greece, the EU’s first transit country. The pipeline is estimated to take 3-5 years to build.

http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Investors-Considering-Iran-Iraq-Syria-Europe-Pipeline.html

[dipsydoodle]

37. By the US pipeline do you mean

the line from Azerbaijan to Turkey.

[Dover]

40. The U.S.-backed Nabucco

Nabucco is the new gas bridge from Asia to Europe and the flagship project in the Southern Corridor. It will be a pipeline to connect the world’s richest gas regions - the Caspian region, Middle East and Egypt - to the European consumer markets.
http://www.nabucco-pipeline.com/portal/page/portal/en


The route:
http://www.nabucco-pipeline.com/portal/page/portal/en/pipeline/route

[dipsydoodle]

41. I meant this one

Baku–Tbilisi–Ceyhan pipeline http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku%E2%80%93Tbilisi%E2%80%93Ceyhan_pipeline

Here's your one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2010Nabuccopipelinemap.jpg

[Dover]

43. That's the other one. But the pipeline that is being compared, competitively speaking,

with the one proposed by Iran/Iraq/Syria is the Nabucco line.

[Turbineguy]

11. It seems we are seeing the typical short sighted human behavior.

The Greeks owe a lot and others try to make sure they can't make the payments. There are simply greater profits to be made from a Greek default. Except these profits don't actually exist. In the US mortgage meltdown, which happened slowly, those at the head of the line (Peter Schiff, John Paulsen and others), took billions off the table while families got thrown out of their homes.

In a Greek default, everything will trigger at once, and while the banking system will be instantly emptied of money, holders will get pennies on the dollar with very few opportunities to enjoy it. These people will still have to move in a heavily armed populace with nothing left to lose. This may explain why so many of these types have moved to gun-controlled Europe.

[Deep13]

13. A bit ironic considering how hard Greeks fought to keep Persians out ...

...in the iron age. This could be a good thing for both countries.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. Good for Greece, and good for Iran.

[Prometheus Bound]

26. Interesting development.

[socialist_n_TN]

28. This is why the PIIGS countries need to confederate

under a TRUE socialist umbrella. They CAN help each other.

[dipsydoodle]

38. Only by way of trade

and they've already got that under the EU.

[socialist_n_TN]

45. Well, I did say under a socialist confederation.........

If the PEOPLE of these countries want to counter the banker's dictatorship of capital, they're going to have to go socialist. And that's REAL socialist, NOT the SINO version of neoliberalism espoused by PASOK or the other Euro social "democratic" parties.

They won't be able to do it alone, but if they're dropped by the EU OR drop out themselves, they're going to need support and I could see them confederating for mutual support. I could also see them bringing in some of the Latin American countries who successfully fought this anti-austerity battle in the early part of the last decade.

Otherwise, they might as well just give up because NONE of the bourgeoisie political parties, no matter what their name, will fight for the people against the bankers. They're ALL neoliberals economically.