NASA Curbs Comments on Ice Age Disaster Movie ("muzzled"!)

[DeepModem Mom]

New York Times:

NASA Curbs Comments on Ice Age Disaster Movie
By ANDREW C. REVKIN

Published: April 25, 2004


Urgent: HQ Direction," began a message e-mailed on April 1 to dozens of scientists and officials at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

It was not an alert about an incoming asteroid, a problem with the space station or a solar storm. It was a warning about a movie.

In "The Day After Tomorrow," a $125 million disaster film set to open on May 28, global warming from accumulating smokestack and tailpipe gases disrupts warm ocean currents and sets off an instant ice age.

Few climate experts think such a prospect is likely, especially in the near future. But the prospect that moviegoers will be alarmed enough to blame the Bush administration for inattention to climate change has stirred alarm at the space agency, scientists there say.

"No one from NASA is to do interviews or otherwise comment on anything having to do with" the film, said the April 1 message, which was sent by Goddard's top press officer. "Any news media wanting to discuss science fiction vs. science fact about climate change will need to seek comment from individuals or organizations not associated with NASA."

Copies of the message, and the one from NASA headquarters to which it referred, were provided to The New York Times by a senior NASA scientist who said he resented attempts to muzzle climate researchers.

(NASA has "appeared to relax its stand": "Though she did not disavow the e-mail, Gretchen Cook-Anderson, a spokeswoman at NASA headquarters, said on Thursday that the agency would make scientists available to discuss issues raised by the film.")


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/25/national/25MOVI.html

[Elidor]

1. Only an administration afraid of scientific truth would issue such

An order. They haven't got a leg left to stand on. The desperation is palpable.

[The Zanti Regent]

9. Here's the trailer

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/dayaftertomorrow/trailer/

Utterly amazing that this film comes from Screwpert Murdoch!

[ldf]

11. screwpert

probably sees this as another big bucks making disaster movie, with the opinion that it is just another screwball global warming apocalypse plotline. no chance of it happening.

maybe he will actually be helping to bring about the downfall of his buddy, w.

[NashVegas]

15. It's good bidness

hedging his bets.

[fearnobush]

2. Oh the supression of liberty in these United States.

I wonder what kind of email NOAA got? They post monthy to yearly climate data on their site. This past March for instance was the third warmest since accurate record keeping began in 1886. <http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2004/s2209.htm>Oh, the second warmest March was in 2002. So yes, their is a pattern here.

[Vogon_Glory]

3. Super Volcanoes Another Worry

Humanity has additional perils to worry about. As massive and disruptive as such volcanic eruptions as Vesuvius, Krakatoa, Pele, and Santorini have been, human civilization hasn't been hit by the really big ones--yet. In Earth's past, there have been some really massive ones that make these look like tiddlywinks. There's supposed to be a very large magma chamber under Yellowstone which could, at the very least, devastate the western USA during the eruption itself and devastate civilization in the northern hemisphere for decades afterwards with the soot and particulates.

This was from a program on the Discovery Channel, by the way.

Trust the Boosh regime to try and keep such things secret.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[Mari333]

4. Lets hope some real scientists who arent afraid

speak up, and get tons of press about this.
what absolute fascists! the Bush admin...assholes dont like truth.
Tough shit.

[Terry_M]

5. More Evidence

That Nasa is an over-bureaucratized organization that is becoming increasingly useless to society.

[donsu]

6. NASA has been taken over by the criminal bushgang

NASA as we knew and loved it is dead.

[stepnw1f]

18. So True Donsu

They have been such a marketing tool for this current administration. They try to link the mission rover to Mars part of Bush's bullshit legacy when we already know he had nothing to do with it.

[rocketdem]

24. No, NASA is not dead.

NASA is not embodied by the transient political operatives put in charge from one administration to another. NASA is defined by the people who actually do the work to make NASA's accomplishments possible. These people do not fluctuate from administration to administration. So please don't sound the death knell quite yet.

[Athame]

7. Didn't the PENTAGON just issue a report

that contradicts this and predicts an ice age in England within the decade due to global warming changing the "conveyor belt" and flushing the Gulf Stream with cold fresh water?


"Few climate experts think such a prospect is likely, especially in the near future."

[hang a left]

12. And is not NASA under the control of the Pentagon?

That is what I thought anyway.

[Ediacara]

13. The premise of the movie is that the change is instantaneous

Which is unlikely to say the least :-)

But the melting of Greenland's ice sheet will screw up ocean currents and could possibly create a European localized ice age even though global mean temperatures would continue to rise.

I doubt that this whole process would take less than 100 years (complete melting of Greenland, disruption of ocean currents, appreciable temperature changes in Europe etc), and a *day* is completely absurd.

Perhaps we should give NASA the benefit of the doubt, and hope they just want to have their scientists not wasting time explaining something VERY COMPLICATED on the Today Show :-)

[whatelseisnew]

16. The science is not the issue here, peoples voices are being suppressed

pre-emptively and for political purposes.

Please don't get sidetracked into arguing the science.

[Ediacara]

20. Um...

Or maybe you're completely overreacting to the memo, which is what I think most people on this thread are doing.

Do you work in science?

I didn't think so.

People in science dread stupid movies like this because calls from the media completely distract from their job for months.

[DeepModem Mom]

21. It's the scientists who leaked the email to the NYT --

They don't want to be muzzled on the issue of climate change.

From the article:

"'It's just another attempt to play down anything that might lead to the conclusion that something must be done' about global warming, one federal climate scientist said. He, like half a dozen government employees interviewed on this subject, said he could speak only on condition of anonymity because of standing orders not to talk to the news media."

[Ediacara]

30. I stand corrected

Yet, I still maintain that most scientists wish that these kind of movies didn't exist. Climate change is complicated, and neither Bush nor the Today show can escape that.

[DeepModem Mom]

32. A complicated issue...

indeed, DB. :)

[KittyWampus]

23. Research Into Fall Of Egypt Implies Instantaneous Change

In one year, a huge lake disappeared due to drought at the same time earth went through cool period. The lake, which is there now, had NO CORE SAMPLES for period in question. Took researcher a while to realize that was because it dried up and setiment blew away.

It brought about the end of the last Egyptian Kingdom.

Problem with science... they'll bicker about whether change happens over long periods or abruptly without considering how a blob of honey falls off a spoon. Little bit by little bit until all of a sudden- it plunges over the edge.

[Ediacara]

29. Do you have a reference or link for this?

Or is this something you heard once somewhere?

[Bridget Burke]

35. It was the Old Kingdom that fell.

The BBC's "Ancient Apocalypse" series--also shown on US cable TV--covered the story. There's some controversy, but it's beyond pseudo-science.

"The pharaohs of the Egyptian Old Kingdom had built the mightiest legacy of the ancient world - the pyramids at Giza. But after nearly a thousand years of stability, central authority disintegrated and the country collapsed into chaos for more than a 100 years.

"What happened, and why, has remained a huge controversy. But Professor Fekri Hassan, from University College London, UK, wanted to solve the mystery, by gathering together scientific clues.....

"Back in Egypt, Fekri wanted to put the last piece of the puzzle in place. He wanted direct evidence of this severe climate change in the Nile. And he found it drilling cores in a large lake that had been fed by a tributary of the Nile in ancient times.

"He discovered in the critical period, as the Old Kingdom collapsed, the lake had dried up completely - the only time in the whole history of this lake that this had happened. At last, Fekri felt he had proved that the writings on Ankhtifi's tomb were really true. It was nature that had driven people to desperation."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1458327.stm

[krkaufman]

38. Exactly

The whole "tipping point" thing.

That's the theory of the conveyer belt; it'll be more like a traditional light switch than a dimmer. There will be a point at which the saline density causes complete shutdown.

[Kool Kitty]

25. The reason that they use the "instantaneous" angle

is because they have come upon preserved (in ice) creatures, like mammoths and mastadons that have undigested food (such as plants) in their bellies. I thinki that is why some scientists believe that the change may be very rapid.
It would be nice, though, if scientists or scholars would go on the "Today" show to explain things. Then maybe less people would believe things like Saddam took part in the attacks on September 11, etc. (And I wouldn't worry about being found in a glacier with half a twinkie in my mouth. Kidding.)

On edit: Actually, I think the funniest thing about this whole story is that the Bush administration is scared about the reaction to a movie. It's a movie, Georgie. Think they are worried about how they are perceived?)

[Ediacara]

28. But animals die all the time

Just because animals die in snow and are preserved without going through necrosis doesn't mean that they were covered by glaciers in less than 10 minutes...

And... there is more than one meaning to instantaneous.... the movie's instantaneous is within a day. A geologist saying instantaneous means 1000 years.

[Eye and Monkey]

31. 10 minutes seems to be a bit o' exaggeration -

But, perhaps you have a bit of a mystery if you find a carcass that was frozen within a day or two of dying and has never been thawed; the digestive tract of the carcass contains undigested plant material that would not be found in a cold or frozen region or time of year.

[krkaufman]

39. The movie is instantaneous...

... because it makes it more dramatic. All the disaster scenes and what not.

The predicted "abrupt climate change", IIRC, will take place over something like 3-5 years and last an undetermined, by lengthy, period.

[rman]

34. 10 years or so is pretty instantanious

Analysis of Greenland's ice layer does show dramatic climate changes can and do take place over the course of decades as opposed to centuries, as was once thought.
Also ocean currents already are being disrupted now (decline of the gulf-stream).
Even if completion of the process takes many decades, we'll be in trouble long before that.
Of course all of that taking place in one day is indeed absurd.

[krkaufman]

36. Yes. "mini ice age" by 2020..

IIRC, the shutdown of the Atlantic "conveyor belt" would eliminate the warm air it normally provides to the Northeast US and Europe. Europe would be hit with a mini ice age, initiated relatively quickly over 3-5 years and lasting 100+ years; while the Northeast US would suffer Siberian winters. (Makes you ponder that insane cold spell across the Northeast earlier this year, eh?)

Estimates were that the effect could be expected before 2020.

Regardless of the accuracy of the movie, I'm glad they've made it. Maybe it'll bring the issue to the surface so the science can be debunked -- or proven.


p.s. And, remember, * isn't too worried about it, 'cause just them Blue states'll be hit the hardest.

[BraveDave]

8. Actually...

What I got out of it was that NASA didn't want to proactively speak out about the movie, but was willing to answer questions should they be presented with them. Why should they spend time and money disproving science fiction anyway? I'm sure they have more important things on their agenda.

[whatelseisnew]

17. Well then why is the memo so specific? This is not some broad policy.

The hallmarks of 'damage control' are apparent here.

[krkaufman]

40. Sorry, it isn't science fiction

It is science theory, and, as others in the thread have pointed out, is backed up to some degree by scientific observation.

The immediate change with attendant disasters, tidal waves, etc is bunk, but the change is predicted to be "abrupt" -- over a few years.

[walmartsucks]

10. It's not uncommon

Almost every compnay/agency in the world tells its employees not to comment to the press. This serves to keep the entity from appearing as though it has conlficting viewpoints on the same topic. That's why there is often only one representative of the company/agency who speaks to the press.

[Memekiller]

14. Bush's muzzling of scientists is unprecedented...

It goes beyond not allowing them to speak to the press, but to publish research that contradicts White House policy. for an idea of how bad it's gotten, go here:

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/rsi/index.cfm

Hopefully, since this censorship relates to a movie, it will bring attention to audiences of how brazen this administration has gotten in efforts to distort and suppress scientific findings in ALL areas of science, from pre-war intelligence to mercury in our water.

[DeepModem Mom]

19. The email was given to the NYT because scientists are upset --

From the article:

"'It's just another attempt to play down anything that might lead to the conclusion that something must be done' about global warming, one federal climate scientist said. He, like half a dozen government employees interviewed on this subject, said he could speak only on condition of anonymity because of standing orders not to talk to the news media."

Our government is not a business; it's supposed to be on our side -- it's supposed to formulate policy that protects us from harm. If that kind of policy was being formulated, instead of policies favoring polluters, I would imagine the scientists might be allowed to speak freely.

[krkaufman]

41. But global warming doesn't exist

NASA knows that if they want to keep any hope of all the Moon and Mars funding that they'd better not piss-off the * Misministration by lending any creedence to the voodoo science surrounding global warming.

[goforit]

22. ROFLMAO!!!!...What a bunch of whimps!!!

[Kool Kitty]

26. Exactly. It's a friggin' MOVIE, for heaven's sake!!

Is there any bit of information that they do not want to micromanage? If they are this bent out of shape by the release of this film, maybe they are hiding something? :think: Everything, but everything-news, photos, now a feature film-has to be cleared through the Ministry of Propaganda.

[jokerman93]

27. It is just a friggin ' movie

but it speaks volumes to the mindset of this administration that uses media theater almost constantly to manipulate what it sees as a simple-minded population.

[hatrack]

42. Exactly!

Abrupt climate change has indeed happened in the past, and probably will happen in the future. There are a number of studies that show substantial freshening in polar oceans, and increased saltiness in tropical seas, which is just what you'd expect as the conveyer weakens, as well as a report out last week showing rapidly decreasing movement in one of the North Atlantic gyres, where the recirculation process takes place (check Environment/Energy for the link).

There's plenty of scientific debate about just when, and just what kind of problems (from merely large to huge) this will pose for humanity. Further, thermohaline collapse could take place this year, or it could happen 100 years from now.

All of this aside, it's astonishing that this administration would react to a movie - a summer blockbuster disaster move, for Pete's sake - by trying to gag the agencies which study these kinds of phenomena. Frickin' ridiculous.

[rman]

33. So NASA has become a RW propaganda aparatus.

No wonder they are having trouble in the area of space exploration.

[krkaufman]

37. Go to the Woods Hole website for more info... LOTS more...

Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Abrupt Climate Change

http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/currenttopics/ct_abruptclimate.htm