US eases economic sanctions on Libya

[maddezmom]

President Bush on Friday cleared the way for American companies to do business in Libya, easing Reagan-era economic sanctions as a reward to Moammar Gadhafi for giving up weapons of mass destruction.

The lifting of sanctions imposed in 1986 and those imposed under a 1996 Libya sanctions law will allow a resumption of oil imports from Libya.

It also will permit American oil companies to resume commercial activities in Libya. Marathon, ConocoPhillips, Amerada Hess and Occidental all have assets in Libya but have been barred by the U.S. government from operating there since 1986.

Libyan assets held in the United States or by U.S. banks will remain frozen.

~snip~
more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/04/23/financial1356EDT0151.DTL

edited to change title and add link.

[ronnykmarshall]

1. Oh goodie!

We deal with a dictator that killed people on the Pan Am flight, but not Cuba?

[GermanDJ]

8. Libya was probably not responsible for the Lockerbie bombing

I have pointed this out about a zillion times here at DU. The trial in which (only one) of the Libyan suspects was sentenced was rather bizarre, to say the least. At the crime scene in Lockerbie vast amounts of money and drugs were found. None of which were presented at the trial. Probably because this evidence would have pointed in the direction of the real perpetrators: Iran and a radical Palestinian group. The bombing of the PanAm flight was probably a revenge for the shoot down of a civil airplane by US military during the Iran-Iraq war (shortly before Iran stopped hostilities).

You might ask why the real terrorists were not accused? Well, I can answer that: Because there were hostages in the Middle East which would have been endangered if the "wrong" states would be accused.

Some facts regarding Lockerbie and the events which (probably) led to it can be found here:

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/TerrorInUSA/faq/Libya.asp#lockerbie

http://www.countercurrents.org/chomsky3.htm

http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/chris.holt/home.informal/bar/politics/vincennes.3

http://www.zmag.org/meastwatch/prospects_for_peace.htm

"It went beyond that. The next year, in 1988, a US destroyer, the US Vincennes, shot down an Iranian commercial airliner, Iran Air 654, killing 290 people, in Iranian airspace. In fact the destroyer was in Iranian territorial waters; there’s no serious dispute about the basic facts. Iran took that extremely seriously. They concluded the US was willing to go to extreme lengths to ensure that Saddam Hussein wins, and at that point they capitulated. It wasn’t a minor event for them. It’s a minor event here because that’s just our atrocity, and by definition the powerful have no moral responsibilities and cannot commit crimes."

[mulethree]

29. no oil in cuba

just some backward people who are way too happy being communist and underdeveloped.

[DRoseDARs]

2. Libya, not Lybia

Nitpick

[maddezmom]

4. thanks I'll change it

:)

[Onlooker]

3. This should not be spinned as a bad thing

The right-wing might take him to task on this, but I doubt it because they're simply mindless apparatiks and hypocrites. However, this is not a bad thing. Qadaffi is bizarre and dangerous, but sad to say in many ways he's one of the more progressive Middle Eastern leaders.

[mobuto]

6. Progressive?

What's progressive about being an absolute dictator? To add insult to injury, he's a terrorist too, but all is forgiven because he's a contrite terrorist. All of this begs the question, when Osama bin Laden realizes the error of his ways, will a future Republican Administration greet him as an ally in the War on Terror?

[GermanDJ]

9. Funny that you mention Osama Bin Laden

Because it was not the FBI which ordered an Interpol-warrant for him in the first place. It was the Libyan police after OBL and some of his henchman murdered a couple in Libya.

And again, much of the accusations against Qaddafi are media fabrications. The Libyan leader is not innocent, that much is clear. But when you compare his crimes with those of Bush, Blair and the atrocities most Western governments have conducted of the the last 30 years, he looks pretty good.

Just think, for example, about the 1,5 Million Iraqis the West has murdered since 1991 with sanctions that were directed against the Iraqi population. And the slaughter goes on as I write ...

[mobuto]

10. The evidence is pretty clear

that Qadafi ordered terrorist attacks on civilians. He's a terrorist - different from Osama bin Laden only in degree and ideology.

Just think, for example, about the 1,5 Million Iraqis the West has murdered since 1991 with sanctions that were directed against the Iraqi population.

The last I heard the number quoted it was 500,000. Now its 1.5 million. Tomorrow it will be 500,000,000. Where's your source?

Moreover, I don't disagree that Qadafi opposes Islamist fundamentalists like Bin Laden. But that doesn't legitimize him as a political figure. In fact, its that same kinf of "my enemy's enemy is my friend" thinking that led the United States to support the precursors to the Taliban during their fight against the Soviets. Both sides were bad then, just as both Qadafi and Bin Laden are undeserving of our support here.

[GermanDJ]

12. Could you please prove this?

We had the same discussion about Venezuela's president Hugo Chavez and Haiti's president Aristide. Some people on this board seem to be destined to throw allegations around without ever providing any proof. Sometimes they link to articles from the Washington Times, but that's a different story ...

Oh, and regarding the Iraqis which were murdered by "our" sanctions: 500.000 was the number of the murdered children a couple of years ago. Since then the number has increased even more.

BTW: Didn't you follow the discussions about the sanctions against Iraq here at DU? It was covered a lot!

Here is some background information:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,232986,00.html

http://www.fair.org/extra/0111/iraq.html

"Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

Then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright's quote, calmly asserting that U.S. policy objectives were worth the sacrifice of half a million Arab children, has been much quoted in the Arabic press."

[mobuto]

13. Um

We had the same discussion about Venezuela's president Hugo Chavez and Haiti's president Aristide.

Really? I wasn't aware than anyone had accused either of organizing international terrorism.

As for Qaddafi's role as a terrorist, far from being a fiction created by the media, its been confirmed by every international organization including the United Nations, which slapped international sanctions on Libya following the bombing of PanAm 103.

Oh, and regarding the Iraqis which were murdered by "our" sanctions: 500.000 was the number of the murdered children a couple of years ago. Since then the number has increased even more.

500,000 was a wild estimate some years ago, and since some children just have to have died since, you think its perfectly reasonable to just guess that maybe, oh, say a million more have died? A million's a nice round number. But why not say ten million? That's more impressive, and it puts it up in the ranks of the leading humanitarian disasters of all time. Now some would argue that a specific number - 11,563,232 dead children for example - brings with it an air of authority, but its so much harder to remember.

The problem is very simple: you just invented the 1.5 million figure. Made it up. Its bullshit.

[GermanDJ]

14. Thank you

I didn't expect that you'd provide any of your hard facts *lol*

Really? I wasn't aware than anyone had accused either of organizing international terrorism.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/817209/posts

"Whistle-blower Major Juan Diaz Castillo, pilot of the Venezuelan Airforce One, revealed more details of how president Hugo Chavez supported Al Qaeda in the aftermath of 9/11. In statements to the press in Miami Saturday, the defector shed new light on the terrorist support network recently uncovered in the highest level of the Venezuelan government."
(Sorry 'bout this link. But it's the freepers who use these "arguments" against Chavez)

Again, strange that that you don't remember this, mobuto! If I remember correctly, you were very engaged in discussions about Hugo Chavez' left wing political government ...

[mobuto]

15. Well, I'm not omnipresent and can't see everything

If you must know, I think any effort to tie Chavez to Al Qaeda is just slightly ridiculous.

But please, don't let me change the subject from your astonishing claim that US sanctions killed 1.5 million Iraqis and your apparent claim that Qaddafi isn't a terrorist.

After all, you've demonstrated how much you are a stickler for things like evidence.

[GermanDJ]

17. The trouble with facts

is, you know, you must be willing to accept them when they're offered. You could for example just read the Guardian-article I offered you above. I don't know, why you didn't. Do you regard this as "biased liberal media", or why did you ignore it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,232986,00.html

"Half a million children have died in Iraq since UN sanctions were imposed - most enthusiastically by Britain and the US. Three UN officials have resigned in despair. Meanwhile, bombing of Iraq continues almost daily. John Pilger investigates

Saturday March 4, 2000
(...)

According to Unicef, the United Nations Children's Fund, the death rate of children under five is more than 4,000 a month - that is 4,000 more than would have died before sanctions. That is half a million children dead in eight years.
(...)

Inside the UN, Halliday broke a long collective silence. Then on February 13 2000, Hans von Sponeck, who had succeeded him as humanitarian co-ordinator in Iraq, resigned. "How long," he asked, "should the civilian population of Iraq be exposed to such punishment for something they have never done?" Two days later, Jutta Burghardt, head of the World Food Programme in Iraq, resigned, saying privately she, too, could not tolerate what was being done to the Iraqi people. Another resignation is expected."

An these were the numbers four years ago for the children alone.

Regarding the total numbers you might want to look here for example:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/oilforfood/2002/07indy.htm

"The international consensus has been crumbling after nearly 12 years of sanctions had reduced Iraqis to penury, taking a particularly heavy toll on children. A UNICEF study published in 1999 estimated that the mortality rate for children under five had more than doubled since 1990 from 56 to 131 deaths per 1,000. Some 32 percent of Iraqi children are chronically malnourished, and, according to one estimate, more than 1.5 million Iraqis have died because of the scarcity of medicine and food caused by the sanctions."


And by the way, mobuto: You constantly put words in other people's mouth.

For example, I said: And again, much of the accusations against Qaddafi are media fabrications. The Libyan leader is not innocent, that much is clear.

And you quoted me: But please, don't let me change the subject from your astonishing claim that US sanctions killed 1.5 million Iraqis and your apparent claim that Qaddafi isn't a terrorist.

[mobuto]

18. What does that mean?

Qaddafi isn't innocent, but the allegations against him are media fabrications? What, he's guilty of a whole other set of crimes?

I suppose he's a really twisted software pirate, or maybe an insider trader...

[GermanDJ]

19. Easy to explain

But you might need a dictionary. Just check what the word much means.

I wrote: Much of the accusations against Qaddafi are media fabrications.

BTW: Qaddafi's biggest crime was to remove the puppet, pro-Western monarchy in his country and - even worse *lol* - to nationalize the Libyan oil industry. That was really nasty, because from then on the profits from Libya's oil industry were no longer diverted to London and New York. And he even went so far to create a socialist nation. With these two moves alone he qualified as being called "terrorist" by our mass media.

I think I suggested it before to you. Let me say it again: If you want to understand how most of our media works, you might want to read a book by Noam Chomsky, for example "Media Control" or "Manufacturing Consent". This might help you to understand how much of what is being reported in our so-called free press serves - plain and simple - propaganda interests.

[mobuto]

20. Qaddafi's biggest crime

was nationalizing the oil industry - despite the fact that the same thing happened in Saudi Arabia and in virtually every other oil producing nation, yet we somehow neglected to embargo them?

I suppose PanAm 103 was a minor infraction? Along the lines of, say, bombing a Berlin nightclub?

[GermanDJ]

21. To answer your greatly documented comments

Qaddafi's biggest crime was nationalizing the oil industry

Yes, that's more or less my opinion about him.

I suppose PanAm 103 was a minor infraction?

No, it probably wasn't Libya.

For reference please read
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x505976#506063

[mobuto]

22. I've heard the theories

And yet despite them, a Libyan intelligence agent was convicted in a court of law of blowing it up.

[GermanDJ]

23. These are not theories

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/TerrorInUSA/faq/Libya.asp#lockerbie

[Character Assassin]

24. Yawn

So the West (even thought the sanctions were from the UN), and therefore the US, by direction implication, is directly responsible for Saddam Hussein not complying fully with the requirements that would have ended the sanctions and allowed in the medicine to save the purported number of dead?

Media bias is irrelevant when your logic is built on fallacy and assumption.

[GermanDJ]

25. Keep on yawning

Because ... It's just those brown skinned people dying.

And besides ... those are the ones ungrateful that their country is being occupied, women's rights are a fairy tale right now, their natural resources are being stolen and a highly corrupt 'provisional government' will be replaced soon by Baath Party members again.

All of this would actually be funny, if not hundred of thousands of Iraqis were killed by the US foreign policy.

[mobuto]

27. When in doubt, accuse others of racism

[Character Assassin]

28. It would be funny if you knew you were tilting at windmills

Ah, I see. 'Brown-skinned' people. Just like the ones in the UN who helped impose the sanctions in the first place.

Your snide implications of racism expose the house of cards you've built.

[GermanDJ]

30. Why not let someone else comment on this matter ...

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/chicago/ari_laughed_out_of_press_conference.mp3

MR. FLEISCHER: I haven't seen the story. And you already have the answer, about what this will be decided on. But think about the implications of what you're saying. You're saying that the leaders of other nations are buyable. And that is not an acceptable proposition. (Laughter.)


:+

*g*

[Character Assassin]

31. Why bother? It does nothing to address your fallacies.

[GermanDJ]

32. Oh C'mon ...

I'm the one who documents and explains his opinion on this matter with newspaper articles and detailed background information. Others on this board discuss mostly via the headline of their postings, without sharing their sources. On the basis of which information do you people judge about Libya?

And besides, you do not comment on the information I presented in my previous postings. That makes you and mobuto rather suspicious participants on this board, at least in my eyes.

No offense meant.

[kysrsoze]

26. Damb Cuba though.

That deserves a big :wtf:

[KissMyAsscroft]

5. It's bullshit that Bush is being given sole credit for this..

Lybia has wanted to play ball since the mid-nineties....Clinton got the ball rolling and Bush wraps it up..

It's a good thing, but it's by no means Bush's hard work....

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. Oh the times

they are a-changin' *music*

Conservatives will only use this as a sign that Bush's policy is working. :puke:

[trapper914]

16. Of course they will

They'll ignore that negotiations have been going on since 1998.

They'll ignore little details like the still ongoing human rights abuses going on in Libya...isn't that now our sole reason for Iraq? Liberating the people? Hmmmm.

They'll ignore the fact that Libya was far from a WMD danger. Example: The 50 tons of mustard gas at a turkey farm Bush mentioned in his press conference, turned out to be 26 tons of empty munitions scattered at various locations around the country.

They'll ignore the real reason Quaddafi is capitulating...money. It's not about any message sent by the Iraq war. It's about opening oil markets and getting money flowing back into Libya again.

[PfcHammer]

11. this is a reward for opening up the turkey farms to commercialization

by tyson foods.