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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 12:30 AM
Original message
Pentagon officials asked to explain Iraq armor difficulties
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=21815

Five of the Pentagon’s key acquisition officials were called to Capitol Hill on Wednesday to explain why armor to protect troops against IEDs has been so slow in getting to Iraq.

Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said he is concerned that the Pentagon’s defense acquisition system does not have “the ability to rapidly meet our soldiers’ needs” for force protection, especially protecting convoys against improvised explosive devices, or roadside bombs.

<snip>

Hunter noted that the number of fuel tanker trucks in Iraq “that have been destroyed now by attacks is between 80 and 100.”

<snip>

Steel panels to armor up to 60 gun trucks against improvised explosive devices are languishing on a loading dock in Pennsylvania, while troops in Iraq cobble together homemade plywood barriers in an effort to protect themselves, according to Hunter.

<snip>

But Hunter said he’s also worried that the Bush administration has not earmarked enough funds in its 2005 Pentagon budget request to Congress to fully meet the Army’s projected need for up-armored Humvees and add-on kits.



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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Unfortunately, this will only get worse, since the troop level is rising.
Can't these fools use a calculator? :grr:


But Pentagon leaders have not addressed the request, Hunter said, which means there are no funds and "no material requisition in the pipeline for the steel mills to continue to make armor plates" for the kits after April 30.

"Seven Army arsenals will stand down, with a break in production, when we already know there are emerging requirements coming from theater," Hunter said.



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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I guess the BushCo answer will be "Congress not on a war footing".
Along with the mantra - "Not my fault, not my fault"
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. They will blame it on Clinton, of course.
I heard a Republican on NPR last week blaming it all on Clinton, because the U.S. military was on a "cold war" footing, not a "post-9/11" footing, when Clinton handed it over to Fuhrer Bush.

The Republican didn't seem to notice that 9/11 hadn't happened yet when der fuhrer took over.

When in doubt, blame Clinton. What a sorry excuse for an administration.

What if Clinton had blamed things on the previous 12 years of Republican administrations? Oh, that's right. There wasn't much to blame, since things were going so well under Clinton! Doh!
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Bush has been there almost 3 1/2 years. Plenty of time to build up a well
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 05:28 PM by Mountainman
equiped army.

The question to be asked is, if Clinton gave Bush such a poorly equiped military, why hasn't he done anything about it yet?

The thing is that the Bush supporters probably don't make enough money off of armor. Let's build a missle defence. Now there we can make big bucks.
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cornfedyank Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. yes it is
i believe it is the 5 p's. Piss poor planning promotes poor performance. the voter has to realize: 1. the invasion if iraq was shrub et al's choice. it was optional. 2. a well thought through plan was not used.

enough B U _ _ S H _ _!!!
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Newsweek has an excellent article this week
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4825948 /

The inaugural mission of the 1st Cavalry's 2d Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment was, in its humble way, a bid for hearts and minds. It was to safely dispose of Iraqi sewage. Having arrived in Iraq in late March, a 19-man patrol from the battalion, traveling in four Humvees, had just finished escorting three Iraqi "honey wagons" on their rounds in the grim slum of Sadr City, where vendors stash eggs and chickens in bamboo crates next to puddles of viscous black mud. ("You're lucky if it's mud," joked one U.S. officer.) Suddenly the street became "a 300-meter-long kill zone," recalls platoon leader Sgt. Shane Aguero, courtesy of gunmen from the Mahdi militia of Shiite rebel Moqtada al-Sadr. The Humvees swerved and ran onto sidewalks, rolling on the rims of flat tires, as gunmen kept up the barrage of bullets. Sgt. Yihjyh (Eddie) Chen, gunner in the lead vehicle, was shot dead. Another soldier was hit and began bleeding from the mouth.

And their trouble was just beginning. Two of the Humvees became disabled. Aguero yelled at one driver to gun the engine to get his Humvee moving. The engine fell out. As they'd been drilled to do, the soldiers set out to strip the disabled vehicles of sensitive items and to "zee off the radio"—to see that codes and equipment don't fall into enemy hands. When another group got ambushed nearby, an enemy round came through the Humvee's right rear door—through retrofitted panels that the soldiers had been told would repel AK-47 rounds. Miraculously, none of the three people inside were hit. Then a third Humvee sputtered to a halt: debris had pierced the fuel tank. "It just wouldn't start; we coasted the last 50 yards out of the kill zone," said its driver, Spc. Dee Foster. At last an armored Bradley fighting vehicle arrived, and its steel ramp opened to scoop him and his buddies to safety.

For the Bush administration it has been a mantra, one the president intones repeatedly: America's troops will get whatever they need to do the job. But as Iraq's liberation has turned into a daily grind of low-intensity combat—and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld grudgingly raises troop levels—many soldiers who are there say the Pentagon is failing to protect them with the best technology America has to offer. Especially tanks, Bradleys and other heavy vehicles, even in some cases body armor. That has been the tragic lesson of April, a month in which a record 115 U.S. soldiers have died so far and 879 others have been wounded, 560 of them fairly seriously. Those numbers greatly exceed the tallies in the combat-heavy weeks of the invasion last spring. And the impact of those deaths was felt more fully last week when blogger Russ Kick, after filing a Freedom of Information Act request, won the release of photos showing coffins returning to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware.

Soldiers in Iraq complain that Washington has been too slow to acknowledge that the Iraqi insurgency consists of more than "dead-enders." And even at the Pentagon many officers say Rumsfeld and his brass have been too reluctant to modify their long-term plans for a lighter military. On the battlefield, that has translated into a lack of armor. Perhaps the most telling example: a year ago the Pentagon had more than 400 main battle tanks in Iraq; as of recently, a senior Defense official told NEWSWEEK, there was barely a brigade's worth of operational tanks still there. (A brigade usually has about 70 tanks.)

<snip>

one in four of those killed in combat in Iraq might be alive if they had had stronger armor around them, the study suggested. Thousands more who were unprotected have suffered grievous wounds, such as the loss of limbs.
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Woody Guthrie Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. In 2000
'Fuzzy Math' - Voters got what they asked for.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. They didn't think that any of this would be necessary
And it wouldn't have been if they simply stayed out of that place.

However, George WMD Bush wanted to go so they did.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. It took too long to address this issue...
which, as many others, has been known to us here for some time. Finally, it's getting some press, and Congressional attention.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kick n/t
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. you know, all of the halliburton boys appear to have new,...
Edited on Mon Apr-26-04 03:13 PM by jdolsen
...state of the art weapons and armor... seems like our underequiped boys and girls get the short end of the stick... and cheney/halliburton is the number one reason people are dying...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

On edit: I almost lost it for the thousandth time when I read that some troops heading over to the quagmire HAVE BEEN PURCHASING THEIR OWN ARMOR AND SUPPLIES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ADEQUATELY SUPLLIED!

WTF???

Sening US soldiers to a hostile environment with less-than-adequate weapons, supplies, armor, etc. IS TREASONOUS!
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Well, I'd expect mercenaries to have the best money can buy
1. They are probably paid 15-20 times what an activated reservist is paid. So they can afford the body armor, protected vehicles, etc.

2. They can only collect a paycheck if they are alive, and they intend to collect. So you can expect that in their contracts they negotiated the appropriate body armor, protected vehicles, etc.

Mercenaries aren't stupid. They are just willing to kill to make a living.

"Have gun. Will travel." It's a marketing strategy that still works. But instead of a gray horse and a black set of clothes that now means an armored hummer and body armor in addition to the gun.

If US soldiers, want to survive (and I suspect they do), then they will act similarly and buy the body armor, etc. to ensure that. The fact that the US armed services expects and exploits this sentiment, is just another example of the American administrative mentality of externalizing.

Nothing new here...move along folks.

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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Rumsferatu doesn't control Halliburton's budget.
What IS it with this guy's tunnel-vision focus on his pet theory of "Dirty Deeds Done CHEAP"? Hasn't he flashed on the fact that his stinginess is killing-off our soldiers? Doesn't he realize what that represents in lost investment on training?

I guess not. Dumb-fuck's only interested in doing things "on the hog" so Halliburton gets more money from the slush fund....
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. this is a disgrace...
:(
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Bush is a disgrace. He's the one who fucked up the logistics.
He fucked up everything.
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. Lots o' cash for an ABM system in Alaska, though!
Hope the military families caught that headline today...
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. I heard on the news that they may use old Veitnam era M-103's
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 05:23 PM by Mountainman
APC's are what we used in Vietnam and now they may be used in Iraq.

Tell me again why this isn't like Vietnam? I'm waiting for the body counts to start up soon.

"Today 1000 terrorists were killed with only 10 Americans lives lost." Is that a fair enough war for you?
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. taken to the cleaners by crooked defense contractors...again
travesty
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's simple. Liberators don't need armor.
They refuse to acknowledge that we're not liberators, ergo they don't supply what is needed. Simple.
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GoldenOldie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. The War President Sucks
Georgie hasn't suceeded in anything he has ever attempted only this time he is causing thousands of deaths. Does anyone really think they Georgie, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc., etc., give a damn about they safety of our men and women. They are war profiteers and the almighty dollar is their God.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. "Um, these ones were more profitable
for the contractors that made them. Any other questions?"
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. $450,000,000,000 a year.
And the acquisition system is inadequate?

Criminal.
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