Occupy vows to 'shut down Wall St.'

[brooklynite]

Source: NY Daily News

Occupy Wall Street protesters are going all out for Thursday’s two-month anniversary of their movement, vowing to “shut down Wall Street” and hold marches, strikes and rallies all over town - even underground.

The ambitious day of action, billed as getting them “Out of the Park and into the Streets,” is likely to set up new confrontations with the police.

The day is to start with an early morning “street carnival” outside the Stock Exchange - highly symbolic real estate that has been zealously guarded by the NYPD.

The group promises "a block party the 1% will never forget."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/occupy-vows-hut-wall-st-article-1.977430

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The protestors should feel welcome to protest as energetically and creatively as they want to. But, if they physically obstruct access to Wall Street, they will be arrested, and they will deserve to be.

To be clear, I do not endorse abusive behavior by the authorities. but anyone choosing to engage in civil disobedience has to be prepared for the consequences of the "disobedience" part of the equation.

[shraby]

1. I'm sure they are all aware of the possible consequences.

And are willing to risk them for the bigger goal. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[PETRUS]

2. That's part of civil disobedience.

Accepting the consequences, that is. Which is why deliberate violations of the law should have some amount of value (symbolic or material).

[slackmaster]

3. Blood will be flowing in the gutters by the end of the day

So it goes.

[DocMac]

21. What?? Get your ass out there!

I'm not anyone special here but i'm not wanting to see people agree with you.

[slackmaster]

32. Full-time job, mentally ill house guest under my care, legal battle with Bank of America in progress

...two cats, and I'm 53 years old.

The only kind of fight I'm willing to prosecute at this point would be on my own turf, and it would probably involve firearms.

[Myrina]

39. All the more reason(s) YOU should be there.

You are exactly what Occupy is about. Choosing to let someone else's blood flow because you're "too busy" is sadly indicative of your screen name.

[slackmaster]

40. If you offer to pay my round-trip air fare to NYC I might take you up on it

Once I get the mentally ill person evicted. I could use a break.

[dogfacedboy]

31. And those who draw that blood should pay dearly for doing so.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[obliviously]

5. How much will this one

cost the taxpayers to clean up and repair after? How much money will be taken that could go to other projects for an already cash strapped city.

[boppers]

10. I'm guessing it'll cost .0001 wars of capital.

Or maybe .0045 bank bailouts.

[brooklynite]

11. Neither of which are a component of the budget of the City of new York

[JackRiddler]

12. So New York should stop wasting money on creating a police state...

and not just in Zucotti Park.

[msongs]

13. let the police clean up...when they are not all fixing traffic tickets and breaking their own laws n

[backscatter712]

17. The more it costs, the better!

At this point, we should be deliberately sticking the one-percenters and their government fuckbuddies with seven-figure bills.

[russspeakeasy]

20. Want some cheese with that whine.

[obliviously]

29. Enjoy your cells.

[LanternWaste]

42. I imagine many people want social change...

I imagine many people want social change; but only when it's convenient, low-cost, and with no after-taste...

[Lucky Luciano]

6. Most of the actual trading happens away from wall st itself. nt

[JackRiddler]

9. Another variation on "Surrender Dorothy"

The main banker-gangsters aren't even at Wall Street, so what's the use of protest, right? (Thanks for the pedantry.)

[Lucky Luciano]

49. Don't know why that subthread was deleted.

:shrug:

Anyway, my point below was responding to: "** Hm, what's the difference if the fuckers are in the office or not? The algorithm is now the bigger serial killer." which you said and I thought that HFT was essentially not the bigger "serial killer" and that Fixed Income leverage was.


Also, re "Surrender Dorothy," my point is that protesting right in front of the various key office buildings, many of which are in midtown makes more sense to me.



Edit: autocorrects on iPhones sometimes make my messages very cryptic!

[JackRiddler]

50. That is weird. Did we throw anything at each other?

A bit of forceful language for effect, perhaps. Doesn't encourage me to write more, nothing against you of course.

Anyway, let the games begin.

[wordpix]

51. yes, like in Congress with their insider info

[Bluenorthwest]

7. Occupy the Pool Room!

I think people who engaged in civil disobedience are aware of the risks of arrest and undue violence, OWS has certainly seen plenty of both already.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mosaic]

14. Corporate friendly article

Please don't' post articles that try to smear, belittle, our movement. If the emphasis of the corporate media piece is cops and arrest, please don't post it here. Unrec.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

15. "But, if they physically obstruct access to Wall Street...

...they will be arrested, and they will deserve to be."

It seems we have a clash of rights between the potentially inconvenienced Wall Streeters and the wealth inequality aggrieved demonstrators. Might make an interesting poll question:

City ordinance SHOULD trump First Amendment -- yes or no?

and a follow up:

City ordinance WILL trump First Amendment -- yes or no?

[backscatter712]

16. Disruption is absolutely necessary for success.

If the protesters all played by the rules, got their permits, walked on pre-approved routes, stayed in the "free speech" zones, we would get nothing.

The media yawns and continues playing the pro-corporate wurlitzer.

The politicians yawn and continue fucking us.

The corporations yawn and continue gouging us.

It is only when mass numbers of people misbehave by blocking streets, getting arrested, clogging the courts, blockading businesses, and shutting down entire city economies that the one-percenters are forced to deal with us and the masses actually start hearing what's really going on.

Sorry. We've tried voting. We've all written letters to our members of Congress. We've signed petitions, made our polite phone calls, canvassed, played by the rules. We're still being fucked.

I aim to misbehave...

[brooklynite]

18. So, if you've "tried voting"...

...please explain exactly how the changes you want to achieve are going to come about.

Are the majority Republicans in the House going to recognize the error of their ways and pass the laws you want?

[backscatter712]

19. By making the status quo impossible.

The sons-of-bitches will only do the right thing when they have absolutely no other options. The goal is to make cities, or even more ungovernable.

[brooklynite]

26. If that's the goal, then the movement will lose its public support, and deservedly so...

Polls show that the ISSUES the Occupy movement has been protesting have resonance with the public. They do not show that the TACTIC of disrupting public life has public support.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

22. What makes you think the struggle for...

...a new and better system that will not allow such egregious wealth inequality as we currently have in the US will be any different than Women's Suffrage or the lengthy struggle for civil rights of black Americans?

What would you have told Rosa Parks if you'd been there in Montgomery back 1955 and she'd confided in you before boarding that crowded city bus that she intended to find a seat and keep it? Would you have said: "I wouldn't, Rosa, you do that and you're going to be arrested, and deservedly so -- city ordinance is very clear as to priority seating for whites on public transportation?"

[brooklynite]

25. Rosa Parks had a legitimate purpose in violating local laws...

...because it was the local law that was denying her civil rights.

The laws of the City of New York (or Boston, or Oakland or Portland) do NOT govern banking activity, campaign finance or national taxation.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

27. These protesters are targeting Wall Street specifically...

...because what goes on there is very much a part of the wealth inequality equation, thus, city ordinance(s) protecting Wall Street's physical space from peaceful occupation as a means of redress can be as legitimately ignored by OWS as Rosa Parks was legitimate in ignoring the city ordinance when she occupied and refused to vacate her seat on the bus.

[Zorra]

37. I occupy. This is just my opinion and

to the best of my knowledge does not represent a consensus determined by any General Assembly.

It is an attempt to explain how the changes some of us wish for can come about.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2257416

On edit: A major general strike/boycott would be a future method of coercing congress to do the will of the People if congress does not accede to our desires when presented with less extreme measures.

[boppers]

33. We played by "the rules" for 20 years or more.

It didn't work.

Time to change the rules.

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. They are brave and good to face arrest to make the clear statement that SOME do not get arrested

when they fuck over the rest of us!

[EFerrari]

24. We should send this OP out as a recruitment letter. nt

[FunMe]

28. Oops, how do I "unrecomend"?

I press the wrong button!

[Tunkamerica]

34. delete

[freshwest]

30. ...

:kick:

[lunatica]

35. It's a given that they get the arrest for civil disobedience

Do you think they should shut up and go home?

[JackRiddler]

36. Go home? Not enough. They should donate their kidneys to the job creators at Goldman Sachs.

[Zorra]

38. Yeah. It's just so beautiful.

Right now I'm really wishing I could go to NY so I could go to this party.

It sounds like the best party ever.

Go OWS sisters and brothers!
:hugs:

[dmosh42]

41. Too soon for that- need to get 100,000 plus!

[wandago]

43. "And they DESERVE to be"?

So you have decided that municipal regulations trump First Amendment rights? Would you care the justify this claim? Let's see you do it.

[dipsydoodle]

44. The problems with vows

is that once made it creates a credibility problem if not kept.

I wish them luck in keeping that vow.

[Downtown Hound]

45. No, they don't "deserve to be arrested."

The bankers deserve to be arrested. They are the ones that have forced this occupation. Civil disobedience may require willingness to be arrested, but the whole point of that is to demonstrate injustice. The injustice here being that bankers can literally get away with destroying the world economy through fraud (and, actually, be rewarded handsomely for it) while people fighting for their livelihoods are being roughed up and incarcerated.

Civil disobedience is a tactic to demonstrate injustice. Deserve has nothing to do with it.

[CatholicEdHead]

46. Going to be tough

A story on Marketplace a few weeks ago talked about how Wall Street has moved from the exchange building to online and most trades are done from computer from major trader locations in Midtown and other parts of NYC, even to the outer suburbs.

[Missy Vixen]

47. Sure you don't

>To be clear, I do not endorse abusive behavior by the authorities. but anyone choosing to engage in civil disobedience has to be prepared for the consequences of the "disobedience" part of the equation.<

Maybe someone else will get a flash-bang in the forehead, hm? That's what they get for daring to stand up for what they believe in!

:eyes:

[mvd]

48. Obstructing for a little bit would be a good thing

It wouldn't be violent if they do leave when asked. They might not even be arrested. It they were, they'd probably get right out anyway, though some protestors have been treated badly in jail for more hours than necessary.

[wordpix]

52. Brookfield Properties owns a public park? WTF? Occupy!

[Lucky Luciano]

53. No, it is a private park open to the public.

A lot of real estate companies do that to help get favorable deals with the city - my own buildingg has a private park open to the public right next to it and they get a tax break from the city for providing "green space."

[Zorra]

54. kick