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Bosonic Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 05:17 PM
Original message
Crowds attack diplomatic missions in Syria-residents
Source: Reuters

AMMAN Nov 12 (Reuters) - Crowds armed with sticks and knives attacked the Saudi embassy in Damascus and the French and Turkish consulates in the city of Latakia on Saturday after the Arab League suspended Syria, residents said.

A diplomatic source in Damascus confirmed the attacks, which took place hours after the Syrian suspension by the Arab League to condemn an eight-month crackdown by President Bashar al-Assad's security forces on pro-democracy demonstrations.

Read more: http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL5E7MC16S20111112
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd say they didn't take it very well. n/t
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'd say we're stirring up a blood-bath, a very large, global blood-bath. This won't come cheap.
Edited on Sat Nov-12-11 05:26 PM by leveymg
Expect a lot of American casualties, all over the place, if this continues. The Assad regime will go down fighting, and has much more formidable assets and allies than any of the little dominoes we've been tipping since 2001.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. 'We're' stirring up a blood bath?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. It is a bloodbath already - have you not noticed?
AI and HRW have.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Syria has been contained for decades. Efforts at regime change will just cause it to metastasize
Edited on Sun Nov-13-11 11:06 AM by leveymg
and unleash a lot of highly-trained, well-organized terrorist cells around the world.

You think we're safe here in "The Homeland?" You're only fooling yourselves.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. "Contained"?
You mean citizens massacred?

BTW, there are mass defections from the Syrian army because even they cannot stomach the bloodshed.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. What do you expect from a police state other than massacres?
Edited on Sun Nov-13-11 11:32 AM by leveymg
Nothing subtle about the Assad regime or the Syrian Ba'athist Party. They are cohesive, cornered, and quite capable of enormous violence against their enemies anywhere they can reach.

We're kicking a hornet's nest. Not a good idea unless we're willing to, ultimately, fight another land war in the Middle East and face a wave of organized terrorist attacks that will make al-Qaeda look like the Junior League. Even the Israelis recognize the high collateral damage that would result to themselves, so they've laid off. See, post below about Syrian Irregular Forces.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. "We're kicking a hornet's nest"
No, we are not.

The Syrian people are.

It has gotten so bad that the AL has taken steps.

Not us.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. 18 countries in the Arab League just voted to impose sanctions on Syria.
I'd say it's their problem too now.
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CJvR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Syrian gear...
Syrian Army

MBT:
1400 T72 (Sov)
1000 T62 (Sov)
200 T55 MV (Sov)
2000 T54/55 - stored (Sov)

AFV:
2300 BMP1 (Sov)
1500 BTR50/60/152 & (Sov)
OT-62/64 (Cze/Pol)

Armored cars:
400 BRDM1 (Sov)
600 BRDM2 (Sov)

AA-guns:
300 ZSU234 (Sov)
10 ZSU572 (Sov)
SA6/7/8/9/11/13/18 (Sov)

Artillery:
400 2S1 122mm (Sov)
50 2S3 152mm (Sov)
2600 Towed guns mostly WP origin


Syrian Navy

Corvettes:
2 PETYA II (Sov)

Light Forces:
8 OSA II (Sov)
8 ZHUK (Sov)

Minewarfare:
1 NATYA (Sov)
3 SONYA, 2x VANYA (Sov)

Amphibious:
3 POLNOCNY -LCT (Sov)

Naval aviation:
12 Mi 4 (Sov)
4 Ka 25 (Sov)
20 Mil 4 (Sov)


Syrian Airforce

Combat:
20 SU 24 Fencer -Strike (Sov)
70 MIG 23 (Sov)
30 MIG 25 (Sov)
40 MIG 29 (Sov)
150 MIG 21F (Sov)
40 MIG 23 BN -Strike (Sov)
40 SU 20/22 -Strike (Sov)
6 MIG 25 R -Recon (Sov)

AF-Transport:
6 AN 12 (Sov)
6 AN 26 (Sov)
2 AN 24 (Sov)
8 IL 14 (Sov)
4 IL 76 (Sov)
4 IL 134 (Sov)

AF-Helicopters:
100 MI 8 (Sov)
100 Mil 7 (Sov)
10 Mi 2 (Sov)
50 Mi 25 (Sov)
16 Mi 14 (Sov)
5 Ka 25 -ASW (Sov)
36 Mi 24 (Sov)
55 Gazelle (Fra)

AF-Training:
20 MIG 21U (Sov)
30 MIG 17 (Sov)
83 L39 ALBATROS (Cze)
60 L29 DELFINE (Cze)
30 MBB223 FLAMINGO (BRD)
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. It's Syria's irregular warfare capabilities we should really be worried about
Edited on Sun Nov-13-11 11:19 AM by leveymg
The Syrian Ba'athist regime is a hybrid of a political party, social movement, with strong (but not dominant) Shi'ia religious bonds (while ideologically more secular, socialist in outlook than Iran, and Syria is more religiously diverse, the Assad family and many ranking party members still retain a common Shiite identity).

The Ba'ath Party is far stronger than any conceivable coalition of domestic opposition forces that might dare to coalesce to challenge it. Unlike Libya and Iraq, this is not a strongman-centered regime, but is instead, like Iran, a broad-based and cohesive political-religious movement - which makes both regimes natural allies (and rivals), and formidable common opponents. The biggest threat to the Party is the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood, and the fact that Syria is roughly 80 percent Sunni. Efforts at regime change have played off of Saudi-funded efforts to divide and radicalize the local Sunni clergy, which have long been subdued by the secular government and authorities.

The real strength in depth of Syria (like Iran) is its unconventional, guerrilla warfighting capabilities, which cannot be defeated by air power alone, and would require very large U.S. or NATO ground forces to subdue. Israel, alone, could not do it alone using its own conventional forces (despite its air superiority and what is claimed for its advantage with precision stand-off weapons). The following assessment is from an Israeli military publication: http://defense-update.com/20110913_evolving-into-hybrid-forces-challenging-the-idf-precision-fires-domination.html

The change of mind in the Syrian Army came after the 1991 first Gulf War (Operation Desert Storm), where Syria became part of the U.S. lead coalition forces, sending the 9th division to fight the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait along with other coalition forces ( But eluded entering into actual combat). The Gulf War was an ‘eye opener’ for the Syrian high command, becoming exposed to the high lethality of western modern weaponry and tactics, so far being entirely geared to Soviet combat doctrine and its inferior weapon technology. This earth shaking experience triggered Syrian General Ali Aslan, then Army Chief of Staff to begin the transformation.

The strategic shift was not exclusive to Syria. Iran has also implemented a similar move, by gradually expanding its reach and influence in South Lebanon through their Hezbollah proxy. Hezbollah developed its forces as independent fighting units each dug into a specific location, equipped with personnel, weapons, supplies and fortifications capable of operating continuously for days, independent of communications, supply lines or even command and control.

With several such domains dominating key locations in South Lebanon, the small semi-irregular force, trained to fight in virtually ‘hybrid’ style, was deployed to contain an Israeli land maneuver, by posing continuous fighting capability deployed throughout the theater, denying the Israelis the ‘luxury’ in attacking strategic ‘weak points‘ in an attempt to overwhelm the entire enemy array by massive surge operations. Operating such multiple domains in and around the villages and cities of South Lebanon in 2006 enabled relatively small forces of Hezbollah to deny the Israeli army dominating the battle areas, constantly keeping the Israelis at risk, despite repeated efforts to clear certain areas and vital supply routes. What seemed to be Israeli hesitation and indecision was actually an unsuccessful attempt of the northern command to seize the initiative pushing the enemy off balance.

The IDF could employ different land maneuver campaigns. One option was a deep, decisive push north, through the enemy interior, in a move that would isolate the battle area and eliminate any escape of Hezbollah northward, weeding out enemy forces by exposing their hideouts. Alternatively, a series of local operations, closer to the border, could methodically wear out enemy forces by a series of local engagements, backed by massive support fires from the Israeli side of the border, exposing minimal forces to enemy attack. Both concepts were partly tried in 2006, without much success, using insufficient force concentrations, and failing to apply continuous pressure, due to political hesitation.

The different concepts have inherent drawbacks. The deep penetrating maneuver required massive forces to go simultaneously after all enemy hideouts throughout the combat area, including locations bypassed during the initial move, in a highly organized and closely controlled operation that would seep up large IDF forces and risk significant casualties and collateral damage. On the other side, the ‘local’ alternative would not help in eliminating rocket attacks on the Israeli rear area, which inevitably raises a political issue, questioning the overall purpose of the campaign from a national viewpoint.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. It is only a problem if the Syrian Army has not defectors.
I heard there are 15,000 and counting.
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Bosonic Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. Turkey evacuates families of its diplomats in Syria
Families of Turkish diplomats returned to Turkey after the country decided to evacuate them following violent protests that involved hundreds of Syrian government supporters who attacked Saturday the Turkish embassy in Damascus as well as its chief consulate in Aleppo and honorary consulate in Latakia, Anadolu Agency reported.

A Turkish Airlines plane took off earlier Sunday brought back the families of the Turkish diplomats as well as non-essential staff due to worsening security situation in Syria.

http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1956452.html
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