NYT,Iraq Attack:Many Versions,Obscure Truth (press coverage)

[DeepModem Mom]

Attack in Iraq: Many Versions, Obscure Truth

By IAN FISHER

Published: April 26, 2004


BAGHDAD, Iraq, April 25 — A roadside bomb killed a young American soldier on Sunday morning inside this city, the kind of attack so common in this war that it no longer makes headlines.

After he was evacuated, his Humvee was set on fire. Children rushed out of school to celebrate the attack — a reaction that until the most recent spike of rage and violence here was almost unheard of inside the capital. American soldiers began shooting at rooftop snipers. At least one Iraqi, a teenager whose name was given by neighbors as Hassan Fallah, was killed in the cross-fire.

Those details, at least, seem certain enough....But determining the truth of what happened in incidents like this one is becoming increasingly difficult. Reality, at this pivotal moment for the Americans in Iraq, is a kaleidoscope of versions....

(There are conflicting reports as to the number of children killed, and whether "gunmen" fired at the soldiers from rooftops.)

***

In recent weeks, it has become harder for Western reporters to sift through conflicting accounts of incidents like this one. They venture outside only briefly. Many are afraid, mostly ensconced in hotels and houses protected by huge concrete blast walls, because of the recent wave of kidnappings and killings of foreigners. (And this reporter, who arrived at the attack scene about six hours afterward, stayed only about 45 minutes — far less than he might have several months ago.)...


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/international/middleeast/26ATTA.html

[oblivious]

1. How'd you like to try to figure that out?

I sure gotta give Mr Fisher credit for trying though. Not the most desirable job in the world.

[leftchick]

2. who said this is not like Vietnam?

It is IRAQ-NAM!! I would believe the witness accounts over the sanitized official US military version any day.

[saigon68]

3. Nice Journalists

They report the swill from the Five O'Clock Follies


Disgusting

[NewYorkerfromMass]

5. It's encouraging though that the Times is onto the truth here

The New York Times is turning it around on Bush. They definitely want him the fuck out.

[saigon68]

16. I agree and its about time

He's really got to go.

[teryang]

4. Why not investigate?

Ask the doctors at the hospital to retrieve the bullets from the dead. It may not be dispositive but it could rule out who shot whom. They never bother with this. They don't want to know. It is better not knowing.

I disagree with this reporter, the young men and children have been celebrating the destruction of every American vehicle since the beginning of this conflict. It is a common scene after an attack.

[jmcgowanjm]

6. Drs in Fallujah say US using dumdum bullets

One of the conditions of Marines
is that AlJazeera leave Fallujah.

Akhbar al-Khalij also reported that the US aggressor
forces, under direct orders from US President Bush,
recently tried to carry out a plan code named “The Last
Strike” that involved sending thousands of Marine
troops, commandos, and tanks to storm al-Fallujah from
the west. The plan failed miserably, however, when
Iraqi Resistance forces ambushed infiltrating US troops. A
force of 2,500 American aggressors coming in from the
west found themselves surrounded by Resistance gunfire
that left dozens of them dead and compelled them to
retreat.

[hang a left]

7. What are dumdum bullets?

[JohnyCanuck]

8. Bullets that intentionally are made to mushroom

and expand in cross sectional area on impact with a human body and thereby cause much more damage to body organs, tissue, bone etc. when compared to a standard bullet that more or less stays closer to a traditional bullet shape as it penetrates human flesh. Dumdum bullets are outlawed for use by armies by the Geneva Conventions.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. Hollow point

same thing.

[hang a left]

11. Thanks JC.

[DavidMS]

12. I doubt it...

I suspect doctors are seeing the use of bullets that fragment (permissible under the St. Petersburg Convention, Hauge Conventions, and Geneva Convention).

Here is some information on the "Dum Dum"

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/303hist.html

Here is a picture of the Mark VII which was designed to fragment on impact. http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/thegreatwar/articles/weapons/303cartridge.htm

I suspect that mushrooming is being confused with fragmentation. Unless , of cource ShrubCo wants every civilised nation to be severely anoyed with us (which I doubt).

The only other option is that mushrooming projectiles are being used and they will claim that the Hauge Convention of 1899 does not apply becasue the insurgents have not attempted to or claimed to follow it or have otherwise placedthemselves outside of its protections.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/dec99-03.htm

[bloom]

13. "ShrubCo wants every civilised nation..."

...to be severely anoyed with us"


I don't know how they could be otherwise. As far as I'm concerned the US has returned to pre-civilized behavior.

[hang a left]

10. Is there a link for this. Is there any proof that they are using

these bullets, now that I know what they are?

[JohnyCanuck]

14. This is all I found so far

Norwegian multi-purpose ammunition which is intended for use against military equipment is being used against personnel in both Iraq and Afghanistan, a spokesman for the American military has confirmed to Nationen . A spokesman for the American military confirms that the USA has used this type of ammunition against soldiers and equipment in Iraq and Afghanistan, Nationen writes. The use of 12.7-millimetre multi-purpose ammunition against soldiers is controversial. The shells were developed to stop Soviet armoured vehicles and tests have shown that they explode inside the human body. They therefore have the same effect as so-called dumdum bullets.

Stop requested

The Red Cross believes the ammunition may contravene international law and has requested that production be stopped. "The Norwegian authorities always refer to tests which show that 12.7-millimetre multi-purpose ammunition does not explode, but they should be able to prove that it does not explode in the human body," says Magne Barth of the Red Cross' international humanitarian law section. "If the ammunition explodes and the person who fires or who gives orders to fire knows this and the target is personnel then this is in breach of international law as applied to war," Barth tells Nationen.


Foreign Ministry approval


The American military bought at least 70m kroner worth of this ammunition in 1997, 1998, 2001 and 2002 with Foreign Ministry approval. The shells have principally been produced by Nammo, formerly Raufoss ammunisjonsfabrikk, in which the state has a 45 per cent shareholding.

http://tides.carebridge.org/TIRR/TIRR094.htm#_Controversial_Norwegian_ammunition_

And it looks like Blackwater might have at least tested on Iraqi insurgents ammunition that might be construed as not in accordance with the regulations of the Geneva Conventions. Of course Blackwater not being an army of any state presumably is not bound by the Geneva Conventions. See this article:

More on bullets for hire or how to kill with a bullet to the buttock from Blackwater

During a mid-September firefight north of Baghdad, Ben Thomas recorded the first known kill of an adversary with a relatively new type of ammunition. The former Navy SEAL, now a security consultant with a private corporation contracted by the U.S. government, was traveling with three colleagues when they were ambushed by an estimated eight to 12 “bad guys.”

What Thomas says about that single bullet’s performance should have Pentagon officials scrambling to test the ammo. But they’re not. In fact, when word of the engagement reached an influential member of the military’s weapons-testing community, he mistakenly surmised that Thomas was an active-duty serviceman and, via an e-mail exchange, threatened Thomas with court-martial for using unapproved ammunition, the former SEAL told AFJ.

During a telephone interview last month, Thomas said the bullet he fired struck one of the attackers in the upper left quadrant of the buttocks, killing him immediately. Under most circumstances, a 5.56mm bullet striking a person’s buttocks wouldn’t be expected to create a fatal wound. The shot was made at a distance of about 110 meters, Thomas said, using a standard M4 carbine with a 14.5-inch barrel.

I’ll spare the details, but when Thomas and his colleagues later examined the body they couldn’t believe the destructive effects caused by that 5.56mm round. Thomas said he has shot people with various types of 5.56 ammo used by special operators — regular Green Tip, Black Hills Mk 262 and tracer — but has never seen any wound from a 5.56mm round that evidenced the destructive energy released by that bullet.

http://www.wnyc.org/discuss/soapbox.html?message_id=35450

[NickB79]

15. 5.56mm rounds do fragment pretty well even as FMJ's

Just because a bullet is full metal jacket doesn't mean it can't fragment. A standard 5.56mm bullet has a cannalure pressed around the bullet mid-shaft. This depression is a ring around the bullet is where the brass case grips into the bullet to hold it more securely. The process of applying the cannalure to a bullet stresses the copper jacket and weakens it at this point. When the bullet hits, it starts to tumble end over end inside the person and snaps at that stress point. The two halves further fragment into dozens of smaller pieces. The catch is that the bullet fragmenting is highly dependant on velocity. Past 125-150 yds, most 5.56mm loads have lost too much velocity to significantly fragment, but since fighting is at close range in much of Iraq, this probably isn't an issue. This fragmenting is allowed under Geneva since technically the bullet is still an FMJ, as far as most governments are concerned. As far as I know, only the Swiss produce and use a 5.56mm bullet that uses an extra-thick jacket to prevent bullet fragmenting at the cannalure.

Actually, the US special forces have been field-testing hollowpoint bullets in Afghanistan without much uproar from the worldwide community for over a year. 75 and 77 gr boattail match hollowpoints loaded by Black Hills Ammunition have been used to great effect on Afghan fighters because of the greater weight and better fragmenting of the bullets at longer range compared to 55 and 62 gr rounds currently used.