AP: Fighting in Holy City of Najaf Kills 43

[gp]

Middle East - AP
Fighting in Holy City of Najaf Kills 43
By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. troops backed by helicopter gunships battled with insurgents overnight near the southern holy Shiite city of Najaf, killing 43 gunmen and destroying an anti-aircraft system belonging to the insurgents, the U.S. military in Baghdad said Tuesday.


The fighting began Monday night and lasted several hours, a military spokesman said. It came as around 200 U.S. forces made their first deployment inside Najaf, moving into a base that Spanish troops are vacating about three miles from holy shrines near where an anti-American Shiite Muslim cleric is holed up.

Night footage taken by the Associated Press Television News, from a road between Najaf and the nearby town of Kufa, showed U.S. army helicopters flying low over plumes of smoke rising from a green area and the sparks of flashes, likely from gunfire

More
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040427/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

[markses]

1. Where the Eff did they come up with THAT number?

So much bullshit. Yes, we killed 43 gunmen - it's so much more believable than 10, 40, 45, or 80, and so much more paliable than 28 civilians and 15 militia members! From the description of the fighting, the number seems bizarre and improbable, yet it is reported with a bit of "the US military said," swagger. Five O'clock Follies and the Rhetoric of the Body Count: the quantitative mania makes the war seem like a stock report, with all the blood and horror resting in the invisible world of production. Hey Kimmett, can you give us the plain EBITDA numbers? :eyes:

[Kremer]

2. Wow, that was a holy thing to do! I'm sure the violence will stop now!

[izzie]

3. And they could not find the bodies, right?

This seems to me to be one silly move. Is this the one Bush put in his 2 cents on? Tactic is not my thing but it seem to me when you are 130,000 in the middle of about 100 million people who do not like you that this is one silly move.

[Disturbed]

5. Najav

This is not a small town. It's a city of 500K people. If this attack continues the entire Shi'ite community of Iraq will prolly join the uprising. This US move is beyond dumb; it is pure stupidity.

[ze_dscherman]

6. More than just Iraq

There's 120 millions Shi'ites, most in Iraq and Iran, but many in other places like Saudi Arabia, Syria and Lebanon.

[saigon68]

7. ITS IRAQ-NAM ALL RIGHT !!!!!!

And here's the Sleazy MOUTH PIECES OF THE FIVE O'CLOCK FOLLIES



"Senor" Sleeze Senor mouth piece for the Viceroy Pontius Paul Bremer I

His quote, “We must “cleanse “ this country of the divisive elements” !



KRAZY KILLER KIMMITT enforcer for the Viceroy Pontius Bremer I

His quote " if you don’t like watching women and children die, change the channel."

[dbt]

4. US just took the bait.

There's no way that "we" look like anything but Crusaders now. There's no spin that the Muslim world will come close to buying. We have just now removed all doubt that Americans are Infidels. The little Hitler has just turned us all into the Great Satan.

:freak:
dbt

[BeHereNow]

10. Absolutely correct , my dear!

And the most disgusting part of that truth?
BUSHCO DOES NOT CARE.
About our troops or domestic security.
They knew FULLY well where this would lead.
BHN

[Just Me]

19. Sadly, I agree that we are earning the appearance of a "Great Satan".

I hope more of the American people shake lose from their brainwashed nationalistic fervour and take a good look at what is happening in our name. Neo-fascism is evolving and may be planting its claws so deeply in this country that,...*sigh*,...people won't know what's hit them until it's too late. If regime change fails to happen in November, we can kiss the experiment of democracy "good-bye".

:cry:

[Judi Lynn]

8. Reuters article to add to your thread.

Tension mounts in Iraq's bloody flashpoints
Tue 27 April, 2004 09:51



By Khaled Farhan

NAJAF, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. forces have killed dozens of Iraqi Shi'ite fighters near Najaf overnight, just hours after Washington issued an ultimatum to a radical cleric to clear his militia and their weapons out of mosques in the holy city.

The bloodiest clashes since Moqtada al-Sadr and his Mehdi Army militia launched a brief revolt against the U.S.-led occupation three weeks ago may mark a new phase in American efforts to dislodge him from Najaf where he has taken refuge among some of the holiest shrines of Shi'ite Islam.

Forty-three anti-American militiamen were killed, a U.S. military spokeswoman said on Tuesday, adding that U.S. forces had brought in an AC-130 gunship, a modified cargo plane that can spew cannon and machinegun fire across wide areas.

Local people said aircraft destroyed a militia checkpoint outside Kufa, 10 km (six miles) from Najaf, after U.S. troops clashed with Sadr's men. Staff at a nearby hospital said they saw the bodies of at least six people and treated 22 wounded. Some of the casualties did not appear to be guerrillas.
(snip/...)

~~~~ link ~~~~

[progressivebydesign]

14. We'll we know the truth? Sentences like this make me wonder.....

"Forty-three anti-American militiamen were killed, a U.S. military spokeswoman said "

Maybe they weren't exactly "anti-American", but rather "anti-getting-your-house-your-place-of-worship-and-your-children-blown-to-bits-civilians". That's just my guess.

[Joanne98]

30. I noticed that too. I hope calling people you kill anti-American isn't

the beginning of a trend

[ze_dscherman]

20. Al-Jazeera reported most of the dead were civilians

... and that they would not air footage because it would be to brutal to watch. This was reported this morning (UTC+2 time) and was *not* repeated in most western media.

I found the info at this German newssite: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,297215,00.html

[Just Me]

28. Al-Jazeera not airing footage because it's too brutal,...

,...yikes!!! They are usually willing to air at least some of the real life happenings. That makes me wonder? Makes me worry!

[MaineDem]

9. 43 "insurgents"; how many civilians?

And exactly 43? Hmmmm

What differentiates an insurgent and a thug or a freedom fighter and a rebel? Who decides what word to use on any given day? Kimmet? Senor? Bush?

[maddezmom]

11. Fighting in Holy City of Najaf Kills 64

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - U.S. troops fought gunbattles with militiamen overnight near the southern holy Shiite city of Najaf, killing 64 gunmen and destroying an anti-aircraft system belonging to the insurgents, the U.S. military said Tuesday.

It was one of the heaviest fights with the militia, as U.S. troops are trying to carefully hike up the pressure on the gunmen loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. U.S. troops moved into a base in Najaf, but promised to stay away from the sensitive Shiite holy sites at the city's heart.

Meanwhile, as the United Nations prepared to discuss the formation of a caretaker government due to take power on June 30, U.S.-appointed Iraqi leaders complained that the administration will not have real sovereignty as promised by American administrators for months.

``I think the sovereignty will be weak and not complete,'' said Mahmoud Othman, a member of the Governing Council. For ``the security situation, there will still be the United States.''

He also expressed worries the caretaker will be limited in what laws it can pass. If the government can't make laws or provide security ``it will not be real sovereignty,'' he said. ``The less sovereignty there is, the less the possibility that the government will be able to work and achieve its tasks.''

~snip~
more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4026288,00.html

[reprobate]

12. Daily enemy body counts, and hiding the number of US casualties.

Remind you of anything?

[htuttle]

13. Don't worry -- the US is 'winning every battle'

I'm sure that the whiz kids at the Pentagon can 'see the light at the end of the tunnel' by now...

[bobthedrummer]

15. The RW fruitcake element never got over our defeat in Viet Nam despite

winning every battle. Now it's a Crusade for them:grr::argh::puke:

[Hand]

16. Oh, yes indeed...

I've heard the occasional rumbling about "kill ratios" as well. The next milestone will come when exact US casualties are no longer enumerated, but characterized as "light", "moderate", or "heavy".

One of the appalling statistics that came out recently is that the US Marine battalion that made the initial attack on Falluja has suffered 30% casualties (dead and wounded). Those are serious losses, enough to justify pulling them out to rest and regroup, and enough to hurt the morale of the men still standing. And this nasty battle's just getting started. Hate to think of what's ahead...

[Dhalgren]

17. Wow! A 30% casualty rate (dead and wounded) is huge!

That has not been reported to the US. Oh well, no one cares anyway. Is that American Idol on the TEE VEE?

[hang a left]

21. Do you have a link to those stats?

Thanks in advance. :hi:

[Hand]

29. Don't have a link right here...

I'm pretty sure that it was in the Washington Post a few days ago; they had a reporter embedded with the Marines who brought out some powerful material. He did mention that one company of 165 men had suffered 50 casualties in just a few days during the early fighting.

The other statistic is from some time last week, I believe in a piece on the unstable ceasefire. That's about all I can come up with after looking through the recent Web postings.

[hang a left]

34. Thanks Hand.

I thought you ditched me.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

33. Quite a few people were saying this before the war (including me)

One of the appalling statistics that came out recently is that the US Marine battalion that made the initial attack on Falluja has suffered 30% casualties (dead and wounded).

Sorry to say, but that is not appalling, that is NORMAL! For example:

COL. RANDY GANGLE, U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.): Don't expect one of these nice, clean wars that we had in Desert Storm, where, you know, hardly anybody even got hurt or even had to change their socks, for that matter. The casualty rate on the urban battlefield is about 30 percent. So, in other words, if you have an infantry battalion of a thousand men, you can expect about 300 of them to be either dead or wounded after the first day of fighting.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june03/warfare_3-3.html

This was posted March 3rd 2003 - before the war. This is a well known FACT, and the military knows it - why do you think they spent so much money and effort trying to get the Iraqy army to defect rather than defend Baghdad? They KNEW what would happen and they tried to avoid it - now they can't.

[Jacobin]

22. Wait, wait, it'll come to me...............

seems like it was in the 60's and 70's..........some kinda conflict.......

I remember vividly the nightly news and the body counts .....idiotic and bloody awful and of course completely unsuccessful.

Amazing that we are doing the exact same fricking thing allllll over again

[dArKeR]

18. Dozens die as US planes strafe Najaf - IOL

By Khaled Farhan

Najaf - United States forces killed dozens of Iraqi fighters near Najaf overnight, hours after the American government issued an ultimatum to a radical cleric to clear his militia from mosques in the holy city.

Television in Najaf said wounded people were dying for lack of blood supplies and issued an urgent appeal for donors.

The clashes were the deadliest since Moqtada al-Sadr and his Mehdi Army militia launched a brief revolt against the occupying force three weeks ago. They may mark a new phase in American efforts to dislodge him from Najaf, where he has taken refuge among some of the holiest shrines of Shi'ite Islam.

http://iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw1083067920181B262&set_id=1

[Just Me]

23. So much loss,...is weighing so heavy on my soul.

These poor people.

Oh, Iraq,...I am so sorry for what this wicked administration is doing.

I am so sorry.

So sorry,...

:cry:

[Yavin4]

24. Now, We're Doing to Iraqis, What

Saddam did to the Iraqis.

[Streetdoc270]

31. Yes but now they have Freedom....

Is that not the line we are told to beleive when you ask 'Why'

[Yavin4]

32. Yeah, The Freedom to Die

If we're killing Iraqis, how are we different from what Saddam did?

[daleo]

25. How many mass graves will it take before this is over

Bush is rapidly overtaking Saddam in the mass grave competition.

[catmandu57]

26. The headline now reads "Heavy losses"

I just got back and on Yahoo's frontpage the headline was heavy losses, same story, but the numbers were deleted. Not a whisper of US casualties, I guess the Iraqis can't shoot.
We'll be paying for this for a long, long time.

[maddezmom]

27. The bulk of the dead were militiamen loyal to Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr..

a military spokesman reported Tuesday."

"After nightfall, U.S. warplanes attacked an anti-aircraft emplacement in the area, Kimmitt said, killing an estimated 57 of Sadr's Mahdi militiamen surrounding it."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46162-2004Apr27.html

So how many civilians? My calculation would be 7.... :(